Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1441 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

No, not necessarily. The exposure time on your camera was likely too quick. I can take a picture and make my panel look just like that, but it has to do with the camera settings - not the TV. I'm not trying to bully you, but the fact that you can say that you think you see minor clouding means that you are seeing an area of uneven backlight bleeding through. I'm beginning to believe that all these sets have this problem. I just think that some are much more pronounced and glaringly obvious than others.

Just to update my situation. First, my wife passed by the bed and saw the TV doing a faceplant on it last night. She walked into the room and then walked out and said, "Honey, did you know the TV is face down on the bed?" I replied "Yep. I put it there." She said "Ummm. . . okaaaay. . . . . . . . . . .why?" I responded that our TV was stressed out and I was de-stressing it. I explained the clouds to her. She immediately went to my CD collection, found my Doors Greatest Hits compilation and threw it in the trash as she said it was causing me to have flashbacks! Ok, so I embellished that last sentence. Actually, what she said was "That's a load of crap! You paid too much money for that TV to have a single problem wrong with it." In less than 5 minutes, she perfectly understood the crux behind our argument with this issue. Can I live with this TV the way it is? Yes. The real issue that is going to bother me is WHY should I HAVE to LIVE with any issue with my new TV. The very notion of having to do all these goofy home remedies is preposterous. What if you had to go through all this nonsense to get your new car running? Would any of us put up with that? A resounding "HELL NO!" should be echoing across the fruited AVS plains! I better get down off this soap box or I'll have my blood pressure through the roof.

To make a long story short: did the de-stressing work? Yes and no. Yes, it seemed to make the clouds less visible. Did it make them go away entirely? No. Even though I wanted to look at the screen through rose colored glasses and be all optimistic, I'm not going to be in denial about it. I can still make it out. However faint it is, I now know it's there and I'm just OCD enough (apparently, I've just come down with this disorder since purchasing this TV ) that I can see it.

The silver lining? The picture is amazing. Damnit! That's what I hate about this situation! If the picture sucked. . . I'd be fully persuaded to take the damn thing back and get a full refund. BUT. . . the picture is so fantastic. The detail in HD-DVD and Blu Ray is wonderful. The color is amazing. I LOVE everything about this TV when it is functioning as I, at the very least, expect it to.

To be honest, I don't know if I would notice that clouding issue as it exists now on my set, if I didn't already know about this forum and this thread. If I was John Q Customer and I just bought this set and brought it home, I might notice that slight cloudy abberation at the corner and think nothing more of it. I might discount it as "normal for an LCD TV of this size." However, I'd seen the clouding worse than it is right now. I'm afraid the situation could gradually grow worse - that's my real underlying fear about just "dealing with it" until Sony gets a fix. Optimistically (which is hard to do now), it could just go away. Wouldn't that be nice? If we just leave these TVs on long enough, maybe the problem will disappear after a 100-200hr break in period (something akin to breaking in a plasma). However, to be perfectly honest, if I wasn't concerned about burn in, I'd be all over the Pio plasma even though it is only 720p. Again, this is sad because my whole rationalization/justification for this new TV purchase was to get a 1080p panel for the PS3 and the HD-DVD Xbox addition. Yeah, right! That's what I told my wife, at least!

So here we go again. Just when I think I know what I'm going to do, I'm considering PLAN B and then PLAN C and then PLAN D all over again. One minute I'm thinking "The hell with it! I'm getting a plasma TV and all will be black in my world again! ". Then I'm thinking "Ok, I'll just get the 46" Mits. LCD which is a) bigger than I want/need b) according to others who've compared the Mits and the XBR2 side-by-side, the Mits isn't as sharp/detailed. Then I think, I'll go with a Samsung. That's when I remember that the Sammy has the same cloudy panels. And so it goes. This is becoming far more life-absorbing (as another member aptly put it) than it should be. It's a freakin' TV. The hardest part of this purchase should have been paying the thousands. After that, all I should have had to do would have been plug it in and ENJOY!

You have captured the issue masterfully. My new v2500 arrives tomorrow. I am hoping for a relatively cloudless screen. I would not have ordered it from Amazon for $2599 (shipping included) if I had seen this thread prior to my order. A panasonic TH-50PX600U (not the 60U) was only $2499+$200 to ship and this would have been a better purchase, I think. I don't have a PS3 and I won't likely buy a bluray player unless they are about $200.

