Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1351 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniz View Post

Update:
I had an authorized tech out to the house today. He is now reading this forum after searching on google. He sent the link to a contact a Sony. He was able to see the issue clearly. He was very understanding and knows LCD's quite well. He told me a whole load of useful stuff.

1.) Sony often makes the first batch of a products (in our case July/early Aug) in-house with top quality products and close QC. This gives all the professional reviewers (CR, CNET, ect..) a very good product to review. After the first batch is out there and done, Sony will often switch to cheaper components (which is most likely the case here). They may also rush production and skip on QC to meet demand for their "gleemingly" reviewed new product.

2.) The tech told me that he thinks there is a defective backlight reflector in this particular model that is causing the problem. It cannot be replaced without replacing 90% of the TV. Not many techs would have the ability or know how to replace this component on-site or at their workshop.

3.) His Sony contact told him that this issue was "normal" and could be "corrected" by using the light sensor. He agreed with me that was not a fix but a mask.

4.) Sony's QC has been lacking, case in point battery recall and previous Sony CRT based rear projection TV's. He told me a couple years back Sony was doing the same exact thing with a group of bad rear projection TV's that they made. They denied that the projectors were defective and got sued in a major class action suit which resulted in a recall, special CRT repair kit to be installed free of charge in every single affected TV, and a free 4 year extended warranty on all sets. Sony lost big time on this. The judge threw the book at them. We see this happening again.


This pretty much guarantees it. Sony will not fix or replace or even eventually start making new ones without the defect.

Thanks for the reply, Miniz. That was by far the most helpful & informative information we got on this issue so far.

Good news to know that they been doing these shady business practices on their TV line before & lost big in court.
That means people do really have a case as it seems it will be the only way for them to get their's fixed/replaced.
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post #1352 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

did you try the settings posted here a few pages back?

Yes and I turned the light sensor on, and that did help but made the picture too dark, I like it with light sensor off. I almost can't notice this clouding unless I really try and focus like crazy, and the camera shows nothing. Just trying to figure out if I have this problem, or maybe not cause it's so little. I wanted to know if this is what everyone else sees? Do I have it if my clouds are barely visible?
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post #1353 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Ok, I just laid the panel down on my bed for a rest. I'm officially trying de-stressing the panel. . . at least something in this house will be stress free!

I'll let you all know how a few hours of face-down time affect the TV.

This is ridiculous. . .what's next? An exorcism???

Irunnoft,
After reading all of tonight's posts, my vote is yours for the most humorous Let us know how the patient does. Next is incantations and incense...

Jay S.
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post #1354 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 07:52 PM
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Wow, first let me start by saying how impressed I am with this thread!! I have never seen this type of comradery to try to determine if there is a problem, and if so, where is the problem. I am very impressed by Miniz knowledge and drive to try to educate others who have this problem, or those who may not even know they have an issue.

I am the repair tech that was at Miniz home today. I promise to use this forum to update everyone on my findings regarding this issue. I do not own this model, but I did stop by a local Best Buy to see if they have this set and how it looks. They had both the 46XBR2 and XBR3. It was hard to see if the XBR2 has this symptom since it is under the scorching lights of the main sales floor, but the XBR3 is in the 'special' Magnolia department. The symptom was very easy to see as soon as the video content changed from a widescreen image, to a full screen one. On all four corners, obvious bright spots. I briefly mentioned this to the 2 salesmen, one didn't even see what I was talking about (proving that not all HT sales staff are competent), the other did see it, but tried to downplay it since there were customer's within ear shot. They wouldn't admit if they had any exchanges or complaints on either of these two models.

If anyone has any questions, I will try to check this forum on a fairly regular basis.

By the way, Miniz... that is one sweet Mini you got. I have never seen an authentic Mini in that condition.
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post #1355 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElexTech View Post

I am the repair tech that was at Miniz home today.

Greetings. Thanks for registering and keeping us posted on this issue. Don't post anything that'll get you fired though.

Here's a collection of pictures you can look at that show some really bad sets (mine included).

http://homepage.mac.com/meldridge/cloudytv.zip

New forum members take a look too.
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post #1356 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Greetings. Thanks for registering and keeping us posted on this issue. Don't post anything that'll get you fired though.

