Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #811 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 06:33 PM
 
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"christian" gave me 2 more service centers in my area. One of them is actually closer than any of the other ones previously given to me. WTF?

The most infuriating part of the call was that I asked to speak to an XBR3 specialist and he told me that if I wanted my tv diagnosed as defective either an authorized service tech would have to come to my house and look at it or I could ship it (at my expense) to a Sony repair center for diagnosis. He acted as though product specialists didn't even exist. WTF? This is unreal.
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post #812 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by non-ricer View Post

what area are you located in? can u still return/exchange it?

I'm in Minneapolis, MN. I'm still within my 30-day return window and am leaning more and more toward doing that. Ideally I'd like to exchange it, but I'm not in the mood to keep gambling on tv sets. It's a pity, too, because the picture quality is fantastic and I really don't think there's a better tv on the market.
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post #813 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

Keep in mind that my set is a 32" Sony LCD (KLV-32M1; July'05 build; made in Japan) and not the newer 40+" XBRs. I only paid $XXXX for mine.

Anyways, I think that laying my set face down on a table is what alleviated the cloudiness that I was seeing. In retrospect, the panel likely got "stressed" during shipment or when I picked it up by myself out of the box. I also made the mistake of laying the box sideways as I transported the TV box home. I imagine these larger 40+ inch LCDs would be even more prone to stressing, either due to shipping and/or manufacturing imperfections.

My clouding did come back when I later bumped into the TV by accident. As mentioned in a past post, I decided to rub the clouds with a microfiber cloth. This actually removed nearly all the cloudiness as can be seen in the pic in my post above. I thnk that the rubbing may have spread out the "localized stress areas" which I hypothesize may be causing the clouding. You all might give this a try; it can't hurt. Of course, use common sense when doing so: keep one hand behind the panel for support; don't press so hard that your fingers turn red, etc.

Again, to the "cloud doubters" who posted in the other threads: this cloudiness issue is VERY visible on regular TV/DVD programming whenever there were scenes with dark or black backgrounds!!! I feel like strangling the naysayers who say that the "complainers" have OCD and that the issue is only visible on a blank input.
Just wanted to rant.


True, but just don't tell Sony if you do so. At least on my set, there wasn't a tamper-proof sticker, so they won't know if you don't tell.

God speaks!lol

Thank Kontai69!

Your tips was very helpful! My KDL-46XBR3 (September 2006) was very clouding. When I use a microfiber cloth, I notice the clouding effect was going in a another part of the screen. So I decide to wipe the contour the clouding effect vanish completly! There's a little cracking noise when you wipe, I think the lcd panel are just clipping back to the frame so that solve the problem.

I invited everybody to do this before to return the XBR 2 & XBR 3.



Thank again Kontai69!
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post #814 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by travis.js
I have the cloudy affect in the upper left corner. Seems like alot of people have it in this spot as well. I purchased the TV the end of October at best buy. Don't have the manufactured date but will get it tonight. It really isn't to noticeable unless you are watching a movie with dark scenes then it is really annoying!



Just wanted to follow up with this. I found out mine 46XBR2 has a build date of sep 2006 and was assembled in Mexico. I have recently taken my flat panel off the wall to wire up my surround sound along with adding some more cables. Anyway, since I needed to remove the TV I thought I would lay it flat on it's face and try that trick. So it was laying flat for about 24 hours, then I let it sit vertical for about an hour..... NO MORE SPOTS!!!!! I am hoping they don't come back, but I will let everyone know if they do.


Here is the TV with brightness set at 55 and backlight at 4 with light sensor off.
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post #815 of 9118 Old 12-05-2006, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llDonov@nll View Post

God speaks!lol

Thank Kontai69!

Your tips was very helpful! My KDL-46XBR3 (September 2006) was very clouding. When I use a microfiber cloth, I notice the clouding effect was going in a another part of the screen. So I decide to wipe the contour the clouding effect vanish completly! There's a little cracking noise when you wipe, I think the lcd panel are just clipping back to the frame so that solve the problem.

I invited everybody to do this before to return the XBR 2 & XBR 3.



Thank again Kontai69!

I don't think rubbing an LCD screen until you hear a cracking noise is such a great idea. Don't you all think that would be bad?
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post #816 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis.js View Post

Originally Posted by travis.js
I have the cloudy affect in the upper left corner. Seems like alot of people have it in this spot as well. I purchased the TV the end of October at best buy. Don't have the manufactured date but will get it tonight. It really isn't to noticeable unless you are watching a movie with dark scenes then it is really annoying!



