~Official Olevia 747i/742i owners thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5080 Old 03-09-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S!TH!NAT0R View Post

RunOff has supplied some great examples anyway.If ya don't mind man, I'd like to use a couple of those egg shots to email to a senior-tech I'm dealing with at Syntax.That cool?

Not a good idea S!TH. The Sharp thread is filled with people that are required by Sharp to send pictures of their sets with banding for the company to start a swap process. It might come back and bite you in the rear end down the road to submit pictures of a set that is not yours to back-up a claim for your HDTV is defective. Better safe than sorry by submitting pics of your HDTV and your own set of "eggs"... LOL! Do send the pics RunOff took of his set to the Syntax guy as proof that there is more than one set of "eggs" floating around... LOL. OMG, this "egg" thing is gonna become the LCD forum's new catch word after "clouding," "mura" and "banding."
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post #92 of 5080 Old 03-09-2007, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I wasnt going to try pass off his shots as mine by any means.Just like you said, to show them it's a common issue.Plus, I need to show them pics of my set anyway for the 4-corner backlight bleed issue though last I contacted they were ready to process the replacement anyway.He just inquired about pics.Oh, my eggs have been stolen it seems. I just cranked on Term2 & my set of eggs have dissipated even more now than last I posted.I'd say about 90% dissipation since I got the set a week ago.That should be good news for you guys. I guess the set just needed some burn-in time(no pun intended toward plasmas haha).The only issue I have now is the 4-corner bleed.
Also, a bit of a tweak note.I turned on Black Level function for my dvd player,input 'Cinema1' mode which increases black level detail output from the dvd player plus enabled Black Level enhancement in the Olevia747i 'Idea' menu and 'VIOLA!', the balck level detail produced is now substantially improved.

"Very few high-definition TVs achieve that elusive sense of looking out a window but the Syntax-Brillian Olevia 747i is one of them delivering some of the best video images I've seen in a long time." 2007

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post #93 of 5080 Old 03-09-2007, 08:41 PM
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Well it's almost here , it's in HAGERSTOWN MD, I live in Alexandria VA, and yes if these egg things don't burn out, i'm in for an exchange with S!th and anyone that has the same problem, but it sounds like they might disapear after a while.
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post #94 of 5080 Old 03-09-2007, 09:26 PM
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Sure S!TH send the photos along. Anything that might help.

I'm encouraged to hear that your eggs are dissipating, though I'm not finding that to be the case with mine. But, you've got a few days on my unit so we'll see how it goes. I do feel like the right egg has diminished but the left still seems as strong as before.
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post #95 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 08:47 PM
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Dad any update on your set.
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post #96 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 08:50 PM
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My super hasn't put together the stand I bought to move the 27" SD Sony I'm keeping around (for lightgun games and older VHS stuff) from the twin Bell'Oggetti stands where the Olevia 747i will be placed. When he brings the assembled stand (he said it'd be ready by noon today but completely forgot and now I don't think he'll do it until sometime Sunday afternoon ) he also has to help me move the TV's from one stand to the other and the 747i out of its box. So basically I have nothing to report because the TV is still in its box here in the studio apartment. Bummer!
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post #97 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 09:28 PM
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LOL Mine's here in a truck at the local Fedex center, they wouldn't give it to me on a Saturday as they don't unload over the weekend, but I will have mine unboxed on Monday for sure.
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post #98 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 09:36 PM
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I pleased to report roughly 4 days in that my "eggs" have very nearly gone away. I'm keeping an eye on 'em.

Keep laughing techaholic...I think personally that would make me a little bonkers. Stay strong.
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post #99 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 09:44 PM
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Yeah I'm leaning towards thinking pressure of some kind on the panel is causing the egg shaped mark. Which hopefully gradually settles down when the panel heats up and cools with use. So I'm feeling happy that this was a great buy compared to the Sharp and it's banding....

Only one more day to go..... maybe I can get it before they put it on a delivery truck on Monday as the Fedex center is close by..
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post #100 of 5080 Old 03-10-2007, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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That's great to hear RunOff.I'm happy to say that my eggs are completely gone now. The 4-corner backlight bleed seems to have dissipated somewhat as well but still there.

