Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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LCD Flat Panel Displays > Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread
wemmington's Avatar wemmington 06:01 PM 11-21-2006
I will let you guys know how it turns out. But if they send a replacement and its not right I will send it back and tell them to keep shipping them until its right. I can deal with the clouds for a few weeks if I have to. I still love the tv and as long as I get one without the clouding issue in the next month im a happy man. I have to say sony having someone bring me a new tv and set it up for me really impressed me. I'll post some pics of my current xbr2 and the new one next week.

sauron256's Avatar sauron256 06:31 PM 11-21-2006
This isn't a Sony XBR2, but it's the same cloudy problem on the Samsung LNS4695 set I just brought home today. The Sony and Samsungs share the same glass, and apparently, the same problems.




OhioLefty's Avatar OhioLefty 06:56 PM 11-21-2006
I'm curious, how did you get your XBR2/3 home? I'm not saying that had anything to do with the clouding issue but I know with my set (KDL-46XBR3 - August 2006) it was (to the best of everone's knowledge) never on its' side. The store I bought mine from is a local high-end audio/video shop that gets their Sony shipments direct from Sony and see the sets come off the truck. A friend and I picked up the set the day it came in and took it directly home and set it up. The two of us are so particular that this set was probably as close to "white glove" treatment as you can get. My set is defect free and is near perfect as far as I can tell. Just throwing something out there as a possibilty. I played golf with a guy that works at Circuit City and he said he's embarrassed to say how some of the other guys unload trucks and move stuff around in the back. We talked about this issue with the Sony XBRs and he said he only knows of one returned to his store but it was because the customer changed his mind. Maybe most people aren't as discriminating or don't know there is problem and would return sets if they knew about this thread. I know not everyone has access to a truck or a means to keep the set vertical at all times and was just curious how many with problems had to lay their set down to get it home?

Later...
sauron256's Avatar sauron256 08:25 PM 11-21-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post

I'm curious, how did you get your XBR2/3 home? I'm not saying that had anything to do with the clouding issue but I know with my set (KDL-46XBR3 - August 2006) it was (to the best of everone's knowledge) never on its' side.

I know that my two XBRs were delivered by pick-up truck and were not put on their side for at least the trip to my home. However, I can't vouch for how CC unloads their shipments.
swizzir's Avatar swizzir 08:47 PM 11-21-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post

I'm curious, how did you get your XBR2/3 home?

This could lead to interesting results so I will chime in. To get my cloudy 46XBR2 home I borrowed my neighbors Jeep. Placed it on its side in the back as there wasn't enough room to get it in standing up. I'd say it was on its side for about 20 minutes. Wether or not it had never been on its side before I can't say. Also I don't know which side (panel or back) was down while it was in transport.
harshw's Avatar harshw 04:43 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

This could lead to interesting results so I will chime in. To get my cloudy 46XBR2 home I borrowed my neighbors Jeep. Placed it on its side in the back as there wasn't enough room to get it in standing up. I'd say it was on its side for about 20 minutes. Wether or not it had never been on its side before I can't say. Also I don't know which side (panel or back) was down while it was in transport.

I have a 46W2000 - do not know what Sony panel that corresponds to across the Atlantic, perhaps 46V2500 ? I have the exact same problems with backlight bleeding.

Over here in the UK, customer service is non existent unless you buy it from a "high street" retailer who then proceeds to charge you a hefty premium. My retailer told me that he had never heard of backlight bleeding and his engineer told me that such a thing 'does not exist' or else HE would have heard of it and he's 'been in the business'

When I spoke to Sony Customer Service, the person on the other end admitted that they had customers complain about these same problems, but he did not know what Sony was doing about it. The only advice he could offer was to try and get a replacement from my retailer. Well, I expect my replacement unit this week. On the other hand, reading through the thread I suppose this one will have the backlight issue as well.

What I am curious about is: if laying the panel on its side cures the backlight issue, why would laying the panel on its side cause the uneven backlight in the first place ?
sauron256's Avatar sauron256 07:17 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by harshw View Post

What I am curious about is: if laying the panel on its side cures the backlight issue, why would laying the panel on its side cause the uneven backlight in the first place ?

Laying the panel on its face only reduces the intensity of the problem. However, with these Sony panels, it does not cure it.

I think this contradiction you're seeing in the dicussion is because the owners of these panels (myself included) are starting to feel desperate and are willing to test anything at this point in order to either fix this problem or prevent it from happening.
kontai69's Avatar kontai69 07:19 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

This could lead to interesting results so I will chime in. To get my cloudy 46XBR2 home I borrowed my neighbors Jeep. Placed it on its side in the back as there wasn't enough room to get it in standing up. I'd say it was on its side for about 20 minutes. Wether or not it had never been on its side before I can't say. Also I don't know which side (panel or back) was down while it was in transport.

