Game Consoles Not "Compatible" With Some LCDs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so you might remember my post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=32d40u

Ok, so skip ahead to last week, when Sharp finally got me in touch with a repairman. I brought my tv to them, and a week later (Monday of this week), the guy calls me back and says nothing is wrong with my tv.

If you remember my original post, those who looked at the pictures said there was def. something wrong with my tv. So I questioned what made him think it was ok.

He said he plugged in a DVD player and checked out HDTV channels and said there was no ghosting. I explained to him that, while it's barely noticable on those types of things, the biggest problem was with gaming and my Xbox 360 and PS2.

He then told me that neither of those use HD signals, only the PS3 does, so I should expect ghosting.

I then told him no, the 360 does use HD, and i'm still getting bad ghosting.

He then tells me that some TVs aren't compatible with certain game consoles.

Any truth to that? I mean, are you telling me that a $1000 TV from Sharp isn't compatible with a year old gaming system? I called Sharp and asked and...well...they didn't give me a straight answer.

Am I getting dicked around or what?
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post #2 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 08:24 PM
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You are getting smoke blown up your a$$.

You have tried several different resolutions to see if it affected the interlaced and non-interlaced HD video processing.

Eric

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced" - corollary to Clark's Third Law
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post #3 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I've tried 720P, 1080I, and 420P.
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post #4 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone else want to weigh in on this?
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post #5 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 10:42 PM
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What cables? Is this some cheap component set? Also, have you tried any other HD source of your own like a computer, or another buddies HD game console?
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post #6 of 75 Old 11-29-2006, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The cables are the ones that came with the Xbox 360. I don't really have anything else that puts out an HD signal. There aren't any PC inputs on the TV, so I can't test that...and I never tried anyone elses game system, but I did try their cables and it was the same thing.
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post #7 of 75 Old 11-30-2006, 12:31 AM
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Maybe try VGA or dvi?

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post #8 of 75 Old 11-30-2006, 01:48 AM
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one thing to make sure of is that it isn't your Xbox that not displaying HD correctly and not the TV. If you know anyone that has an HDTV take it over there and see how their set handles it. First I would just try new cables if you haven't. Try to start with the cheapest thing and move up when your trying to diagnose what's wrong with a complicated rig. I've leraned that from playing guitar for 12 years :)
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post #9 of 75 Old 12-04-2006, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I've tried new cables, and a different xbox and there's still noticble ghosting. I've tried my Xbox on a Toshiba LCD and it did the same thing.

I'm just majorly confused. I mean...after reading reviews about my LCD and others, many people say they have absolutely ZERO ghosting, and I just find that very hard to believe.

Look my model up on newegg. There, I wrote a review for the set, and the guy who writes one after me says he has zero ghosting and doesn't know what i'm talking about.

Honestly though, I can live with it. It's really bad at first, but after the set gets heated up a bit, it's not bad at all. I just wish it were perfect.
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post #10 of 75 Old 12-04-2006, 11:29 PM
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It's probably you. :p Some people are very sensitive to ghosting on LCDs while other's never notice it at all just like some people see a rainbox effect on DLPs but other's don't or some see the screen door effect
on a tv while other's never notice it no matter how close they are to the tv.
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post #11 of 75 Old 12-04-2006, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe it is me. I'll post another video and maybe that'll confirm if i'm crazy or not.

Do plasmas have a better response time? Maybe that'll be my next TV.
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post #12 of 75 Old 12-04-2006, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temporaryscars
Do plasmas have a better response time? Maybe that'll be my next TV.
Yes, much better. Ghosting is almost never a problem on plasmas but there is the glare problem and temporary image retention.
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post #13 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeebus cripes. Maybe I should have just stuck with my CRT.

I dunno about the video. When I take it with the digital camera, it seems to look worse than it actually is because my camera only runs at 30fps.

But, i'll see what I can do.
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post #14 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, here's a video of me just playing normally, and this is after the tv has been on for quite some time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm2QZBkEsIw
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post #15 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 12:21 PM
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The video is far to compressed to distinguish ghosting from compression artifacts unfortunatly.