Here's a collection of pictures you can look at that show some really bad sets (mine included).



How do you tell that what I have isn't just what is normal? Mine isn't cloudy, but it's uneven, and leaky in a couple of corners. I can see a little tiny cloud or smoke hazeyness once in a while. Do you think I have this? My camera won't show it when I take a picture, so maybe I don't.
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post #1357 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefer View Post

How do you tell that what I have isn't just what is normal? Mine isn't cloudy, but it's uneven, and leaky in a couple of corners. I can see a little tiny cloud or smoke hazeyness once in a while. Do you think I have this? My camera won't show it when I take a picture, so maybe I don't.

Download and unzip the photos at the link I posted. Use those pictures as a guide. You'll know.
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post #1358 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 08:56 PM
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Mine aren't as bad as some of those pictures. I attached a picture of what mine looks like in a dark room. Mine is even a little better than that. I just can't tell if I have "the problem." Am I suppose to be perfectly even without any smoky haze at all in the least?
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post #1359 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post


Alot of people might not realize that some of these clouding issues are very subtle. The more I think about it, the more I think that mine always had clouding. I was originally under the impression that mine didn't have clouds. However, it wasn't until I watched the black Playstation 3 screen at night with the lights off that I first noticed the clouds. Prior to that, I'd always had some form of light on when either gaming or watching the TV.

I just don't know at this point and it's really begin to weigh on me

I completely relate. Just FYI, I have bought and returned three Samsung 46" LCD's in the past 3 weeks...and each of them had cloudy backlight issues. The set I have right now also has it. It is only really noticeable when I am watching with the lights off...and there is a completely black screen/transition to commercial or in between movies on HBO, etc. It is also noticeable in XBOX in dark scenes. Again, I have had some success previously by wiping down the set with a t-shirt....in the affected areas. It seemed to make the white clouds less severe.

My question is this: Has anyone started off with clouds and then had them go away on their own? I am hoping this is the case.

Just like you, I am at my wits end...and really see no alternative. I am a big gamer as well and do not wish to risk burn-in with a plasma. Having also intensely compared plasma to LCD this week, I prefer the sharpness and brightness of the LCD picture. I find the plasma a little dull, in comparison. Also, the LCD I bought has 1080p.

The bottom line is this: If I keep exchanging and returning until I find that one "perfect" set, I will drive myself insane. I have already wasted so many hours on this....for real, I am losing perspective on a lot of other things in my life and it's bumming me out.

Sometimes, it's better to give up.
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post #1360 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consigliere View Post

By all means I am not an expert but I just remembered something. I recall hearing somewhere that LCD screens are temperature sensitive. That being said: could it be that from being stored in the "colder" warehouses the screens shipped toward the end of the year went through a "temp stress" moving rather quickly from colder climate to a warm indoor atmosphere. Could this in any way have damaged the set? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think there is definitely something to this. When I first powered on my tv, it didn't seem to have any cloudy backlight at all...in the first 30 minutes. Then, it gradually got worse.
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post #1361 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post

DVD Freaky,
Someone very early on in this thread also mentioned wiping the areas of cloudiness, but in conjunction with the de-stressing method. I'm on the second day after having the set face down for about 90 minutes and the clouds are less prevalent by a large degree still. This with the set being on for several hours, with the Backlight intentionally set at 8. I haven't tried the "wipe the area" method, but at this point mine are better, still there, but better. Technically I have no clue what having the set face down does, but figured it was worth the shot. Still have my ticket up with Sony and Best Buy service and call to the house scheduled...

Jay S

Jay, I may try the face down method with my Samsung...see if it works. Also, I think there is definitely something to the temperature of your living area/versus where you got it from. I live in a very cold part of the country and going from a delivery van to my warm apartment....I think it definitely does something to these panels. By the way, Best Buy's delivery people recommended to me when they delivered the tv that I don't power on the LCD for 2 or 3 hours after delivery, to allow it to adjust to the warmer temperature. I did follow their advice, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference as far as preventing the clouds.
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post #1362 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:29 PM
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Went to Retailer tonight to try and return TV and they would not take it back without a technician coming out to my home and verifying that there is a problem. The TV is only a week old and they still would not give me my money back. WOW. I put up the biggest stink with multiple managers and got nowhere. I have a tech scheduled to come out Friday so they can give there opinion. So much for a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.
Oh I forgot to state that they would return it but with a 15% restocking fee. They would not take my word for it. When I told them about this site and the problems allot of other people were having with the same model they looked at me like I was some nut.

