LCD TV life expectancy? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 62 Old 12-09-2006, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I have had CRTs from 19 inch to 32 inch with tube and solid state chassis and most of them lasted 10 years and beyond. Although the tube TV's needed occasional service the screens never had any problems and the solid state sets ran for a long long time.

I replaced the TV in my family room with a Sharp 42D62U LCD. The TV I replaced is a 32 inch JVC CRT that ran 16 hours a day for 8 years and is still perfect so it has gotten a new home in my guest room. This is pretty good considering that they all cost under $600.00.

The $2000.00 Sharp LCD I just bought is going to go through the same 16 hour a day run time and I am concerned that it may not be up to the job that the mature technology CRTs that I have had in the past did.

What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 62 Old 12-09-2006, 06:52 PM
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It's rated for 60000 lamp life. So, running it 16 hours daily should last you more than 10 years.
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post #3 of 62 Old 12-09-2006, 07:09 PM
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I would say that you need to cut back on watching soooo much TV! 16 hours a day!!!!! Are you crazy?? Or is the a commercial enviroment where you are showcasing a product or something??

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post #4 of 62 Old 12-09-2006, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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If it runs for 10 years without any trouble I will be happy. I run the backlight at 30% most times so that should extend it's life further. What about the pixels themselves? There is no mention of their lifespan is there?

Yea we are a bit crazy... There is always someone home so the TV gets turned on in the morning and gets watched off and on throughout the day.

I have always believed that it is better to leave it running than to shut it off and on 3 or 4 times a day.
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post #5 of 62 Old 12-09-2006, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_R View Post

I have always believed that it is better to leave it running than to shut it off and on 3 or 4 times a day.

This is not true. This is not a diesel engine. Leaving it on while it's not being watched is a complete waste of energy and turning it on and off throughout the day should have no negative effect on it.
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post #6 of 62 Old 12-10-2006, 05:13 PM
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Your Sharp has user-replaceable backlight bulbs; since this is the main thing that goes on LCD TVs (normal bulb life expectancy is 30-60,000 hours on newer sets), you should be good to go for a long time.

I agree that you should turn the set off when you are not watching it. The old common wisdom on on/off cycles was based on equipment 20 years ago. Your current equipment is rated for at least several hundred thousands of such cycles. Leaving it on will do more to shorten life expectancy than switching it on and off per use. - DR
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post #7 of 62 Old 12-10-2006, 06:27 PM
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"I have always believed that it is better to leave it running than to shut it off and on 3 or 4 times a day."

This is not true at all. This was disproved in the late 80's or early 90's. It used to be common for people to leave their computers running all the time. Back in that time period it did extend the life of the machines a little bit. Since the early 90's there was no reason to leave any electronic device on all the time or in your case to avoid shutting it off. That is simply a waste of energy and a waste of the device. Do not leave your TV for 16 hours a day, there is simply no reason to. This isn't the 80's anymore!!!!

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post #8 of 62 Old 12-11-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr0s View Post

Your Sharp has user-replaceable backlight bulbs; since this is the main thing that goes on LCD TVs (normal bulb life expectancy is 30-60,000 hours on newer sets), you should be good to go for a long time.

"User replaceable" backlights? Have you been listening to those highly trained redshirts at BB again? I think they have the plasma gas recharge kits right next to the Sharp CCFL backlights in the accessory isle


ron
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post #9 of 62 Old 12-11-2006, 11:24 AM
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"User replaceable".....I missed that! That has to be one of most incorrect things I have read on this forum.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #10 of 62 Old 01-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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CCFL tubes are very staight forward to replace but there is no business model for anyone to get into the business yet. They are miniature versions of the same tube in the ceiling of your office. They simply solder back where they came from. In the future, TV repair guys will be doing this.

As for the pixels, they are driven by a transistor. Being solid state, there really is no life-expectancy issues here. The LCD fluid is good for 100K+ hours, so long as it stays below 150 degrees F.

