Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,298 69.12%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.88%
Voters: 1878. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1291 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

No real offense taken, JS. But for me, there are other sets out there that deserve my money more than this one. I personally am going Pioneer Plasma and haven't seen any threads that mention major issues with that set that you do with this one. It hurts me, really, because I love this set otherwise.

But the bottom line is that I didn't pay almost $4000 for something I am not going to be 100% happy with. Once you know the clouds are there, there is no ignoring them, especially when you are trying to enjoy a movie and it's all you can focus on.

I also can't stand Sony's actions in regards to the issue. They know it's not normal and so does everyone else on the planet, but for them to spread word to retailers and techs all over the place to feed lines of crap like "oh, that's normal" and "i've never seen that before" is just plain insulting. I don't like being treated like a dumb consumer and that is why Sony will see my set returned. Sony needs to acknowledge my intelligence by having a conversation with me - not feeding me lines of horse crap.

So, since I am still within my 30 day window and the Pioneer seems to have nothing but stunning reviews and no complaints that I can find, I'm sacrficing my 1080p with clouds for 720p without. I've got a house full of all kinds of other Sony stuff that is rock solid. They aren't getting that kind of money from me for anything less. Goodbye, Bravia. Hello, PureVision.

I was in the same situation you are in. I had the 46XBR2 for a couple of hours. Noticed the cloudiness, returned the set. Switched to the 5070 plasma from Pioneer. Hands down, it is the best set I've ever owned. Despite being 768p vs 1080p, it spanks the Sony. You won't regret the switch from a picture quality stand point.

Ridding the world of ferrets, one stinking critter at a time.

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post #1292 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerretHunter View Post

I was in the same situation you are in. I had the 46XBR2 for a couple of hours. Noticed the cloudiness, returned the set. Switched to the 5070 plasma from Pioneer. Hands down, it is the best set I've ever owned. Despite being 768p vs 1080p, it spanks the Sony. You won't regret the switch from a picture quality stand point.


Yeah, but what about the dreaded "burn-in" for people who game?

GT: irunnoft
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post #1293 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:32 AM
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I am convinced the clouds described in this thread are the result of thermal induced stresses on the LCD panel. I have a 46" 1080p Samsung European model. It also presents the same type of clouding on the right hand side (top and bottom). The problem is most evident when the backlight is at its maximum (power saving off), it is much less evident with power saving low and completely disappears with medium power saving settings. The more power output of the backlight the higher the temperature acting on the LCD panel. When the TV is turned on, or the power saving settings is changed from medium to off, the light output from the backlight changes instantly but it takes 10 to 15 minutes for the clouds to be manifest themselves. This is probably caused by restriction of the thermal induced expansion of the LCD panel or else warping of the panel due to non uniform expansion in response to the increase in temperature. Any kind of compressive stresses applied onto the panel in the normal direction results in an increase in the light crossing the panel in the stressed region. The problem could be due to a manufacturing defect on the LCD panel itself (non uniform thermal expansion case) or in the assembling of the panel in the set (restricted thermal expansion case). In any case the problem is only significant (at least in my experience) when the power saving is off, in which case the backlight is far too strong to watch in dark to moderate lighting conditions. If you are watching in under strong lighting the clouding is not apparent. If you are watching in a suitably dark room the medium power saving setting seems to me to be quite good (with no clouds). Even the low power saving settings is ok under moderate lighting conditions.

Of course I think the clouding should be absent even under power saving off (max. backlight).

Also, if you want to watch DVDs with this (or presumably 1080p Sony's) set use a DVD reader with 1080 upscaling and HDMI connection - it produces a picture of amazing quality. Not much inferior to HD.
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post #1294 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:37 AM
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Most of the complaints in this thread deal with light blotches in dark images. I'm seeing a dark blotch in certain light images on my new Sony KDL-40XBR2, made in November 2006.

There's an irregular swath, predominantly vertical, sitting slightly to the left of the center line of the screen in roughly the top two-thirds of the image. In solid light gray test patterns it's barely visible as a slightly darker gray. It doesn't have a distinct edge or border. It grades very gradually into the uniformly lighter shades of gray to either side of it and below it.

It shows up only when the image on the screen is of a certain uniform lightness, as with certain test patterns on Digital Video Essentials. Most actual programs' images don't reveal it. Or at least, I haven't noticed it except when the screen is basically a uniform light gray.

