Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #871 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 07:59 PM
Newbie
 
bugsbny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was so excited to get my 46"XBR2 set the other day. Ever since seeing it the first time, I fell in love iwth the esthetics and the picture I was seeing with those perfect in store feeds. I received my panel on Friday 12/1. After many hours of messing with setting to try to get even a decent HD picture (forget about SD ..even my Prog scan DVD player looks crappy), I noticed light leakage up in the right corner of the panel. I then noticed cloudiness across the whole panel on a black screen. To say the least I was beside myself.

I am having them pick it up on Friday. Given the abundance of problems and the lack of availability of this unit (local CC said 76 units on backorder..."You won't see one before Christmas"), I am opting to try the Sharp 46D62U. Realistically, I think I am heading into the fire with this one based on the extensive banding reports I have read.

Oh well...if that doesn't work, I guess I'll start thinking about Plasma and light block shades for my bright living room.

Good luck all...

Oh yeah, manufacture date: October 2006
bugsbny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #872 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wtfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
a lawsuit isn't so far out, check this article I found

Quote:


This taken from TeamXbox:

"Xbox Live user REDRUM6622 claims he has filed a class action lawsuit against Microsoft because of the problems he and other users have experienced after performing the Fall System Update.

The following info was posted on the official Xbox forums:

Filed on the 29th of November:

XXXXX XXX, Individually and on behalf of all others similarly situated,
Plaintiff, v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION, a Washington Corporation, and certain unidentified Microsoft Corporation affiliates, Defendants. )))))))))))))

Case No.
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT FOR:
1. BREACH OF CONTRACT;
2. VIOLATION OF CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT (RCW 19.86); AND
3. NEGLIGENCE
JURY TRIAL DEMANDED


SUMMARY OF CLAIMS

1. This is a class action against Microsoft and its affiliates for Breach of Contract, violation of the Washington Consumer Protection Act (CPA) (RCW 19.86) and, alternatively, Negligence. Plaintiff brings this action on behalf of himself and all other persons who experienced hardware problems with their Microsoft Xbox 360 gaming consoles following installation of Microsoft's Fall 2006 Update for the Xbox 360.

THE PARTIES

2. Plaintiff XXXX XXX is an individual resident of California. Plaintiff is the original purchaser and current owner of an Xbox 360 gaming console. Plaintiff brings this action individually and as a class action under Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure on behalf of the class specified herein."

Source: http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12394/...nst-Microsoft/

THAT'S OVER A $300 CONSOLE, people here are paying nearly $4,000 for absolute lemons & just taking it as is.

I'd love to see Sony start sweating if a few lawsuits pop up.
that might actually force them to perform quality control on their production & give us some decent sets.

FYI if you bought one in the U.K. the law definitely covers this:
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/gen...e/fs_d01.shtml

Quote:


Any goods you purchase are required to be of satisfactory quality. This includes being safe. If they are not, then you may have a claim for redress against the supplier. For further information, refer to our page Your Rights - Goods.

wtfer is offline  
post #873 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Irunnoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

a lawsuit isn't so far out, check this article I found



THAT'S OVER A $300 CONSOLE, people here are paying nearly $4,000 for absolute lemons & just taking it as is.


Nice find!

GT: irunnoft
Irunnoft is offline  
post #874 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
sonydude1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

a lawsuit isn't so far out, check this article I found



THAT'S OVER A $300 CONSOLE, people here are paying nearly $4,000 for absolute lemons & just taking it as is.

I'd love to see Sony start sweating if a few lawsuits pop up.
that might actually force them to perform quality control on their production & give us some decent sets.

FYI if you bought one in the U.K. the law definitely covers this:
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/gen...e/fs_d01.shtml

Microsoft already pulled it. I guess they don't want anyone else getting any ideas.
sonydude1966 is offline  
post #875 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:23 PM
Newbie
 
Daxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I bought my 46XBR2 about 2 weeks ago and after exchanging it for a new unit I am still experiencing the cloudiness effect. It is really bad. But I love this set for everything else, the quality of the SD broadcasts is superior to any other LCD I have seen.

