Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1081 of 9118 Old 12-08-2006, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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"Are the XBR3s any better?"

No, No and No. Same exact panel, different color surround. That is all. The XBR3 are effected just as much.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1082 of 9118 Old 12-08-2006, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

I ordered the XBR3 from the Big Screen Store in Baltimore the day after Thanksgiving
and it was out of stock. They told me that it would be in within 2 weeks which is today.
Now I am being told that it probably will not be in until after Christmas. I almost bought
a Panasonic Plasma but decided to buy the Sony LCD because I was concerned about
burn in. I have a Panasonic DVR with DVD burner and have a bunch of things that I have
taped over the years that I still will want to watch on the new TV. Since I don't like the
stretch mode, I would be watching these old recordings with black bars on the side -
wouldn't that cause burn in.

Yeah, they recommend you watch stuff stretched on Plasmas for this very reason. That's one of the reason plasmas are out for me - i can't stand stretched , and far too much content is still in 4:3

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

What I really need is help in deciding what to do about the Sony that I have on order.
The Big Screen Store is an upscale store but does not allow returns (I think you can trade
up, though if you are not happy with your purchase). While I've been really anxious to
get the TV, I don't want to deal with all of the issues noted on this forum.

I was hoping that I could get some help in deciding what to do. From what I have read
here, people still think this TV has one of the best pictures around. So, does that mean that
the majority would still pick this TV given it's flaw?

Giving Sony's arrogant response to the problem it would seem that that's the case, though the people in this forum seem to consider this issue a deal breaker. I myself was unsure but am now leaning toward returning the set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

Is the cloudiness so annoying that you
really can't enjoy watching the TV?

No, for me - the vast majority of TV, movies, and games are VERY enjoyable on my coludy screen. So much so that I thought I could live with the cloudiness, but as time goes on the more I'm beginning to agree with the people that see no reason why they shouldn't get a top panel since they do seem to exist, why settle for the cloudiness, why let Sony get away with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

Would the "average" person pick up on this problem?

Not something to ask an owner that just paid a lot of money for a TV only to find a nagging problem. Guests, or people you have over enjoying the TV for free would probably notice it but think nothing of it. They'd probably think it was nothing and the brilliant image would probably stand out in their mind much more than the subtle problem during dark images. You know when you're watching a tv that has a glare on it but havn't really consciously aknowledged it.. then somebody blocks the glare and it goes away and you realize you were subconsciously aware of it the whole time? Maybe not, but I think that's how most people casually enjoying the TV would feel about it. Again, dropping top dollar on a set does tend to effect our perceptions though and make us OCD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

Would most of you noticed the problem if it hadn't been pointed out to you?

Yes because of how noticible it is on blank input or whenever a program fades to black. When images are up, even dark ones it would be hard to see exactly what's going on. It might seem more like how with a DLP the edges aren't as bright because you're not looking at it straight on. Or how we're used to the edges being outa whack on older generation LCD. This problem reminds me of this during dark images - and over the years i've come to expect it. But what I didn't expect is how it looks on a blank screen - CLOUDS! And I realize that this LCD has no viewing angle issues and that it's all about these clouds that shouldn't even be there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

Would you suggest ditching LCD's and going for Plasma given the burn-in issue?

No, not for me, because I hate stretched images, even the ones that stretch the edges more than the center. I probably hate that more than clouds. I also am a resolution junky and any 1080p plasma might be able to handle a 1080p signal but they do not have 1920x1080 pixels!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

Is it
worth waiting another 6 months to a year or more since prices are dropping and the
technology keeps improving? At what point to you just bite and buy one?

given how fast tv tech is changing today it most certainly is worth waiting another 6 months to a year to get something better for less... but there seems no end in sight. I'd been doing exactly that for 3 years - at some point you need to stop waiting and just get something right? It's interesting to note that improvment isn't always going to happen and the xbr cloudiness is a perfect example of this. the sept and oct builds are certainly not an improvment on the july builds!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post


I've also read mixed reviews on whether my old non-HD recordings to DVD are going
to look worse on this TV than they do on my Sony Triniton? Any words of wisdom on this?

standard def looks better on standard def TVs. period. Although 480i looks a lot better on the XBR2 than on many other HDTV's I've seen. You do get used to it. Sometimes after having watched SD on an HDTV for too long I'll see a good quality SD CRT screen and just be blown away by how good SD looks on it! But hey what do you expect that technology has been improved upon since the 50's - they have it looking as good as it possibly can for very cheap now, just gotta ask yourself is enjoying the HD worth sacrificing the vast amount of SD you'll still probably be watching? For most of us that's a yes. But we know that NTSC DVD's days are numbered, and have nothing but more and more HD to look forward to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post


Sorry for all of the questions but I'm hoping some answers will help me make a
decision.