DB
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post #11 of 62 Old 01-09-2007, 11:24 PM
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Docs for the 27" HDTV ready LCD I bought a couple of years ago said its backlight was rated 50,000 hours, but its backlight warranty was only 90 days. I was probably foolish to get an extended warranty because it has been trouble free. 8 hrs/day (more than I use it) for 50k hrs would be 17 years. The first solid state CRT TV our family had lasted 17 years, RCA XL100 with mechanical remote (ultrasound with no batteries, maybe why remotes used to be called clickers).

My laptop was purchased in January 2000 (dual boots Win98SE/Linux) and its LCD screen is still going strong after 7 years, even though I left it on 24/7 for several years as a wireless terminal for Linux PC's and DSL in my basement (backlight would shut off when unattended). But with dead battery, only 192 mb RAM (not enough for XP), and 9 gb hard drive, it is not worth upgrading the OS.

Who knows what will be the latest and greatest video mode before your LCD TV wears out? Technology advances exponentially.
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post #12 of 62 Old 01-10-2007, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efflandt View Post

Docs for the 27" HDTV ready LCD I bought a couple of years ago said its backlight was rated 50,000 hours, but its backlight warranty was only 90 days. I was probably foolish to get an extended warranty because it has been trouble free. 8 hrs/day (more than I use it) for 50k hrs would be 17 years. The first solid state CRT TV our family had lasted 17 years, RCA XL100 with mechanical remote (ultrasound with no batteries, maybe why remotes used to be called clickers).

My laptop was purchased in January 2000 (dual boots Win98SE/Linux) and its LCD screen is still going strong after 7 years, even though I left it on 24/7 for several years as a wireless terminal for Linux PC's and DSL in my basement (backlight would shut off when unattended). But with dead battery, only 192 mb RAM (not enough for XP), and 9 gb hard drive, it is not worth upgrading the OS.

Who knows what will be the latest and greatest video mode before your LCD TV wears out? Technology advances exponentially.

I had a few RCAs myself. Except for the occasional tube replacement and the one transistor (123A used like a diode) that cost 98 cents at radio shack it worked for years. I didnt get into Solid state TVs until the technology progressed beyond the Magnavox Works in a drawer nightmare. My first solid state was a Sony trinitron that ran for 13 years.

If this Sharp lasts as long as my other TVs have then I will be happy. If it doesnt it will be moved to my electronics autopsy table to have its innards examined. If it died due to backlight failure or a bad power supply I will find the parts or substitute parts and perform reconstructive surgery. I have done this to many TVs and saved them from the TV grim reaper. Conservation at its best!

I would probably try to fix it even if it does have a long but finite life span. It would then be relegated to a Garage TV to watch while I attempt surgery on something else that died a horrible electronic death. It always amazes me how some problems are so simple to repair. If you can do the Arthur Fonzarely bang it on the side trick and get it to blink for a moment then a soldering iron is all you will need. Other times the pillagings of a unrepairable gadget can sometimes bring a basket case back to life.
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post #13 of 62 Old 01-10-2007, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_R View Post

If it runs for 10 years without any trouble I will be happy. I run the backlight at 30% most times so that should extend it's life further. What about the pixels themselves? There is no mention of their lifespan is there?

Yea we are a bit crazy... There is always someone home so the TV gets turned on in the morning and gets watched off and on throughout the day.

I have always believed that it is better to leave it running than to shut it off and on 3 or 4 times a day.

No you aren't crazy, we are. Our TV is on for 24/7, except when we're on vacation. I recently replaced our, still working, Sony 27" direct view TV with a LG 32LC2D LCD flat panel display. The backlight is rated for 60,000 hours. For our use, it should be good for 8 1/3 years. By that time we should have the next revolution is display technology (4320p or holographic ), and it will get replaced.

