Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #721 of 9118 Old 12-04-2006, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

I don't want to burst your bubble, loz, but it'll come back. At least it did for me. Your after picture is still unacceptable in my opinion. I went through the same process of laying it down flat and while I saw an initial improvement, the clouding came back after less than 24 hours.

Whether it's an improvement or not is subjective and this type of process shouldn't be something that's associated with a high end tv like this that carries a high end sticker price with it. It's clear from the article that was posted earlier by Sauron that QA at Sony has gone to hell in a handbasket with these sets and is trying to put some sort of positive spin on it with a story like that. Bullocks, I say. I for one am not going to shut up until my unit gets replaced by a set that resembles the amount of cash I shelled out for it.

For the record, my clouding is not nearly as bad as yours, but is still unacceptable. You shouldn't be satisfied either.

My set looks like yours with a little less clouding in the upper left. I wonder what kind of camera are you using, because mine couldn't pick that up. Yes, mine is unacceptable as well. Tomorrow's Tuesday, and my tech comes out on Thursday. I hope it turns out well, and they take my problem seriously, knock on wood.
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post #722 of 9118 Old 12-04-2006, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loz View Post

Here's the before and after pictures of my TV after I applied Kontai69's "Destressing technique". I did not unscrew anything - I just let the TV stand face down on the box overnight. As I said before, if you're going to try this, do it at your own risk.

Note that if you are looking at the pictures on a CRT monitor (not LCD), you may not be able to tell a difference since I've seen CRTs that have a real problem with brigthness settings.

Your set looks better, but it's still affected. I would return that thing if you can asap. I wish I did when I had the chance. Now, I have to go through Sony.
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post #723 of 9118 Old 12-04-2006, 10:28 PM
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I found a CC that still had a July built 46 XBR2 and convinced the manager to exchange my October set with the display model.

Wow! What a difference! The July set has some very faint clouding on one corner, but compared to my other three sets, this one is the best I've seen. Now I can barely even see it unless I really strain my eyes to see it in a completely dark room. I could see the clouds on my old set even in a fully lit room.

It's not a perfect solution but it's good enough for me.

I've lost any faith in Sony ever coming clean with officially admitting that this is a problem considering how expensive it will be for them to do a recall of all the panels that are defective.

Finding that article on how Sony has pretty much left panel QC to Samsung pretty much put the final nail in the Sony coffin for me. I'll likely never buy a Sony product again.
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post #724 of 9118 Old 12-04-2006, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauron256 View Post

I found a CC that still had a July built 46 XBR2 and convinced the manager to exchange my October set with the display model.

Wow! What a difference! The July set has some very faint clouding on one corner, but compared to my other three sets, this one is the best I've seen. Now I can barely even see it unless I really strain my eyes to see it in a completely dark room. I could see the clouds on my old set even in a fully lit room.

It's not a perfect solution but it's good enough for me.

I've lost any faith in Sony ever coming clean with officially admitting that this is a problem considering how expensive it will be for them to do a recall of all the panels that are defective.

Finding that article on how Sony has pretty much left panel QC to Samsung pretty much put the final nail in the Sony coffin for me. I'll likely never buy a Sony product again.

That's what I thought on my set, that it wasn't that bad and I could live with it. The more I saw it though, the more it just ticks me off. I just can't settle for this for $3000+. I have 3 stuck pixels I can live with because I can't see them unless it's a black screen, and I'm 1-2 ft away staring like crazy to find them. The clouding (mine is a haze actually) I can see from 10-12 feet away in a dark room, probably longer, but there's the wall stopping me from going any further.
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post #725 of 9118 Old 12-04-2006, 11:24 PM
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I just sent this e-mail to the technician at Sony I've exchanged e-mails with in the past regarding the issue. I'll let everyone know what I hear.

Hi xxxxxxxx,

I wanted to check in to see what the latest is on the XBR2 Mura defect myself and a growing number of Sony customers are experiencing. Have Sony's engineers been able to identify the source of the problem and if so what can we, as Sony customers, do to have are sets fixed?

The number of posts on the forum I participate in (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779) continues to grow as new users are finding the site after seeing problems with their sets and doing a little Googleing. The first result Google returns on the search string "xbr2 cloudy" takes the searcher directly to the thread. Many pictures clearly showcasing the defect and descriptions of customers making unnecessary attempts at trying to rectify the problem can be found in the thread.