I mostly watch movies and a few TV shows. I don't watch any sports. If the 46v2500 has whitish mura defects that mar the viewing experience for dark movie scenes, I will send it back, eat the shipping and return charges (if there are any) and purchase the Panasonic TH-50PX600U from jr.com for $2499+$200 to ship.
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post #1442 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 04:17 PM
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I've been lurking on the forum while considering purchasing one of the XBRs. The cloud issue is perplexing. The recent posts suggesting that sony might be comming out with a new XBR reminded me of a conversation I had with a BB sales rep (Manhattan 86th and lex location). He said something about sony comming out with an model that has five HDMI inputs in the near future. However, this was in October. So I am not sure what his idea of near future is. Does anyone know what he might be referring to?
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post #1443 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueHoot View Post

I've been lurking on the forum while considering purchasing one of the XBRs. The cloud issue is perplexing. The recent posts suggesting that sony might be comming out with a new XBR reminded me of a conversation I had with a BB sales rep (Manhattan 86th and lex location). He said something about sony comming out with an model that has five HDMI inputs in the near future. However, this was in October. So I am not sure what his idea of near future is. Does anyone know what he might be referring to?


CES is right around the corner, January 8-11. so if Sony shows a new line of TV's it will be then.
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post #1444 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

CES is right around the corner, January 8-11. so if Sony shows a new line of TV's it will be then.

Sony would have to announce something SIGNIFICANT at CES. They XBR3 is relatively new and something that different (presuming similar price points) would be eating their own line. I don't need 5 HDMI inputs (can't bend that many thick cables anyway) You can't get more than 1080P... Maybe an even bigger LCD screen, but I'm not at all convinced they are going back to the 40s and 46s with new gear. We'll see though.. BTW, wherever they are making the sets now is likely where they'd be making the new ones as well...

Jay S.
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post #1445 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 04:56 PM
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Fry's had the 46" XBR2 for $3099 up until last night.
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post #1446 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 05:25 PM
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Call me crazy, but I'm not going to keep this LCD! Shame on you, SONY!

Details:
- Ordered: 12/08/06 from Amazon.com
- Received: 12/13/06
- Picture taken: 12/13/06, black background, 1920x1080, backlight 100%
- TV Production date: September 2006
- TV Serial #: S01-8001985-H

I'm sticking with my six-month old 42" Sceptre...






I'm sticking with my six-month old 42" Sceptre...
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post #1447 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 05:53 PM
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Ouch. That picture was painful. My v2500 is being delivered tomorrow. I ordered it from Amazon on 12/5. I think I'm in trouble.

I was thinking about refusing it sight unseen at the Detroit shipping hub, but thought I might take a chance on getting a good one. Maybe that was not such a good idea. I don't know if it makes a difference whether I open it and look at it or not as far as their return policy goes. You can't actually talk to anyone at Amazon.

I don't know Amazon's return policy specifics. On another recent product (a playstation game) they wanted to charge me shipping both ways, even though I did not open the product.

I hope I get lucky. I plan to turn it on for a few minutes (while the delivery guys are here) and check the blank screen for mura defects. Unfortunately, they aren't likely to stay for the hour or two that people say it takes for the full horror to develop. If it's black while they are here, I'll let it equilibrate to room temperature, then hook it up and hope for a miracle.
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post #1448 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTaoRunner View Post

You can't actually talk to anyone at Amazon.

Not so. I've had them call me plenty of times for price matches. You sign in, go through customer service click here and there, then you have an option of getting a call immediately or at a certain time. Amazon is one of the best online stores I've dealt with, and I've dealt with a lot, IMHO of course.
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post #1449 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:00 PM
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thetaorunner, please post what the picture looks like when you turn it on. I have a 40v2500 on order also but may cancel in the near future
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post #1450 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTaoRunner View Post


On another recent product (a playstation game) they wanted to charge me shipping both ways, even though I did not open the product.

Why wouldn't they? They shipped it to you, and you had buyers remorse? Why should they pay your shipping if you just don't want it anymore? If anything is defective, Amazon will pay both ways. No, I don't work for Amazon, but have had so many pleasant experiences with them, that I had to sound off.

No disrespect intended, I just don't see your point about downgrading an excellent online store.
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post #1451 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

More from Ken Werner. Very interesting. We're getting somewhere:

---------------------------------------
SNIP

Since the frame time on your LCD-TV is 1/60 second, set your shutter speed
to 1/30 of a second or less to get an image of uniform brightness.