Thanks in advance for your help!

My responses are my own opinion though and i'm sure many totally disagree, but there's only subjective answers to your questions and here's mine for what it's worth.
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post #1083 of 9118 Old 12-08-2006, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taquito Loquito View Post

I have one question, does the clouding affect more the Xbr2 line?? I have read that most of the people having problems have Xbr2's, and only like 2 or 3 people are having problems with the Xbr3's....So if i buy a Xbr3 I have a better chance of not getting a faulty unit...I really want 1080p!...

Lmao.
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post #1084 of 9118 Old 12-08-2006, 11:53 PM
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Has anyone heard of this happening on a Sony 52 inch model? So far I can't find a single report... Maybe they got it together for the new model?

Obsessed is such an ugly word... We like to think of ourselves as extremely focused.
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post #1085 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post

Has anyone heard of this happening on a Sony 52 inch model? So far I can't find a single report... Maybe they got it together for the new model?

We have heard of the same problems with the 52. It's possible that the 52 hasn't been as available as the 46 and 40 so we haven't heard a lot about it. Just a guess.
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post #1086 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post

Has anyone heard of this happening on a Sony 52 inch model? So far I can't find a single report... Maybe they got it together for the new model?


I posted a few pages back...I have a 52 with no clouds.
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post #1087 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 04:46 AM
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I recently purchased a 40" XBR2 and am encountering a strange problem on some DVDs. On DVDs with the blue matte FBI warning, the screen is darkened in the upper right hand corner a - small triangle. I don't see any other darkening in this corner except when the FBI screen is displayed.

Now this part is weird - If I reduce the screen width using the width button, the corner is still darkened but now has moved to the upper right corner of the reduced width (adjacent to the black bar) as if the problem is in the image itself.

This occurs with both the XBox HD DVD addon and the Skyworth 1050? using the VGA/PC input on the set.

Any idea what is going one with this?

Thanks

Bob
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post #1088 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotysystem View Post

I recently purchased a 40" XBR2 and am encountering a strange problem on some DVDs. On DVDs with the blue matte FBI warning, the screen is darkened in the upper right hand corner a - small triangle. I don't see any other darkening in this corner except when the FBI screen is displayed.

Now this part is weird - If I reduce the screen width using the width button, the corner is still darkened but now has moved to the upper right corner of the reduced width (adjacent to the black bar) as if the problem is in the image itself.

This occurs with both the XBox HD DVD addon and the Skyworth 1050? using the VGA/PC input on the set.

Any idea what is going one with this?

Thanks

Bob


Never heard of this happening, but it isn't really a clouding issue. I don't think the same problem that causes the clouding would be causing this. Sounds more like something in the source signal, DVD, or player rather than the TV.

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post #1089 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 07:39 AM
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I re-read cnet's review and noted the following:

Performance of Sony KDL-46XBR2
Having lived with the Sony KDL-46XBR2 for a couple of weeks before reviewing it, we came to the conclusion that we liked just about every aspect of picture quality with only one exception: black levels. Although better than just about any LCD panel we've ever seen in that area, there were still times when black and dark areas of the picture were a bit noisy and not quite rich enough compared to those of the best plasma sets.

Are they really just noting the cloudy problem?
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post #1090 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon1207 View Post

I re-read cnet's review and noted the following:

Performance of Sony KDL-46XBR2
Having lived with the Sony KDL-46XBR2 for a couple of weeks before reviewing it, we came to the conclusion that we liked just about every aspect of picture quality with only one exception: black levels. Although better than just about any LCD panel we've ever seen in that area, there were still times when black and dark areas of the picture were a bit noisy and not quite rich enough compared to those of the best plasma sets.

Are they really just noting the cloudy problem?