The electronics may be using parts, and designs, made in the last 5 years, but the power supply designs still go back to the 70' or 80's, at best (made as cheap as possible). The biggest problems with turning the set on and off is that each time it's turned on, there is a power supply surge, which is more hazardous to the equipment health & life than anything else (except for running it in a hot room or equipment rack).

In testing that we did on spacecraft electronics (required 15 year life time at 24/7 operation) the biggest causes of test failures that we ever had was either bad parts or turning the equipment on and off. Whenever possible, our test gear is on 24/7 for maximum life and reduced calibration needs.

BTW, our TV is the only electronics that is on 24/7. Our surround sound system, PJ, DVD player, etc. is only turned on when we are going to use it. Then it's left on until we go to bed, the TV is turn off when we use the PJ (normally for 4 to 8 hours). None of my equipment is turned on for only an hour (except for the notebook computers, and those don't last for more than 5 years - my last one failed in less than 1.5 years).

Yes, turning the TV off when not in use is environmentally friendly (less electricity use). However, my new LCD display uses about half the power that my old CRT set did. So I just cut my electricity use (for that appliance) by 50%.

I agree with your latest post, many failures are fixable, if you want to go to the trouble. I had one TV which had it's picture tube fail (a set made by Thompson - sold by CC). The cost of the replacement was higher than the cost of a new set.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #14 of 62 Old 01-10-2007, 01:44 PM
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The 60,000 hour is the half brightness life of the CCFLs but they will fail to fire shortly thereafter. If the CCFLs are left on all the time, they ought to last even longer. A 15 minute on / 15 minute off duty cycle is the absolute worse thing one can do to CCFLs. Turning on a cold CCFL is key to a short life. Striking a cold cathode kills more mercury vapor and will start to plate the cathode. Once a CCFL is on, it is very efficient and will not accelerate the life. The above duty cycle has the most "cold starts" and it will take its toll.

If you want to stretch the life even longer, leave the backlight and set ON, but turn the backlight down to 50%. But then again, if doing anything you want gets you 50K hours, doesn't this fall under the "don't care" catagory???

DB
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post #15 of 62 Old 01-10-2007, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS View Post

The 60,000 hour is the half brightness life of the CCFLs but they will fail to fire shortly thereafter. If the CCFLs are left on all the time, they ought to last even longer. A 15 minute on / 15 minute off duty cycle is the absolute worse thing one can do to CCFLs. Turning on a cold CCFL is key to a short life. Striking a cold cathode kills more mercury vapor and will start to plate the cathode. Once a CCFL is on, it is very efficient and will not accelerate the life. The above duty cycle has the most "cold starts" and it will take its toll.

If you want to stretch the life even longer, leave the backlight and set ON, but turn the backlight down to 50%. But then again, if doing anything you want gets you 50K hours, doesn't this fall under the "don't care" catagory???

DB

So my life long habit of not short term power cycling and allowing my TVs to remain in their power on steady state does have its benefits. Perhaps this is why most of my sets have lasted so long. It is not that I dont turn my TV off at all but if I am just going to not watch for an hour or so I usually leave it on.
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post #16 of 62 Old 01-13-2007, 01:08 PM
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Yep. CRT TVs are worse victim of on and off power surges.

DB
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post #17 of 62 Old 07-02-2008, 01:21 PM
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Ok, so I am fairly fluent in HDTV knowledge. I know that LCD panel lives are usually around 60,000 hours. I got into an argument with a TV technician that came over to my parent's house to repair their 50" Samsung DLP. I told him I was thinking my next HDTV would most likely be a Sharp Aquos LC-52SE94U. He told me I was crazy to buy an LCD because their backlighting (even on name brand high-end models) only lasts 3-5 years and are extremely expensive to replace. I was sure that they lasted longer at moderate use (3-6 hours a day).

Does anyone have links or knowledge?

THIS is all I found and still doesn't answer the question...