I believe your TV is full HD -- that is, it shows 1920 by 1080 pixels. If
your DSC -W50 is a 5 megapixel or better camera, it should show the effect
very well without introducing other artifacts. (A 2 or 3 MP camera will
also show the effects, but might introduce moire interference effects that
could confuse the issue.)
--------------------------------

Swizzir,
I'm not sure I follow the logic on the 1/30th of a second. Depending on ISO you're likely not to get any image at all. Without any considerationf for the f/stop, the shutter speed makes less sense. I understand the reference to 1/60th of a second as it relates to a video camera (why you see a roll), but not with a still camera.... The second paragraph makes some sense, but we're photographing a pretty irregular object to begin with...

Jay S.
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post #1452 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post

Swizzir,
I'm not sure I follow the logic on the 1/30th of a second. Depending on ISO you're likely not to get any image at all. Without any considerationf for the f/stop, the shutter speed makes less sense. I understand the reference to 1/60th of a second as it relates to a video camera (why you see a roll), but not with a still camera.... The second paragraph makes some sense, but we're photographing a pretty irregular object to begin with...

Jay S.

I didn't write that. It was a reply from an e-mail exchange I was having with Ken Werner.
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post #1453 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

Also please note to him that Samsung owners experienced the exact same problem. I went through 3 Samsung 5296Ds, all exhibiting the issue (third was worse than the first).

tmeader -

You are one of few that had a Samsung 52 and switched to a Sharp 52 so your experience is valuable.

I was wondering how your new panel is, I know you mentioned it had some banding, but how would you describe its performance compared to the Samsung in areas such as:

1. Blacks
2. Black Crush
3. Color Rendition
4. Punchiness of a bright image (say DiscoveryHD)
5. Artifacts
6. Perceived build quality
7. Backlight uniformity
8. Overall viewing experience

I feel the Samsung does well on 4,5,6, and 3 in Movie mode and 8 in everyday scenes (not dark material).
Thanks.
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post #1454 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jefer View Post

Not so. I've had them call me plenty of times for price matches. You sign in, go through customer service click here and there, then you have an option of getting a call immediately or at a certain time. Amazon is one of the best online stores I've dealt with, and I've dealt with a lot, IMHO of course.

The reason I brought up the return issue with Amazon was in regards to possibly refusing to even take delivery of the Sony v2500. I agree with you on the shipping issue with the game. I ended up keeping the game. My point was that if I refuse the Sony sight unseen, it looks like buyer's remorse, when it is really not wanting to open the box if that increases my return costs on a known defective product. At this point Amazon has only invested "free shipping" (worth about $130.00).

I've always had good luck with Amazon. Consumer reports ranked them in the top five online stores. This is a unique situation as many people think the folks returning these sets are either just picky or unable to accept the limitations of larger lcd panels. I happen to think that there is/was a quality control issue on these sets and I don't want to pay $2600 for a set with noticeable light leakage splotches on the screen. By the way, I tried that customer service callback button on Amazon twice to check on my options with this situation and it malfunctioned and I gave up. Perhaps I''ll try it again.
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post #1455 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You do know that you can call Amazon direct don't you? Most people don't know that, as they don't publish their number anywher except here:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/csr.html

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1456 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I'm dedicated mixed with a bit of luck. Thanks for the your vote though.


I second that vote. Thanks, man, for all your help! You are the wind beneath my wings! Did you ever know that you're my heeeeerrrroooo!!!

GT: irunnoft
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post #1457 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

Hmmm.....so which one of the Sharps will give me 1080P with no overscan via HDMI, and VGA/DVI....dangit...just realized that the Sharps had the banding problem.


DOH!!! THERE GOES PLAN E!!! Ok, I just booked a three day, two night cruise to Sandals resort for myself and my TV. We're going to try face down on the beach, face down in a hammock, and pina coladas in the hot tub! If that doesn't de-stress this thing, I guess I'll be arrested for an unnatural relationship with a machine. Too bad it isn't a cylon!!

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post #1458 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I didn't write that. It was a reply from an e-mail exchange I was having with Ken Werner.

Swizzir,
Sorry... I know you didn't write it.. just indicating I don't understand the logic behind the statement he made....

Jay S.
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post #1459 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

DOH!!! THERE GOES PLAN E!!! Ok, I just booked a three day, two night cruise to Sandals resort for myself and my TV. We're going to try face down on the beach, face down in a hammock, and pina coladas in the hot tub! If that doesn't de-stress this thing, I guess I'll be arrested for an unnatural relationship with a machine. Too bad it isn't a cylon!!

Irunnoft,
TOOOO funny... I take it a night in bed with you didn't help? (Where is this thread going! .... I'm not sure about the hot tub part... you may find a few more things wrong than just clouds... Seriously for a minute, did u notice any change?