Despite the apparent difference in symptoms, I think the underlying cause is the same: uneven backlighting.

EDIT:

After further experimentation with solid gray test patterns, it now appears that my Sony's problem is more one in which there are very faint vertical stripes on the screen (not irregular blotches as I originally supposed). They run from top to bottom of the screen. They look like the LCD panel has wavelike "ripples" in it, "crests" and "troughs." The "deepest" vertical trough is slightly left of the center of the screen. It is just slightly over-dark and also has an ultra-faint pinkish color tinge to it. Outboard from it are less-pronounced ripples or troughs that are really hard to see.

Another way to state it is that the LCD panel seems not absolutely flat along its horizontal dimension but rather "crumpled" in the same way that a rectangular scatter rug might appear crumpled if it has gotten "bunched up" in one direction.

Yet another way to describe it is as being like an "accordion" effect.

At any rate, I no longer think my problem is the same as the "cloudy backlight" problem most posters in this thread are complaining of. Judging by the pictures that have been posted, that problem produces what look like puffs of smoke in dark images. I don't see that kind of thing on my unit.

The main defect I see is apparently called a vertical-band or v-band mura (see http://ltswww.epfl.ch/ltsftp/EI2006/DATA/6070_17.PDF ). Here is an image from that PDF file that looks a lot like my screen displaying a gray test pattern:



Notice the faint dark vertical stripe to the right of center. It looks like the main "trough" on mine, except that mine is to the left of center.

The type of defect most people in this thread are dealing with is probably a cluster mura.

Eric Stewart
Catonsville, MD
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post #1295 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:22 AM
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To all-This is my second posting. I have a Nov. 06 Mexico 46 XBR. And, yes, when I got it, it had "minor" clouding (not apparent when cold-only after being on for ~10 minutes). My fix (from my first posting) was that (in a dark room) I set the backlight to 1, light sensor "on", power saving "off". At that point, yes-the tv was too dark. But, I reset the brightness & contrast with an Avia disk. I now am in awe of this tv. No clouding present. It looks as good in a bright room as in a dark room.Yes, I know, that in one aspect, I am "masking" the problem-the clouds shouldn't be there to begin with. But now, I don't think I could ask for a more beautiful picture. The screen (viewing a blank input) is perfectly even-no imperfections. And, yes, I do have the brightness at a correct level. I can see an even raster on the screen. The brightness is not set so low that clouding is being masked. Please-don't flame me for the settings I use. They work for me and I am happy. They may not work on your tv. Just my two cents. This is simply an awesome tv.
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post #1296 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

I have a question... I'm kinda starting to go with Instantpop's idea and move towards a plasma. 75% of the time, I'd be using this TV for my PS3, Xbox 360, or Wii. I've not really considered a plasma before, but if I return the XBR2 I purchased, anybody think that a plasma is an unwise purchase given my intended use?

BTW, I'm going to try destressing the panel as a last ditch effort before I either throw in the towel or consider a replacement.

I've had a plasma(1024x768) for the last 4 years before purhcasing the 46XBR2. For me, since I've seen 1080P it will be hard for me to look at a lower resolution panel. I've seen the PS3 on lower resolution panels at local resellers, and I just cringe everytime I walk past the PS3 kiosks/displays since I now have been spoiled by 1080P.

I've been noticing that the "clouds" change in severity on my panel. Can't determine what factors(ambient temp, panel temp, etc.) cuases this change. When the panel is off, I "wipe" the hotspot down which lessens the effect.
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post #1297 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Yeah, but what about the dreaded "burn-in" for people who game?

I've got a PS3 as well, Irunnoft, and I'm not as worried about it as I once was. There are a lot of good threads in this forum that dispel a lot of myths about plasmas. Serious concern of burn-in is a thing of the past and as long as you're not an idiot with your plasma, you should be ok. The break-in settings in another thread should be used early on.
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post #1298 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

I've had a plasma(1024x768) for the last 4 years before purhcasing the 46XBR2. For me, since I've seen 1080P it will be hard for me to look at a lower resolution panel. I've seen the PS3 on lower resolution panels at local resellers, and I just cringe everytime I walk past the PS3 kiosks/displays since I now have been spoiled by 1080P.

I've been noticing that the "clouds" change in severity on my panel. Can't determine what factors(ambient temp, panel temp, etc.) cuases this change. When the panel is off, I "wipe" the hotspot down which lessens the effect.