Anyway my frustration is when calling Sony, they keep saying that is the first time they hear of this problem which is BS after seing all your posts.

I was wondering if it may be a good idea if we start posting a list of the work/ case numbers given by CS when we call them so we can give them as reference next time we call and for people calling for the first time. Maybe then they will start listening and do the right thing.
Daxman is offline  
post #876 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Amel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxman View Post

I bought my 46XBR2 about 2 weeks ago and after exchanging it for a new unit I am still experiencing the cloudiness effect. It is really bad. But I love this set for everything else, the quality of the SD broadcasts is superior to any other LCD I have seen.

Anyway mi frustration is when calling Sony they keep saying that is the first time they hear of this problem which is BS after seing all your posts.

I was wondering if it may be a good idea if we start posting a list of the work/ case numbers given by CS when we call them so we can give them as reference next time we call and for people calling for the first time. Maybe then they will start listening and do the right thing.

that would be a great idea

Blu-Ray Supporter
Amel is offline  
post #877 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm glad to see new users to AVS speak out about there XBR2's. I've noticed, since the inception of this thread, more users are posting their first post in this thread. To me, this speaks volumes. Here's the scenario I see. A new XBR2 owner buys their set, takes it home or gets it delivered, sets it up, turns it on, and notices the Mura defect. They probably go to Google and search for something like 'cloudy xbr2'. Try it. The first result returned is this thread. BAM! Complaint hell. It just goes to show that this problem is obvious to new XBR2 buyers.

A question for us. How many of us would consider themselves "tech" people? I'm curious to hear from people who wouldn't notice the defect then immediately come here to post about it once they did see it. Did anyone call their place of purchase or call Sony or do anything else before coming here. Personally I'm a tech guy and have known about AVS for awhile. I trolled the threads here but never posted until this issue came up for me.

Anyone know what starting a class action lawsuit entails?
swizzir is offline  
post #878 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:06 PM
Member
 
sauron256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I'm glad to see new users to AVS speak out about there XBR2's. I've noticed, since the inception of this thread, more users are posting their first post in this thread. To me, this speaks volumes. Here's the scenario I see. A new XBR2 owner buys their set, takes it home or gets it delivered, sets it up, turns it on, and notices the Mura defect. They probably go to Google and search for something like 'cloudy xbr2'. Try it. The first result returned is this thread. BAM! Complaint hell. It just goes to show that this problem is obvious to new XBR2 buyers.

A question for us. How many of us would consider themselves "tech" people? I'm curious to hear from people who wouldn't notice the defect then immediately come here to post about it. Did anyone call their place of purchase or call Sony or do anything else before coming here. Personally I'm a tech guy and have knows about AVS for awhile. I trolled the threads here but never posted until this issue came up for me.

Anyone know what starting a class action lawsuit entails?

Count me in. I'm an IT consultant with a bend for anything techie. This thread made me post on here for the first time too.
sauron256 is offline  
post #879 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Newbie
 
Daxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I'm glad to see new users to AVS speak out about there XBR2's. I've noticed, since the inception of this thread, more users are posting their first post in this thread. To me, this speaks volumes. Here's the scenario I see. A new XBR2 owner buys their set, takes it home or gets it delivered, sets it up, turns it on, and notices the Mura defect. They probably go to Google and search for something like 'cloudy xbr2'. Try it. The first result returned is this thread. BAM! Complaint hell. It just goes to show that this problem is obvious to new XBR2 buyers.

A question for us. How many of us would consider themselves "tech" people? I'm curious to hear from people who wouldn't notice the defect then immediately come here to post about it. Did anyone call their place of purchase or call Sony or do anything else before coming here. Personally I'm a tech guy and have knows about AVS for awhile. I trolled the threads here but never posted until this issue came up for me.

Anyone know what starting a class action lawsuit entails?


You are right, even though I have been a regular reader of this forum since back in the days when the first Directivos came out. I had never taken the opportunity to write. But after doing a search this was the first hit I found in goggle.

