Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 29 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #841 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sauron256 View Post

According to CC, the store if the unit is deemed just a return and not defective as defined by the manufacturer.

If it's defective, then the manufacturer takes the hit.

So, if I take it back for an exchange or return, to Circuit City, and state that I have a "cloudy" half ring on the upper right hand side of the panel....would SONY deem it a defect? I think its a defect. Bottom line is that I hope SONY takes the hit on these returns and NOT the reseller.
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post #842 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by llDonov@nll View Post

God speaks!lol
Thank Kontai69!
Your tips was very helpful! My KDL-46XBR3 (September 2006) was very clouding. When I use a microfiber cloth, I notice the clouding effect was going in a another part of the screen. So I decide to wipe the contour the clouding effect vanish completly! There's a little cracking noise when you wipe, I think the lcd panel are just clipping back to the frame so that solve the problem.
I invited everybody to do this before to return the XBR 2 & XBR 3.
Thank again Kontai69!

Your welcome! I've been called alot of things in my life (good and bad) but "God" is certainly a first. That actually made my day.

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Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

I don't think rubbing an LCD screen until you hear a cracking noise is such a great idea. Don't you all think that would be bad?

The noises are not coming from the LCD panel itself but rather from the plastic parts in and around the panel (eg. bezel, back panel, internal framework, etc.). Try this...place a finger on top of your set and gently rock the TV back and forth. I'm sure you would hear all sorts of cracking/creaking noises. The noises are likely caused by the friction of the plastic parts, which I imagine are under alot of stress due to the weight of the TV. The same thing happens to almost anything that is heavy and constructed primarily of plastic.

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Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

I haven't tried rubbing it. How hard should it be rubbed? Should I push with relatively strong force till I feel the panel give a with a little "creak" or "crack" sound, or similar to a deep tissue massage that you might give someone's shoulders? - Or is is more lightly like rubbing wax off your car? I don't want to break the panel with too much force.

Turn off the set before rubbing. You can do it when the set is upright. Place one hand behind the set for support. I would say use about the amount of force similar to when you are buffing off the wax when you are waxing a car. If you don't see any positive effect, proceed no further! I can envision a few frustrated folks trying the rub technique, not seeing an effect, and then subsequently doing CPR on the screen to get an effect. Now THAT would cause cracking/popping noises from within the LCD panel itself...the sound of the glass layer inside of your LCD panel breaking!
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post #843 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

Your welcome! I've been called alot of things in my life (good and bad) but "God" is certainly a first. That actually made my day.

The noises are not coming from the LCD panel itself but rather from the plastic parts in and around the panel (eg. bezel, back panel, internal framework, etc.). Try this...place a finger on top of your set and gently rock the TV back and forth. I'm sure you would hear all sorts of cracking/creaking noises. The noises are likely caused by the friction of the plastic parts, which I imagine are under alot of stress due to the weight of the TV. The same thing happens to almost anything that is heavy and constructed primarily of plastic.

Turn off the set before rubbing. You can do it when the set is upright. Place one hand behind the set for support. I would say use about the amount of force similar to when you are buffing off the wax when you are waxing a car. If you don't see any positive effect, proceed no further! I can envision a few frustrated folks trying the rub technique, not seeing an effect, and then subsequently doing CPR on the screen to get an effect. Now THAT would cause cracking/popping noises from within the LCD panel itself...the sound of the glass layer inside of your LCD panel breaking!

kontai69:

I've been very impressed with your level of in-depth knowledge on these LCD panels. Mind if I ask you how you happen to be so well versed in this technology? Do you work in the field?

I sure as heck don't know what makes up the inside of an LCD panel.

I'm happy to have such an expert with us helping with this situation.
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post #844 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:24 PM
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I had a technician come to my home today to replace the LCD panel inside my second KDL-46XBR. As I stated in an earlier post, my second unit wasnt nearly as bad as the one I returned. I have been on the fence about having the tech open up the unit and put a potentially worse panel in. I decised not to let him do this as he has seen worse panels with clouding and bad pixels, maybe he realyy didnt want to do the work, but whatever.The clouding has actually become less pronounced with the calibrated settings someone else posted. Anyway, what the tech told me is that he spoke to someone high up in Sony tech support and that they are definetely aware of the issue but Sony has decided to take a "no action" policy. They are claiming that it is just the nature of the LCD panel. Not a good idea in my opinion and probably everyone elses on this board. Being that my 30 return window has expired and I still have one year left on the Sony warranty, I'm going to take a wait and see approach, as I said, I can live with this for now but will eventually want some resolution. I really feel for those who have worse units. I can only recommend that if you can still return yours, do so. Thanks.
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post #845 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pb565 View Post