No. They are commenting on how black images on the Sony LCD are not as "rich" (in other words...as dark black) when compared to a good plasma TV. Currently, all LCDs cannot display jet black images, as CRTs (tube TVs) as capable of. What is suppose to be black on an LCD will be displayed as a very, very, very dark grey, which is most notable in a dimly lit room. This is due to "backlight leakage" and is a technological limitation of all current LCD TVs.

However, the cloud problem discussed in this thread is when some of these dark grey areas are lighter than other areas. Ideally, you should have uniform dark greyness or "backlight leakage" across the screen when displaying a blank input.
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post #1091 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 08:32 AM
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If there's been a post addressing this, I've missed it, but has anybody who's had their cloudy TV sent to a repair facility received it back yet? If so, what was the result? I think we're all waiting to hear if the panel was replaced and if the clouding has ever been actually rectified by a Sony Authorized Service Representative. Please post back your results when you get your TV back from repair.

Thanks!!!!

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post #1092 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

If there's been a post addressing this, I've missed it, but has anybody who's had their cloudy TV sent to a repair facility received it back yet? If so, what was the result? I think we're all waiting to hear if the panel was replaced and if the clouding has ever been actually rectified by a Sony Authorized Service Representative. Please post back your results when you get your TV back from repair.

Thanks!!!!

Well, mine is set to come back this Tuesday, without any changes. They said it was "normal."
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post #1093 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 08:57 AM
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its official... i'm holding off until they rectify this issue.
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post #1094 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by non-ricer View Post

its official... i'm holding off until they rectify this issue.

I can't help but wonder if they plan on ever rectifying the issue if they are saying it is "normal". Very soon they will be moving on to the next generation of LCD sets....they are constantly putting new product out there. The XBR2/3 is just one rung on the ladder. Lets just hope they get their act together someday. Right now I have little confidence that they will. They don't seem to give a damn...and that is the hardest thing for me to swallow.
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post #1095 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 09:20 AM
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I ordered a 40XBR2 from Amazon on December 1st, and of course I didn't find this thread until after it had shipped. It got delivered yesterday and it has no clouding whatsoever. I has a build date of August 2006, so I'm guessing that it must have been built in early August before their QA person was fired or got kidnapped. Either I got lucky getting an August set, or Amazon has a big stack of them and is still shipping them.

By the way, a lot of posts on this thread have been blaming the Mexico facility for this issue, but I do remember some earlier posts from some people in Australia who have the same clouding issue, and their sets were not assembled in Mexico. I'm wondering if, for whatever reason, the earlier sets with no clouding issues just happened to be much better than their minimum QA standards, and that the newer cloudy sets unfortunately still meet their standard.

I do think the good news is that since they were once able to make flawless sets, they will figure out what changed and fix it. Then everyone with a warranty should be able to get it fixed, and even if they balk at replacing the cloudy sets, you could always find some other reason why the set needs to be replaced/fixed.
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post #1096 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 09:22 AM
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To all the people who luck out in returning their TV in time or bought at a place you cant return.

Sony wants to play games then we must play games. Wait until you know that problem is fix or you can do it now. Just go buy the TV from a place that gives you a 30-day window to return. Then just swap the old TV and let them send it back to sony. You will have a new TV with out cloudy. And if you buy the TV and it still has cloudy then keep returning until you get what you pay for.
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post #1097 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 10:13 AM
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I bought the XBR3 about 3 weeks ago and noticed the clouds immediately, then found this thread. The set had an October build date. The place where I bought it tried a couple of standard lines like "normal for LCD", "try the light sensor", etc. but I firmly expressed that I disagreed and was unsatisifed. Interestingly, I got the impression that this forum causes them a lot of grief, like maybe otherwise satisfied customers turn into nit-pickers or something.

Anyway, more to the point - I mentioned that the August or earlier build date was thought to be more likely to be a good set by this forum and we checked the floor model and noticed that it was built in August. He then checked the store inventory for a serial# that was lower than the one on the floor, in hopes of finding another August set. He would not open the box to confirm but arranged to deliver the set to my house, AND let me keep both sets to compare and pick the best one.

The 2nd set was built in August and is 'near' perfect - so much better than the October model. It had normal backlight bleeding in all four corners when I first turned it on but that went away in a few minutes and I haven't seen it again. There is an ever so slight hint of a cloud in the middle portion of left edge, but you really need to focus on it to see it, even in a totally dark room. I would not have noticed this at all had this been the first set I received.