Either the tv's you're looking at aren't set up right or the output of the PS3 isn't right. My brother has a 720p panel that he uses for his PS3 and it still looks amazing. Hardly anything is in 1080p yet for the system anyway. I think the tradeoff from 1080p to a richer color experience and cloud-free gaming will be well worth it for me.

I fell for the whole 1080p thing, too, but right now, I'm just not buying it anymore. Heck, when I intially got my PS3 I was playing it on a standard def tv and it still looked amazing. Something you're seeing isn't right.
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post #1299 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:51 AM
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By all means I am not an expert but I just remembered something. I recall hearing somewhere that LCD screens are temperature sensitive. That being said: could it be that from being stored in the "colder" warehouses the screens shipped toward the end of the year went through a "temp stress" moving rather quickly from colder climate to a warm indoor atmosphere. Could this in any way have damaged the set? Please correct me if I am wrong.

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post #1300 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

I've got a PS3 as well, Irunnoft, and I'm not as worried about it as I once was. There are a lot of good threads in this forum that dispel a lot of myths about plasmas. Serious concern of burn-in is a thing of the past and as long as you're not an idiot with your plasma, you should be ok. The break-in settings in another thread should be used early on.


Can you post a link to the relevant thread for me? Thanks!

GT: irunnoft
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post #1301 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Can you post a link to the relevant thread for me? Thanks!

There's quite a few of them, Irunnoft. I just did a search for "plasma and video games" and read everything I could find.
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post #1302 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

There's quite a few of them, Irunnoft. I just did a search for "plasma and video games" and read everything I could find.


Thanks for the tip!

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post #1303 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

Either the tv's you're looking at aren't set up right or the output of the PS3 isn't right. My brother has a 720p panel that he uses for his PS3 and it still looks amazing. Hardly anything is in 1080p yet for the system anyway. I think the tradeoff from 1080p to a richer color experience and cloud-free gaming will be well worth it for me.

I fell for the whole 1080p thing, too, but right now, I'm just not buying it anymore. Heck, when I intially got my PS3 I was playing it on a standard def tv and it still looked amazing. Something you're seeing isn't right.

To each his own. I like more pixels. Been there done that on 1024x768.....onward to 1080P.
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post #1304 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 11:15 AM
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I was out earlier today and had a few minutes to kill so I stopped at the local P.C. Richards here in NYC.

I walked over to the 40" XBR3 and sure enough even with the very bright lights of the showroom there were the dreaded clouds.

A salesman saw me looking at the set and quickly ran over and proceeded to fire up the Blue-Ray DVD player to in his words "Show me what this baby can do".

We watch the demo disc for a minute or so then I ask him "Have you been getting returns on this set due to the clouding problem?".

He claims no knowledge of the problem so I proceed to explain it and have him turn off the DVD player so we have a black screen and boom, there are the clouds.

He asked me if other LCD 's also have this problem and I advise him that some Samsung units (which use the same panels) suffer with the same defect.

The salesman insist that to his knowledge no sets have been returned due to this defect.

He stares at the screen for a bit and exclaims "Wow, I guess you learn something new every day"

As we walk away from each other I notice an elderly couple at the front of the store returning a large LCD display.

There were several managers talking to them so I casually walk over to see what was up.

Well guess what was being returned folks...?

You guessed it, a Sony 46" XBR2 with a cloudy picture.

These retailers are very well aware of this issue but will never admit to it.

All you can do if you really want one of these units is to :

a) Wait a couple months for a new production run with (hopefully) no defect

- OR -

b) Search for a retailer that has stock and is willing to let you do an in-store inspection before taking delivery of the tv.


TWC (Southern Manhattan) | 4640HDC | ODN 7.3.2_20
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post #1305 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 12:20 PM
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I ordered the 46XBR2 from Amazon after reading great reviews on Amazon and cnet (no negative reviews were posted yet). Out of the box I found it had the clouding issue. Surprise, surprise it has a September 2006 build date. I called Sony customer service and they denied having heard anything about problems like this and told me to contact a certified technician (info on the case number is below). I did and have an appointment for December 22, however that will not happen. I just notified Amazon that I am returning the TV (I'll post info on how the return goes). After hearing all of the denials from Sony I don't want to have to put up with that BS. I'm just really disappointed with Sony's lack of qc and lack of customer service on this one. They just lost a loyal customer here.

