Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Display Devices > LCD Flat Panel Displays > Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

LCD Flat Panel Displays

megashock5's Avatar megashock5
10:21 AM Liked: 10
post #721 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 74
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by chivas-1 View Post

Any feedback on how the Sharps perform with 120Hz?

I'm wondering about this too. I keep hearing how the technology is supposed to improve motion blur, but I've yet to hear any real world opinions on how much difference it makes, and whether it's worth waiting/paying a premium for.
Riverside_Guy's Avatar Riverside_Guy
11:31 AM Liked: 10
post #722 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 5,449
Joined: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

I used the word synonymous so I think my statement is correct. To clarify, if you have a QAM tuner, that does not mean you have a Cablecard slot. Your statement "none of the various models seemed to be cable card equipped (i.e. have QAM tuners)" implies to me that models without cablecard will not have qam tuners.

I think the samsung website has it in the downloadable spec sheets, clear QAM tuner. Check it out, all LNT's have qam.

Ah, it looks like they have definitely changed there marketing, they call these sets "ATSC" tuner equipped and as I said, they have used DCR as a term to indicate a QAM tuner/cable card slot. Plus, a QAM tuner is a separate component from an ATSC tuner. Previously, Samsung ONLY included QAM tuners with cable card equipped sets.

BTW, I also downloaded the 178 page owners guide to several 61 and 65 models. Not one mention of "QAM" in all those 178 pages, some of which contained very specific technical specs.

I also recall being "told" by many I had a QAM tuner in my set... but it actually doesn't have one.

So let's just say I'm very skeptical...

I find is more than curious they now supposedly have QAM tuners but I don't see any cable card equipped sets???
flatpanel's Avatar flatpanel
12:38 PM Liked: 10
post #723 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 538
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I find is more than curious they now supposedly have QAM tuners but I don't see any cable card equipped sets???

These are two distinct features. It would seem logical if you have a "cable slot",
you would then order cable, and therefore having a QAM tuner makes sense. Other than
that, there's no reason really to need a cable slot to get a QAM tuner. My Sony LCD
has a QAM tuner and no cablecard slot.
mark_1080p's Avatar mark_1080p
02:57 PM Liked: 11
post #724 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 3,835
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

BTW, I also downloaded the 178 page owners guide to several 61 and 65 models. Not one mention of "QAM" in all those 178 pages, some of which contained very specific technical specs.

I also recall being "told" by many I had a QAM tuner in my set... but it actually doesn't have one.

So let's just say I'm very skeptical...

I find is more than curious they now supposedly have QAM tuners but I don't see any cable card equipped sets???

Yes, the manual does not mention it. That is why I said to go to the web site and download the spec sheet, not the manual. The spec sheet for the 5265 has
"Built-in digital tuner (ATSC/Clear QAM)" as a bullet. All LN-T sets have ATSC and QAM tuners. None so far have Cablecard and I was told by Samsung that none will this year or possibly ever. I have a 4661 and I already tested the QAM tuner, not the ATSC tuner. It works.

People have not adopted Cablecard in large numbers, so the TV manufacturers are not including it in LCD TV's. Also, Samsung has received lots of complaints of trouble with Cablecard, thanks to the crap cable companies. So blame the cable companies, they have been fighting this tooth and nail, so they can charge us more for their crap boxes.
SED <--- Rules's Avatar SED <--- Rules
04:17 PM Liked: 14
post #725 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 832
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post

Is it confirmed if this TV will have all-in-one features???

I ask this cause the last time (after CES 07), there was a press release stating:

Movie-centered= 81 series
-1080p@50-60hz/fps + 24hz/fps for movies
-LED backlight with local dimming

BUT NO 120hz refresh rate

Motion-centered = 71 series
-1080p@50-60hz/fps
-120hz refresh rate

BUT NO LED backlight (still uses traditional CCFL)

So for this year, the techs will still be split into two models then?

Sigh...I guess you really didn't read this whole thread didn't you?

Ok, the 81 series does not need 120hz refresh rate! The LED backlight technology will completely get rid of motion blur. Do some research dude.

So, the 81 series will be the complete thing. Everything in it is included for the best entertainment experience.
Admiral Ackbar's Avatar Admiral Ackbar
04:57 PM Liked: 10
post #726 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 222
Joined: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Sigh...I guess you really didn't read this whole thread didn't you?

Ok, the 81 series does not need 120hz refresh rate! The LED backlight technology will completely get rid of motion blur. Do some research dude.