In regard to the 'upconversion' in the sony dvd player overriding the Realta hqv if running in 480p/720p/1080i modes thru hdmi we've discussed earlier in the thread.I'm wondering if the same applies toward my DirecTv HD20 reciever? Is the sat signal being recieved 1080i and passed straight to the tv or is the hd20 sat reciever actually processing upconvert on it's own as well therefore again inhibiting the Realta from it's intended capabilities?? I can't seem to find any clear info on this.

"Very few high-definition TVs achieve that elusive sense of looking out a window but the Syntax-Brillian Olevia 747i is one of them delivering some of the best video images I've seen in a long time." 2007

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post #101 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Nevermind, I've found that 'Native' mode activated with the hr20 reciever disables the upconversion/scaling by the hr20 to the tv therefore letting the Realta handle the signal 100%.

http://www.dbstalk.com/archive/index.php/t-80143.html

1 of 2 resolved.Now I just gotta find a way to do the same with my sony dvd upconverter via hdmi.

"Very few high-definition TVs achieve that elusive sense of looking out a window but the Syntax-Brillian Olevia 747i is one of them delivering some of the best video images I've seen in a long time." 2007

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post #102 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 10:12 AM
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So it has switchable 1:1 pixel mapping - on all inputs or...?

I'm still toying with the idea of this 742i/747i...
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post #103 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 01:17 PM
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Yep, 1:1 is available for any input. Doesn't really do much good for viewing unless you're feeding a 1080i/p signal though. Makes for a fun demonstration of "see, this is the actual picture information that the DVD is sending to the set vs. what HQV does to fill the screen."
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post #104 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 01:41 PM
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HI EVERYONE!

I am following the lead of others and about to defect from the "SHARP CAMP". My next sharp is the last, one way or another. I am looking at the 747i; just read the review. Did some research and Olevia is manufacturing in Ontario, Ca; five miles away, with LCD operations in City of Industry, ten miles away from me. Good to see tvs "MADE IN AMERICA".
LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PRODUCT! I could not find a local dealer to see one though. What about the "eggs"?

THANKS FOR STARTING THIS THREAD AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL!

ALL MY MONEY I SPENT ON AUDIO AND VIDEO; THE REST I JUST WASTED!
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post #105 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunOff View Post

Yep, 1:1 is available for any input. Doesn't really do much good for viewing unless you're feeding a 1080i/p signal though. Makes for a fun demonstration of "see, this is the actual picture information that the DVD is sending to the set vs. what HQV does to fill the screen."


Well, I have ~30 HD channels or so plus NAS streaming box with goods for my HD player which also upconverts - I think 1:1 is an essential feature for me in any TV...
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post #106 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 04:35 PM
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Another food for thought: is this Teranex HQV scaler so much better than scalers in AV receivers? For $1k extra I can buy a terrific receiver...
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post #107 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 07:27 PM
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T2k - OK, well, count me as jealous of all your glorious HD content. I was, of course, speaking from my own extremely lacking in HD content perspective.
I understand the value of 1:1, I just can't really make use of it at this point, so I demo teeny tiney SD material with the 1:1 feature and then wow them with HQVs ability to scale the material.

Re: HQV, it really is that much better than most any current scaling technology. I believe HQV can be found in some high end receivers. I think it's really just a question of where you spend that extra $1k for the technology. The scaling has to happen at some level...the player...the receiver...the display device. You pick. You might be able to get HQV in a receiver and then get a less expensive HDTV that is simply an excellent display and end up with perhaps a better solution than HQV in the 747i. HQV is simply the best scaler on the market right now, (there's a reason that Toshiba and Samsung are putting HQV in their upcoming HD-DVD and BluRay players). Is it "so much better"? Most reviews I've read would have you believe so. If you're happy with the job that another scaler does, then don't get HQV "just because", by all means go with the solution that works for you.

Excellent food for thought. I'd love to hear from S!TH and some of the others that have direct experience with other scaling technologies. The 747i is my first HDTV so I can only speak to the scaling quality of my friend's Sony HDTV with the Bravia scaler, which is acceptable but clearly not of the quality of HQV. My .02.
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post #108 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

Another food for thought: is this Teranex HQV scaler so much better than scalers in AV receivers? For $1k extra I can buy a terrific receiver...

The scalers in consumer AV recorders are absolute trash, no better than you get in most $500 displays. There are a few exceptions, such as the Anthem D2, but these are products costing upwards of $3000.