Just wanted to follow up with this. I found out mine 46XBR2 has a build date of sep 2006 and was assembled in Mexico. I have recently taken my flat panel off the wall to wire up my surround sound along with adding some more cables. Anyway, since I needed to remove the TV I thought I would lay it flat on it's face and try that trick. So it was laying flat for about 24 hours, then I let it sit vertical for about an hour..... NO MORE SPOTS!!!!! I am hoping they don't come back, but I will let everyone know if they do.


Here is the TV with brightness set at 55 and backlight at 4 with light sensor off.

THAT is what these sets should look like. Since I'm at the end of my rope here, I'm gonna try laying mine flat again, but for a longer period of time. Initially, I had only done this for about 20 minutes, but since it's worked for multiple people here, trying it again can't hurt. I'm desparate, what can I say?
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post #817 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

I don't think rubbing an LCD screen until you hear a cracking noise is such a great idea. Don't you all think that would be bad?


Nope I don't think that not bad because. It's 4 days now and I don't still have any clouding effect back! That my be something with the frame when they're assembling the lcd panel.
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post #818 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 04:45 AM
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I have only laid mine on it's face for about an hour, with no effect. If others gte more success with longer times, I might try it. I haven't tried rubbing it. How hard should it be rubbed? Should I push with relatively strong force till I feel the panel give a with a little "creak" or "crack" sound, or similar to a deep tissue massage that you might give someone's shoulders? - Or is is more lightly like rubbing wax off your car? I don't want to break the panel with too much force.
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post #819 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:07 AM
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I have some clouding, and maybe mine's not as bad as everybody elses, but it seems that a lot of you may be overreacting, or just need to chill out a little. Sure, I may or may not still take it back because of it but you know what if I missed my window to return it I wouldn't let it get to me, it's still a fantastic TV 99% of the time! I'd rather have this TV with some clouding in low ambient light, then a less than stellar tv with no clouding at all. The thing is too when the room is completely dark I don't even notice it much because there's a lag between my eyes dialiting enough to see it well when the picture switches to something dark.

Anyway, I defenitaly understand where a lot of the frustration is coming from but I just wanted to make the "it's not THAT bad" post because it isn't and if you can't return yours yet don't trip too much... I've seen far worse defects no far more expensive TVs. Remember guys it is just a TV, and a very enjoyable one clouding or not. You'll probably have the next greatest thing in 5 years anyway.

And I'll leave on more note... It seems that people lose more sleep over subtle clouding on their TV than they do over the imperfections over their own eyes! Ever looked up at a bright blue sky and studied all the little weird imperfections of your vision? Now, a TV might be worth 3.5k after extended warranty, but your eyes - they're worth millions - no billions, and yet we learn to ignore/accept and live with the imperfections of our eyes, trust me the same can EASILY be done for this great panel.

Actually the thing that bothers me more than the uneven backlight on this display is how my pc looks on it over dvi->hdmi at 1920x1080. The text looks awful and would give you a headache with any sort of extended use. I guess it has to do with the image processing but man I wish i could turn it off and just get a perfectly sharp image like I get with my 24'' samsung syncmaster! I thought the option of working from the couch with a wireless keyboard would be nice, does anybody know of a 46 inch 1080p lcd that also works great as a computer monitor?
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post #820 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:08 AM
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dont do to much i dint think thats good but im not tech, i tried playing mine down 2 times first was for 2 hours, second time was 8 hours and im trying 16 hours, its been getting better but its a new tv got it on nov 24th so some burn-in time is required. ill report back later tonight, im trying this on my v2500 since it also has the same issue
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post #821 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 9ks2k View Post

dont do to much i dint think thats good but im not tech, i tried playing mine down 2 times first was for 2 hours, second time was 8 hours and im trying 16 hours, its been getting better but its a new tv got it on nov 24th so some burn-in time is required. ill report back later tonight, im trying this on my v2500 since it also has the same issue

When you say getting better, you think it's from laying it down? You mention burn-in time is required. Is there some truth that soem time might be needed for the cloudiness to alleviate over time? Does anyone know if this might correct the issue? It would be nice if we had some expert advice on these panels, instead of the "raindances" we keep trying to make the clouds go away.
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post #822 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

When you say getting better, you think it's from laying it down? You mention burn-in time is required. Is there some truth that soem time might be needed for the cloudiness to alleviate over time? Does anyone know if this might correct the issue? It would be nice if we had some expert advice on these panels, instead of the "raindances" we keep trying to make the clouds go away.