What amazes me is that Sony acts like nothing is happening and when you tell the tech about this post and all the pictures posted by owners, they say that they use AVS Forums for reference but had never seen this problem posted before. Go figure!
Daxman is offline  
post #880 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Member
 
calvinlc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was really blown away by the 46" 2500 model in Costco but this thread makes my stomach turn. I have some suggestions, that if I was in the situation some of you are in I definitely would do.
1. Small claims court - somebody mentioned this before. It's really cheap to do and even if Sony has to just deal with the cost of sending someone down to court for all these claims it is worth it. The other thing is that if you just bring this posting as evidence it will go a long way. Once one person wins a suit then it sets a precedent that other judges can follow.
2. Mail Consumer Reports - These guys aren't going to care about Home Theater, Audiophile, etc. near as much as a large magazine like CR. Because the normal everyday Joe reads CR, not just a bunch of techno junkies like most of us here.
3. Investigative Reporters - For those of you who have major Sony facilities in your local area, give a call to your local news channels, most of them have those investigative reporters who love to take it to the big companies who are screwing the little guy.

I don't own one of these TVs, but if I was in this situation this is how I would proceed. The sooner they get this damn thing fixed the sooner I can buy one I just hope that this isn't one of those deals where the next generation has a fix but has a poorer picture quality, or something like that.

Good Luck!
calvinlc is offline  
post #881 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Newbie
 
zersky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The following article documents Dell's approach in dealing with panels, that, as Sony describes have "no" problems. I only wish Sony would adopt Dell's method in dealing with defective panels:


[Dell Silently Fixes Its 3007WFP 30-inch LCD]
Page Title: Backlighting issues plagued the initial shipments of 3007WFPs, but not anymore
Category: Displays
Type: News
Date: May 11, 2006, 3:42 pm
Source: DailyTech

Dell, being the number one shipper of LCD panels in 2005 worldwide, was not about to be outdone by Apple. Over a year ago, Apple unleashed its flagship 30-inch Cinema Display, the largest LCD panel it had ever launched. Previously standing at 23-inches, the Apple Cinema displays gained exceptional praise from both the press and users alike. The new 30-inch from Apple only increased the excitement over Apple products and the company did not disappoint.

A year later, Dell launched its own 30-inch display, the 3007WFP. With its new display, Dell also introduced a much sleeker and more refined form for its LCD display. While it's debatable and up to the taste of the user about which display looks better, there's no doubt that Dell's 3007WFP is one of its best looking displays. Unfortunately, upon review and inspection, all was not well with the 3007WFP.

Arguably, it's advisable to stay away from first generation hardware as they often come with bugs that need to be worked out, but Dell's 3007WFP priced at $400 cheaper than Apple's display was too hot to pass for many. Besides the pricing advantage, Dell's 3007WFP was technically superior to Apple's 30-inch Cinema Display. Apple has since updated its 30-inch flagship to match Dell's specifications -- presumably using the same panel -- but still falls slightly short in features. Dell's 3007WFP however, was noted to suffer from a bad case of backlight uniformity. Because LCD panels are powered by fluorescent tubes behind the color panel, a diffuser is used to create a unified lighting area so that color and brightness is consistent across the screen. Interestingly, many 3007WFP reviews, indicated that there were severe hot-spots and brightness problems with the 3007WFP.

I purchased Dell's 3007WFP back in February, when Dell launched a 1-day special for Canadians, selling the unit at roughly $1400 USD. When I received the display and put it through some tests, I confirmed that the 3007WFP did indeed have a backlight uniformity problem -- a serious one. It was so serious in fact, that 40% of the right side of the display was significantly brighter than the left side of the screen. The problem actually becomes more noticeable as I turned down the brightness on the display.