At the moment, there are only two independent suppliers of video processors that deliver high quality for both SD and HD -- Silicon Optix (ReonVX, Realta) and Gennum (VXP). They are the Nvidia and ATI of the video processor market. The bulk of the market still consists of low-end, low-performance solutions, just as most PCs use integrated graphics. These are complex pieces of silicon; a CE manufacturer like Samsung, Sony, or Toshiba can't create a comparable solution to the Silicon Optix Realta (>100 million transistors) any more than they can create the latest graphics chip from ATI or Nvidia.

In terms of part cost, the video processors in most $1000-$1500 receivers cost $4 to $12. The Silicon Optix ReonVX costs $15-$20 depending on quantity, while the Realta costs $25-$40 depending on quantity. However, the real difference in cost isn't in the part, but rather in the implementation -- most display vendors have extensive experience with cheap, low-quality solutions from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), but no experience with more modern solutions from Silicon Optix and Gennum. That's not at all surprising, since Genesis (Faroudja) has used minor variations of the same technology for the past five years; they haven't spent the resources to develop a new architecture. By contrast, the latest consumer video processor solutions from Gennum and Silicon Optix are less than a year old.

Manufacturers already have all the firmware code (i.e. graphics drivers) they need to implement a cheap, low-performance solution from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), so it can be difficult to justify the cost -- and delay in time to market -- to engineer the firmware (graphics driver) and implementation for a completely new video processor architecture. Of course, Silicon Optix and Gennum offer reference implementations (source code), but it's still quite a task to properly integrate that code with the software platform used by the TV. With most modern displays, CE manufacturers are using display processors whose architectures were designed well before we even had 1080p panels, with video firmware (driver software) created years ago -- and you wonder why scaling quality sucks?

Denon is supposed to release one or more high-end receivers later this year with Silicon Optix HQV processing. Many expect (hope?) this technology will filter down to their mid-range products in the next year. If other manufacturers had any sense, they would be doing the same, rather than sticking with the PC equivalent of integrated graphics that simply will not remain a competitive solution in anything but the cheapest displays.
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post #109 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 11:03 PM
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No pictures today (maybe tomorrow) but don't count on them looking pretty since they're coming from an analog Mini-DV video camera with a light aperture that's total s***. Today I'll just share with you my first few hours with my new 747i LCD, the second-best thing that happened to me today (first was those uber-losers Rob and Amber getting eliminated from "Amazing Race: All-Stars" )

My building super finally came Sunday at noon and brought the stand for my 27" SD Sony, which means it was time to unpack the Olevia 747i to put it where the SD TV used to be. Ran into a problem early on though: with the stand and bottom-mounted speakers the screen of the 747i is much higher than the eye-level view I had with the 27" Sony, kind-of like sitting in one of the first rows of a movie theater looking up at the screen. This might work with plasma but not with LCD's and their optimal dead-center issues. So temporarily the 747i is sitting on the stand built for the 27" Sony, which can support up to 176 pounds (the 747i weighs 142) and gives me a dead-center view of the screen. Even though the plastic base doesn't inspire confidence so far the 747i doesn't appear to be in any danger of tipping over. Maybe if I get the speaker kit to mount the speakers on the side I will lower the TV on its pedestal and move it on top of my twin Bell'Oggatti stands, which are currently holding a bunch of disconncted components and the old SD TV (which I'm keeping for old lightgun games like "Time Crisis" and "House of the Dead").

I've had the TV on since 2PM Sunday afternoon (still on as of 2:06 AM Monday ) and its official: I HAVE "EGGS" AND BIG TIME LIGHT LEAKAGE ON ALL FOUR CORNERS OF THE SCREEN, just like RunOff's and S!TH's TV sets. The light leakage is confined to the corners of the screen and look a little like the infamous "clouds" from Sony and Samsung fame, although nowhere near as noticeable. I can only see the "eggs" and leaked light when there's a black screen without an input, and they stand out in a brightly lit room as much as a dark one (tried with both). But before you panic listen to this: whenever there's any signal on the screen (even dark movies like the end of Star Wars: The Return of the Jedi when Luke and Darth go at it with the lightsabers) the presence of the "eggs" and leaked light is minimal to non-existent. When the picture is normal non-dark stuff the "eggs" and light leakage disappear and are not an issue or distraction whatsoever. No "banding" whatsoever, and the set's assembly date dates back to December of '06 (not listed on the outside of the panel but it appears when you set the clock and/or check the TV's OS version).