I had a technician come to my home today to replace the LCD panel inside my second KDL-46XBR. As I stated in an earlier post, my second unit wasnt nearly as bad as the one I returned. I have been on the fence about having the tech open up the unit and put a potentially worse panel in. I decised not to let him do this as he has seen worse panels with clouding and bad pixels, maybe he realyy didnt want to do the work, but whatever.The clouding has actually become less pronounced with the calibrated settings someone else posted. Anyway, what the tech told me is that he spoke to someone high up in Sony tech support and that they are definetely aware of the issue but Sony has decided to take a "no action" policy. They are claiming that it is just the nature of the LCD panel. Not a good idea in my opinion and probably everyone elses on this board. Being that my 30 return window has expired and I still have one year left on the Sony warranty, I'm going to take a wait and see approach, as I said, I can live with this for now but will eventually want some resolution. I really feel for those who have worse units. I can only recommend that if you can still return yours, do so. Thanks.

Thanks for that nugget of information, pb565. It would appear that nothing short of a law-suit will get Sony to fix this problem of its own volition.

BTW, how did your replacement panel look?
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post #846 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:35 PM
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Wow. Great customer support by Sony.

On the flip-side, after one phone call to Sharp about the banding issue (one in which I accidentally got disconnected and never bothered to call back since I'd opened a ticket) I received an unprompted call one day later explaining to me that they're well aware of the issue, and will work with anyone not satisfied until it's been resolved to the customers' satisfaction.

I swear, the people bitching incessantly in the Sharp thread need to come over here and see what poor customer support REALLY is.
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post #847 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb565 View Post

I had a technician come to my home today to replace the LCD panel inside my second KDL-46XBR. As I stated in an earlier post, my second unit wasnt nearly as bad as the one I returned. I have been on the fence about having the tech open up the unit and put a potentially worse panel in. I decised not to let him do this as he has seen worse panels with clouding and bad pixels, maybe he realyy didnt want to do the work, but whatever.The clouding has actually become less pronounced with the calibrated settings someone else posted. Anyway, what the tech told me is that he spoke to someone high up in Sony tech support and that they are definetely aware of the issue but Sony has decided to take a "no action" policy". They are claiming that it is just the nature of the LCD panel. Not a good idea in my opinion and probably everyone elses on this board. Being that my 30 return window has expired and I still have one year left on the Sony warranty, I'm going to take a wait and see approach, as I said, I can live with this for now but will eventually want some resolution. I really feel for those who have worse units. I can only recommend that if you can still return yours, do so. Thanks.


SCREW YOU SONY if true.

If it is then EVERYBODY please buy a different panel.

Samsung does indeed have this problem, but it is reported much much less!

leading me to believe that the panels that are made in the S. Korea factory are NOT bypassed for quality control & are being sent to Samsung in Japan first before being sent to the U.S.
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post #848 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:48 PM
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Or that fewer people are buying the Samsung, or those that are are less likely to be aware of a forum such as AVS. The number of Sony to Samsung threads in general on these forums easily numbers 3 or 4 to 1. I wouldn't feel too safe in purchasing the Samsung if I were you (got burned thrice myself).
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post #849 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:50 PM
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How are the Sharp TV's compared to the Sony's, aside from banding and clouding issues? I'm tempted to buy the Sharp with the banding, and feel comfortable that Sharp will take ownership to fix. Do Sharp panels have any clouding, or just the banding?
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post #850 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

How are the Sharp TV's compared to the Sony's, aside from banding and clouding issues? I'm tempted to buy the Sharp with the banding, and feel comfortable that Sharp will take ownership to fix. Do Sharp panels have any clouding, or just the banding?

Just the banding. Much better black detail as well.

Trust me, the banding is MUCH easier to live with... and sounds like it actually will be taken are of.
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post #851 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 12:53 PM
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How the picture quality, ease of use, processing of various sources, etc. Any drawbacks making the switch?
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post #852 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

How the picture quality, ease of use, processing of various sources, etc. Any drawbacks making the switch?

just red push in skin tones.

you should be warned though, while backlight leakage is bad, you can easily not see it when viewing the right material/bright enough room.

With Banding, they look like burned-in lines & are visible on all sources & at all lighting conditions.

Quote:


Wow. Great customer support by Sony.