I contacted Dell and explained to them the situation and they immediately shipped me a replacement display. I later found out that the new display I received was manufactured a month earlier than the one I currently had. While the Dell technician I spoke to informed me of my replacement's manufactured date, he was unable to tell me exactly how to tell so by serial number even though the revision number of the one I purchased was the same as the replacement Dell sent: A00. Of course, the replacement had the same issues as the one I purchased. Even worst, the controls at the front of the display (brightness up/down, power) were faulty and only worked 65% of the time when pressed.

Two weeks ago, Dell contacted me again -- which actually surprised me since I thought that all hope was lost -- and told me that they would able to ship me a brand new unit that they would confirm to be from an entirely new batch of panels. I was surprised because Dell CustomerCare had informed me that they were instructed to not ship out brand new units of the 3007WFP, and instead ship out refurbished units because "it would frustrate the customer." I instructed to check the panel prior to shipping it out to me because honestly, it's costly to ship these mammoth displays and I didn't want to waste time on another unit that didn't solve the problem. The reason was that replacement units did not fix the backlight problem -- until now.

Dell has a new revision of its 3007WFP, called A01. I now have both a A00 and A01 unit and can confirm that the new A01 unit significantly improves backlight uniformity. The severe hotspots that were noticeable on A00 units are now gone with the A01 unit. Customers who purchased Dell's 3007WFP when it was first introduced at the beginner of this year are slightly out of luck, as Dell will not be able to ship brand new units.

- 3007WFP A00 - Backlight uniformity problem
- 3007WFP A01 - Backlight uniformity excellent

Despite all the troubles however, I'm pleased to say that Dell has updated its display and the severe problem that existed before is now gone.
zersky is offline  
post #882 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 11:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
pikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Be prepared to be disappointed. Here's what I got back from Sony Tier 2 Tech Support.

"We've just been informed that the reason for the "cloudy" issue of our TV's is this:

Sony's Bravia LCD line of televisions are among the brightest and most color rich televisions in the world. To achieve this level of performance Sony utilizes a brighter backlight output and setting. With this exceptional brightness, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, the backlight may exhibit a slight unevenness of uniformity. This condition is not usually visible under typical conditions such as watching movies or general television programming and should not affect your viewing experience. However, should you find that this uneven uniformity does affect your enjoyment, there are a few adjustments that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu Ã* Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu Ã* Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu Ã* Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10) Combination of the above changes

The condition is not considered defective and using the above settings should rectify the issue."

Sounds like damage control, marketing mumbo jumbo to me. Total BS.


I am new in this thread. Does Costco KDL46V251L1 model also suffer from "cloudiness"?
pikoo is offline  
post #883 of 9118 Old 12-06-2006, 11:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wtfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikoo View Post

I am new in this thread. Does Costco KDL46V251L1 model also suffer from "cloudiness"?

yup
One poor guy returned his 46" 3 TIMES, only to have the same problem just as bad with each unit.

Seems there is absolutely no short term solution, Sony isn't reponding & in the end they will probably ride this out untill they release their new line of LCD TV's in early March.
wtfer is offline  
post #884 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 12:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
sonydude1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

yup
One poor guy returned his 46" 3 TIMES, only to have the same problem just as bad with each unit.

Seems there is absolutely no short term solution, Sony isn't reponding & in the end they will probably ride this out untill they release their new line of LCD TV's in early March.

If Sony doesn't help me tomorrow when the tech comes out, I'll probably head over to the local courthouse and see what it entails to file a small claims case. I'd also have to figure out who exactly to serve? I'm almost sure that info would be at the courthouse?

I wonder if copying all the info on the web will help, including this thread? I'm sure it would. I would also probably have to bring my set in or something on the court date? I wonder how that would work? My camera doesn't quite get what I am seeing, which is my problem. That would be such a hassle, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to do it if tomorrow is a bust.

I don't think it's that hard, and the little guy needs to be heard. This is unacceptable so far as I have heard in this thread. Does any one have any suggestions if this is how I am to proceed? I'll probably be on my own. Never done this before, never had to.
sonydude1966 is offline  
post #885 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 01:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
ransome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: phx,az
Posts: 606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikoo View Post

I am new in this thread. Does Costco KDL46V251L1 model also suffer from "cloudiness"?