Another thing is that despite not being listed this set has the equivalent of a QAM tuner. My 747i can pick HD and SD channels if you feed it the coaxial cable that carries cable signals. Most of the 409 digital channels the tuner picked were dead/blank but a few were HD. The ATSC tuner picked up quite a few local HD stations here in NYC; the first HD my virgin eyes ever saw were CBS' coverage of the Arkansas NCAA game (ATSC tuner) and NBC Golf (QAM) with PIP. Other than a lot of audio skips and a slight lip-synch delay on the basketball game (the 747i offers an option under audio to adjust lip-synch) they were both eye-opening. BTW, you can swap audio/change source in a PIP window without having to swap to the "hot" primary screen. Press the side arrows on the circle at the center of the remote while in PIP or Split-Screen; by changing the "pink" surrounding edge you can determine which screen gets the audio, which input and (if the selected input is a tuner) what channel is on. This is a similar feature that the Mitsubishi LT-46131/231 1080p LCD's offer. Too bad that, unlike the Mitsu's awesome size variations for the Split-Screen windows, the Split-Screen screens are nearly identical in size. The only screens that you can increase in size are the PIP screens. Also, if you chooe Aspect for one source and that source becomes PIP/Split then the window will be deformed to keep the entire picture within the aspect ratio; choose Full Screen when using PIP/Split-Scren, and the screen will not be deformed and look excellent.

My apartment was flooded with light from its single window, yet the LCD picture was clear and not the least bit reflective. The bezel around the 747i looks like its going to be a hall of mirrors when the TV is off, but once the picture's on the all-black surrounding bezel does its thing. What wasn't eye-opening was the off-viewing angle when watching the 747i from beyond just a few angles off-center. Stand up and walk a little to the side or in front of it so you're looking down on the screen and it ain't pretty. This is an universal weakness of most LCD's, and the 747i is no exception.

Black levels are OK compared with other 1,600:1 contrast ratio LCD's or SD tube, neither terrible or excellent. The settings on the 747i for brightness and contrat are very low and high, respectively. Increasing the brightness even just a little results in a freaking lighthouse in my apartment, with contrast only doing so much. To be perfectly honest if black and contrast ratio is important to you then the Sharp D92U (provided you can find one without banding) or the upcoming Toshiba and Samsung LCD's for later in '07 will probably be better at rendering blacks. Its not that the 747i has Westinghouse or Toshiba-caliber bad black/contrast (it doesn't) but its definitely aimed at HDTV customers that are satisfied with the blacks of the current models, not fence-sitters waiting for a quantum leap in contrast ratios. I've tweaked the TV around here and there but not much because every setting is pretty much OK right out of the box. Make sure you select Dark, Medium or Bright Room lighting before tweaking, or you may get a misguided or incorrect setting that will mess with other inputs. And yes, not having numbers to signal what settings we're all coming with (only bars that increase/decrease without numbers) makes the sharing of personal preferences with colors/temperature/brightness/etc. a royal pain in the derriere.

Next thing I hooked an HD-DVR (component) with an HD recording of the Klitschko fight on HBO over the weekend. For the life of me I cannot get the HD box to allow for "native" signal to pass through. The box "upscales" everything to 1080i, which worked well with the boxing match but makes me question whether I'm feeding the 747i the optimal feed to watch SD. For what's its worth SD digital cable looks excellent on this TV. Golf Channel, local stations, Game Show Network, Comedy Central... they all looked a little worse than my SD TV but most definitely watchable.