On the flip-side, after one phone call to Sharp about the banding issue (one in which I accidentally got disconnected and never bothered to call back since I'd opened a ticket) I received an unprompted call one day later explaining to me that they're well aware of the issue, and will work with anyone not satisfied until it's been resolved to the customers' satisfaction.

I swear, the people bitching incessantly in the Sharp thread need to come over here and see what poor customer support REALLY is.

true, VERY fast responses & assuring comments from Sharp customer support, but as far as we know they might just be a lot better at their job then the rude, untrained & uninformative people at Sony support.

They could say that the problem will be taken care of as IT IS their job, but they have no overall say or information on the manufacturing process.
I believe that one poster on the Sharp thread said the the person he talked to flat out said they are not allowed to tell their technicans anything about the process.
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post #853 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:24 PM
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from the the sony s2000 thread:



for those interested in what happens over the span of months to the leakage.
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post #854 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

just red push in skin tones.

I know people complain about this, but I've been able to properly adjust it with no problem via Avia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

you should be warned though, while backlight leakage is bad, you can easily not see it when viewing the right material/bright enough room.

Again, I haven't seen any backlight leakage at all with mine.

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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

true, VERY fast responses & assuring comments from Sharp customer support, but as far as we know they might just be a lot better at their job then the rude, untrained & uninformative people at Sony support.

While this might be true, I'd much rather work with a company that acknowledges the flaws and is committed to making the customer happy. Not telling them that they are crazy for thinking the product is defective.
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post #855 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

from the the sony s2000 thread:
for those interested in what happens over the span of months to the leakage.


oh hey if it gets better over time then i ain't even going to trip. I thought I was just getting used to it but it seems to already have started to fade on mine.
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post #856 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:36 PM
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oh hey if it gets better over time then i ain't even going to trip. I thought I was just getting used to it but it seems to already have started to fade on mine.

I don't see it getting better in those pics, seems worse to me.
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post #857 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 01:45 PM
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Agreed. If anything it actually looks much worse to me.
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post #858 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 02:20 PM
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I spoke w/ a Tier 2 Customer Service rep yesterday who told me they were opening a "tech rep review" and that I would hear back w/in 72 hours. I was assured that while the Sony position on this is my set is "working within specification" and that this is "inherent in the technology," if I was not satisfied they would make it right. "Making it right" was one of 1) fixing it 2) exchanging it 3) buying it back. I felt pretty good after that call.

This morning I get a call from another Sony rep, but I am in the shower so I have to call back. Upon calling I reach a different person from the one who had called, and he informed me he is in the office of the president, Sony USRA Customer Relations. He said that the technical review has revealed that there is no issue with my set, and they will not authorize a repair under warranty. This person then repeats what is now becoming a mantra, that my set has no problems, that if I just enable the light sensor and/or power savings and/or turn down the backlighting, everything will be fine. When I tell him that I have tried that and the picture is too dark to be watchable, and that I am just masking the defect in the panel, he tells me again that there is no issue with my set.

When I asked about my recourse given that I was very unhappy with the product, he said "you have no recourse with us, this is as high up as you can go" (with appealing this). What added insult to injury is his whole demeanor was dismissive - he was unfamiliar with my case, but could read in the file that the tech review had reached their conclusion and apparently "that was that." Explaining how much I had paid, how many other sets I had seen perform perfectly, how many other Sony products I had purchased over the years, how many other sets have this same problem and NOTHING. He couldn't have cared less.

Customer service is the people as well as the policies. Sony has some rotten ones on both counts.

I then told him this would probably go back in its box since I am still inside of 30 days, and that me and many others are making sure this is known on review sites, shopping bots, cnet, etc. Incredibly, again, his tone was of someone who just couldn't care less.

EDIT: now I'm screwed because (stupid me) my return period started with shipping date, not w/ date of receipt
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post #859 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 02:34 PM
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F**k! This is just getting worse and worse. I emphatically disagree that what we're seeing is acceptable for LCD's. I find it excessive and defective. What do we do now if Sony is going to categorically deny the issue?

I don't know how receptive review sites would be to looking into and publishing our complaints since these sets do sell and I'd have to guess there's some margin in them. It sounds like now we've gotten to the point that Sony will start telling their customer service reps if anyone calls describing the issue we're experiencing to tell them it's normal and nothing will be done about it.
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post #860 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 02:46 PM
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So, according to wtfer's pictures, these sets can get WORSE over time, so even if you buy a "perfect" TV, there is no guarantee it will not develop later (like after your 30 days are up).

BUT, according to pb and zswman, Sony considers clouding to be within spec and thus will do nothing to fix/replace/repair your TV if a problem does develop. If this happens to be outside your 30 day window...tough luck.