Yes, they are just the same,I will post a picture soon.

Who are you going to believe,me or your lying eyes?
ransome is offline  
post #886 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 01:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
sonydude1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just posted my reviews of this problem on Amazon, along with some others. I tried commenting on Circuit City where I actually purchased my XBR2, and how strange, it wouldn't post, and then the "rate this product" link disappeared. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think Circuit City reviews are rigged.
sonydude1966 is offline  
post #887 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 01:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sfhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by zersky View Post

The following article documents Dell's approach in dealing with panels, that, as Sony describes have "no" problems. I only wish Sony would adopt Dell's method in dealing with defective panels:
...
Customers who purchased Dell's 3007WFP when it was first introduced at the beginner of this year are slightly out of luck, as Dell will not be able to ship brand new units.

Well the story sounds good until you learn the author seems to have been special cased and other customers who purchased early are out of luck (according to the author) I think you are hoping Sony adopts Dell's special casing rather than the treatment of the "other" customers.
sfhub is offline  
post #888 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 03:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
ransome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: phx,az
Posts: 606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I own the costco version KDL46V251L1,same panel as the xbr,looks very familiar.



Here is mine ,build date Sept 2006.Ubiquitous upper left clouding.I am also getting a light leak from the bottom left corner,very distinct.

Sony really needs to pay attention to this problem,these are the FLAGSHIP models,these are supposed to enhance and define Sony's position in the electronics world.

With problems like these defective(there is no other definition)panels,Sony's reputation and credibility are being damaged.The people who buy expensive cutting edge technology like this are also the most critical and the most vocal.

Sony, own up to the defect and fix or replace the panels,it will benefit you in the long run. A hard core trusting customer base is critical in the very competitive world of high dollar Electronics.

Who are you going to believe,me or your lying eyes?
ransome is offline  
post #889 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 05:52 AM
25S
Member
 
25S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxman View Post

I bought my 46XBR2 about 2 weeks ago and after exchanging it for a new unit I am still experiencing the cloudiness effect. It is really bad. But I love this set for everything else, the quality of the SD broadcasts is superior to any other LCD I have seen.

Anyway my frustration is when calling Sony, they keep saying that is the first time they hear of this problem which is BS after seing all your posts.

I was wondering if it may be a good idea if we start posting a list of the work/ case numbers given by CS when we call them so we can give them as reference next time we call and for people calling for the first time. Maybe then they will start listening and do the right thing.

Here is my info please add yours and repost If you dont have a sony event id number call sony at 1-800-222-7669 and get one

Member 25S Build date October 2006 serial# 80303XX Sony tech support event ID E32702363
25S is offline  
post #890 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 06:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Irunnoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
At first, when I bought my 40XBR2, I didn't have any issues. However, to my surprise and dismay, I noticed slight clouding last night for the first time. I've had this TV for almost a week now and it wasn't until I turned off my Xbox last night that I saw the clouding in my set on the black input channel. I can assure you that this wasn't there before. One of the brightest spots seems to be the lower left hand corner. I tried gently wiping the screen with a soft cloth and that somewhat spread the clouding around but didn't make it disappear.

Is there anybody who's laid their panel down flat for hours have the clouding return? I'm not thrilled that this is a supposed avenue of remedy. My concern is that the clouding will continue to get worse and that, if I do lay the panel down flat, that the clouding will only return.

If I buy the extended service plan with BB, will this be covered in the future? It doesn't sound like Sony's admitting to a problem so I'm not too confident about them solving the problem. But what about a service plan from BB?

Also, anybody know if the new models built in November suffer from this problem? Anybody get a set built in November?

GT: irunnoft
Irunnoft is offline  
post #891 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 06:49 AM
Member
 
km106's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I'm glad to see new users to AVS speak out about there XBR2's. I've noticed, since the inception of this thread, more users are posting their first post in this thread. To me, this speaks volumes. Here's the scenario I see. A new XBR2 owner buys their set, takes it home or gets it delivered, sets it up, turns it on, and notices the Mura defect. They probably go to Google and search for something like 'cloudy xbr2'. Try it. The first result returned is this thread. BAM! Complaint hell. It just goes to show that this problem is obvious to new XBR2 buyers.