25S or anyone else who is still collecting info, here is the data on my call to customer support:
Model #:KDL-46BXR2
Build date: September 2006
Serial# 80246XX
Sony customer support event #: E32779758
Customer Service representative: Ruth

Oh the kicker was, when I asked for a number for technical support they gave me a 900 number.
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post #1306 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 12:22 PM
 
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Yeah, this whole business of stores "never hearing of the problem" is another aspect that sealed the return for me. I don't have time to be given the old back and forth.

Note to retailers: If I come in to your store and you can clearly see I know what I am talking about, don't treat me like an idiot. The only reason I'm purchasing my plasma from the BB near my house is because the salesman acknowledged my XBR issue, looked at this thread with me online and said while he had never seen it before, he understood my dissatisfaction. He even offered to open up several XBR boxes in the warehouse and see if we could remedy my problem. I told him I'd be buying something else later this week, but appreciated the offer.

Sony stuck it to themselves on this one. Denying the problem and then passing that info on to retailers to do the same sealed the deal. I won't be buying a Sony TV again for a long, long, long time. If I do, it better clean my house while I watch it.
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post #1307 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aranhalcd View Post

I am convinced the clouds described in this thread are the result of thermal induced stresses on the LCD panel. I have a 46" 1080p Samsung European model. It also presents the same type of clouding on the right hand side (top and bottom). The problem is most evident when the backlight is at its maximum (power saving off), it is much less evident with power saving low and completely disappears with medium power saving settings. The more power output of the backlight the higher the temperature acting on the LCD panel. When the TV is turned on, or the power saving settings is changed from medium to off, the light output from the backlight changes instantly but it takes 10 to 15 minutes for the clouds to be manifest themselves. This is probably caused by restriction of the thermal induced expansion of the LCD panel or else warping of the panel due to non uniform expansion in response to the increase in temperature. Any kind of compressive stresses applied onto the panel in the normal direction results in an increase in the light crossing the panel in the stressed region. The problem could be due to a manufacturing defect on the LCD panel itself (non uniform thermal expansion case) or in the assembling of the panel in the set (restricted thermal expansion case). In any case the problem is only significant (at least in my experience) when the power saving is off, in which case the backlight is far too strong to watch in dark to moderate lighting conditions. If you are watching in under strong lighting the clouding is not apparent. If you are watching in a suitably dark room the medium power saving setting seems to me to be quite good (with no clouds). Even the low power saving settings is ok under moderate lighting conditions.

Of course I think the clouding should be absent even under power saving off (max. backlight).

you seem to know a lot about this, did you work on LCD's before?


Just to note, I went to Best Buy & Circuit City again & noticed all the Sony displays has backlight leakage, the 46" in CC was the worst one. I can't believe anyone would want to buy that set after seeing the display turn black for at least a 1 second.

Just for a kicker, Sony's older 720p 46" S2010 on display also had leakage as well.
seems that they are getting new shipments that go without QC on their older models as well.
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post #1308 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 12:47 PM
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I got an e-mail back from Chris Connery @ DisplaySearch. Nothing earth shatterint but I though I'd share with everyone.

--------------------------------------
Having spent many years with both NEC and NEC-Mitsubishi I am quite aware of the phenomena typically known as Mura. Without seeing the phenomena in person then it is difficult to determine if this is the anomaly that you are seeing.

If we are able to determine if there are any known pandemic issues with mura for Sony's (S-LCDs) 1080p 46" LCD products, then I am happy to let you know but as of this writing I am not aware of any such wide spread problems. Our organization is typically considered a "to the trade" organization and thus we do not typically test individual products or provide guidance or opinions on one product vs. another (such as a consumer reports) due to potential conflicts of interest (unless there was a known, "epidemic failure" which would be known to hinder future sales).

My personal recommendation to you would be that you continue to work directly with either Sony or the Retailer from whom you purchased. Sony, as a brand, has always stood behind their products from my professional opinion and even if this is indeed a mura issue with the TV which you purchased, this does not necessarily mean that this same issue would be a problem on any sort of replacement product. From my past history with mura, the anomaly did not typically occur across the board but was more related to manufacturing tolerances (the mura effect that I am most familiar with is related to the micro-bead spacers between the two sheets of glass which allow the liquid crystals to twist or untwist).

Again, if I become aware of any larger issue which Sony is having with this model, then I will pass along the information.

Regards

Chris Connery
DisplaySearch
---------------------------------

This is in reference to my post here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9145816

for those that missed it. Also here's a link again to a post I made with pictures of what we're talking about for those that are new here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9140028
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post #1309 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

you seem to know a lot about this, did you work on LCD's before?