OK classic videogame and Picture-in-Picture whores, the next two paragraphs all for you. I spent a number of hours randomly testing older videogame systems to see if I could split signals on PIP. I'll post pictures tomorrow and I didn't get to test the XBox 360 or the HD-DVD (that's for Monday) but so far the TV has displayed games from: Turbo Duo, Genesis, SNES, 3DO, Saturn and Nintendo 64 (the TV has problems with games enhanced with the 4MB RAM Pak for high definition I think; games like "Resident Evil 2" that were using it went nuts after a few minutes). There's a catch though: some systems (mainly SNES and Nintendo 64) will not be displayed by themselves on the screen; you have to activate PIP or Split-Screen for the game to be displayed. Example: "Mario Kart" on N64 would not appear on composite 1 input even though I could hear it (although "Road Rash" for 3DO gave both picture and sound). I had to go to PIP/Split and Swap with another input (like Tuner 1) so the primary signal isn't from the videogame system anymore. Once on PIP/Split the videogame picture will appear, and using the pointer circle in the remote you can switch audio from one source to the next. This sadly means that, unless its just my TV or some fluke code fluke, you won't be able to use all 47" of the screen on some older videogame systems. Do not think of getting a videogame on the bigger of the two screens (i.e. the primary) when playing in either PIP or Split-Screen with other sources. The TV will just lose the picture and keep the sound when you do that. Also with some videogame systems/games (like 3DO) and SD sources the 1:1 pixel mapping of the game will result in a much smaller screen than 47" (like 15"-20") that doesn't distort the picture; you can blow it up to Full Screen to fill the screen, which looks better but its nice to have an option to see an older videogame/SD signal in a reduced but not distorted space that I haven't seen on many HDTV's. The Final Cut Pro Apple Cinema computer monitor at the place I work offers it, but that's a professional editing monitor.

For what it's worth the 8m response time with older games was pretty good: 3DO "Road Rash," Turbo Duo "Castlevania X," N64 "Mario Kart 64" & "Goldeneye 007," Genesis "Sonic"... I played them all and my rustiness with the games was more dangerous than any delay from the inputs. There's an option to activate "Game Mode" that supposedly improves on the response time and PQ of games, for for the life of me I didn't sense a noticeable improvement versus the regular modes (and remember: Game Mode disables PIP, which you need to get some older games to be displayed on the secondary input of the 747i's PIP. Or you could just say "the hell with it" and hook the older games to older tube TV's and not bother with the PIP trick.

[UPDATE (4/28/08): I re-tested older games/systems on the system and it turns out I was dead wrong. You can play older consoles on the 747i full screen if you follow a certain protocol when hooking up the system. Click here for more details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post13725634 then keep reading the next five or so pages for more posts with pictures proving the 747i's dexterity handling older game consoles].

Pictures backing all of this up will be posted tomorrow IF they don't look as bad as I think they will. So far I'm 90% satisfied with my purchase and intend to keep it. The PIP flexibility is second only to the Mitsu (and in some instances it matches or surpasses it), the speakers are L-O-U-D (not surround system loud but better than the tinny speakers in Samsung HDTV's) and 47" look much bigger than I thought in the privacy of my own home. Part of me is glad I didn't go to 52" without losing the Realta HQV alliance; SD at 52" without Realta de-interlacing = gouging one's own eyes out. Later with more hands-on details.
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post #110 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 11:08 PM
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Next thing I hooked an HD-DVR (component) with an HD recording of the Klitschko fight on HBO over the weekend. For the life of me I cannot get the HD box to allow for "native" signal to pass through. The box "upscales" everything to 1080i, which worked well with the boxing match but makes me question whether I'm feeding the 747i the optimal feed to watch SD. For what's its worth SD digital cable looks excellent on this TV. Golf Channel, local stations, Game Show Network, Comedy Central... they all looked a little worse than my SD TV but most definitely watchable.

Post the make and model of your DVR and someone can provide you instructions on how to enable native.

With Scientific Atlanta DVRs with SARA, you turn off the box and press and hold down the info and guide buttons at the same time. Select advanced setup and enable only 4:3 480i, 720p, and 1080i. Exit, then go to Settings -> Settings from the main menu and enable AutoDVI/AutoHDMI. When component output is used, the option is called passthrough.

With Motorola DVRs, you turn off the box and press menu. Set the box to output 1080i and enable the 4:3 override (passthrough) option set to 480i.
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post #111 of 5080 Old 03-11-2007, 11:24 PM
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With Scientific Atlanta DVRs with SARA, you turn off the box and press and hold down the info and guide buttons at the same time. Select advanced setup and enable only 4:3 480i, 720p, and 1080i. Exit, then go to Settings -> Settings from the main menu and enable AutoDVI/AutoHDMI. When component output is used, the option is called passthrough.

