Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
 
newone88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quick question regarding this issue (I might purchase this set soon),
Do you see the clouds and uneven lights when you are watching the TV (SD, HD, movie, game, PC) or just when there is no source?
If you see it only when no source is present, dose it have any effect on the set itself since no one will be just watching a black screen with no source for more than 2 seconds.
newone88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 08:57 AM
Senior Member
 
tostitobandito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
All LCD's have non-uniform backlighting to some degree. It's just a question of how large the brightness difference is and whether it is noticable to the human eye. My 46XBR2 for example, is very slightly brighter in a couple of the corners but this is only visible (barely) with no input, the lights out, and brightness and backlight cranked. At normal settings, even in the dark, it is not visible. I don't consider this a defect in my case. In the case of someone who had more severe backlighting issues, it might be different. My point is, a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about what this technology is capable of. Lumping all backlight uniformity issues together is ridiculous, since it is present everywhere and the more minor issues are expected and are NOT defects.
tostitobandito is offline  
post #33 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare1 View Post

I would love to see some shots of a TV without this issue as a comparison.

Excellent idea! Can someone who has a good panel post some pics?
swizzir is offline  
post #34 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:05 AM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tostitobandito View Post

All LCD's have non-uniform backlighting to some degree. It's just a question of how large the brightness difference is and whether it is noticable to the human eye. My 46XBR2 for example, is very slightly brighter in a couple of the corners but this is only visible (barely) with no input, the lights out, and brightness and backlight cranked. At normal settings, even in the dark, it is not visible. I don't consider this a defect in my case. In the case of someone who had more severe backlighting issues, it might be different. My point is, a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about what this technology is capable of. Lumping all backlight uniformity issues together is ridiculous, since it is present everywhere and the more minor issues are expected and are NOT defects.

While it's debatable as to wether of not your claim is true (I have never seen backlight problems with an LCD prior to my 46XBR2 purchase) I don't think the severity to which our problem panels are having with the backlight could be considered normal. Have you looked at the pictures forum members are posting? If not, look at mine. Would you consider mine defective based on the pictures? Could you live with a panel like that? I'm not attacking your claim I'm just generally curious about what other XBR2 owners would/could tolerate.
swizzir is offline  
post #35 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:08 AM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by newone88 View Post

Do you see the clouds and uneven lights when you are watching the TV (SD, HD, movie, game, PC) or just when there is no source?
If you see it only when no source is present, dose it have any effect on the set itself since no one will be just watching a black screen with no source for more than 2 seconds.

Yes, the lighter areas can be seen during TV shows and movies. It's, of course, most noticeable during dark scenes, commercial transitions, letter box programming, etc.
swizzir is offline  
post #36 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:12 AM
Senior Member
 
tostitobandito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

While it's debatable as to wether of not your claim is true (I have never seen backlight problems with an LCD prior to my 46XBR2 purchase) I don't think the severity to which our problem panels are having with the backlight could be considered normal. Have you looked at the pictures forum members are posting? If not, look at mine. Would you consider mine defective based on the pictures? Could you live with a panel like that? I'm not attacking your claim I'm just generally curious about what other XBR2 owners would/could tolerate.

I never said that some people didn't have defective sets, and yes sets like the one pictured in this thread could be considered defective. My point was that some of the people who crank all their settings up and go "OMG it's cloudy!" clearly have very minor issues that aren't noticable under normal circumstances. And it's not debatable at all that LCD backlights aren't perfectly uniform. Find professional reviews where they have done a backlight or brightness uniformity test and you can see that no panel is perfect. Like I said earlier though, a lot of this isn't visible to the human eye and settings have to be cranked up to non-practical levels to see it on normal sets. On defective sets it will be clearly visible at normal viewing settings, and it is obvious that the uniformity on those is outside the allowable limits.
tostitobandito is offline  
post #37 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 10:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sfhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

While it's debatable as to wether of not your claim is true (I have never seen backlight problems with an LCD prior to my 46XBR2 purchase) I don't think the severity to which our problem panels are having with the backlight could be considered normal. Have you looked at the pictures forum members are posting? If not, look at mine. Would you consider mine defective based on the pictures? Could you live with a panel like that? I'm not attacking your claim I'm just generally curious about what other XBR2 owners would/could tolerate.

I'd have to see it for myself to be sure, but from the pictures posted it does seem to be abnormal uneven backlight.

It is true all LCDs have some uneven backlight, but in many cases it is very hard to see and in quite a few cases can only be detected with test equipment on uniform background. Most people would consider those cases normal and acceptable.