Jay S.
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post #1460 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sonyxbr1980 View Post

Ok guys so it's me again your Best Buy employee. So I went to work today and saw a yellow tag on the 40xbr2 which means to use that we will not be selling it any more and the price is lower than normal so we can move the units. I also would like to say if you guys have any questions about most of these tv's or any at the store ask me and I will help you out.


I also have a question for you guy I want to get the pioneer plasma that is 720P now will that do 1080 i the same way a 1080p does 1080i ...... let me know cause that might be my next TV


I've got a question for you since you work at Best Buy. I was just in my local BB (the place where I bought my 40xbr2) and I couldn't get behind the store's model to see the production date, but it looked good. They did, however, have a 46" XBR2 on an end cap and then one that, at one time I believe, was an open box special. Both of those 46" XBR2s were made in July. I felt like I'd found the golden ticket in a Wonka Bar!

My question is this, the guy working the TV section didn't know if he could sell the open box TV. It was no longer listed as an open box. It had an ACTIVE listing in the computer. Bottom line, I've got to call and talk to a manager tomorrow to see if I can swap out. So what's the deal with floor models at BB? When CAN people buy them? The salesman told me, if I understood him correctly, that they RENT these TV's from manufacturers? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

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post #1461 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:35 PM
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I tried the online call thing with Amazon to see if it makes a difference if I open the set and "try it". I did get someone, just now. They had a very thick accent but it seems they will accept returns on defective products, including HDTV's. I will confirm this in the AM with the 1-800 number just posted.

I have the webpage of Vanns.com tuned to the Panasonic TH-50PX600U with free shipping and a free Harmony Universal remote (all for $2499) tuned in, just in case I get a lemon.

Some of you all are funny. I may try to "destress" my panel via the "Gary method" if it has clouds before I give up on it as I do think if you get a good set, it's a keeper. The posts referring to thermal expansion causing the clouding to worsen worry me however. It brings up the issue of returning or worsening clouds at a later date. Also, the ideas referring to turning down the backlight and other set adjustments to "cover up" the issue don't give me warm fuzzies either.

Wish me luck. Perhaps I'll get a November build and the rumors that Sony is aware of and fixing it's QA issues on these sets will turn out to be true.
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post #1462 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

When CAN people buy them? The salesman told me, if I understood him correctly, that they RENT these TV's from manufacturers? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Once I explained the clouding issues I had with 2 sets to Best Buy, which the Magnolia supervisor totally agreed with me and couldn't believe Sony was selling these sets with this problem, I told them I noticed that the floor model they had was a July build, and that I would only be interested in either a possible new run of November builds or buying the floor model. They didn't have new stock, so they gladly sold me the floor model. I smiled like the Grinch when he was plotting to spoil the Who's Xmas! They are now using my October set as the new floor model.

My July set is essentially cloud free. If they exist, they are extremely faint and do not detract from viewing like the other two sets did. I'm trying to get better pictures of my screen for the thread.
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post #1463 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 07:51 PM
 
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Well, as of today, I am officially out of the XBR game. I had enough. Returned my XBR3 this afternoon and picked up the Pioneer 5070/1 tonight. I feel as though a massive weight has been lifted and I am no longer sick about my purchase. Add to that that I got the Pioneer for an absolute steal and I feel better still. I wish you guys the best of luck and I'll keep checking just to see what shakes out because I have a morbid curiousity. But for me, it was time to start enjoying my toys rather than worrying about them. Best of luck everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

I've got a question for you since you work at Best Buy. I was just in my local BB (the place where I bought my 40xbr2) and I couldn't get behind the store's model to see the production date, but it looked good. They did, however, have a 46" XBR2 on an end cap and then one that, at one time I believe, was an open box special. Both of those 46" XBR2s were made in July. I felt like I'd found the golden ticket in a Wonka Bar!

My question is this, the guy working the TV section didn't know if he could sell the open box TV. It was no longer listed as an open box. It had an ACTIVE listing in the computer. Bottom line, I've got to call and talk to a manager tomorrow to see if I can swap out. So what's the deal with floor models at BB? When CAN people buy them? The salesman told me, if I understood him correctly, that they RENT these TV's from manufacturers? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

As long as a product is still actively being sold at BB, they cannot sell you a floor model. At least they aren't supposed to. I wanted to swap out for a July set they had on the wall but was told I couldn't do it since they still receive shipments of that particular product. He called it an "active SKU." No active SKU may be sold unless it is new, from what I was told.
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post #1464 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 08:00 PM
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I don't believe you people! I would understand going through three Westinghouse 42" LCDs to find one with less banding, but hey ... what did I expect, it's a JUNK BRAND - WESTINGHOUSE! But going through SONYs to find one more or less acceptable - THANK YOU, BUT NO! At SONY PRICE - I WILL EXPECT to have a VERY GOOD set the very first time, or NO GO for Sony!