So, the 81 series will be the complete thing. Everything in it is included for the best entertainment experience.

I'm not so sure you understand the benefit of 120HZ & 24fps. Maybe LED LCD will get rid of motion blur, but as far as I can figure, it will do zero for judder.

Since I don't see motion blur on the high end LCD panels with 60HZ processing, I'm more interested in what 120HZ will do for judder.

120HZ gets rid of judder because it allows for 5:5 pulldown. It should also be able to do reverse telecine on a signal that a DVD player put 3:2 pulldown on. The reverse (maybe inverse) telecine removes the 3:2 pulldown (returning it to 24fsp) and then the TV can apply 5:5 pulldown back to it.
studdad's Avatar studdad
06:15 PM Liked: 10
post #727 of 4495
05-16-2007 | Posts: 6,647
Joined: Mar 2007
From what I have read in the Sharp threads, it does a pretty good job getting rid of motion blur. However, the new Sharps still have problems with banding, although not as bad as the previous panels. And,,,,it sounds like Sharp may be denying the claim, lol. So,,,,,,,I am staying away from Sharp, at least for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chivas-1 View Post

I agree. I've been waiting to buy my first LCD since March and I do no not want to pay a premium for the unproven tech. I think I will settle for the 71 series.

Any feedback on how the Sharps perform with 120Hz?

I am hoping the Sammy will be better than the Sharp.


Cynn's Avatar Cynn
01:46 PM Liked: 10
post #728 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 1,572
Joined: Aug 2005
Quote:


The LED backlight technology will completely get rid of motion blur. Do some research dude.

How does a new backlight get rid of slow pixel refresh rates?
Haight's Avatar Haight
04:22 PM Liked: 10
post #729 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 108
Joined: May 2004
Over two and a half months to go (if no delay) and if they mentioned prices, it would probably be a big relief to their competitors and a "OH *()@#&" from us consumers
SED <--- Rules's Avatar SED <--- Rules
04:35 PM Liked: 14
post #730 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 832
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

How does a new backlight get rid of slow pixel refresh rates?

I'll let Samsung explain that to you:

http://samsung.feedroom.com/

Watch the conference and it will be explained (although not in detail).

Look at 12:20 for the explanation
Cynn's Avatar Cynn
04:43 PM Liked: 10
post #731 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 1,572
Joined: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I'll let Samsung explain that to you:

http://samsung.feedroom.com/

Watch the conference and it will be explained (although not in detail).

Look at 12:20 for the explanation

Thanks! I'll check this out now.
SED <--- Rules's Avatar SED <--- Rules
04:44 PM Liked: 14
post #732 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 832
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post

Maybe LED LCD will get rid of motion blur, but as far as I can figure, it will do zero for judder.

How do you know it will do zero for judder? Since 24 fps will most likey be implemented on the 81 series (but not 120hz), there is no need to worry about judder. Its not a big deal anyway.

I'm not sure how many hz will the 81 series have though. 72hz? 60hz? I don't know.... Whatever it is it should be a multiple of 24. Like 72. 72 is good.
Admiral Ackbar's Avatar Admiral Ackbar
05:39 PM Liked: 10
post #733 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 222
Joined: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

How do you know it will do zero for judder? Since 24 fps will most likey be implemented on the 81 series (but not 120hz), there is no need to worry about judder. Its not a big deal anyway.

I'm not sure how many hz will the 81 series have though. 72hz? 60hz? I don't know.... Whatever it is it should be a multiple of 24. Like 72. 72 is good.

Judder is a side effect of 3:2 pulldown. Unless the 81 series can do what I mentioned (72 Hz doesn't work well for 60hz TV content), 3:2 pull down is forced, and I find the judder annoying in panning shots.
jmhumr's Avatar jmhumr
08:52 PM Liked: 10
post #734 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 108
Joined: Sep 2006
They exhausted my patience. Was blown away by the Sony 40S3000 and pulled the trigger on one. Sure, it's not 1080p or 120hz, but I realized Samsung was just setting me up for disappointment in price. I wholly doubt the 71-series will convince me that it's worth an extra $1000+.
vtms's Avatar vtms
09:51 PM Liked: 16
post #735 of 4495
05-17-2007 | Posts: 997
Joined: Oct 2006
I know. This silence since CES 07 has been extremely annoying. But my prediction is this info drought will finally end next week at the SID conference. I would bet money 81s will make an appearance there.
johannesk-fin's Avatar johannesk-fin
01:37 AM Liked: 10
post #736 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 188
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post

Judder is a side effect of 3:2 pulldown. Unless the 81 series can do what I mentioned (72 Hz doesn't work well for 60hz TV content), 3:2 pull down is forced, and I find the judder annoying in panning shots.