Another thing to consider is whether the sets are being transported/handled by one person or was someone assisting?

As I suggested in post #186, I can imagine if a heavy and large TV was picked up out of the box and placed on the stand by one person, it may be subjected to alot more"stress" than if two people were to do it. Even with my 32" LCD, the manual says "Carrying the TV requires at least two people." They suggest two people pick up/carry the set by the bottom corners of the bezel on each side. Unless that one person has the armspan and strength of Shaq, this will be difficult for many to do by themselves.

Anyways, just throwing around some ideas.

Sauron256,
Those are the best and clearest pics showing the cloudy defect that I have seen. The "cloud doubters" seem to be pretty quiet as of late.
OhioLefty's Avatar OhioLefty 07:44 AM 11-22-2006
harshw,

If I remember correctly, the way my KDL-46XBR3 was packaged it was mostly supported on the four corners (no vertical stress) and not directly on the front of the panel. If the box were to be placed on its' side the panel may be subjected to some stress because only the four corners are directly supported. Some have been able to reduce some clouding by laying the panel flat (corners are not supported) and evenly on a firm surface and to some extent "de-stressing" the panel.

I did have help from another person lifting my set from the box and we did lift only from the bottom edges and using great care not to put any stress on the panel at all.

Later...
seattlite's Avatar seattlite 08:31 AM 11-22-2006
I also have the clouding problem, not that severe, but noticeable. I did buy it at Circuit City and worked out a deal to get their Protection Plan. My 30 day window is till Dec 17th. I've tested the panel for dead/stuck pixels and all 2,073,600 pixels are perfect. So now the question.

Do I go and return/exchange the panel and risk getting a less perfect panel, or do I wait a few months and either envoke the Sony warranty or the Protection Plan to either fix or get a replacement panel?

I think what bugs me more about the panel is its narrower viewing angle compared to my old PDP. That in itself might make me return the panel.
FerretHunter's Avatar FerretHunter 09:10 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post

Mine must be the fastest case of being "in the club" and out of it.

I have you beat. I received the 46XBR2 at around 3 pm. After setting it up, it got dark in my basement. I switched to an input with no signal. I saw the cloudy blacks. It was very obvious, disturbingly so. I was sickened and disgusted. I packed it up and returned it to the Sony Store at 7 pm that same day.

For an XBR line to have this blatant problem, it was unacceptable to me. And it wasn't exactly cheap. If it were a Westinghouse or Insignia, I could understand. But a Sony XBR?

The bafoons at the store asked me to stick around and show them the problem. I decided to do so. They hooked it up in the bright showroom and were scratching their heads, as the uneven backlighting couldn't be seen. I informed the geniuses that what they were seeing in a brightly lit showroom with no signal into an input was simply the black color of the screen itself, not the picture.

They took it into their dark room. Voila! Two of the sales guys who were genuinely interested in learning what I was talking about acknowledged the problem and were curious why it did so. A couple of other sales guys who couldn't care less about quality were making comments like "so what's wrong with it?", or "I don't see any problem". Needless to say, I won't be shopping at that store again.

I subsequently purchased a Pioneer 5070 plasma. It absolutely, unequivocally destroys the XBR2 and the SXRD I had before that. It isn't even close. I could not be happier with the picture quality I am enjoying.
tome's Avatar tome 09:31 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerretHunter View Post

I have you beat. I received the 46XBR2 at around 3 pm. After setting it up, it got dark in my basement. I switched to an input with no signal. I saw the cloudy blacks. It was very obvious, disturbingly so. I was sickened and disgusted. I packed it up and returned it to the Sony Store at 7 pm that same day.

I concede.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerretHunter View Post

I subsequently purchased a Pioneer 5070 plasma. It absolutely, unequivocally destroys the XBR2 or the SXRD I had before that. It isn't even close. I could not be happier with the picture quality I am enjoying.

I too am considering the 5070. However, the reflections/glare from the glass is what is keeping me away. I really like the Pioneer PQ, etc but I have lots of windows in the room where I will put the tv. I put a glass picture frame on the wall where the tv will go and the reflections are pretty annoying. So, I really want a LCD.

I guess I am now just waiting and watching....

-Tom
RLampke's Avatar RLampke 09:54 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post

I concede.



I too am considering the 5070. However, the reflections/glare from the glass is what is keeping me away. I really like the Pioneer PQ, etc but I have lots of windows in the room where I will put the tv. I put a glass picture frame on the wall where the tv will go and the reflections are pretty annoying. So, I really want a LCD.