Many customers are returning their sets to their place of purchase. Some try again with a new set (cases of exchanging 2 - 5 sets have been talked about) others are returning the set all together. I continue to remain optimistic that this issue will be identified and addressed by Sony in a timely manner.
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post #726 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 01:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

My set looks like yours with a little less clouding in the upper left. I wonder what kind of camera are you using, because mine couldn't pick that up. Yes, mine is unacceptable as well. Tomorrow's Tuesday, and my tech comes out on Thursday. I hope it turns out well, and they take my problem seriously, knock on wood.

Mine only picked up a bit of it, too. You can clearly see what is in the picture, but there is much more when you look at the set in person. The camera I used was a Fuji Finepix that I borrowed from a friend of mine.


Swizzir, keep us posted man. Very interested to see how your tech visit goes and what the concensus is from the technician. I don't know how they can deny that this is a defect once it is seen in person. I'm confident that at some point we'll all be able to get replacement sets if we are patient and they work these problems out. And if Sony doesn't do it, that 4 year warranty I have through Best Buy will get utilized to the fullest extent. I refuse to accept this set as normal after shelling out the bucks.
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post #727 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 01:54 AM
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I wonder if I get an XBR3 in 2007 I'll be ok.
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post #728 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Many customers are returning their sets to their place of purchase. Some try again with a new set (cases of exchanging 2 - 5 sets have been talked about) others are returning the set all together. I continue to remain optimistic that this issue will be identified and addressed by Sony in a timely manner.

will it be identified? maybe.

will it addressed in a timely manner? without a doubt in my mind, no!

the problem has been appearing since the Sept. made models, it's been well past 3 months & absolutely no improvement.
Many people posted that Sony rep's on the phone are flat out refusing to even believe that the problem exist.

I am very pessimistic about this will ever be fixed, more like it will eventually be discontinued & Sony will push out a completely new line by then.
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post #729 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 05:16 AM
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and then thye will be to much for me
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post #730 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

My set looks like yours with a little less clouding in the upper left. I wonder what kind of camera are you using, because mine couldn't pick that up. Yes, mine is unacceptable as well. Tomorrow's Tuesday, and my tech comes out on Thursday. I hope it turns out well, and they take my problem seriously, knock on wood.

If the technician does acknowledge the issue, and if perhaps there is a solution, do you think he'd log it in so it is known across all Sony service centers? If so, perhaps you can ask him what the process would be for the rest of us to get our sets corrected (or perhaps the solution is to wait for a corrected production run) so that we are not spinning wheels, and there is a point person we can contact who instantly recognizes our issue when we call in. I hope the technician doesn't act slyly to only recognize your set as bad, corrects yours quietly, then fails to recognize or report the other bad sets, resulting with Sony still not acknowledging the issue. You may be paving a very important road for us on Thursday! Let's all keep our fingers crossed for sonydude1966.
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post #731 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 06:29 AM
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Even though this is a sony thread, i have a 32" samsung lcd LNS3251D, and i have the same issue. i thought it was normal for lcd's but it always bothered me. when i 1st noticed it, i was using my htpc, so i thought it was because the video card in my computer wasn't good enough. i then started noting it on dark scenes and it really bugged me. i'm guessing its the same panel as the sony's. im going to try the tricks mentioned to verify the problem and also the destressing tricks.
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post #732 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 06:37 AM
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Hi guys,

Been keeping an eye on your posts over the last few weeks, as i was looking at the KDL-46W2000. I really wanted one before xmas, so decided to go ahead anyway, and hope it was ok.

Just set it up and could see a little bit of clouding in the top left corner, but it didnt look too bad. Left it on for an hour or so, and now it stands out a mile! and there's a bit more clouding across the screen from the main lump in the top corner

Just about to ring Sony / the suppliers now, as like most of you i want it perfect. I've got a 37" Phillips and that doesnt have any clouding at all.

Does anyone here have a perfect screen, or is it just that some are the best of a bad bunch?
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post #733 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 07:31 AM
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lavajava,

I'm pretty happy with my Sony 46" XBR3. I haven't found any flaws in the past two (2) months and I look often. It is an August 06 build and the only way I would ever let this set go is on a trade for a "perfect" Sony 52" XBR3. I've posted pictures in this thread so others can compare and possibly use my pictures to help their case with Sony.

Later...
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post #734 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

That's what I thought on my set, that it wasn't that bad and I could live with it. The more I saw it though, the more it just ticks me off. I just can't settle for this for $3000+. I have 3 stuck pixels I can live with because I can't see them unless it's a black screen, and I'm 1-2 ft away staring like crazy to find them. The clouding (mine is a haze actually) I can see from 10-12 feet away in a dark room, probably longer, but there's the wall stopping me from going any further.