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post #18 of 62 Old 07-02-2008, 03:35 PM
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I had a CRT rear projection set repaired once that just quit coming on. The repairman came equipped with just a soldering iron. I asked him how that was going to fix anything. He told me that the repeated ON/OFF (heat up/cool off) cycles caused expansion/contraction in the power supply solder joints breaking some of the connections. Sure enough, about 30 minutes of him hitting all the connections and I was back in business.
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post #19 of 62 Old 07-02-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS View Post

The 60,000 hour is the half brightness life of the CCFLs but they will fail to fire shortly thereafter. If the CCFLs are left on all the time, they ought to last even longer. A 15 minute on / 15 minute off duty cycle is the absolute worse thing one can do to CCFLs. Turning on a cold CCFL is key to a short life. Striking a cold cathode kills more mercury vapor and will start to plate the cathode. Once a CCFL is on, it is very efficient and will not accelerate the life. The above duty cycle has the most "cold starts" and it will take its toll.

If you want to stretch the life even longer, leave the backlight and set ON, but turn the backlight down to 50%. But then again, if doing anything you want gets you 50K hours, doesn't this fall under the "don't care" catagory???

DB

While I don't doubt what you say your logic is flawed by leaving the TV on all the time you get more hours out of your bulb...ok... great so my TV got to be on more with me not watching it then it would have been on if it was only on when I watched it?!?!

So the question is when would this be beneficial to someone? Probably more along the lines of not turning the TV on and off when you leave for a commercial break or something, but if you are done watching the TV for the day might as well turn it off.

You are going to wast so much electricity just leaving your TV on that you could probably afford to replace the TV with that money when it burns out 'early'.
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post #20 of 62 Old 07-03-2008, 10:08 AM
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it should last a good long time; unless of course it's a toshiba. then expect it to crap out in about 8 months.
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post #21 of 62 Old 07-03-2008, 12:43 PM
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I'm sure some boards will crap out way before the panel does. With the mandate on lead-free solder (for EU and Calif) tin splinters or whiskers will develop over time causing short circuits.

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post #22 of 62 Old 02-16-2010, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniz View Post

I would say that you need to cut back on watching soooo much TV! 16 hours a day!!!!! Are you crazy?? Or is the a commercial enviroment where you are showcasing a product or something??

It drives me nuts when people make a comment that doesn't address the post...

Why do some people think it's their right to question the persons use of their equipment and then tell them to change their interests?

The forum members question is a valid one in that the cost of ownership (or should I say lease) in our disposable technociety is a significant consideration.

If one considers the cost of owning an $800.00 TV for 15 years (like my Sony XBR) vs a $2,000 tv (like the new Vizio XVT TrueLED) which may last 10 years it is rather pointless to spend big money on the high quality since you'll be replacing it sooner than later anyway!

I would like to see the life expectency clearly defined in the product specs and the packaging. At least this way we HD-ILA owners would have known that the $1,400 purchase would be costing us another $600.00 maintenance over 10 years time.

At least with my HD-ILA I get a "brand new" looking picture with a new bulb every 5,000 hours... what happens when the LCD(ucf) or LED dim or fizzle? Guess it's time to buy a new TV and throw the old one in the landfill. So now we're recycling paper and plastic but buying disposable TVS with mercury ...

Maybe it really doesn't matter because when you think about it Plazma was the greatest thing to hit the shelves at $10,000 a few short years ago then it was LCD now it's LED and 60 hz is old while 120 hz is new but oh wait a minute cause now there's 240 hz and et. et....

Think I'll go build a cabin in the woods and watch the clouds go by!

Convergence is inevitable...
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post #23 of 62 Old 02-16-2010, 02:49 PM
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you do realize that the last post in this thread was dated "07-03-08, 12:43 PM"

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag
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post #24 of 62 Old 10-24-2010, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_R View Post

If it runs for 10 years without any trouble I will be happy. I run the backlight at 30% most times so that should extend it's life further. What about the pixels themselves? There is no mention of their lifespan is there?

Yea we are a bit crazy... There is always someone home so the TV gets turned on in the morning and gets watched off and on throughout the day.