Just to note, I went to Best Buy & Circuit City again & noticed all the Sony displays has backlight leakage, the 46" in CC was the worst one. I can't believe anyone would want to buy that set after seeing the display turn black for at least a 1 second.

Just for a kicker, Sony's older 720p 46" S2010 on display also had leakage as well.
seems that they are getting new shipments that go without QC on their older models as well.

So, when is your LT-46131 being delivered?
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post #1310 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 01:13 PM
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Ok, this is very strange but it kinda worked. I have a Samsung 4695D that also suffers from cloudy backlight. I took an old t-shirt and ran it horizontally back and forth on the cloudy areas....with the tips of my fingers through the shirt. The effect was to dull the cloudy appearance....and the more times I did it, the more it seemed to work. I had to do it several times, because my rubbing would occasionally make it even worse...but I now have it down to where you can barely see the clouding. You have to look really really hard to see it.

This is a very unconventional fix...but worth a try?

I would have taken a plasma instead, but the Sammy plasma I looked at had very poor black crush...and the picture wasn't as vibrant and bright as the LCD, strangely enough. I decided to pick my poison and stick with the LCD...backlight issues and all...because you don't notice it all that often and it's better than the alternative (potential burn-in, etc).
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post #1311 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:08 PM
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I bought a 46'' XBR2 few weeks ago and I returned it due to the cloudiness 2 weeks later. The set was built in Nov 2006, in Mexico. I noticed that the cloudiness got worse after my husband tried to wipe it with something we bought from Sony Style store.

We paid 300 dollars extra and exchanged it for a 46'' XBR3, built in Oct. 2006, Mexico, and the new set has the same problem. I will probably return it too at the end of the 30 days, because there is no improvement (even if one small cloud from a corner disappeared by itself after 2 days).

Big disappointment !!
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post #1312 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorox View Post

I bought a 46'' XBR2 few weeks ago and I returned it due to the cloudiness 2 weeks later. The set was built in Nov 2006, in Mexico. I noticed that the cloudiness got worse after my husband tried to wipe it with something we bought from Sony Style store.

We paid 300 dollars extra and exchanged it for a 46'' XBR3, built in Oct. 2006, Mexico, and the new set has the same problem. I will probably return it too at the end of the 30 days, because there is no improvement (even if one small cloud from a corner disappeared by itself after 2 days).

Big disappointment !!

Yeah, the cloudiness can get worse at times with wiping it down...just depends. I tried to lightly rub it with the shirt...it seemed the cloudiness got worse the heavier I applied the pressure. If you did it very lightly, it seems to get better.

Yes, it's a big dissapointment but I have tried all the technologies and been bothered by things on all of them: on LcOS and DLP...I am bothered by the silk screen effect and the overly shiny appearances of objects. On plasma...I am concerned of burn-in and there seems to be a lot of black crush...very hard to get black levels just right. On LCD...there are the poor black levels and the cloudy backlight risk. I am going to live with the cloudy backlight, as sad as it may be, because there will always be something with these tv's that bothers me.
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post #1313 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by net_synapse View Post

I was out earlier today and had a few minutes to kill so I stopped at the local P.C. Richards here in NYC.

I walked over to the 40" XBR3 and sure enough even with the very bright lights of the showroom there were the dreaded clouds.

A salesman saw me looking at the set and quickly ran over and proceeded to fire up the Blue-Ray DVD player to in his words "Show me what this baby can do".

We watch the demo disc for a minute or so then I ask him "Have you been getting returns on this set due to the clouding problem?".

He claims no knowledge of the problem so I proceed to explain it and have him turn off the DVD player so we have a black screen and boom, there are the clouds.

He asked me if other LCD 's also have this problem and I advise him that some Samsung units (which use the same panels) suffer with the same defect.

The salesman insist that to his knowledge no sets have been returned due to this defect.

He stares at the screen for a bit and exclaims "Wow, I guess you learn something new every day"

As we walk away from each other I notice an elderly couple at the front of the store returning a large LCD display.

There were several managers talking to them so I casually walk over to see what was up.

Well guess what was being returned folks...?

You guessed it, a Sony 46" XBR2 with a cloudy picture.

These retailers are very well aware of this issue but will never admit to it.