Wouldn't it be nice to get some expert advice from Sony! Doesn't seem like that is going to happen.
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post #823 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

When you say getting better, you think it's from laying it down? You mention burn-in time is required. Is there some truth that soem time might be needed for the cloudiness to alleviate over time? Does anyone know if this might correct the issue? It would be nice if we had some expert advice on these panels, instead of the "raindances" we keep trying to make the clouds go away.

thats what somone said in the v2500 forum that tried the same thing hes the one i got the idea from when did u buy your tv? like i said i got it nov 24th 06 and i it just starting to now fade alittle away.
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post #824 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacobandit View Post

I have some clouding, and maybe mine's not as bad as everybody elses, but it seems that a lot of you may be overreacting, or just need to chill out a little. Sure, I may or may not still take it back because of it but you know what if I missed my window to return it I wouldn't let it get to me, it's still a fantastic TV 99% of the time! I'd rather have this TV with some clouding in low ambient light, then a less than stellar tv with no clouding at all. The thing is too when the room is completely dark I don't even notice it much because there's a lag between my eyes dialiting enough to see it well when the picture switches to something dark.

Anyway, I defenitaly understand where a lot of the frustration is coming from but I just wanted to make the "it's not THAT bad" post because it isn't and if you can't return yours yet don't trip too much... I've seen far worse defects no far more expensive TVs. Remember guys it is just a TV, and a very enjoyable one clouding or not. You'll probably have the next greatest thing in 5 years anyway.

And I'll leave on more note... It seems that people lose more sleep over subtle clouding on their TV than they do over the imperfections over their own eyes! Ever looked up at a bright blue sky and studied all the little weird imperfections of your vision? Now, a TV might be worth 3.5k after extended warranty, but your eyes - they're worth millions - no billions, and yet we learn to ignore/accept and live with the imperfections of our eyes, trust me the same can EASILY be done for this great panel.

Actually the thing that bothers me more than the uneven backlight on this display is how my pc looks on it over dvi->hdmi at 1920x1080. The text looks awful and would give you a headache with any sort of extended use. I guess it has to do with the image processing but man I wish i could turn it off and just get a perfectly sharp image like I get with my 24'' samsung syncmaster! I thought the option of working from the couch with a wireless keyboard would be nice, does anybody know of a 46 inch 1080p lcd that also works great as a computer monitor?


SEARCH google for CLEAR TYPE it helps and its i microsoft powertoys
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post #825 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 9ks2k View Post

thats what somone said in the v2500 forum that tried the same thing hes the one i got the idea from when did u buy your tv? like i said i got it nov 24th 06 and i it just starting to now fade alittle away.

I got mine about a week earlier, but haven't watched a lot of TV on it yet (maybe about 16 hours total). I would be thrilled if time was a remedy. Perhaps those that have posted photos on this thread could take photos under similar conditions every couple of weeks and determine if the clouding effect is fading or not.
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post #826 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I have the e-mail for tier 2 tech support. I feel weird posting it on a public forum. I don't want to unleash the hate directly on them since they're nothing more than the messenger. If you can call customer support and ask to speak with a technical specialist for the XBR2. They're the one's you want.


Swizzir,

Send it to me in a PM, and I'll send my comments to that tech.

I think that if you have found a sympathetic tech, that he "may" pass along the info to the decision makers.

I will not be "Unloading" on him, merely passing along the same info I have already stated.

That the failure to resolve this "defect" has been the deciding factor for me to "NOT" purchase a Sony.

Thanks, Tim
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post #827 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llDonov@nll View Post

God speaks!lol

Thank Kontai69!

Your tips was very helpful! My KDL-46XBR3 (September 2006) was very clouding. When I use a microfiber cloth, I notice the clouding effect was going in a another part of the screen. So I decide to wipe the contour the clouding effect vanish completly! There's a little cracking noise when you wipe, I think the lcd panel are just clipping back to the frame so that solve the problem.

I invited everybody to do this before to return the XBR 2 & XBR 3.

Could you post some pictures?
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post #828 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 07:23 AM
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I've had my 46"XBR3 since the beginning of October. The clouding on mine was on the right side in two spots about the size of an orange. I was going to exchange it but when I talked to the person I bought it from, he said they sold other ones with the same clouding so I kept it. I really love the TV and I wanted it for games so there was nothing else I liked more to exchange it for. But I did feel like I kinda got ripped off for the price of the tv. I was reading in another thread right after I got this that someone had the same problems and used the microfiber cloth. So I tried it and it helped, but when I would put a little pressure the clouds would move. So it took a little while to get even.