Hopefully the 81 series has both 60Hz and 72Hz refresh rates.
kano1977's Avatar kano1977
03:54 PM Liked: 10
post #737 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 152
Joined: Jul 2006
i want a price dammit
SED <--- Rules's Avatar SED <--- Rules
04:10 PM Liked: 14
post #738 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 832
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

I know. This silence since CES 07 has been extremely annoying. But my prediction is this info drought will finally end next week at the SID conference. I would bet money 81s will make an appearance there.

When exactly is the SID conference? I would REALLY like to see some pictures of the set.
Mr T's Avatar Mr T
06:16 PM Liked: 10
post #739 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

When exactly is the SID conference? I would REALLY like to see some pictures of the set.

Man, for someone who posts so frequently on this thread, you sure are lazy. Must be why all your posts contain little substance and lots of hype and wishful thinking masquerading as truths.

Here's the conference link http://www.sid.org/. It's next week in Long Beach. It took me all of 30 seconds to find that.
mrjgkelly's Avatar mrjgkelly
06:50 PM Liked: 16
post #740 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 252
Joined: Dec 2006
Does anyone know whether the 81 Series will include all of these advanced features ? I understand that this display isn't 1080p, but if they introduced 10-bit gray-level fidelity and a refresh rate of 100Hz (EU), 120Hz (NTSC) in a 40" 1366x768 panel in 2006, why wouldn't they incorporate them in the '07 1080p panels? If they do, the 81 Series should be da bomb!


SID Display of the Year

Gold Award : Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd.: High Contrast, Wide Color Gamut, LED-Backlit LCD TV (LE40M91B)
The Samsung LE40M91B 40-inch LED backlit TV lead the pack of LED-backlit TVs that entered the marketplace in force for the first time in 2006. This thin-film transistor liquid-crystal display (TFT-LCD) TV combines superior brightness and maximum image fidelity to deliver a high-quality high-definition (HD) viewing experience. Featuring a dynamic contrast ratio of 10,000:1-the highest available today-the sleek, new LE40M91B allows for exceptionally dark blacks against the brightest whites. By re-mapping the complete range of primary colors through a mercury-free LED backlight, Samsung has extended the wide color gamut to an industry-leading 145% of the EBU standard. Its high-definition 1366x768 pixel resolution accentuates the panel's subtly understated black sheen appearance with richly textured wide-screen panoramas in a 16:9 aspect ratio.

Other significant visual achievements include the incorporation of 10-bit gray-level fidelity, elimination of motion judder, and prevention of smearing along the edges of the picture that can occur on flat screens during fast-moving scenes. With a response time of less than 8 milliseconds, the LE40M91B is virtually free of motion-picture blur with no false contouring. The display's refresh rate of 100Hz (EU), 120Hz (NTSC) produces an extremely clear picture with virtually no ghosting. In normal TVs, a new visual frame appears every 1/50th of a second (EU) or 1/60th of a second (US). Hold-type driving used in flat displays at this rate can result in the appearance of blurred images. By interpolating a new frame to be inserted between each set of incoming frames, the tendency toward motion-blur artifacts appears to have been virtually eliminated based on early reviews.
SED <--- Rules's Avatar SED <--- Rules
09:56 PM Liked: 14
post #741 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 832
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T View Post

Man, for someone who posts so frequently on this thread, you sure are lazy. Must be why all your posts contain little substance and lots of hype and wishful thinking masquerading as truths.

Here's the conference link http://www.sid.org/. It's next week in Long Beach. It took me all of 30 seconds to find that.

Well, after I posted I decided to look and found all that info in 15 seconds. "Little substance"? What do you want me to say? We know little about these tvs. And whats wrong with hype? The 8G plasmas are hyped like theres no tomorrow. Take it easy there chum!
studdad's Avatar studdad
10:34 PM Liked: 10
post #742 of 4495
05-18-2007 | Posts: 6,647
Joined: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhumr View Post

They exhausted my patience. Was blown away by the Sony 40S3000 and pulled the trigger on one. Sure, it's not 1080p or 120hz, but I realized Samsung was just setting me up for disappointment in price. I wholly doubt the 71-series will convince me that it's worth an extra $1000+.