It is a SA 8300 HD-DVR box, but I'm not sure it it's a SARA OS inside. The menu that allows me to change "Stretch" and "Normal" prompts me to use a "Bypass" button, but the remote control doesn't have a "Bypass" button. I'd also like to see if I can change the pillars when viewing 4:3 material to black from its current gray color... very distracting.
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post #112 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 12:33 AM
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Thanks for all the answers.

Would any of you owners be so kind and upload the manual (PDF on your CD-ROM)? It's not available anywhere online.
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post #113 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 01:58 AM
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Got my 747i on Friday and also noticed egg-shaped clouds. They are most prominent when there is no signal or the signal is uniformly black. I tried to upload the picture but the forum software reported an error.
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post #114 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 06:22 AM
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OK, that's four owners (dmkara, S!TH, RunOff and myself) reporting "eggs" and light leakage from the corners. Anyone want to bet Techaholic will be #5?

Surprisingly I don't find myself upset or in quick need of a replacement. Might change in a few days/weeks if the flaws get magnified but I cannot emphasize enough how NOT visible these "eggs" and light bleeds are when watching any content other than a very, very dark movie/TV show. Even then the screen would have to pitch dark for the "eggs" and lights to be visible, let alone distracting. Of course YMMV based on your set of criteria and tolerance for this sort of thing. Ohh, and I checked and double-checked my LCD with the ol' peepers and didn't find any visible or noticeable dead pixels. No bands whatsoever also: white, blue and green screens have filled the 47" set and not one has shown anything remotely resembling an "egg" or banding.

Just checked the video I took and it looks better than I thought. Time at work permitting I'll upload some pics from the video later tonight, the first batch of many as I delve further into the compatibility of the 747i with all sorts of unorthodox sources. Stay tuned!
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post #115 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RunOff View Post

T2k - OK, well, count me as jealous of all your glorious HD content. I was, of course, speaking from my own extremely lacking in HD content perspective.
I understand the value of 1:1, I just can't really make use of it at this point, so I demo teeny tiney SD material with the 1:1 feature and then wow them with HQVs ability to scale the material.

Re: HQV, it really is that much better than most any current scaling technology. I believe HQV can be found in some high end receivers. I think it's really just a question of where you spend that extra $1k for the technology. The scaling has to happen at some level...the player...the receiver...the display device. You pick. You might be able to get HQV in a receiver and then get a less expensive HDTV that is simply an excellent display and end up with perhaps a better solution than HQV in the 747i. HQV is simply the best scaler on the market right now, (there's a reason that Toshiba and Samsung are putting HQV in their upcoming HD-DVD and BluRay players). Is it "so much better"? Most reviews I've read would have you believe so. If you're happy with the job that another scaler does, then don't get HQV "just because", by all means go with the solution that works for you.

Excellent food for thought. I'd love to hear from S!TH and some of the others that have direct experience with other scaling technologies. The 747i is my first HDTV so I can only speak to the scaling quality of my friend's Sony HDTV with the Bravia scaler, which is acceptable but clearly not of the quality of HQV. My .02.


Purchasing the Realta in another receiver would certainly bypass the only obvious bottleneck in the 7 series, namely the LG panel's difficulty with blacks and dynamic contrast, and now possible backlight bleeed issues.

Indeed, there are other products out there utilizing the Realta, including some projectors.
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post #116 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RunOff View Post

T2k - OK, well, count me as jealous of all your glorious HD content. I was, of course, speaking from my own extremely lacking in HD content perspective.
I understand the value of 1:1, I just can't really make use of it at this point, so I demo teeny tiney SD material with the 1:1 feature and then wow them with HQVs ability to scale the material.

Re: HQV, it really is that much better than most any current scaling technology. I believe HQV can be found in some high end receivers. I think it's really just a question of where you spend that extra $1k for the technology. The scaling has to happen at some level...the player...the receiver...the display device. You pick. You might be able to get HQV in a receiver and then get a less expensive HDTV that is simply an excellent display and end up with perhaps a better solution than HQV in the 747i. HQV is simply the best scaler on the market right now, (there's a reason that Toshiba and Samsung are putting HQV in their upcoming HD-DVD and BluRay players). Is it "so much better"? Most reviews I've read would have you believe so. If you're happy with the job that another scaler does, then don't get HQV "just because", by all means go with the solution that works for you.