All you can do if you really want one of these units is to :

a) Wait a couple months for a new production run with (hopefully) no defect

- OR -

b) Search for a retailer that has stock and is willing to let you do an in-store inspection before taking delivery of the tv.


hahahahahhaha

thats only in America

just sell it, don't care about the consumer

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post #1314 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:31 PM
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I just bought the Sony KDL-46XBR2 at Best Buy on Sunday,10 Dec 2007.
I had been looking for a Big Screen for a long time and settled on this one.
I found out about this forum yesterday as i was searching for some other problems i was having with adjustment.Thank goodness i am happy to report that my TV made Nov 2006 had no Cloudyness and works great and am very pleased by the awesome picture.It was on sale at Best Buy for $3419.99 and i was able to get them to knock off $150 more.I did get the Best Buy 4 year extened warranty also.So i added my vote above. Oh yeah we have Digital TV Cable hook up.
Thanks!
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post #1315 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by texjames View Post

I just bought the Sony KDL-46XBR2 at Best Buy on Sunday,10 Dec 2007.
I had been looking for a Big Screen for a long time and settled on this one.
I found out about this forum yesterday as i was searching for some other problems i was having with adjustment.Thank goodness i am happy to report that my TV made Nov 2006 had no Cloudyness and works great and am very pleased by the awesome picture.It was on sale at Best Buy for $3419.99 and i was able to get them to knock off $150 more.I did get the Best Buy 4 year extened warranty also.So i added my vote above. Oh yeah we have Digital TV Cable hook up.
Thanks!

You have to wait until night time to be sure you don't have clouds.
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post #1316 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:52 PM
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Also as "aranhalcd" notes on his post, and I've seen first hand, that settings and panel temperature could determine the severity of the "mura" effect.
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post #1317 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texjames View Post

I just bought the Sony KDL-46XBR2 at Best Buy on Sunday,10 Dec 2007.
I had been looking for a Big Screen for a long time and settled on this one.
I found out about this forum yesterday as i was searching for some other problems i was having with adjustment.Thank goodness i am happy to report that my TV made Nov 2006 had no Cloudyness and works great and am very pleased by the awesome picture.It was on sale at Best Buy for $3419.99 and i was able to get them to knock off $150 more.I did get the Best Buy 4 year extened warranty also.So i added my vote above. Oh yeah we have Digital TV Cable hook up.
Thanks!


Just as a note, and I'm not meaning this as a slam against texjames at all, but I wonder how many new owners - especially new large screen LCD owners - even know what to look for or how to look for it.

You really need to be eye level with the TV and you need to check at night in the dark. Don't turn on any lights, just watch the TV in the dark room and see. If you put it on a blank input feed then and see a perfectly even backlighting, then I'd say you have a cloudless set.

Alot of people might not realize that some of these clouding issues are very subtle. The more I think about it, the more I think that mine always had clouding. I was originally under the impression that mine didn't have clouds. However, it wasn't until I watched the black Playstation 3 screen at night with the lights off that I first noticed the clouds. Prior to that, I'd always had some form of light on when either gaming or watching the TV.

My clouding issue isn't that bad. Some people have been able to readily see the clouds with the lights on in the room at night. Some people have had no trouble seeing the clouds in the daylight, as well. Now that I know they are there, I have to look really intently if I want to see them during the day or when I'm using the TV and I have the lights on. My clouding on my October 2006 set is very, very mild compared to some I've seen pictures of on this thread.

I'm kind of on the fence about returning it for either a Pioneer plasma or a 60XBR2 rear projection. The deal with the plasma is that I'm concerned about the amount of gaming I do. I game for several hours at a clip. I also have three game consoles to hook up to the TV. This is initially why I went with an LCD in the first place. I also don't think I want to have to go through all the hassel of breaking in my TV if I buy a plasma. After all, this has been hassel enough with dealing with the cloudy Sony. I just want a 1080p TV that I can just plug up and use and not have to deal with all this crap!

I don't know about the rear projection XBR2 because it is really a lot larger than I have room for in this room. The flat panel LCD was perfect.

It's just annoying to have to go through all this junk. I've already spent thousands on a new TV. I should be enjoying it instead of having to feel compelled to be checking the official cloudy backlighting thread every day.

Good thing I'm still within my 30 day window at BB and I can return or exchange it. However, Best Buy did say that they would send somebody to my house to fix my TV if I exchange it and get another cloudy one. With the PSP plan, I'd be able to have a tech come out and fix it if I went beyond the 30 day period and if Sony didn't address the problem.