I have always believed that it is better to leave it running than to shut it off and on 3 or 4 times a day.

I am an electronic engineer. I have been since 1977. You are half right about being concerned with shutting your set down 3 or 4 times a day. Old CRT type sets drew 3-4 times normal current to start the set. The units today have much more voltage regulation within the start up system than older sets. While the power supplies are still subject to spike current upon start up they too are much more robust. Shutting the set down 3 or 4 times per day will not affect its life span in any measurable way and is a more prudent use of energy. Make sure you have a surge protection unit on the set.
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post #25 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_R View Post

I have had CRTs from 19 inch to 32 inch with tube and solid state chassis and most of them lasted 10 years and beyond. Although the tube TV's needed occasional service the screens never had any problems and the solid state sets ran for a long long time.

I replaced the TV in my family room with a Sharp 42D62U LCD. The TV I replaced is a 32 inch JVC CRT that ran 16 hours a day for 8 years and is still perfect so it has gotten a new home in my guest room. This is pretty good considering that they all cost under $600.00.

The $2000.00 Sharp LCD I just bought is going to go through the same 16 hour a day run time and I am concerned that it may not be up to the job that the mature technology CRTs that I have had in the past did.

What do you guys think?

As mentioned above, current TVs have 60.000 Hour lifetime and even up to 100.000 Hours. Plasma manufacturers also state about 60.000Hour lifespan, and this is even half of the whole lifetime.

The way you use your TV can also affect your TV lifespan. Room temperature and lighting can reduce it (or preserve) and also backlight intensity can play a major role. So calibrating your TV , adjusting backlight level can help you save it longer.
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post #26 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 03:38 AM
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Aren't we all ready to throw a TV away after two years anyway?
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post #27 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r11 View Post

"user replaceable" backlights? Have you been listening to those highly trained redshirts at bb again? I think they have the plasma gas recharge kits right next to the sharp ccfl backlights in the accessory isle


ron

lol
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post #28 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 07:32 AM
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FWIW - In a reply to a letter we sent to Vizio asking about lamp life of their "3" series, 9/30/10, we received this from Vizio's Senior Engineer:

Neither Plasma, LCD nor LED technologies have been in existence long enough to bear out the projected time to half brightness.
- Those figures are based not on actuarial data, but best-guess estimates of the designers of the illumination technologies.
- There are complex variables in LED backlights, i.e. composition, substrate and bonding material.
The Engineering Spec list 50,000 for XVT423SV, XVT473SV and XVT553SV.


Food for thought as applied to TVs...

Tom
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post #29 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom the Piddler View Post

FWIW - In a reply to a letter we sent to Vizio asking about lamp life of their "3" series, 9/30/10, we received this from Vizio's Senior Engineer:

Neither Plasma, LCD nor LED technologies have been in existence long enough to bear out the projected time to half brightness.
- Those figures are based not on actuarial data, but best-guess estimates of the designers of the illumination technologies.
- There are complex variables in LED backlights, i.e. composition, substrate and bonding material.
The Engineering Spec list 50,000 for XVT423SV, XVT473SV and XVT553SV.


Food for thought as applied to TVs...

Tom

Good find. The fact is that neither LCD nor Plasma have been around in sufficient numbers to make long term predictions with any certainty. Direct view CRTs have been around for close to 60 years, with many generations of improvements in design and manufacture. Right now, we can say that the available data support a trouble free life for LCD and Plasma for ~6 years, but people are keeping an eye on LCD and Plasma longevity and there is no reason that this cannot extend to 10-11 years.
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post #30 of 62 Old 10-25-2010, 12:54 PM
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The build quality of modern electronics is not up to the "10 years or more" standard of yesteryear. It just isn't. Of course, your set might last 20 years. And then again, it might not last 1.

If I were guessing, I'd expect the mean lifetime of today's LCD TVs to be between 5 and 10 years before a repair is required that's more expensive or troublesome than a replacement.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
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