Therefore, any prosective buyers pretty much either have to shell out the $400 for a Best Buy replacement plan (or the equivalent), or buy something else, or cross your fingers and hope...

Not a good situation. I ordered my TV and am waiting for delivery (supposed to arrive today, but incompetence at Best Buy has delayed it until 12/11). I have gone back and forth between deciding to cancel my order and accepting delivery and just testing for clouds. Now that I know the problem can get worse and Sony will do nothing...I see no other option than to cancel the order...

This is very disappointing because with the exception of this issue, I have been more than satisfied with all of my interactions with Sony. They usually set the standard of excellence.

What a disappointment.
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post #861 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zswman View Post

He said that the technical review has revealed that there is no issue with my set, and they will not authorize a repair under warranty.

Another big corporation taking advantage of the little guy with the "we have your money, and are doing well otherwise, go jump in a lake, you mean nothing attitude." Did I get everything in that sentence?

I believe the only thing that's going to push Sony from the response received from the office of the president, is if it attacks their bottom line. Someone or group seems to have decided it won't. Otherwise, they won't care. Unfortunately, a small claims suit may be the only recourse. Atleast here in CA, I think it's $5,000 limit. Perhaps a regular court case if over your state's limit.

Either that, or live with it. I still have a tech coming out tomorrow to view mine. I also have regular old backlight leakage in the 2 top corners, and in the middle to the left a little on the top edge, as well as the clouding (mine is a haze), my reddish hue (which someone said was truly normal), and some dark splotching (that I don't notice unless it's a pure black screen). My haziness, backlight leakage in 2 corners and the middle is what I see at night during dark scenes.

If I could pick one fix for me, it would be my 2 corner and top middle backlight leakage to go away. Those look like little spotlights at night time during dark scenes.

My set isn't as bad as most here, so maybe I'll live with it, but I don't want to. Court wouldn't be the greatest, you'd probably have to bring your set in and present evidence of what a "normal" LCD screen looks like, and convince the judge. What a pain that would be. I'm sure that's what Sony counts on.

It would be excellent if Sony got what was coming to them. I hope HD-DVD wins and Sony has a new Beta-Max in Blu Ray. I know, I'm being mean now, I'll stop. Rant over.
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post #862 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

F**k! This is just getting worse and worse. I emphatically disagree that what we're seeing is acceptable for LCD's. I find it excessive and defective. What do we do now if Sony is going to categorically deny the issue?

I don't know how receptive review sites would be to looking into and publishing our complaints since these sets do sell and I'd have to guess there's some margin in them. It sounds like now we've gotten to the point that Sony will start telling their customer service reps if anyone calls describing the issue we're experiencing to tell them it's normal and nothing will be done about it.

You are right, now that Sony suits have made their decision the customer svc. reps will be instructed to answer any future calls complaining of this problem with the standard "This is a normal LCD glitch" answer.

I for one was holding off on my purchase and ran across this thread during my pre-purchase research.

I can tell you that I have definately seen a decrease in quality control in Sony products based on the last two tv purchases I have made.

I think at this point the obvious next step would be for all dissatisfied customers to start a letter writing campaign to all major electronics magazines such as: Sound & Vision, Home Theater Magazine, etc...

I am sure that if enough people send in negative feedback on these units they will do some type of follow up.

Here is some contact info.:

Sound & Vision Feedback Section
Email:soundandvision@hfmus.(com)
Snail Mail:
Editor, Sound & Vision
1633 Broadway
New York, NY 10019

*They recently reviewed the Sony KDL-40XBR2 in the November 2006 issue.
Read the review here: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdt...-lcd-hdtv.html
The review was very favorable so let them know that production runs of this set have the clouding problem.

---------------------------------------------

Home Theater Magazine (Letters to the Editor)
Email: htletters@primedia.(com)

*They recently reviewed the Sony KDL-46XBR2 in the September 2006 issue.
Read the review here: http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/906sony46xbr2/
The review was favorable so let them know that production runs of this set have the clouding problem.

---------------------------------------------

Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease...!

TWC (Southern Manhattan) | 4640HDC | ODN 7.2.0_11
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post #863 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by net_synapse View Post

I am sure that if enough people send in negative feedback on these units they will do some type of follow up.

Here is some contact info.:

Sound & Vision Feedback Section
Email:soundandvision@hfmus.(com)
Snail Mail:
Editor, Sound & Vision
1633 Broadway
New York, NY 10019

---------------------------------------------

Home Theater Magazine (Letters to the Editor)
Email: htletters@primedia.(com)

---------------------------------------------

Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease...!