I guess I am now just waiting and watching....

-Tom

+1 - I would have purchased a Pio Elite Plasma as well, but I do not have light control in the room where the panel is sitting - so that negates any gain this panel has over the XBR3, especially in regards to black levels. With 100% light control, then I would agree that this Pio is better than the XBR3.
sauron256's Avatar sauron256 10:09 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

Another thing to consider is whether the sets are being transported/handled by one person or was someone assisting?

As I suggested in post #186, I can imagine if a heavy and large TV was picked up out of the box and placed on the stand by one person, it may be subjected to alot more"stress" than if two people were to do it. Even with my 32" LCD, the manual says "Carrying the TV requires at least two people." They suggest two people pick up/carry the set by the bottom corners of the bezel on each side. Unless that one person has the armspan and strength of Shaq, this will be difficult for many to do by themselves.

All three of my sets were deliverd and installed by two man teams. These 46 inchers are just too large and awkward for one person.
gr0m1t's Avatar gr0m1t 10:39 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post

I'm curious, how did you get your XBR2/3 home? I'm not saying that had anything to do with the clouding issue but I know with my set (KDL-46XBR3 - August 2006) it was (to the best of everone's knowledge) never on its' side.

while i think it's an interesting theory, i'm not sure it is one that we could really prove/disprove. i'm not sure everyone can know how it was transported from the manufacturer in Mexico, to the warehouse, and then to the retailer. i'm guessing that many of the sets were on more than one truck and who knows how they were handled. it just seems like too many variables could be involved.

i think this may just be another datapoint that shows that August panels are more likely not to show the problem. (i think there's only been one person early on who had an August panel with this problem).
sauron256's Avatar sauron256 11:20 AM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr0m1t View Post

i think this may just be another datapoint that shows that August panels are more likely not to show the problem. (i think there's only been one person early on who had an August panel with this problem).

My second set was built in August with the cloudiness - but fairly minor compared to the ones built in Sept. and Oct.
km106's Avatar km106 03:13 PM 11-22-2006
I purchased my 46XBR2 from BB last week (manufactured October 2006) and noticed the clouds that night while switching inputs. The next day I found this thread and then spent the next few days deciding whether or not I could live with the clouds. Today I decided that I could not, and returned the set. The set also had a stuck pixel in the upper left corner of the screen, but I could have lived with that if it weren't for the clouds. When I returned the set I used the stuck pixel as the reason, which was a good thing because I had to explain to their expert what a stuck pixel was; I couldn't imagine trying to explain the clouds to him. They seemed very reluctant to accept the return, saying that nobody every returns a Sony, but they did finally give me a full refund. I really loved the set and will probably get another one once they work out the manufacturing and or design problems. I've attached a picture of my clouds.
swizzir's Avatar swizzir 03:30 PM 11-22-2006
My replacement 46XBR2 is at my local Sony service center. They're going to bring it over Friday afternoon. I'll of course let everyone know how the replacement set looks. I'm also hoping that someone that knows the technology will be participating in the delivery so I can show him in person the problem and get an opinion. More to come.
likev's Avatar likev 04:43 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

My replacement 46XBR2 is at my local Sony service center. They're going to bring it over Friday afternoon. I'll of course let everyone know how the replacement set looks. I'm also hoping that someone that knows the technology will be participating in the delivery so I can show him in person the problem and get an opinion. More to come.

I found this problem is only noticable when the TV has warmed up for more than 30-45 minutes. Otherwise the screen is pretty much dark and even as it should be.

Let us know how your replacement looks after it has been warmed up. Maybe you can sit down and have a drink with the Sony tech when he comes over with your replacement to see if the clouds show up after 45minutes.
Stogie1020's Avatar Stogie1020 04:52 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauron256 View Post

Stogie1020: My advice is to stay away from these sets until Sony and Samsung acknowledge this issue. I wouldn't settle for anything short of a perfectly uniform screen for the price they charge for either of these sets.

Though, now that I have had the Samsung in as well as the Sony, I would tell you to spend the extra bucks to get the Sony as the picture quality as well as the other electronics seem to be superior on the Sony. PQ is by far better with the Sony.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Any thoughts on this being a regional/climate issue? Is this mainly occurring where there is high humidity? Low temps?
Amel's Avatar Amel 05:04 PM 11-22-2006
No clouding on my sammy 4092D

maybe this is an issue with the "p" sets
raymondj's Avatar raymondj 05:53 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stogie1020 View Post

Thanks for the thoughts.

Any thoughts on this being a regional/climate issue? Is this mainly occurring where there is high humidity? Low temps?

