Are there Sweet Spots with Plasma/LCD Screens? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DeathtoToasters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, I have been reading through the forums and online and am confused about something.

When I looked at the DLP over at CC the color was just amazing, but once I stepped out of 'the sweet spot' everything got darker and started to limit my choices for placement in the home.

Do plasma/lcd 's suffer from the same 'sweet spot'

The last thing I need to do is spend $5-6k on a TV that the WAF is going to phreak out on because she cannot see from sitting at an angle.

The TV I was looking at was TH-58PX600U Panny.

Thanks
DTT
DeathtoToasters is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 11:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
snowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
LCD suffer from the "sweet spot" effect, but plasma's do not.

Eric

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced" - corollary to Clark's Third Law
snowmoon is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DeathtoToasters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the response. So I guess I an confused on the difference between lcd and plasma's. Is there a quick answer to that?
DeathtoToasters is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
snowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's a long answer that can better be answered by google. here is a quick and incomplete answer.

Both are "Flat Panel" but LCD uses a transmissive technology ( light passes through the panel to create the image ) and the result is that if you are more than 30 degrees off dead center the image begins to wash out and gets progressivly worse towards the edges.

Plasma is an emmisive technology ( the panel is the source of the image ). There is no wash-out effect throughout the entire range.

Eric

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced" - corollary to Clark's Third Law
snowmoon is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 11:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
DVD Freaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmoon
It's a long answer that can better be answered by google. here is a quick and incomplete answer.

Both are "Flat Panel" but LCD uses a transmissive technology and the result is that if you are more than 30 degrees off dead center the image begins to wash out and gets progressivly worse towards the edges.

Plasma is an emmisive technology with each pixel actually emiiting light. There is no wash-out effect throughout the entire range.
I just got a new Samsung 46" LCD and I had this very concern.

When I am seated on my bed about 9 feet away from the tv...the picture is crystal clear and all colors are vibrant. But when I walk up directly in front of the tv and stand above it, the black levels start to look 'purplish' and the picture lightens considerably. Is this normal? When I lower my head back down level to the tv, the purple effect goes away. Basically, close-up from above the tv and on the sides, the black levels start to look really weird. The further away you get from the tv and closer to the front of it, the better it looks. But the purple tinge to the black concerns me....this doesn't seem normal to me.
DVD Freaky is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 12:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 166
it's simply the limit of the DLP technology, at this point.


for off-axis viewing capability:

DLP - Fair
LCD - Good
Plasma - Great

depending on your specific room environment, LCD might provide you with enough off-axis non-degraded picture viewing. If that doesn't quite cut it, then plasma should be your choice. Remember though, the lower your room light, the worse panel dimming at off-angles becomes. So in the case of LCD, if the showroom is bright and you view an LCD off-axis, it will look better in that environment than if you were to get it home and turn the lights lower. The lower the light, the more you notice this effect. DLP would get even worse in those conditions.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #7 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
DVD Freaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
it's simply the limit of the DLP technology, at this point.


for off-axis viewing capability:

DLP - Fair
LCD - Good
Plasma - Great

depending on your specific room environment, LCD might provide you with enough off-axis non-degraded picture viewing. If that doesn't quite cut it, then plasma should be your choice. Remember though, the lower your room light, the worse panel dimming at off-angles becomes. So in the case of LCD, if the showroom is bright and you view an LCD off-axis, it will look better in that environment than if you were to get it home and turn the lights lower. The lower the light, the more you notice this effect. DLP would get even worse in those conditions.
I definitely understand and agree with all that, but should the black levels start looking purple when you're standing right in front of the tv though? Like I said, once I sit back down...the black levels look normal again. And yes, it's not quite as bad when I turn the lights brighter. And again...you're right...I didn't notice it in the showroom because it was very bright in there and most of the scenes they showed on the demo were bright also (I think they do it intentionally?).

Do you think I need to exchange this tv for a replacement?
DVD Freaky is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Freaky

Do you think I need to exchange this tv for a replacement?
I doubt it's a defect. If you live in a populated enough area where you might have an opportunity to visit several stores, or at least, until you can find one which has some LCDs set up in a more subdued lighting environment, I would do that in order to assuage any doubts that the purple-ish color you see is specific to your panel alone. Try a couple different Circuit City locations, if you have more than one nearby, as store layouts can differ, even in the same chain. Same goes for Best Buys (try a couple), Fry's, Sears, and whatever other stores you have available in your area. Again, I suspect it's merely the result of the LCD technology in general, under progressively extreme angles. There may be some slight differences from model to model, and brand to brand, but you'll probably find them to be fairly similar in this regard. Good luck.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #9 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
moving your eyes above or below the screen is just as much a part of 'viewing angles' as moving left or right, sometimes even worse. I don't think what you are seeing is a defect.
sievers is online now  
post #10 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Member
 
shifrbv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtoToasters
Ok, I have been reading through the forums and online and am confused about something.

When I looked at the DLP over at CC the color was just amazing, but once I stepped out of 'the sweet spot' everything got darker and started to limit my choices for placement in the home.

Do plasma/lcd 's suffer from the same 'sweet spot'

The last thing I need to do is spend $5-6k on a TV that the WAF is going to phreak out on because she cannot see from sitting at an angle.