Agreed. It's time to go grass roots on Sony's ass. I'll be writing and I encourage everyone that has posted here to do so. I we can get it on Digg that'll be a huge plus for our side.
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post #864 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronius View Post

So, according to wtfer's pictures, these sets can get WORSE over time, so even if you buy a "perfect" TV, there is no guarantee it will not develop later (like after your 30 days are up).

BUT, according to pb and zswman, Sony considers clouding to be within spec and thus will do nothing to fix/replace/repair your TV if a problem does develop. If this happens to be outside your 30 day window...tough luck.

Therefore, any prosective buyers pretty much either have to shell out the $400 for a Best Buy replacement plan (or the equivalent), or buy something else, or cross your fingers and hope...

Not a good situation. I ordered my TV and am waiting for delivery (supposed to arrive today, but incompetence at Best Buy has delayed it until 12/11). I have gone back and forth between deciding to cancel my order and accepting delivery and just testing for clouds. Now that I know the problem can get worse and Sony will do nothing...I see no other option than to cancel the order...

This is very disappointing because with the exception of this issue, I have been more than satisfied with all of my interactions with Sony. They usually set the standard of excellence.

What a disappointment.

Kronius, I think it would be wonderful if you let Sony know you have cancelled your order (assuming you have)...and let them know why. I think Sony is on a downward trend....and it pains me to say that. I will have to change my buying habits, but I will. I just can't believe this whole situation!
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post #865 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Agreed. It's time to go grass roots on Sony's ass. I'll be writing and I encourage everyone that has posted here to do so. I we can get it on Digg that'll be a huge plus for our side.


Ditto
That crap with the President of Customer Releations just broke last straw.

I'm getting the info to contract cNet & Consumer Reports & email them to strongly consider re-doing their reviews of the new Sony sets to include this info!
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post #866 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Agreed. It's time to go grass roots on Sony's ass. I'll be writing and I encourage everyone that has posted here to do so. I we can get it on Digg that'll be a huge plus for our side.

Maybe a complaint with the Better Business Bureau too. You never know. BBB.org

Headquarters:

Sony Corporation of America
550 Madison Ave
New York, NY 10022
212-833-6800

They're a member of BBB, so they atleast will answer you. Maybe it won't be the answer you want, but it will be documented anyway.
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post #867 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 04:38 PM
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Consumer Reports:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/h...m-products.htm

Quote:


Click here to tell us about your safety issues or concerns and problem products.

When you write us, please be sure to include the following:

* Your name and contact information, including e-mail address.
* Information on the product involved, including name and/or type of product, its approximate age, model number, and where and when purchased.
* A detailed description of your safety-related issue.

(Read CR's privacy policy).

That's the only link I found to report claims to CR.
someone send a reply to it. There should be enough info on this thread to prove:

"Sony is knowingly selling a defective problem, refuses to acknowledge it & refuses to repair those sets from consumers."

Maybe CR will acknowledge & report it in their magazine if enough of us complain?


Quote:


Once it has been determined that a product is defective or violates mandatory safety standards, the government requests that the company repair, replace, or repurchase the product. If a company refuses to agree to a recall, agencies can take further action. The tools we can use include administrative law proceedings, injunctions, and forced removal of goods from store shelves, Wolfson says.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...nks/index.htm:
Quote:


We list links to consumer, federal, state, and local agencies that can help with product or service complaints.

U. S. Consumer Gateway
A clearinghouse of consumer information from federal agencies: ScamAlert! provides current information on fraudulent and deceptive practices in the marketplace, including important law-enforcement contacts and tips for avoiding scams.

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post #868 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 04:41 PM
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cNet's HDTV Blog:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4532-10921_7...s&keywords=TVs

They have no reviews up for any of the new Sony sets which have these defects yet, but again if we can get in contact with them maybe they can spread the word to uninformed consumers.
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post #869 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 06:42 PM
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the more i think about this, the more i think im going to wait for the fhd1 or panasonics 50inch 1080p plasma.... too bad, i had my heart set on the xbr3.
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post #870 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauron256 View Post

Thanks for that nugget of information, pb565. It would appear that nothing short of a law-suit will get Sony to fix this problem of its own volition.

BTW, how did your replacement panel look?


He actually sensed my indesicion about replacing the panel, worse clouding, bad pixels etc, and convinced me not to change it. I am having second thoughts after watching some dark scenes at night. This whole situation is making me nauseaous.
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