I don't think so because I live in LA and still has serious cloudy screen on my XBR2.
sauron256's Avatar sauron256 06:54 PM 11-22-2006
Well, call me too stubborn to learn, but I got my third XBR2 set home today and guess what... Cloudy, cloudy! Another one built in October.

Though, I'm wondering how the handling of these sets off the docks have any effect on the formation of the clouds. The reason I bring this up is that the guy who brought all three of my XBR2 sets up from the underground warehouse at CC had a very casual attitude about how these large panels should be handled. He kept telling me that I could bring it home on its side w/o a problem. He claims to have moved hundreds of these panels on their sides without having a problem.

You have to wonder if one idiot could be the cause of all my cloudiness issues. He may have screwed up all the large flat panels at this CC for all I know.
wtfer's Avatar wtfer 07:02 PM 11-22-2006
I exteremly doubt it has anything to do with the way the TV is handlied.

I had tons of LCD's that I bought that I had facing down/up side ways in box.
Out of the box I flipped them over had they facing down/layed them facing up etc, non of that ever produced any clouds


I also tested my Vizio facing down for 18 minutes, NOTHING
not even a little improvement

I am again facing it down on the floor with the actual TV being turned ON, I see if it makes any difference.
jktrading's Avatar jktrading 08:18 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauron256 View Post

Well, call me too stubborn to learn, but I got my third XBR2 set home today and guess what... Cloudy, cloudy! Another one built in October.

Though, I'm wondering how the handling of these sets off the docks have any effect on the formation of the clouds. The reason I bring this up is that the guy who brought all three of my XBR2 sets up from the underground warehouse at CC had a very casual attitude about how these large panels should be handled. He kept telling me that I could bring it home on its side w/o a problem. He claims to have moved hundreds of these panels on their sides without having a problem.

You have to wonder if one idiot could be the cause of all my cloudiness issues. He may have screwed up all the large flat panels at this CC for all I know.

You're kidding. Just how picky are you? Getting all these fabulous HD TV's and being so picky about seeing "clouds," on a dark screen. I would be telling you to hit the road if you were my customer.

Why even get a high end TV? It's obvious something will be wrong with all these sets you get since nothings perfect. No one at a dock did anything to your TV, it's all in your head man. There will be something else with the next one you get as well, no matter what the brand I'll bet.
zswman's Avatar zswman 10:01 PM 11-22-2006
jktrading: read the rest of the thread entries and look at the posted pics. I don't know what you have or what you'd accept - but these people have a legitimate complaint. Unless you have something to add - leave.
jktrading's Avatar jktrading 10:36 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by zswman View Post

jktrading: read the rest of the thread entries and look at the posted pics. I don't know what you have or what you'd accept - but these people have a legitimate complaint. Unless you have something to add - leave.

My opinion is simply that, an opinion. If you don't agree, then don't agree. I did add to the discussion by saying that this is a completely blown out of proportion issue, and that it is only a problem, because people are looking for a problem. How much do you want to bet that these people with the "clouding" issue, will find another issue down the road with whatever they get? Maybe try not to be so rude to another person who happens to have a differing opinion than you. That's what these boards are for.
wtfer's Avatar wtfer 10:37 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jktrading View Post

You're kidding. Just how picky are you? Getting all these fabulous HD TV's and being so picky about seeing "clouds," on a dark screen. I would be telling you to hit the road if you were my customer.

Why even get a high end TV? It's obvious something will be wrong with all these sets you get since nothings perfect. No one at a dock did anything to your TV, it's all in your head man. There will be something else with the next one you get as well, no matter what the brand I'll bet.


What the hell are you talking about?
Have you even read any of the 200 post before his?
does THIS look like nitpicking to you:


fabulous HD TV's my ass
more like rushed out the door crap
paulwu's Avatar paulwu 11:11 PM 11-22-2006
I am new to this forum. Just ordered my 46XBR3 today and will be delivered in about a week. I will post for the production date and if any problem later on. Two quick questions:
IS the 46XBR3 already equipped with DVI OR HDMI WITH HDCP? If I have choice should I request to get my TV for the porduction date AUG 2006 better? Thanks everyone for good comments and post!
jktrading's Avatar jktrading 11:34 PM 11-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

What the hell are you talking about?
Have you even read any of the 200 post before his?
does THIS look like nitpicking to you:


fabulous HD TV's my ass
more like rushed out the door crap

Yep, that one is messed up, I concur. Every other photo I have seen (except yours) = nitpicking. You cannot be stuck with that Vizio? Say it isn't so? Exchango, facto.
Tags: Sony Bravia S Series Kdl 40s2010 40 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia W Series Kdl 46w5100 46 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 52xbr4 52 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv
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