What is being described in this thread seems abnormal and probably unacceptable for many, but I'd have to see it for myself to get a better feel for how it looks in person. The pictures do look abnormal though.
sfhub is offline  
post #38 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 10:20 AM
Member
 
Mainegod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I understand this thread is devoted to the Sony 46" XBR LCD--but does that mean the 40" version is unaffected or no one has started a thread about it?
Mainegod is offline  
post #39 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 10:28 AM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainegod View Post

I understand this thread is devoted to the Sony 46" XBR LCD--but does that mean the 40" version is unaffected or no one has started a thread about it?

To my knowledge we have not had anyone report an excessive amount of poor brightness uniformity with the 40XBR2. There may be a little but nothing anyone has considered a defect.
swizzir is offline  
post #40 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
miniz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Both of my sets were very noticable while watching TV. It stood out like a white wash. When there was a dark scene it looked like daytime on certain parts of the screen.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
miniz is offline  
post #41 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 01:08 PM
Member
 
Mainegod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

To my knowledge we have not had anyone report an excessive amount of poor brightness uniformity with the 40XBR2. There may be a little but nothing anyone has considered a defect.


Are the sets made in different factories or with different components? thanks for the info though.
Mainegod is offline  
post #42 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
miniz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
good question! Or is just the fact that once you get over 40", LCD screens are very hard to make?

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
miniz is offline  
post #43 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 02:15 PM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There's a little talk of the same issue with the Samsung LN-S4695D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8822461

I would expect this since Samsung makes the panels and I would guess that the S4695D uses the exact same panel and the 46XBR2/3.
swizzir is offline  
post #44 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
miniz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, I do believe that both panels are affected because they are made by the same company in the same location.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
miniz is offline  
post #45 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 03:46 PM
Member
 
GVLBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No uneven backlight problems. August 2006 build date. Manufactured in Mexico.

46XBR2
GVLBob is offline  
post #46 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 04:07 PM
Member
 
sauron256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got a cloudy one too. Mine was built in Oct 2006. Good to see that there are some that don't have this issue.

I first noticed this when watching during the day time - Stargate SG-1 DVD. I was thinking that what I saw was just some sunlight hitting my panel causing the lighter areas on the screen. As it turns out, it was a cloudy afternoon. Uhggg!!! This is really quite unacceptable for how expensive this set is priced at.

It's going back this weekend! Hopefully, I can find a set made in August to replace it with.
sauron256 is offline  
post #47 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
miniz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Let us know how you do. I'm getting my 3rd replacement XBR2 tomorrow! They always say 3rd ones a charm! I hope it is.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
miniz is offline  
post #48 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:32 PM
Newbie
 
raymondj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is the pic of my cloudy 46XBR2 made in Oct. 2006. The cloudiness is also noticeable in watching programs with dark scenes. I'll probably return it instead of exchange it since this problem on the newer batch seems to be widespread.
raymondj is offline  
post #49 of 9118 Old 11-13-2006, 09:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
leftheaded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 524
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
sorry, this isn't about an XBR, but i have the 46" V2500 (costco version actually) and mine looks nearly identical to the pics posted on page 1. i didn't vote tho

mine was built August 2006 fwiw
leftheaded is offline  
post #50 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 08:12 AM
Member
 
Rare1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Now I cant stop looking at the clouds. It is kind of driving me insane.

Can someone please post a pic of a uniform screen?
Rare1 is offline  
post #51 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 11:53 AM
Member
 
ArtVandelae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I bought a V2500 yesterday (manufactured in September) and almost immediately noticed the cloudy appearance. I went to some stores during lunch this afternoon and flipped all the 40"+ Sony and Samung sets to a blank input and ALL had this problem. I realize that no set is perfect but this isn't some minor issue that only appears when you look for it 2 inches from the screen. I'm boxing it up and taking it back tonight which is too bad as I otherwise really liked it. *Sigh* maybe next year...
ArtVandelae is offline  
post #52 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 12:14 PM
Senior Member
 
seattlite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So what does the uneven backlighting cause when displaying images(SD, HD, PC, Console Games) on the screen? I'm about to purchase, thus the question.
seattlite is offline  
post #53 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 12:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare1 View Post

Now I cant stop looking at the clouds. It is kind of driving me insane.

Can someone please post a pic of a uniform screen?

It is interesting how performance attributes of a product change over time. Uneven backlighting on LCDs is commonplace. This is because in the past it has been very low on the list of problems to solve for manufacturers. Rightly so since it was very low on the list of customer complaints. Motion video, response time and viewing angle were the key driving CTQC (critical to quality characteristics). I think with current LCD standards so much improved, the backlight uniformity issue will become a basic attribute (expected) from a customer point of view.