A question for us. How many of us would consider themselves "tech" people? I'm curious to hear from people who wouldn't notice the defect then immediately come here to post about it once they did see it. Did anyone call their place of purchase or call Sony or do anything else before coming here. Personally I'm a tech guy and have known about AVS for awhile. I trolled the threads here but never posted until this issue came up for me.

Anyone know what starting a class action lawsuit entails?

I've been lurking in the AVS forums for years and this is the first issue I've ever posted about too. I posted my experience and pictures a couple of weeks ago. I ended up returning my set to BB, and judging by Sony's latest posture, I'm glad I did. I really loved the set and was hoping to just wait for the next batch and then snap up a defect free set at a lower price in December; but now I don't know what I will do.
km106 is offline  
post #892 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 07:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Irunnoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just went back to Amazon.com and edited my review of the TV and included the issue of clouding in my review.

GT: irunnoft
Irunnoft is offline  
post #893 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 07:12 AM
Newbie
 
avsmember's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I bought my 46XBR2 one week ago from BB. It was manufactured in Sept. It has a lot of clouding. I read through the forum and saw where a couple of people reported getting results from wiping the screen with a microfiber cloth. I heard that there use to be a problem with some LCD monitors for computers that wiping the screen would re-initialize the pixels so to speak and that perhaps this had some validity to it for the LCD TV. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, prior to reading this supposed fix in this forum, I had contacted the Sony customer support number. The young lady said she had never heard of this problem. I described it to her. Her first response was, "have you tried wiping the screen with a cloth"? Hmmmm.... I told her their was nothing wrong with my screen, that it was a backlight issue. She said then just take it back and get a new one.... Anyway, I tried the wiping last night. I admit that it did have some improvement, mostly on the smaller more diffuse clouds. But, the large and brighter clouds just won't go away. Now my set looks mor like the one posted by ransome. I am going to exchange my set this weekend. And just hope I get a good one. The color in this set is fantastic and the picture quality is great. I hate that this issue exists.

I also hate that it appears everyones attempts to get feedback from CNET or SONY or anyone else who might have some insight into resolving this issue hasn't responded. I also hate that Sony or its technicians don't have a response or process for resolving it.
avsmember is offline  
post #894 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 07:48 AM
25S
Member
 
25S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
When I called tech support they too acted like it was the first they had heard of it. I feel its important to compile a list of " Event numbers" so when some one calls and the sony tech says it's the first they have head of it just tell them I'm having the same problem that the person with event ID E32702363, xxxxxx,xxxxxx, Etc. Here is my info please add yours and repost If you don't have a sony event id number call sony at 1-800-222-7669 and get one

Member 25S Build date October 2006 serial# 80303XX Sony tech support event ID E32702363

I have been a happy sony customer for years up until this point. The fact that sony has decided to take a " No action " policy on this issue has has helped me in my decision to take action. I WILL PURSUE THIS ISSUE UNTIL SONY REPLACES OR REPAIRS EVERY SINGLE DEFECTIVE PANEL THEY KNOWINGLY SOLD!! To do that I need to know how may defective panels there are and who has them.
25S is offline  
post #895 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 07:49 AM
Member
 
michael3314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsmember View Post

I also hate that it appears everyones attempts to get feedback from CNET or SONY or anyone else who might have some insight into resolving this issue hasn't responded. I also hate that Sony or its technicians don't have a response or process for resolving it.

I have a 46XBR2 (Sept 06 BD) with the same clouding issue everyone here has spoken of. The lack of response from Sony is very reminiscent of a problem Pioneer had with its Elite Pro700. It had the worst line doubler every invented but they (Pioneer CS) just ignored the complaints. One gentleman took it upon himself to have everyone email him their name and serial number. He then had a lawyer write to Pioneer with the complaint, a list of the owners, and a request that the problem be fixed or these owners would pool their resources together (time and money) and file a class action suit against Pioneer. Within months all the sets were replaced by Pioneer with Pro710s, the same set but with a great line doubler.