Actually, this July set is better by leaps and bounds over my October set. It's like a film has been lifted and the colors are so much more vibrant (I'm NOT using Vibrant mode btw )

The clouding is there in one corner, but so super-low contrast, my picky eyes have trouble seeing it. My three other sets after 1 hour of being on would become very obviously cloudy. The last October set actually had a haze over the entire screen.

I would highly recommend those needing to exchange their sets to get a July built set - you'll find these as display models. In fact, I've noticed these display models are tagged as such and I would imgaine have gone through a bit more strict QC as these sets are being used as the public live image of the XBR2.

I'm still going to open another ticket with Sony, but I can at least live with this set until Sony corrects this issue.
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post #735 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 07:47 AM
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perhaps sonydude1966 can use them to show the tech on Thursday. That's what a good screen should look like!
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post #736 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 07:59 AM
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Just to let you guys know. Mines an October 2006 UK version.

On the phone to Sony now
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post #737 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 08:49 AM
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Just got off the phone with Sony UK.

Apparently this isnt a know issue with these sets. The guy on the phone had me on hold for a while and said he'd spoken to CARP (i think thats what he said, although it may have been an anagram). Apparently these are the head tech guys in the UK, and they've not heard of it either.

He's advised me to arrange a replacement unit, as i was just VERY unlucky to get a faulty one. I explained how many poeple had complained / swapped units, and about this thread, but apparently they wont look at forums as they are "imaginary and made up of disgruntled ex employees trying to bad mouth the company!".

I supposed i must have worked there in a past life! lol

Just emailed my supplier to arrange a swap out, and explained the situation to them, and asked them to see if they can get an answer off Sony.

It personally looks to me like Sony are banking on the fact that some people will just put up with these units, and eventually most of the crap units will find a good home. This stops them having to do a major recall, and they can just solve the problem quietly.

I'm also going to write to What Hifi Sound and Vision, as the 40" model has just won there product of the year 2006, and i'm sure there's a lot of people taking their advise and buying these units only to end up with a faullty one (like me).
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post #738 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 08:49 AM
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sontdude, let us know how it turns out with the technician - especiially the repair and whether it corrects the problem! If it does get fixed, please let us know what specifically needed to be replaced in order to get the screen to the acceptable display.

Good luck and thanks!

GT: irunnoft
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post #739 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 10:33 AM
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I've attached two pics of my first set - haven't bothered taking any of the 2nd yet because I'm trying to limit how much I allow myself to obsess about this! The clouding isn't as visible in the pics as much as it is to the naked eye. However, I used a filter for the 2nd pic (of a default DVD input screen) that causes the clouding to show up more clearly - note that this ISN'T on a blank/black screen!

FYI, I just got a call from an acquaintance who's in the CE industry. I had mentioned the problem to him before, and he said he spoke to someone who's an expert in the field who told him that "the backlight should NOT be visible in a LCD", and that I should take it back. I'm going to see him later this week, so I'll see if I can get any more advice or insight.

Also, FYI, I've heard that the big box retailers are scrambling to get more inventory of top-end LCD TV's, so that would support the idea that perhaps QC is being/has been compromised in the rush to get these to market. Couple that with the info that Sony is no longer sending panels to Japan for QC, and I think we have the cause of the problem. Of course that doesn't begin to justify it, but ...

As for how many of these sets actually have this problem ... I think most buyers might be inclined to overlook the issue simply because the picture is VERY impressive most of the time. Also, I'm assuming that the people who find and post to this site are a little more fanatical about A/V than the average Joe. However, given that we're dealing with a meaningful sample size here, I think it's safe to say that the problem is legitimate and widespread.

I feel a bit handcuffed because I got an excellent deal on this, but I'm coming around to the conclusion that I should just return it and try to arrange to get a replacement in early '07.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

Could you post a pic?

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post #740 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwb3 View Post

I've attached two pics of my first set - haven't bothered taking any of the 2nd yet because I'm trying to limit how much I allow myself to obsess about this! The clouding isn't as visible in the pics as much as it is to the naked eye. However, I used a filter for the 2nd pic (of a default DVD input screen) that causes the clouding to show up more clearly - note that this ISN'T on a blank/black screen!

Thanks for taking the pics, yes, that first pic looks like mine taken with a camera, you can't really tell. That second pic, of course, is more apparent. That's why I was fence sitting so long, and I shouldn't have been. I waited past my 30 day exchange, and I regret it, because it ate at me the second month. I wish I could turn my problem with this off, but I just kept thinking $3000+ that I spent. Day time is just great, night time stinks.