Excellent food for thought. I'd love to hear from S!TH and some of the others that have direct experience with other scaling technologies. The 747i is my first HDTV so I can only speak to the scaling quality of my friend's Sony HDTV with the Bravia scaler, which is acceptable but clearly not of the quality of HQV. My .02.

I'm not aware of any receiver with Realta, that's why I was asking about its quality. However the only downside is this egg&corner problem AFAIK (HDMI v1.3 would only make sense if the new Samsung could display 48-bit color which I highly doubt in case of any LCD panel though Samsungs have certainly better panels than LG-Philips panels the 742i747i built upon.).
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post #117 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 08:23 AM
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The scalers in consumer AV recorders are absolute trash, no better than you get in most $500 displays. There are a few exceptions, such as the Anthem D2, but these are products costing upwards of $3000.

At the moment, there are only two independent suppliers of video processors that deliver high quality for both SD and HD -- Silicon Optix (ReonVX, Realta) and Gennum (VXP). They are the Nvidia and ATI of the video processor market. The bulk of the market still consists of low-end, low-performance solutions, just as most PCs use integrated graphics. These are complex pieces of silicon; a CE manufacturer like Samsung, Sony, or Toshiba can't create a comparable solution to the Silicon Optix Realta (>100 million transistors) any more than they can create the latest graphics chip from ATI or Nvidia.

In terms of part cost, the video processors in most $1000-$1500 receivers cost $4 to $12. The Silicon Optix ReonVX costs $15-$20 depending on quantity, while the Realta costs $25-$40 depending on quantity. However, the real difference in cost isn't in the part, but rather in the implementation -- most display vendors have extensive experience with cheap, low-quality solutions from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), but no experience with more modern solutions from Silicon Optix and Gennum. That's not at all surprising, since Genesis (Faroudja) has used minor variations of the same technology for the past five years; they haven't spent the resources to develop a new architecture. By contrast, the latest consumer video processor solutions from Gennum and Silicon Optix are less than a year old.

Manufacturers already have all the firmware code (i.e. graphics drivers) they need to implement a cheap, low-performance solution from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), so it can be difficult to justify the cost -- and delay in time to market -- to engineer the firmware (graphics driver) and implementation for a completely new video processor architecture. Of course, Silicon Optix and Gennum offer reference implementations (source code), but it's still quite a task to properly integrate that code with the software platform used by the TV. With most modern displays, CE manufacturers are using display processors whose architectures were designed well before we even had 1080p panels, with video firmware (driver software) created years ago -- and you wonder why scaling quality sucks?

Thanks for your detailed answer. OF course I've heard of Teranex, I think I have even seen it at some show but I didn't know anything about AV receiver scalers (though it made me thinking why they don't brag about their scaling on their spec page too much...)

Quote:


Denon is supposed to release one or more high-end receivers later this year with Silicon Optix HQV processing. Many expect (hope?) this technology will filter down to their mid-range products in the next year. If other manufacturers had any sense, they would be doing the same, rather than sticking with the PC equivalent of integrated graphics that simply will not remain a competitive solution in anything but the cheapest displays.

Denon has a pretty bad CS reputation and unless they would offer something at aa very great price - highly unlikely as IMO Denon mostly caters the snobbish rich, overcharging them as hell -, I won't buy any Denon.

It seems the only possible better solution would be some very expensive - $5-10k as a cheaper one (ie Dragonly) usually doesn't have as much inputs as 747i offers - external scaler and the upcoming LN-T4665f/4666f Samsung combo but it would start around $10K which I would never spend on a TV, that's for sure.

PS: hmm... http://www.thehighdefinitionstore.co...tuner-241.html new Samsung 4665f for only $2,7xx... hmm... even if 747i would be selling at the same price I'd be torn...
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post #118 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 08:39 AM
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Thanks for all the answers.

Would any of you owners be so kind and upload the manual (PDF on your CD-ROM)? It's not available anywhere online.

Pretty please...?
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post #119 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 08:58 AM
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LOL Mine's here in a truck at the local Fedex center, they wouldn't give it to me on a Saturday as they don't unload over the weekend, but I will have mine unboxed on Monday for sure.

Note to self...Go Knock off Fed Ex Truck and take Tech's TV...

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post #120 of 5080 Old 03-12-2007, 09:03 AM
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Good luck getting anywhere with a 172 pound box that's bulkier than Rosie O'Donnell coming from the buffet line!
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