Cheers

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
xrox is offline  
post #54 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 12:25 PM
Member
 
ArtVandelae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

So what does the uneven backlighting cause when displaying images(SD, HD, PC, Console Games) on the screen? I'm about to purchase, thus the question.

Basically dark areas of the picture could have cloudy looking splotches of gray in them.
ArtVandelae is offline  
post #55 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 01:07 PM
Member
 
Rare1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

So what does the uneven backlighting cause when displaying images(SD, HD, PC, Console Games) on the screen? I'm about to purchase, thus the question.

Most of the time it looks great, unless it is a really dark scene.

It should only bother anal people like me (and many others here)
Rare1 is offline  
post #56 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 01:09 PM
Member
 
Rare1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

It is interesting how performance attributes of a product change over time. Uneven backlighting on LCDs is commonplace. This is because in the past it has been very low on the list of problems to solve for manufacturers. Rightly so since it was very low on the list of customer complaints. Motion video, response time and viewing angle were the key driving CTQC (critical to quality characteristics). I think with current LCD standards so much improved, the backlight uniformity issue will become a basic attribute (expected) from a customer point of view.

Cheers

This is very true....it is the only thing left I have to complain about, but it was very noticeable from switching from the grand wega.
Rare1 is offline  
post #57 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 01:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Cyber Chulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I had 2 XBR2 sets. One in my home and had BB open one in the store. Both were from the Sept. 2006 build. Both had cloudy issues. Before the XBR2, I had the Sharp 46 62 series with the banding issues. I've finally pushed myself to get the Samsung 4696D and couldn't be happier. I also had no other choice as the employee told me that I was about to get red flagged for returning so many sets. Trust me, there's nothing worse, then watching a movie and when the set goes black, you see the clouds. IT'S FRIGGIN ANNOYING! Return it and wait or return it and get another brand. I sacrificed the 1:1 pixel mapping with the Sharp and XBR2 for the Samsung, but when I get my PS3 this Friday, that will be a non-issue. Good luck fellas.

PSN ID Cyber125
Cyber Chulo is offline  
post #58 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 01:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
tmeader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tostitobandito View Post

All LCD's have non-uniform backlighting to some degree. It's just a question of how large the brightness difference is and whether it is noticable to the human eye. My 46XBR2 for example, is very slightly brighter in a couple of the corners but this is only visible (barely) with no input, the lights out, and brightness and backlight cranked. At normal settings, even in the dark, it is not visible. I don't consider this a defect in my case. In the case of someone who had more severe backlighting issues, it might be different. My point is, a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about what this technology is capable of. Lumping all backlight uniformity issues together is ridiculous, since it is present everywhere and the more minor issues are expected and are NOT defects.

I really wish people would stop with this BS, because unless they've seen it firsthand, they just don't know what they're talking about. The cloudy/splotchy backlighting that is seen with these panels (I've returned THREE Samsung 5296Ds due to this issue) is NOT acceptable, and is not something that is just "normal for all LCDs". I've used at least 6 different LCD panels on computers, going back a good 10 years now, and though they've all had uneven backlighting to one degree or another, they have never had the odd cloud-like splotches that these Samsung/Sony panels are displaying.

In addition, my replacement Sharp 52d62u that I just got yesterday exhibits none of this splotchy backlight problem that all three Samsung panels had (ranging in build date from late September to mid October). Unfortunately my Sharp does have the banding issue that that set is now infamous for, but at least Sharp has acknowledged the problem, and is dedicated to fixing it. In my numerous calls to Samsung, I got NOWHERE with this issue. In fact, when sent the photo below, they said that this amount of "bleeding" (which this certainly is not anyway) was within acceptable limits.



As an aside, the Sharp also has NOTICEABLY better shadow detail than the Samsung panel ever did (both calibrated using Avia in the lighting conditions of the photo above).
tmeader is offline  
post #59 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 02:50 PM
Newbie
 
raymondj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just got a reply email from Sony support about my complaint on the uneven backlight. He did not answer any of my questions but "happily" pointed me to Sony's standard troublshooting instructions which of course have no mention about the uneven backlight. So they think we are fools.
raymondj is offline  
post #60 of 9118 Old 11-14-2006, 03:16 PM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone been able to talk to someone at Sony customer support that is not a front line script reading tech? Maybe someone in management? Does anyone know how to go about that? If it's possible I will make as many calls as necessary. I want an official statement from someone that matters at Sony saying if the uneven backlight issues we're having are within normal specifications. If so, my 46XBR2 is going back and I will not get another. If the problem is abnormal I'd like it fixed. Simple.
swizzir is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Sony Bravia S Series Kdl 40s2010 40 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia W Series Kdl 46w5100 46 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 52xbr4 52 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv
Gear in this thread - 52xbr4 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off