I hear ya. If I don't hear some additional info to my liking, I may pull the trigger on something else as well. I have been monitoring the Sharp 92u thread, and it sounds like some of the banding issues may be "lessening", so who knows, maybe they will get their act together. Is that Sony the Costco one? When you get a chance, please let me know how the SD PQ is, and if you get any motion blur.

Thanks
D-Block's Avatar D-Block
06:17 AM Liked: 10
post #743 of 4495
05-19-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: Nov 2006
Is this TV as good to buy as SED?
westa6969's Avatar westa6969
06:42 AM Liked: 220
post #744 of 4495
05-19-2007 | Posts: 7,036
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Block View Post

Is this TV as good to buy as SED?

Unfortunately, for the time being SED is Vaporware - a hoped for Holy Grail Panel that has failed to produce anything but hype and delays to market. Too bad they just don't give up and sell the tech to Samsung - they'd bring it to market within six months. SED most likely holds the record for discussion on this forum for something that simply has never existed outside a Lab or Trade Show and in fact they were MIA at CES this year. Seinfeld did a show about "Nothing" and this is the panel that has been discussed for years that so far is "Nothing" but a yardstick goal for a non-production model that so far has a 40" and a 40" panel is not going to rule any HT arena as that is much too small for TRUE HT - they best make that baby larger. 40" is a weenie TV IMO for space constraint areas not HT's.

The competition is not blind to what it MAY be able to do otherwise why would you suddenly see these dramatic upticks in blacks and CR this year and next - you can bet Super Blacks will be the buzzword along with 1080P/24. Could be by the time Canon brings it along they'll be leapfrogged by competition.

Much to do about nothing until somebody dares produce one for sale and passes snuff for over 30 days on this forum - rare indeed for any panel to make it beyond 2 week honeymoon on this forum. For now neither can be critiqued since they are not available - thus we speculate . . .
Mr T's Avatar Mr T
09:30 AM Liked: 10
post #745 of 4495
05-19-2007 | Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Well, after I posted I decided to look and found all that info in 15 seconds. "Little substance"? What do you want me to say? We know little about these tvs. And whats wrong with hype? The 8G plasmas are hyped like theres no tomorrow. Take it easy there chum!

Exactly - there is no data right now for these TVs that hasn't already been said many times. How about say nothing unless you actually have some new data to share that has some meat to it. The hype is getting old. I get it - you really like what this TV could be. Most of us are here for the same reason - this new technology has alot of promise. Most of us here are waiting for some real information. For you, it must also solve world hunger, as you promote things you don't know about it as facts.

And please, don't get on me for berating you. I loved this little gem of a response from you the other day to someone else:

Sigh...I guess you really didn't read this whole thread didn't you?

Ok, the 81 series does not need 120hz refresh rate! The LED backlight technology will completely get rid of motion blur. Do some research dude.

So, the 81 series will be the complete thing. Everything in it is included for the best entertainment experience.
05-16-07 01:57 PM


The first bolded sentence is complete conjecture, based on a video where a Samsung guy mentioned something he called LED scanning, but didn't explain what it was or how it helps.

And the second bolded sentence is exactly what I told you to do. Guess you find it kind of rude too, huh?
jmhumr's Avatar jmhumr
09:33 AM Liked: 10
post #746 of 4495
05-19-2007 | Posts: 108
Joined: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

I hear ya. If I don't hear some additional info to my liking, I may pull the trigger on something else as well. I have been monitoring the Sharp 92u thread, and it sounds like some of the banding issues may be "lessening", so who knows, maybe they will get their act together. Is that Sony the Costco one? When you get a chance, please let me know how the SD PQ is, and if you get any motion blur.

Thanks

The Sony S3000's just came out, and I got mine from a regional AV store. I don't know if Costco has their version of it yet or not - according to their website they're still selling the S2000's.

The SD PQ was a pleasant surprise - I think it's really good. I can post pics if you like (I was actually thinking of starting an S3000 thread).