So when I am watching it at night I turn the backlight down to minimum and now its almost gone.
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post #829 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 07:36 AM
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I think it would be funny if instead of techs, Sony started sending out CMTs (certified massage therapists) to inspect TVs.
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post #830 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:43 AM
 
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How exactly are you guys massaging the clouds out of place? Are you laying the tv flat to do it? Are you leaving it on? I have a microfiber cloth that came with that Monster cleaner stuff, but when I wiped the tv off once it seemed to create a lot of static which made me a bit nervous so I stopped. How long are you guys massaging it for? Cracking sounds would make me very nervous.
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post #831 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:09 AM
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When all these panels are returned who takes the cost hit....Sony or the store?
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post #832 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

When all these panels are returned who takes the cost hit....Sony or the store?

Sony - well, sorta... "Mommy, where do refurbs come from?"
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post #833 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tacobandit View Post

I have some clouding, and maybe mine's not as bad as everybody elses, but it seems that a lot of you may be overreacting, or just need to chill out a little. Sure, I may or may not still take it back because of it but you know what if I missed my window to return it I wouldn't let it get to me, it's still a fantastic TV 99% of the time! I'd rather have this TV with some clouding in low ambient light, then a less than stellar tv with no clouding at all. The thing is too when the room is completely dark I don't even notice it much because there's a lag between my eyes dialiting enough to see it well when the picture switches to something dark.

Anyway, I defenitaly understand where a lot of the frustration is coming from but I just wanted to make the "it's not THAT bad" post because it isn't and if you can't return yours yet don't trip too much... I've seen far worse defects no far more expensive TVs. Remember guys it is just a TV, and a very enjoyable one clouding or not. You'll probably have the next greatest thing in 5 years anyway.

And I'll leave on more note... It seems that people lose more sleep over subtle clouding on their TV than they do over the imperfections over their own eyes! Ever looked up at a bright blue sky and studied all the little weird imperfections of your vision? Now, a TV might be worth 3.5k after extended warranty, but your eyes - they're worth millions - no billions, and yet we learn to ignore/accept and live with the imperfections of our eyes, trust me the same can EASILY be done for this great panel.

Actually the thing that bothers me more than the uneven backlight on this display is how my pc looks on it over dvi->hdmi at 1920x1080. The text looks awful and would give you a headache with any sort of extended use. I guess it has to do with the image processing but man I wish i could turn it off and just get a perfectly sharp image like I get with my 24'' samsung syncmaster! I thought the option of working from the couch with a wireless keyboard would be nice, does anybody know of a 46 inch 1080p lcd that also works great as a computer monitor?

I would agree with you on one condition. If other panels in these exact same sets didn't look completely perfect and set a standard, you'd have a case. But other panels do exist that are perfect with no backlight or clouding issues. Those images set a precedent of what consumers of this set have come to expect.

The other problem is that the problem is only effecting newer sets which have been found and confirmed to essentially skip Sony's strict QA for tv's.

I didn't pay $3k+ for my XBR3 to enjoy it 85% of the time. I paid a premium for what was supposed to be a premium product and has been in the past. Last time I checked, paying a premium didn't involve me laying my tv face down on the dining room table like an idiot to try an alleviate a problem that Sony apparently refuses to address.

When I pay 6 times more than what I paid for my last Sony TV that performed flawlessly, I expect the same, if not better, quality in performance.

It'd be one thing if Sony acknowledged the issue and did the right thing by its premium paying customers. But for them to seemingly dismiss the issue when it is clear that there has been a shift in QA and that other perfect sets exist before that shift happened is just plain wrong. At some point, a company has to ask itself what is going to hurt its bottom line more, taking some returns and exchanges or alienating a portion of their consumer base which has been willing to pay extra for premium products up to this point.

I have a lot of money invested in multiple Sony products and all have performed brilliantly. My mental image of Sony shouldn't change based on one bad experience, but the way Sony is handling the situation makes that a possibility. I just want a TV that is worth what I paid for - and that means a cloud free screen.

If you think that's overreacting, then that is your opinion. But I would disagree.
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post #834 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:40 AM
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Amen instantpop, amen. Well said.
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post #835 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:50 AM
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SEARCH google for CLEAR TYPE it helps and its i microsoft powertoys


thanks dude, tweaking the clear type settings really helped a lot. It's actually usable now. Awesome.
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post #836 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

I would agree with you on one condition. If other panels in these exact same sets didn't look completely perfect and set a standard, you'd have a case. But other panels do exist that are perfect with no backlight or clouding issues. Those images set a precedent of what consumers of this set have come to expect.

The other problem is that the problem is only effecting newer sets which have been found and confirmed to essentially skip Sony's strict QA for tv's.