I was a part of that (still have the 710) so I can verify it happened. Not saying it would work here, but its a thought.
michael3314 is offline  
post #896 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 08:19 AM
Member
 
likev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've been snapping pics of my "clouds" almost weekly to keep a history of the problem. As with most, I tried every suggested fix with minor results but eventually the clouds still return. Normally when the set has been on for a while (when it's all warmed up), say during a 2hr movie, the clouds will be at its worst.

Hopefully something will come of this and Sony will stand up to fix the problems they are having w/ these sets.

KEVIN - Sony KDL-46XBR2, Sony STR-DA5300ES, DTV HR20, PS3, XBOX360, Wii
likev is offline  
post #897 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 08:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Irunnoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 25S View Post

When I called tech support they too acted like it was the first they had heard of it. I feel its important to compile a list of " Event numbers" so when some one calls and the sony tech says it's the first they have head of it just tell them I'm having the same problem that the person with event ID E32702363, xxxxxx,xxxxxx, Etc. Here is my info please add yours and repost If you don't have a sony event id number call sony at 1-800-222-7669 and get one

Member 25S Build date October 2006 serial# 80303XX Sony tech support event ID E32702363

I have been a happy sony customer for years up until this point. The fact that sony has decided to take a " No action " policy on this issue has has helped me in my decision to take action. I WILL PURSUE THIS ISSUE UNTIL SONY REPLACES OR REPAIRS EVERY SINGLE DEFECTIVE PANEL THEY KNOWINGLY SOLD!! To do that I need to know how may defective panels there are and who has them.

When I get home from work, I'll call and get my event number for my problem and then come back and post that info. I like Michael's suggestion about a lawyer drafting a letter for more immediate resolution of the problem.

GT: irunnoft
Irunnoft is offline  
post #898 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 08:30 AM
Member
 
zswman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvinlc View Post

I was really blown away by the 46" 2500 model in Costco but this thread makes my stomach turn. I have some suggestions, that if I was in the situation some of you are in I definitely would do.
1. Small claims court - somebody mentioned this before. It's really cheap to do and even if Sony has to just deal with the cost of sending someone down to court for all these claims it is worth it. The other thing is that if you just bring this posting as evidence it will go a long way. Once one person wins a suit then it sets a precedent that other judges can follow.
2. Mail Consumer Reports - These guys aren't going to care about Home Theater, Audiophile, etc. near as much as a large magazine like CR. Because the normal everyday Joe reads CR, not just a bunch of techno junkies like most of us here.
3. Investigative Reporters - For those of you who have major Sony facilities in your local area, give a call to your local news channels, most of them have those investigative reporters who love to take it to the big companies who are screwing the little guy.

I don't own one of these TVs, but if I was in this situation this is how I would proceed. The sooner they get this damn thing fixed the sooner I can buy one I just hope that this isn't one of those deals where the next generation has a fix but has a poorer picture quality, or something like that.

Good Luck!

Excellent advice. Once I have finished the letter I am writing to Sony I am going to try to close the loop with them one last time. Then I am going to pursue all of the above, including small claims. I would welcome participation in a class-action - hopefully someone comes on the board with knowledge/expertise that could help organize the process.
zswman is offline  
post #899 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 08:35 AM
Newbie
 
fwb3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The XBR2/3 is a premium TV that costs about as much as chartering a light jet for a couple of hours. Every buyer of one of these sets has the right to expect it to work properly across the full range of picture & viewing conditions, right out of the box. We shouldn't have to hunt for defect-free sets, deal with worthless tech visits, or change the config settings to "crap mode" to get a consistently clean, pure picture. (The notion that massaging the screen or laying it face-down for hours will actually fix the problem strikes me as ludicrous. Plus I'd be concerned that it might somehow void the warranty given how sensitive these things are. But that's just me.)