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Once I explained the clouding issues I had with 2 sets to Best Buy, which the Magnolia supervisor totally agreed with me and couldn't believe Sony was selling these sets with this problem, I told them I noticed that the floor model they had was a July build, and that I would only be interested in either a possible new run of November builds or buying the floor model. They didn't have new stock, so they gladly sold me the floor model. I smiled like the Grinch when he was plotting to spoil the Who's Xmas! They are now using my October set as the new floor model.

My July set is essentially cloud free. If they exist, they are extremely faint and do not detract from viewing like the other two sets did. I'm trying to get better pictures of my screen for the thread.

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post #1465 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 08:13 PM
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One shot for me too Fedex2go. If my v2500 has mura defects that interfere with my viewing, it goes back, and I go plasma. I can't imagine spending XBR money and getting defective Samdung (pun intended) panels, let alone troubles like this at my lower V2500 price point.

The Panasonic TH-50PX600U is worth a look for those on the fence. It's in the same price range and is highly rated at CNET and Consumer's Report (but so are the Sony Bravia series). It has a more robust sound system (31W) with a small "subwoofer". My wife doesn't want a surround system in our secondary viewing area, so I have to have decent sound from the TV.

The difference between 760p and 1080P will not keep me in the Sony LCD panel switchout game. Who has time for that? It must be single guys with no kids. Well, I'm off to sleep....dreaming of a cloudless day tomorrow.
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post #1466 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 08:14 PM
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I figured out a longer exposure setting on my Canon digital (to ISO 50) to take more pictures of my July Best Buy floor model. My hand was a little shaky, so forgive the blurriness, but as you can see with or without program material (the scene is from a Tivo'd over the air antenna HD signal of the new show Daybreak), the backlighting appears very even. If there is clouding, it is faint enough for me not to even notice. My backlight is set to 2, Light Sensor is Off, Power Saving is Off, Brightness is around 50
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post #1467 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 08:49 PM
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Well I just did my part in contributing to the Cnet review, posting a Digg and sending Consumer Reports an email (I'm a subscriber). Unfortunately I posted a very positive Circuit City review a month ago when I received my set and didn't know of the problem yet . I urge the rest of you to make this issue known publicly. The Cnet rating has already dropped from 9.2 to 7.4 mostly because of AVS members. Thank you to those that made the effort. The rest of you please speak up.
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post #1468 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 09:03 PM
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Here is a better picture of my tv. I did get an event # from sony,the tech was going to come to inspect my set,but called back after talking to sony tech support to tell me that my set was fine and gave me the whole "because of the increased brightness Etc" BS word for word from the sony script.
So i must decide to live with it or not.The deal is I really like the PQ,on the right feed it is stunning.I am also thinking that the squeaky wheel gets the grease,and sony will eventually break down and replace some of these.Stay Squeaky

Who are you going to believe,me or your lying eyes?
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post #1469 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 09:21 PM
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[quote=Irunnoft]I've got a question for you since you work at Best Buy. I was just in my local BB (the place where I bought my 40xbr2) and I couldn't get behind the store's model to see the production date, but it looked good. They did, however, have a 46" XBR2 on an end cap and then one that, at one time I believe, was an open box special. Both of those 46" XBR2s were made in July. I felt like I'd found the golden ticket in a Wonka Bar!

Well they act funny about selling the display ...... but trust me they can do it just tell the manager that you want a swap out and i mean he can take the new one from the back and use that as a display just make sure you press the issue that if he cant give you that one u will return the tv and buy some where else...... I hope this helps u out let me know how it goes?
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post #1470 of 9118 Old 12-13-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ransome View Post

I did get an event # from sony,the tech was going to come to inspect my set,but called back after talking to sony tech support to tell me that my set was fine and gave me the whole "because of the increased brightness Etc" BS word for word from the sony script.

That irks me to no end. Keep it up everyone. Post where ever you can. E-mail who ever you can. I found one of my best contacts about the issue so far by just going to Google and doing a search for "LCD experts." I found the names of two professionals in the industry and heard back from both of them.

These things take time but in the end this issue will be fixed.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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