I didn't pay $3k+ for my XBR3 to enjoy it 85% of the time. I paid a premium for what was supposed to be a premium product and has been in the past. Last time I checked, paying a premium didn't involve me laying my tv face down on the dining room table like an idiot to try an alleviate a problem that Sony apparently refuses to address.

When I pay 6 times more than what I paid for my last Sony TV that performed flawlessly, I expect the same, if not better, quality in performance.

It'd be one thing if Sony acknowledged the issue and did the right thing by its premium paying customers. But for them to seemingly dismiss the issue when it is clear that there has been a shift in QA and that other perfect sets exist before that shift happened is just plain wrong. At some point, a company has to ask itself what is going to hurt its bottom line more, taking some returns and exchanges or alienating a portion of their consumer base which has been willing to pay extra for premium products up to this point.

I have a lot of money invested in multiple Sony products and all have performed brilliantly. My mental image of Sony shouldn't change based on one bad experience, but the way Sony is handling the situation makes that a possibility. I just want a TV that is worth what I paid for - and that means a cloud free screen.

If you think that's overreacting, then that is your opinion. But I would disagree.

Your argument is very sound. But on the other hand, this could actually not be sony's fault at all, and the LCD part is coming to them like this from Samsung. That would put Sony in a tough position.. For example, what choice would they have then to someone else to manufacture the LCD (note, Samsung is really the only choice) - or they could refuse to accept the part from Samsung and shut down production until Samsung fixes it. It puts them in a very tough situation. Of course we don't know which part is causing the problem or if it's sony's own assembly that's causing the problem, but I'm guessing it's an issue with the LCD part.. in that case, once Samsung fixes it, Sony would probably replace it. Though I admit that their refusal to aknowledge it is disconcerting.
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post #837 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:03 AM
 
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Your argument is very sound. But on the other hand, this could actually not be sony's fault at all, and the LCD part is coming to them like this from Samsung. That would put Sony in a tough position.. For example, what choice would they have then to someone else to manufacture the LCD (note, Samsung is really the only choice) - or they could refuse to accept the part from Samsung and shut down production until Samsung fixes it. It puts them in a very tough situation. Of course we don't know which part is causing the problem or if it's sony's own assembly that's causing the problem, but I'm guessing it's an issue with the LCD part.. in that case, once Samsung fixes it, Sony would probably replace it. Though I admit that their refusal to aknowledge it is disconcerting.

I think that's where the confusion lies. It would be lovely if Sony would tell us what the cause of the problem is. From my understanding, though, they aren't buying the part from Samsung, it's a partnership, so they would have just as much stake in it as Samsung does, and therefore just as much control over the quality.

I think that article that was posted says it all. Sony completely bypassing their QA and shipping the panels directly for assembly in Mexico speaks volumes to the fact that they are just playing the law of averages. That's not the Sony I used to know.


Oh, and thanks, Swizzir. We're going to get this figured out. Have you tried laying yours flat for an extended period of time yet? My experiement starts tonight when another set of hands gets home. If it doesn't work, my set gets returned and I buy a Pioneer Plasma instead. I've had enough of this.
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post #838 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:21 AM
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Have you tried laying yours flat for an extended period of time yet?

I have not and I'll tell you why. In an act of defiance I feel that's it's totally ridiculous to have to lay your 46", 80 some odd pound TV on its face, potentially risking damaging the set, to try and alleviate the Mura defect. Maybe if it was in the troubleshooting section of the manual I'd do it but otherwise I think it's so out of the range of what a customer should have to do in order to get a decent looking set I'm refusing to try it at the moment.
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post #839 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:40 AM
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When all these panels are returned who takes the cost hit....Sony or the store?

According to CC, the store if the unit is deemed just a return and not defective as defined by the manufacturer.

If it's defective, then the manufacturer takes the hit.
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post #840 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:49 AM
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I think that's where the confusion lies. It would be lovely if Sony would tell us what the cause of the problem is. From my understanding, though, they aren't buying the part from Samsung, it's a partnership, so they would have just as much stake in it as Samsung does, and therefore just as much control over the quality.

I think that article that was posted says it all. Sony completely bypassing their QA and shipping the panels directly for assembly in Mexico speaks volumes to the fact that they are just playing the law of averages. That's not the Sony I used to know.


Oh, and thanks, Swizzir. We're going to get this figured out. Have you tried laying yours flat for an extended period of time yet? My experiement starts tonight when another set of hands gets home. If it doesn't work, my set gets returned and I buy a Pioneer Plasma instead. I've had enough of this.

Well said. Sony should stop betting now. The odds have been very bad to them this year.
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