I then spent a few hours testing in the dark. In Quake4 on the Xbox 360 I found a nice dark corner and experimented with scenes where the left half of the screen is pure black and the right has some of the scene on it. On the October set your attention is immediately drawn to the upper left corner. Not true on the August set. I also did the input-switch test several times and there are no obviously distracting faults in the August set (unless you really try hard to focus on the left-middle like I mentioned).

It is a huge bummer that people are having this issue, but others may find a good set by having stores search via serial #.
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post #1098 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 10:40 AM
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FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOOD TV
Below are the setting done by a professional (that would cost you $300) for this TV. Try it out!! Picture Mode: Custom Backlight: 2 Picture: 80 Brightness: 51Color: 45 HUE: G1 Color Temp.: Warm 1 Sharpness: 25 Noise Red.: Off DRC Mode: Mode 1 DRC Palette: Reality(35), Clarity(15) Advanced Settings: Black Corrector: Off Advanced C.E.: Off Gamma: Low Clear White: Off Live Color: Off Color Space: Wide Detail Enhancer: Off Edge Enhancer: Off Power Saving: Off Display Area: Normal/Cable Box - Full Pixel/HD-DVD White Balance(GrayScale): R-Gain: -2 G-Gain: -3 B-Gain: -15 R-Bias: -4 G-Bias: -2 B-Bias: -1
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post #1099 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fher View Post

To all the people who luck out in returning their TV in time or bought at a place you cant return.

Sony wants to play games then we must play games. Wait until you know that problem is fix or you can do it now. Just go buy the TV from a place that gives you a 30-day window to return. Then just swap the old TV and let them send it back to sony. You will have a new TV with out cloudy. And if you buy the TV and it still has cloudy then keep returning until you get what you pay for.

If you swap the old TV the serial numbers aren't going to match.

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post #1100 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post

If you swap the old TV the serial numbers aren't going to match.


Dont return the box. Only the tv and you should have no problem. I return the tv 2 times and they never looked at the tv for anything. I think cause they know that the tv is bad. And if you want to make it look that good you can easy swap the serial numbers.
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post #1101 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote from tech support:

power saver : high

backlight : about 5-7

light sensor : turn on

Hmm? Will Sony make these "masking settings" the brightest new sets being built will be able to display? I sure hope not, I am luckily well within my 30 days, but would hate to lose the vividness of this set. With 300 votes and 200 bad will Sony take this problem serious?
Using "Sonylogic", one would use power saving to the extreme and unplug the set to rid the panel of clouds!
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post #1102 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 11:44 AM
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I've had my Sony KLV-32M1 since May 2005. Over the past 6 months or so I have noticed these cloudy "lines" on the screen. These are much more apparent than regular clouds that I have seen throughout this thread. It is very annoying because they are noticeable when watching anything. Is my set shot? Is there anything that can be done? I tried using a microfiber cloth to try and "wipe" out the lines, but to no avail!

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post #1103 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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oh, boy!!! Another can of worms!!!

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1104 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarcus View Post

I've had my Sony KLV-32M1 since May 2005. Over the past 6 months or so I have noticed these cloudy "lines" on the screen.

Wow. That's troubling. I have the exact same TV (July 2005 build). I haven't seen anything like that on my set so far. Did you move or bump into it during that time? I only have a slight amount of excess leakage in the upper corners which actually disappear when the set is warmed up. Unfortunately, I would say that you're are SOL since you are out of warranty. I can imagine a replacement panel costing hundreds + labor costs.

FWIW, here is mine...
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...g?t=1165695530
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post #1105 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 12:44 PM
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I just had a good experience at the BB store today. I exchanged my 2nd replacement set (both October/Mexico builds) for the store's demo model 46XBR2, which is a July build, but also from Mexico. I have it home, but need to wait another hour or two before it get's dark (I'm in Massachusetts) to see if it has clouds or not. The Magnolia supervisor was understanding of the cloudy issue after showing him some pics of the sets shown on this thread. He said they were totally unacceptable, and suprised when I told him that Sony didn't seem to care. He said that a Sony rep was visiting the store this afternoon, and was curious to see what he had to say about the issue. No other sets were returned for this problem he said, but also said that most people probably don't realize it's a problem, and videophiles, as ourselves, would be critical of such issues, and undertandably so. He didn't have a new set of TV's in, but I told him I wanted his July demo set. He said no problem, and to also bring that one back if it has clouds. I now have until Jan 31, 2007 to return it, extened because of Xmas. I'll let the group know how this one looks.
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post #1106 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetp View Post