I'm on my 2ND CLOUDY 40" XBR2, and I'm not happy about it.
I opened a trouble ticket with Sony Tech Support / Customer Relations last night to make sure my complaint is on record. After being persistent enough to get past the first rep (who tried to schedule for a tech to come "fix it", despite the fact that he admitted that he didn't really understand what the problem was), and the second rep (who recommended I return it and have BB let me open and approve the replacement set), I got to a third rep who gave me the "new official line" - that I just need to adjust the picture settings. Obviously that dog don't hunt. However, some of the wording she used was quite interesting and worthy of note:

"We know about it, and it's an inherent problem in the 46" XBR's ..."

(I reminded her that I have a 40", and she stumbled for a moment.)

... "As of the latest info I have today, which is from this morning, there's no further recourse at this time."

I got the distinct impression that she had fielded a number of these calls - she sounded pretty exasperated. I'm reading tea leaves here, but I also got the sense that they've taken another step towards acknowledging that there's a problem, which is very important. My guess is that it's only now working its way up the org chart.

(Interesting to note that Samsung is Sony's main competitor in LCD's, the LCD plant is in S. Korea, and although both use the *exact* same panels, Samsungs seem to have much fewer defects if the anecdotal evidence on this site is a representative sample. I highly doubt Samsung would be able to get away with cherry-picking. Maybe it *is* due to something related to the fact that they do the final assembly in Mexico?!?!)

Sony invested almost $2B in the Samsung/Sony joint venture (S-LCD), and have a lot riding on their LCD brand - both in the long term, and during the holiday season. Therefore, I have a hard time imagining that they won't deal with this - in some way at some point. So I think the questions are - how and when? The problem is that they don't have a lot of good options. If they acknowledge it now they're going to significantly damage their LCD sales for the remainder of the holiday season. If they wait, they'll get even more customers upset with them, and word about the problem will continue to leak out (kind of like how the backlight leaks on their TV's!).

The timing of this situation needs to be taken into account, and I'm sure they're looking at this from a number of angles trying to decide what to do. On the one hand, I'd think they'd be inclined to do whatever they can to avoid publicly acknowledging this situation until 2007 to avoid generating even MORE negative PR regarding Sony quality control in the middle of the holiday shopping season. On the other hand, the fact that they just came clean about defects in a small number of cameras might mean there's hope, and that maybe they learned something from the battery problem, , and are now adopting a stance of addressing QC problems earlier rather than letting them fester.

As others have pointed out, the best (and perhaps only) way to get them to deal with this (faster) is going to be to publicly shame them into it. Bitching to their Support people isn't going to do much. Those who have suggested posting public reviews on ratings sites and contacting people from the press, etc. are spot on. Alerting relevant industry and investment analysts would also be helpful, as would setting up a more formal mock petition website. Getting lawyers to pay attention won't be very difficult once more people become ware of the issue - trust me. But bear in mind that any lawsuit would take quite a while to get resolved. Therefore I think the best way to light a fire under them is to let it be known that failing to deal with this in a prompt, fair way will hit them in the pocketbook in the short term in the form of lost marketshare.

If you're still within the 30 day return period, my gut is that you may want to use it. For the recent camera recall, they agreed to fix all defective units - NOT replace them. No idea if they'd take the same approach with TV's, but I for one don't want to have to deal with a return and repair process unless they really make it worth my while. And that's assuming they actually DO try to make things right with people.

I might end up going with a plasma after all. What a PitA.
fwb3 is offline  
post #900 of 9118 Old 12-07-2006, 08:43 AM
Senior Member
 
swizzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My info:

Model #: KDL-46XBR2
Build date: October 2006
Serial #: 80312xx
Sony Customer Service Event #: E32445552

I will participate in a class action lawsuit.
swizzir is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Sony Bravia S Series Kdl 40s2010 40 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia W Series Kdl 46w5100 46 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 52xbr4 52 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv
Gear in this thread - 52xbr4 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off