Motion blur is something I'm not very good at judging. I'll put it this way: It isn't bad enough that I notice it. I've watched a lot of baseball on this TV so far and it looks sharp to me.
studdad's Avatar studdad
01:48 PM Liked: 10
post #747 of 4495
05-19-2007 | Posts: 6,647
Joined: Mar 2007
jmhumr, thanks. I will look it up.
studdad's Avatar studdad
04:04 PM Liked: 10
post #748 of 4495
05-20-2007 | Posts: 6,647
Joined: Mar 2007
Ok, so I went and looked at the SD content on some LCD tv's today. My choices today were Samsung and Sharp. I went to BB, and I have to say, the SD content on both sets was better than one would be lead to believe on the forums, but certainly not great. One channel on the Samsung (looked at both 4661 and 4665, they did not have a 52 inch) looked terrible. It seemed to be void of reds and whites and was just one big blur of green and blue. But another channel with a Hockey game playing looked very watchable (i was informed it was a digital channel). The Aquos (I believe it was the 82u) also looked alright on the SD channels. The HD on all the sets did not look incredibly impressive, as there was a fair amount of pixalation, so I assume that is due to the multiple splitting of the source. The salesperson commented on a few things that I would like to get answered in here:

1). He said the SD channels were OTA, and that Directv (I have Directv HD with an HD DVR), being digital, would give me a better picture than the SD OTA channels. Now, I know from on here that usually the OTA HD channels are better than Directv HD channels, so one would assume the SD would be better OTA also,,,,can anyone comment on that?

2). He said that Plasma would give me a better picture in SD than LCD. He then showed me the SD on the Samsung 50" plasma (didnt get the model #) and compared it to the SD on the Samsung 4661F. Quite frankly the 4661F looked better, lol. We were watching the Hockey game, and that is when he claimed "well this is a good digital channel. If I could get a standard channel (I assume like the green/blue channel as I call it now) you would see how much better the plasma is for regular SD."

3). Since he had a higher regard for Plasma, at least in the SD mode, I asked him about burn in, particularly black-bar burn in from watching SD. He showed me how the Samsung had an anti-burn in function that scanned the screen to eliminate burnin, and even fix it if it happened. So I ask you, if you had burnin, would this truely work?

4). I then asked him the lighted room question, i.e. plasma looks great in darkened rooms, but not so much in well lit rooms. He then went on about glare, which we all know about, but also said it was really a toss up, because although most of the LCD's are matte finish instead of glass (well, except for the 4665), that LCD's tend to wash out in light. Hmmmm, I thought the washout arguement was the one made against plasma's, not LCD's, but I didnt argue with him.

I have been pretty much stuck on LCD's over Plasmas, and, after seeing the plasma screens, I still like the LCD's better. They are so much brighter and more detailed. But any answers to my questions above would be appreciated, particularly as it pertains to SD, as I would still like to have a decent SD picture (better than the one I saw today).
westa6969's Avatar westa6969
04:58 PM Liked: 220
post #749 of 4495
05-20-2007 | Posts: 7,036
Joined: Jan 2005
STUDDAD - You seem to have placed your inquiry in the wrong place. This is a speculation thread on the upcoming 81 series Samsung LCD and yet I see no references to 81 series post at hand.

Ignore what a Sales Asso ciate suggests as they bring a certain bias along. Garner valuation ideas here and then go by what pleases YOU whether anyone agree's with you or not and then enjoy the panel.
jmhumr's Avatar jmhumr
09:54 PM Liked: 10
post #750 of 4495
05-20-2007 | Posts: 108
Joined: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

3). Since he had a higher regard for Plasma, at least in the SD mode, I asked him about burn in, particularly black-bar burn in from watching SD. He showed me how the Samsung had an anti-burn in function that scanned the screen to eliminate burnin, and even fix it if it happened. So I ask you, if you had burnin, would this truely work?

Hey again. The first HDTV I bought was a Samsung plasma last September (which I quickly returned). It definitely had noticeable image retention (IR), which supposedly is temporary burn-in that will go away. As you suggest, I had IR issues with the black sidebars from watching SD channels. I quickly tried the anti-burn-in programs on the Samsung TV hoping to "clear" the IR. It helped maybe 25%. I could still see the IR when watching other content, and it really bothered me. In fact, it made me so paranoid of burn-in that I found myself not enjoying the TV at all. The fact that I saw IR with my own eyes and could only trust people's word that it would eventually go away didn't settle with me. That was a huge reason I returned the Samsung plasma and immediately jumped onto the LCD bandwagon. Anyhow, to each his own, but if you're already concerned about burn-in, you could end up like me and be too paranoid to enjoy the TV.

Closed Thread LCD Flat Panel Displays

Subscribe to this Thread

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3