Eric

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced" - corollary to Clark's Third Law
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post #16 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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If you click the one box to make the video smaller, you might be able to make it out better. Try this one. Notice the brown smudge that seems to appear when I move?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSaAOZ2vzCk
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post #17 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Uploaded the first movie at googlevideo. On the drop down menu on the play, select "original size." Maybe that'll help.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70314877372169
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post #18 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 01:40 PM
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The samsung / 360 combo is awesome. I don't know if the Hitachi does 1080p over component (or 1080i... I assume it does). I know the Hitachi does not have VGA which pretty much sucks. Sounds like you are getting smoke blown up your bum. Check out some of the other xbox 360 / hitachi posts through search.
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post #19 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Umm...ok...not sure what that has to do with this.
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post #20 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Sooo...is this just too impossible to solve?
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post #21 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 02:47 PM
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You could always get a VPO 50 box if it you are really sensitive to ghosting.
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post #22 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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A what?
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post #23 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
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Wow...that looks like crap. :eek:
Where are your LCD buddies now, eh? ;)

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post #24 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 03:19 PM
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Elemental1... I know you are trying to be funny, but it's not when someone just realizes how screwed they are.

I am working on a video test for LCD to determine the REAL refresh rate so that people can see how bad these sets are.

Eric

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced" - corollary to Clark's Third Law
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post #25 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmoon
Elemental1... I know you are trying to be funny, but it's not when someone just realizes how screwed they are.

I am working on a video test for LCD to determine the REAL refresh rate so that people can see how bad these sets are.
Actually I was being serious and wondering where all those pro LCD guys are when he is asking what is going on. :confused:

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post #26 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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So it's supposed to be this way and I should stop looking for a solution?

If the 360 were to somehow make it so I could connect it through HDMI, would that solve the problem or would it not make a difference?
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post #27 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temporaryscars
Sooo...is this just too impossible to solve?
If I'm seeing this correctly, there are two problems: lots of edge artifacts (that are probably the result of excessive edge enhancement, either by the TV or the game system) and a trail behind the firing arm (like the mouse trails you can set in MS Windows). You might be able to fix the former by turning your TV's sharpness setting to zero (where it belongs anyway), this might even make the latter less obvious, but ideally you shouldn't have these trails at all. It is not a matter of the TV refresh rate being too slow, 8ms should be plenty fast for these to not exist. For some reason, either your Xbox is not generating enough intermediate images, or your TV is not rendering them.
This looks a little like what happens if you put a fan spinning at a multipe of 24fps in front of a movie screen - perhaps another possibility is that the TV refresh rate and the game render rate are some multiple of one another which causes this.

You might drop a note to the head of Sharp customer service, and quote what the authorized repair guy claimed about compatibility. I'm sure Sharp would be delighted to hear that their repair guys are blowing off customers with the assertions that their premier TVs are not compatible with Xbox and PS3! - DR
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post #28 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0s
It is not a matter of the TV refresh rate being too slow, 8ms should be plenty fast for these to not exist.
LOL, you're funny. Do you actually believe everything that the marketing department comes up with?

Refresh rates of LCD panels are notorious for being optimistic ( on a good day ) and there is no standard for measurement. I found out the hard way.

Eric

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post #29 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0s
If I'm seeing this correctly, there are two problems: lots of edge artifacts (that are probably the result of excessive edge enhancement, either by the TV or the game system) and a trail behind the firing arm (like the mouse trails you can set in MS Windows). You might be able to fix the former by turning your TV's sharpness setting to zero (where it belongs anyway), this might even make the latter less obvious, but ideally you shouldn't have these trails at all. It is not a matter of the TV refresh rate being too slow, 8ms should be plenty fast for these to not exist. For some reason, either your Xbox is not generating enough intermediate images, or your TV is not rendering them.
This looks a little like what happens if you put a fan spinning at a multipe of 24fps in front of a movie screen - perhaps another possibility is that the TV refresh rate and the game render rate are some multiple of one another which causes this.

You might drop a note to the head of Sharp customer service, and quote what the authorized repair guy claimed about compatibility. I'm sure Sharp would be delighted to hear that their repair guys are blowing off customers with the assertions that their premier TVs are not compatible with Xbox and PS3! - DR
Ah, ok. I'll try turning the sharpness down. Should it really be at 0? Won't the picture be dull instead of crisp? I've got mine set about half way.

I'd call sharp and tell them about it, only i've tested this on other LCDs and I get the same results. So I don't know if I can say it's a problem with my TV, or just LCDS in general.
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post #30 of 75 Old 12-05-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1
Actually I was being serious and wondering where all those pro LCD guys are when he is asking what is going on. :confused:
Oh, I'm still here. I've got a Sammy LN-S4051D LCD connected via component to my Xbox 360, and I don't see any ghosting at all. And I'm a pretty avid Halo 2 player, and played for the last 2 years on a CRT, so I'd notice a difference if there was one.

I've seen Scar's screenshots, and they would be unacceptable to me. There's no way that's normal for any recent LCD. I think there's something defective with his set.
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