The TV I was looking at was TH-58PX600U Panny.

Thanks
DTT
Do not buy DLP, I managed to return mine to Costco...

2 bulbs - 2.5 years x250 each
shifrbv is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
Doug_Eldred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And this is why the height of the TV, on its stand or wall-mounted or whatever, is critically important for some TVs, less so for others. In some cases it's "just" esthetics or eyestrain, in other cases it's viewability, period.

Doug
Doug_Eldred is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 02:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Doug_Eldred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by shifrbv
Do not buy DLP, I managed to return mine to Costco...

2 bulbs - 2.5 years x250 each
DLP is fine, if viewed properly. Ditto for LCD, plasma, direct-view CRT, and all of the other variants. Some have narrower "proper viewing angle" constraints than others, but all are capable of fine viewing under the right conditions.

Doug
Doug_Eldred is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 03:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 166
well, that goes without saying. But we're not talking about the quality of image when "viewed properly". We're strictly discussing viewing quality outside of the proper viewing angle. And for those who have those needs or for whatever reason, simply want the best off-axis viewing, these are the relevant facts for those people.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #14 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 03:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
sievers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
at the risk of sounding obvious, I'd just add that dlp in itself is not the source of the issue, but rather rear projection, in all it's forms. Front projection dlp looks great.
sievers is online now  
post #15 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 03:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
DVD Freaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I found this on a website just now regarding what I am seeing with the purple blacks...interesting:

IPS (In-Plane Switching): The IPS panel was pioneered by Hitachi to fix the problems that plague the VA and TN types. Like TN, most IPSes contain only a single domain, although DD-IPS (dual domain IPS) does exist. This technology sports the least distortion at wide viewing angles. Two transistors per each pixel are needed, so brighter backlighting is crucial and power consumption is higher than competing technologies, but response time benefits greatly from this. Color depth varies. One disadvantage is that a purple-black is now introduced in black colors at different viewing angles.
DVD Freaky is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DeathtoToasters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow...I have never started a thread that had so much action so quickly :) I feel so proud.


Anyway,, Thanks for all the comments. This has helped me out alot.

The other issue for DLP for me was that I don't have a wall unit right now and under my TV now (52" HD Sony, big SILVER BOX...a couple of years old) is a cabinet we use for the movies for the kids.

Anyway, since DLP is a rear projection, that kind of kills the wall mounting thoughts I had.
DeathtoToasters is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 166
with what I estimate to be some 20-30 newbie-type thread inquires on this forum per day, most asking the same questions that have been asked dozens & dozens of times, it's the luck of the draw in terms of getting a decent number of replies. This time, you got lucky. :D

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #18 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DeathtoToasters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
with what I estimate to be some 20-30 newbie-type thread inquires on this forum per day, most asking the same questions that have been asked dozens & dozens of times, it's the luck of the draw in terms of getting a decent number of replies. This time, you got lucky. :D

Well now I feel lucky and stupid :P

LOL
DeathtoToasters is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 166
;)

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #20 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
DeathtoToasters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Something I was hearing from a few customers at CC when I was looking.

That if I had a 52" Rear Projection TV and got a 48" Plasma, which is obviously a smaller screen size, that I would hardly notice as the picture quality is so much better, sharper, etc.

Anyone have any comments or thoughts on this?
DeathtoToasters is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
DVD Freaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtoToasters
Something I was hearing from a few customers at CC when I was looking.

That if I had a 52" Rear Projection TV and got a 48" Plasma, which is obviously a smaller screen size, that I would hardly notice as the picture quality is so much better, sharper, etc.

Anyone have any comments or thoughts on this?
I can speak from this experience, since I returned a 60" rear pro Sony XBR2 last month...after owning it for just 3 weeks and got a smaller size tv, a 46" Samsung LCD yesterday. I personally find rear pro in general to just be too hazy, too cloudy in the picture...it's not as sharp to me as LCD or plasma. I am also a big gamer, so I appreciate the clarity and sharpness of my new LCD with fine detailed images and textured landscapes. For me, rear pro just does not cut it for gaming, although you will definitely find people who love it for that purpose. Just your own personal preference, I guess.

The obvious advantage of rear pro is you get bigger size for less money, but IMO...you get a lesser picture as well.

I saw a 65" Panasonic 1080p plasma this week @ BB Magnolia with Blu-Ray hooked up to it...and the results were pretty astonishing. Large size plasma's and LCD's with 1080p are gonna be pretty expensive for awhile...so look forward to when they eventually drop.
DVD Freaky is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 12-01-2006, 04:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
dr0s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtoToasters
That if I had a 52" Rear Projection TV and got a 48" Plasma, which is obviously a smaller screen size, that I would hardly notice as the picture quality is so much better, sharper, etc.
The 52" RPTV has 17% more viewing area than the 48" plasma. This is not a very large difference. (Most size jumps are closer to 30%: the difference between a 37" and 42" TV is 29%; the difference between 42" and 48" is 31%, etc.) The plasma will have more luminance, so overall you might find the plasma an easier set to watch.
As far as picture quality, that is a different issue - some RPTVs have very very accurate pictures, you won't necessarily beat that with a plasma, depending on the brands you are considering. - DR
dr0s is offline  
Closed Thread LCD Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off