I just had a good experience at the BB store today. I exchanged my 2nd replacement set (both October/Mexico builds) for the store's demo model 46XBR2, which is a July build, but also from Mexico. I have it home, but need to wait another hour or two before it get's dark (I'm in Massachusetts) to see if it has clouds or not. The Magnolia supervisor was understanding of the cloudy issue after showing him some pics of the sets shown on this thread. He said they were totally unacceptable, and suprised when I told him that Sony didn't seem to care. He said that a Sony rep was visiting the store this afternoon, and was curious to see what he had to say about the issue. No other sets were returned for this problem he said, but also said that most people probably don't realize it's a problem, and videophiles, as ourselves, would be critical of such issues, and undertandably so. He didn't have a new set of TV's in, but I told him I wanted his July demo set. He said no problem, and to also bring that one back if it has clouds. I now have until Jan 31, 2007 to return it, extened because of Xmas. I'll let the group know how this one looks.

You mean you traded your "normal" set in for an "abnormal" one? lol. Sony logic at work here. I was going to call Sony and ask if I could trade mine in on an abnormal one but I didn't think they would get it.
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post #1107 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 01:25 PM
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Coo-coo for Coca-puffs.
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post #1108 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by belgian85 View Post

I ordered a 40XBR2 from Amazon on December 1st, and of course I didn't find this thread until after it had shipped. It got delivered yesterday and it has no clouding whatsoever. I has a build date of August 2006, so I'm guessing that it must have been built in early August before their QA person was fired or got kidnapped. Either I got lucky getting an August set, or Amazon has a big stack of them and is still shipping them.

By the way, a lot of posts on this thread have been blaming the Mexico facility for this issue, but I do remember some earlier posts from some people in Australia who have the same clouding issue, and their sets were not assembled in Mexico. I'm wondering if, for whatever reason, the earlier sets with no clouding issues just happened to be much better than their minimum QA standards, and that the newer cloudy sets unfortunately still meet their standard.

I do think the good news is that since they were once able to make flawless sets, they will figure out what changed and fix it. Then everyone with a warranty should be able to get it fixed, and even if they balk at replacing the cloudy sets, you could always find some other reason why the set needs to be replaced/fixed.

I suspect that some bean counter had his fingers in this. After loosing a TON of money on the battery recall I believe the word at Sony is to cut costs everywhere and one area they thought they could save is to lower their standards on panels and keep those they would have otherwise refused. Just my theory though. I was going to buy a 46" bravia when I saw the Black Friday price cuts but what I knew about the panels made me hold onto my wallet. Looks like Sony needed to raise some cash and move out as much inventory as possible.
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post #1109 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by michael3314 View Post

You mean you traded your "normal" set in for an "abnormal" one? lol. Sony logic at work here. I was going to call Sony and ask if I could trade mine in on an abnormal one but I didn't think they would get it.

LOL. I can finally see my BB demo set (July build) in the dark. So far, the backlighting looks rather uniform, with no discernable patches of clouds. I'll need to sit with it for a couple of nights and watch some content all the way through. I may just gotten lucky by replacing my October cloudy set with the "rare" earlier July sets without the issue. Yeah, you're right michael3314, I guess "abnormal" for Sony is a cloud free set. If I can get a picture of mine soon, I will, so the thread can use it for comparison.
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post #1110 of 9118 Old 12-09-2006, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WLSINWI View Post

I suspect that some bean counter had his fingers in this. After loosing a TON of money on the battery recall I believe the word at Sony is to cut costs everywhere and one area they thought they could save is to lower their standards on panels and keep those they would have otherwise refused. Just my theory though. I was going to buy a 46" bravia when I saw the Black Friday price cuts but what I knew about the panels made me hold onto my wallet. Looks like Sony needed to raise some cash and move out as much inventory as possible.

That sounds about right considering the monitary beating they are taking with the PS3 and Blue ray.
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