If the tech ok`s the return I am considering the new Samsung 50" plasma with pixel shift. Is this a good TV? Looked great on display. I don`t want to make another mistake so your input is much appreciated.

THANK YOU.
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post #1363 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefer View Post

Mine aren't as bad as some of those pictures. I attached a picture of what mine looks like in a dark room. Mine is even a little better than that. I just can't tell if I have "the problem." Am I suppose to be perfectly even without any smoky haze at all in the least?

I think you attached the wrong picture. Actually I know it's wrong because that's my set.
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post #1364 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by notrealhappy View Post

Went to Retailer tonight to try and return TV and they would not take it back without a technician coming out to my home and verifying that there is a problem.

What messed up store refused a return? Is this stated when making the purchase? Some stores do that for computers, but I haven't seen one playing hard ball on a TV when they have a 30 day return policy. NAME THEM BASTARDS.
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post #1365 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:41 PM
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Sears

They told me when I purchased if there was any problem I had 30 days to return.
Restocking fee was never mentioned. That did not make a difference to the mangers that that were on this evening.
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post #1366 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notrealhappy View Post

Sears

They told me when I purchased if there was any problem I had 30 days to return.
Restocking fee was never mentioned. That did not make a difference to the mangers that that were on this evening.

Yep, there policy isn't so great, "A 15% restocking fee applies on Tires, select Home Appliances, Home Electronics, Home Improvement, Household Goods, Lawn & Garden, and Automotive products not returned in the original box, unused, and containing all original product packaging and accessories."

So, Sears is NOT SO GOOD when it comes to, "Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Back." 15% of $3000 = $450, nothing to scoff at. Man, I had that happen with my Aunt at Best Buy on a computer she didn't like just because of the keyboard layout was different than what she was use to and she wanted a different one.
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post #1367 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 09:58 PM
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No one's really told me how I know I have this issue? I have tried to explain the best I can. I think maybe I don't have it?
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post #1368 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I think you attached the wrong picture. Actually I know it's wrong because that's my set.

Yes, that's the closest one to mine, so we're close to the same, mine a little better, that's all I'm saying. When I take a picture, I don't see anything. That's why I used one of the others (yours) to kind of see what mine looks like.
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post #1369 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefer View Post

Yes, that's the closest one to mine, so we're close to the same, mine a little better, that's all I'm saying. When I take a picture, I don't see anything.

Ahh. I see. If yours looks like mine (but a little better) I'd say you have a problem although not as bad as some of the pictures posted here. Try and get a picture of yours posted for us to look at so we can be sure.
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post #1370 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notrealhappy View Post

Sears

They told me when I purchased if there was any problem I had 30 days to return.
Restocking fee was never mentioned. That did not make a difference to the mangers that that were on this evening.


That's bull, just go back to them & say that the TV IS DEFECTIVE.
Try a different Sears if the managers are giving you a hard time.
Tell them it might have been dropped or mishandled & the picture does not match what the floor display looks like & clearly there is something wrong with it.

If they refuse to refund you in full on a defective product that they sold you within the 30 day policy then they are breaking a law & CAN be fined by the state.

Restocking fees are ONLY for items that are NOT defective & are returned for personal reasons.
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post #1371 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Ahh. I see. If yours looks like mine (but a little better) I'd say you have a problem although not as bad as some of the pictures posted here. Try and get a picture of yours posted for us to look at so we can be sure.

Best I could do on a picture, in total dark with active blank input. I can't see any clouding in the picture, and only slight in person, extremely little, almost unnoticeable. I maybe think I don't have what you have, but it's close, so I don't know what to think? I need a diagnosis.
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post #1372 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefer View Post

Best I could do on a picture, in total dark with active blank input. I can't see any clouding in the picture, and only slight in person, extremely little, almost unnoticeable. I maybe think I don't have what you have, but it's close, so I don't know what to think? I need a diagnosis.


hmm the first picture you posted looks nothing like this one.
Try maybe taking a picture closer up to where the problem spots are.