I too am trying not to let this bother me daily, and I realize I may be a bit "obsessed" I suppose, but dog gone it, this set was twice as expensive as most others for the size, and the other sets don't have this issue. My mum's Samsung from before August has nothing like this. To be dumb and happy would be preferable, but it just isn't happening for me, I freakin' tried, and look where it got me. A visit from a tech instead of a return for all my cash back.
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post #741 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 11:39 AM
 
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I wouldn't let it eat at you too much, sonydude. It will all get straightened out. Make enough noise with Sony and you'll be heard. I, too, am waiting until these sets get straightened out to start my process and I think it will all shape up in the end. There's a warranty on stuff like this for a reason. Luckily, I have two.
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post #742 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 12:36 PM
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Including my review 3 of the 8 reviews on amazon.com mention the cloudiness

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...nDate&n=172282
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post #743 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

I wouldn't let it eat at you too much, sonydude. It will all get straightened out. Make enough noise with Sony and you'll be heard. I, too, am waiting until these sets get straightened out to start my process and I think it will all shape up in the end. There's a warranty on stuff like this for a reason. Luckily, I have two.

Thanks for the positive re-enforcement. That's the way to be.
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post #744 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 01:31 PM
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I never saw a repky to this subject. What does it look like when actualy watching something on the set? Do you still see clouds and uneven lighting?
Ken
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post #745 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 01:41 PM
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I'm planning on a 46xbr3. I applaud your efforts to interact with Sony directly. Please keep in mind that the strongest message that Sony will receive is the per centage of returns. If you are dissatisfied with your unit in any way, take it back. This will reinforce your direct interactions.
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post #746 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 02:02 PM
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Be prepared to be disappointed. Here's what I got back from Sony Tier 2 Tech Support.

"We've just been informed that the reason for the "cloudy" issue of our TV's is this:

Sony's Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting. With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies or general television programming and should not affect your viewing experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu Ã* Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu Ã* Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu Ã* Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

Sounds like damage control, marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Total BS.
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post #747 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 View Post

I never saw a repky to this subject. What does it look like when actualy watching something on the set? Do you still see clouds and uneven lighting?
Ken

Ken:

Yes, you can see the cloudiness when watching material that is dark, such as Batman Returns or any of the Aliens movies. The opening word march in Star Wars is a good example too.

People have described it aptly as being similar to someone shining a flashlight on part of the screen and others have described it as watching through a smudged screen. However, bright colorful scenes are not a problem.

Check out this post for photos.
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post #748 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Be prepared to be disappointed. Here's what I got back from Sony Tier 2 Tech Support.

"We've just been informed that the reason for the "cloudy" issue of our TV's is this:

Sony's Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting. With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies or general television programming and should not affect your viewing experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu Ã* Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu Ã* Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu Ã* Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

Sounds like damage control, marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Total BS.

That cop-out BS (except mine came from Samsung) is the exact reason I decided to say "scr3w this" and got the Sharp instead. Their explanation might fly for those who have no idea what to look for, but for anyone who's seen LCD panels with backlight leakage in the past, you can easily tell that that is NOT what this is. I didn't spend 4400 dollars on a television to have the privilege of the manufacturing company telling me I'm crazy to think that their defective product is... defective.

At least Sharp fully acknowledges their issue... and is much cheaper with better blacks to boot in the meantime till it's rectified.
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post #749 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Be prepared to be disappointed. Here's what I got back from Sony Tier 2 Tech Support.

"We've just been informed that the reason for the "cloudy" issue of our TV's is this:

Sony's Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting. With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies or general television programming and should not affect your viewing experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu Ã* Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu Ã* Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu Ã* Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

Sounds like damage control, marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Total BS.

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Ok, well not ever, but close. Workarounds for defective sets are not the answer. You shouldn't have to compromise your picture quality and clarity to compensate for a defective panel. Keep at them. That answer is unacceptable and you should make that very clear to them.
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post #750 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Be prepared to be disappointed. Here's what I got back from Sony Tier 2 Tech Support.

"We've just been informed that the reason for the "cloudy" issue of our TV's is this:

Sony's Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting. With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies or general television programming and should not affect your viewing experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu Ã* Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu Ã* Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu Ã* Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

Sounds like damage control, marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Total BS.

This is outrageous, but fully expected from the likes of Sony. I'm now tempted to just return my set and be done with it. They don't deserve our hard-earned cash!
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