That's the one thing that might make me keep this TV.

I just don't know at this point and it's really begin to weigh on me

GT: irunnoft
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post #1318 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 03:01 PM
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Ok, I just laid the panel down on my bed for a rest. I'm officially trying de-stressing the panel. . . at least something in this house will be stress free!

I'll let you all know how a few hours of face-down time affect the TV.








This is ridiculous. . .what's next? An exorcism???

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post #1319 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Good thing I'm still within my 30 day window at BB and I can return or exchange it. However, Best Buy did say that they would send somebody to my house to fix my TV if I exchange it and get another cloudy one. With the PSP plan, I'd be able to have a tech come out and fix it if I went beyond the 30 day period and if Sony didn't address the problem.

That's the one thing that might make me keep this TV.

I just don't know at this point and it's really begin to weigh on me

Don't keep it past the 30 days unless you want to keep it. It may be subtle, but if you wait, Sony won't fix it, especially since yours is like mine, not that bad. Just like a car, this thing depreciates 33% after you take it home. You won't be able to get what you paid for it. I just had mine returned by the Sony authorized shop, and was told nothing is wrong, everything checked out. Mine is very subtle at night, during night scenes. I kept it past my initial return date, so I have to keep it or sell it at a loss. BTW, it really is an excellent TV other than the subtle clouds I have. I am half way tempted to keep this.
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post #1320 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 03:18 PM
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I'm telling ya, try calling a lawyer.
If not just for a 10 minute conversation, it can't cost you anything & you can find out some sound legal grounds for Sony to repair all of your sets. How hard can it be?
Especially if you already went through the hassle of calling Sony, getting a technician to come by & sending the TV to Sony to inspect.

I personally would myself, but I don't own any of these Sony TV's.
I typed in "Lemon Laws" in google & this is what I got:

http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/

Quote:


If you have a lemon automobile or consumer product you might be entitled to a new vehicle or a return on your investment. 99% of our cases settle without going to trial, so you have nothing to lose but your lemon.

Lemon law rights are different from state to state. If you have a defective vehicle or defective consumer products and you think that you might fall under the protection of the lemon laws in California - call the attorneys of Krohn & Moss **(phone edited out)**
Our attorneys have handled thousands of lemon law claims and have experience with the laws specific to California.

We have successfully pursued claims for clients on vehicles including cars, trucks, mini-vans, suvs, recreational vehicles and campers, full size vans, boats, motorcycles and even jet skis. We have also helped clients with claims for other consumer products, including computers.

When you work with the attorneys of Krohn & Moss in California, your legal costs are 100% free, so you pay nothing out of pocket!

If they handled claims for Computers, then they sure as hell will do it for $3-$4,000 TV's.

heres another site
http://www.yourlemonlawrights.com/st...california.htm

Quote:


The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a Federal Law that protects the buyer of any product which costs more than $25 and comes with an express written warranty. This law applies to any product that you buy that does not perform as it should.

Your car is a major investment, rationalized by the peace of mind that flows from its expected dependability and safety. Accordingly, you are entitled to expect an automobile properly constructed and regulated to provide reasonably safe, trouble-free, and dependable transportation - regardless of the exact make and model you bought. Unfortunately, sometimes these principles do not hold true and defects arise in automobiles. Although one defect is not actionable, repeated defects are as there exists a generally accepted rule that unsuccessful repair efforts render the warrantor liable. Simply put, there comes a time when enough is enough - when after having to take your car into the shop for repairs an inordinate number of times and experiencing all of the attendant inconvenience, you are entitled to say, That's all,' and revoke, notwithstanding the seller's repeated good faith efforts to fix the car. The rationale behind these basic principles is clear: once your faith in the vehicle is shaken, the vehicle loses its real value to you and becomes an instrument whose integrity is impaired and whose operation is fraught with apprehension. The question thus becomes when is enough?


Quote:


One of the most important parts of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is its fee shifting provision. This provision provides that you may recover the attorney fees incurred in the prosecution of your case if you are successful - independent of how much you actually win. That rational behind this fee shifting provision is to twofold: (1) to ensure you will be able to vindicate your rights without having to expend large sums on attorney's fees and (2) because automobile manufacturers are able to write off all expenses of defense as a legitimate business expense, whereas you, the average consumer, obviously does not have that kind of economic staying power. Most of the Lemon Laws contain similar fee shifting provisions.

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