Also something from the Sharp thread:
Quote:
Sharp, Sony and LG are now under investigation by the Japanese government for price fixing. The US government announced today that it will join the investigation. Apparently there is ample evidence that these companies are guilty. Other lcd panel manufacturers may also be implicated.

I can't confirm if that's true or not as no source was given. This could be revelvent to the thread later on.
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post #1373 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:45 PM
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Bought my TV 3 days ago.....didn't find this thread, otherwise I would have thought it over.

My TV's manufacturing date is November 2006...so the issue is still present. Considering going back to CC and talking to someone, see if I can have them help me get a model manufactured before August.

Has anyone actually considering filling a lawsuit against sony for putting out a product with such crappy QC?
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post #1374 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

hmm the first picture you posted looks nothing like this one.
Try maybe taking a picture closer up to where the problem spots are.

That was my best picture. So, I don't have the problem then if you can't see it in an all dark picture, right? I can see some uneveness, and some smokey haze once in a while, but I'm good. I think I can count myself as one of the lucky ones? Wouldn't you agree by my picture?
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post #1375 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 10:55 PM
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Guys, I have to admit. I went to a local BB today and when I saw the set on sale and a nice manager giving me additional $150 off, I could not resist. So; after reading 44 pages of this thread, knowing that the potential for a problem is there, I went ahead and bought it anyway. The TV sat in my room attaining "room temperature" for about an hour, unpacked but not turned on. I am now watching what I would easially describe as a life changing experience. After the initial power up I did notice slight clouding in the bottom left corner but after a few adjustments ( I have no clue what I did lol) the picture looks increadible and the clouding is almost not present.

Build date: October 2006
KDL-40XBR2
Purchased in Norther NJ 12-12-06

I am not sure on the rules of the forum so I am not posting the actual pricing but I will gladly share with anyone interested via PM or the public forum if allowed. Pictures will be posted shortly.

Damn Sony has done it again; A semi-defective product (to be proven) rated as one of the best sets out there to date and another happy customer. Thank you for all the input from everyone on the forum.

"Sabrina dont just stare at it, Eat it!"
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post #1376 of 9118 Old 12-12-2006, 11:05 PM
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Wow! The number of new AVS members is really flooring me. So many posters to this thread with November and December registration dates. Owners of this LCD are really starting to take notice of their defective sets and finding like owners here. I think that's quite telling about this problem.

Look at it this way. LCD TV's have been for sale for years. I know that they've just become affordable enough for mid-class folk like ourselves to own but find me anywhere else on AVS or on the Internet for that matter where so many people have come together to express their dislike of the TV they just spend several thousand dollars on. I've got to believe that if something like this has happened before at this scale we'd know about it.

I'd like to start culminating a FAQ about the issue geared to answer all the repeated questions we see here from new users on a (pretty much) daily basis. I'd be glad to host it (and maybe even register a domain name).

Lets start getting our list of questions together for the FAQ and hash out some answers. Does anyone know of a good open source web based tool I should use to host the FAQ. I've got a lot of experience setting up Linux/Apache/PHP/MySQL packages so that's what I'm leaning towards.

I'm thinking either WordPress (http://wordpress.com) or Drupal (http://drupal.org)
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post #1377 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 12:25 AM
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What's sad is the Westinghouse LVMW3 I used to have showed none of the clouding the XBR2 has.
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post #1378 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniz View Post

He will get back to me. Possibly, I can talk directly with the rep. I'm out of the return window and this is my 3rd set. The store wouldn't take it back anyway, as they lost at least $100 shipping it up to me 3 times. I'm waiting for the class action law suit or for Sony to own up to the problem and fix these sets.

Where did you purchase from?
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post #1379 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 03:02 AM
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Here are some shots of my panel. Looking straight on, the clouds look white, but from an angle, I see discoloration on a blank screen. Any idea what this is? All opinions welcome.

Pic One

Pic Two

Pic Three

EDIT: Build date is AUG 06
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post #1380 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 03:11 AM
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Does anyone know if the Sony KDL-40V2500 has the same issues as the XBR2?
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