Official Samsung LN-T4061F/LN-T4065F/LN-T4661F/LN-T4665F/LN-T5265F Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

Camper. Ok so I downloaded the graw demo and turned it on with my 360 connected via components with 1080p enabled and I do have to say that there is overscan...
JUST KIDDING. From you pic mine does not look like that. It looks like you have about 2percent overscan on your tv. On the 4066f almost the whole blue border is visible. the 4 corners are cut off. I thought maybe there was some overscan issues but I put the tv in 4:3 mode just to make sure and the picture looked exactly as it should. I also looked at some pics of graw in action on google and my tv looked exactly as in the pictures. So ya no overscan...

Dude. Thank you SO much for taking the time to do that for us

Unfortunately, it does sound like you have a tiny bit of overscan.

Here is what GRAW looks like without overscan:
http://www.xboxic.com/wp-content/upl.../03/GRAW-3.jpg

Here is what graw looks like on the Sammy LN-S4696D with 2% overscan (scroll down a few pictures):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hd#post8620505


I sounds like your TV is overscanning on component about as much as the LN-S4696D. Which is actually way way less overscan than I have on my Sony Tube. I so need a new TV.
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post #182 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

The PS3 has outputs for the optical cable (that's the cable I meant to say). Anyhow,
if you have a Surround system, then hook that cable up and then in the audio settings
of the PS3, Choose Manual and then de-select 5.1, DTS, etc. Just keep the default
PCM options on the PS3. Now, for your TV, you might have to tell it that the input
is PCM as opposed to 5.1 digital. My TV kinda requires that (Sharp d43U) but I am
not sure if that's the norm.

*IF* you don't have a surround system, you can still use the HDMI cable for audio,
but instead of having the PS3 automatically select it for you, manually set it yourself
(same idea, Audio Settings -> HDMI -> Manual -> Deselect 5.1, DTS, etc).

*IF* you still find you have problems using audio via HDMI, then your only hope would
be the regular Multi/AV cable that Sony gives you (yellow/red/blue RCA cable). In
the audio menu on your PC, you'd do the following:

Audio Settings -> Multi/AV Out -> Auto (These cables don't do digital audio anyhow).

Hope this helps. I ran into the same exact prob on my Sharp 37D43U TV as well.
It's just the damned PS3 screwing things up. BTW, grab the latest firmware upgrade
as we can now queue downloads and use BlueTooth Keyboard/Mouse.

Why not use component cables and the optical? You don't need to disable anything and you can have the kick-ass dd and dts.
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post #183 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isucamper View Post

Dude. Thank you SO much for taking the time to do that for us

Unfortunately, it does sound like you have a tiny bit of overscan.

Here is what GRAW looks like without overscan:
http://www.xboxic.com/wp-content/upl.../03/GRAW-3.jpg

Here is what graw looks like on the Sammy LN-S4696D with 2% overscan (scroll down a few pictures):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hd#post8620505


I sounds like your TV is overscanning on component about as much as the LN-S4696D. Which is actually way way less overscan than I have on my Sony Tube. I so need a new TV.

I see you are pretty serious about the overscan and it could really irk someone... I sent you a PM but for everyone else wondering, through the components, there is some over scan. Not like in the picture that camper is displaying. On my tv, it is just barely the four corners of the blue hud. Much less than 2%. I would say like. .5%...
On vga I do not have overscan I have 1:1 and on hdmi I use just scan which gives me 1:1. Not able to enable just scan on the componets. If you put your xbox to 480p and play the above graw one demo, then put it on the 1080p components, you will see a fraction of the gaming screen cut off. Not even close enough to bother me but might bother someone else. As long as I have 1:1 on pc and hdmi, I am happy. Most of the time I am staring at the middle of the screen anyways cause that is where my cross hairs are. LOL

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post #184 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eimajnacnud View Post

Why not use component cables and the optical? You don't need to disable anything and you can have the kick-ass dd and dts.

It's because the PS3 actually looks a WHOLE LOT BETTER on the HDMI than the
component cable. I've tried both, and, especially for 1080P, the difference is quite
huge. Also, you can't watch Blu-Ray movies in Hi-def on the component cables,
so it's kinda important for Sony to get their act together and fix the damned HDMI output.
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post #185 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

It's because the PS3 actually looks a WHOLE LOT BETTER on the HDMI than the
component cable. I've tried both, and, especially for 1080P, the difference is quite
huge. Also, you can't watch Blu-Ray movies in Hi-def on the component cables,
so it's kinda important for Sony to get their act together and fix the damned HDMI output.

Glad I waited on the whole PS3 hoopla and got myself a Wii. 480 lines of progressive godness...lol

Anyways. Just found my AVIA disk. Wont work on xbox. Gonna make a copy of it and see if that works. Then I will put it in my xbox and see how much overscan there is on component.... Stay tuned. Keep those fingers crossed...

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post #186 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

If it's there, expect more reports of clouding.
Too soon to rest those personal fears.

Hopefully some of our new owners will be able to post clouding pics such as in the Sony clouding thread. Totally dark room, overexpose (a few seconds of exposure usually is enough) until the pic shows the nonuniform screen on null input.

The swapping begins ...

Honestly though, overexposing makes anything look like ass. If someone has to turn the backlight up to the max and overexpose a pic to see clouding then I'd say they are really stretching to find something wrong.

I have turned to the dark side, it is blu........ and I like it.

But I still bleed HD red...
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post #187 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Freak View Post

Honestly though, overexposing makes anything look like ass. If someone has to turn the backlight up to the max and overexpose a pic to see clouding then I'd say they are really stretching to find something wrong.

lol, typical AVS style though...time for everyone to break out every method possible to find something wrong. Personally, i just ordered the 4661, and from everything i've seen posted so far it looks damn good for a great price.

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post #188 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:08 PM
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Background:
About 40 days ago I picked up a Samsung 4695D at CC and was blown away by the PQ. Once I dimmed the lights and played a movie I saw clouds and lots of them (note that at the time I didn't even know those white spots were called clouds here). Tried another one, same thing. Tried a Sharp 42D62 with ghost bars and finally gave up.

After coming here and reading about the problems, I thought i could be the lucky guy and get a cloud/band-free set, so I went back to CC and got another 4695D. Clouds! Then I've tried a Sharp 46D62 that had clouds AND bands!!! Then a 42d62 again that was alsmost good but with a little banding during normal viewing. Then reading here I tried the mitsubinhi which was prob the worst set I had tried, for several reasons. Tired yet? I am... drained... and I probably didn't list every single TV I've tried...
-----
Just got a T4665F from BB a few hours ago. By far the best PQ I've ever seen and the quality of the set is just phenomenal! HD is great. Colors just look right! No popping or washed, just right!

This 46" is actually lighter than the 42" sharp! I even like that strange light in the center...

And no it's not perfect! It's an LCD after all. backlight isn't 100% uniform, but it is certainly good enough and I see absolutely nothing wrong during normal viewing (even in dark/bright scenes). Since wife and I watch a lot of movies in low light conditions, clouding is a show stopper for us. I can attest I see no clouding.

Things I noticed so far:
1. Menu looks great, but it is a little annoying by demanding you push enter all the time.
2. Very detailed settings, but individual color controls didn't do anything I could notice .
3. However, the colors are very accurate, didn't have to anything special to get great colors. Avia DVD suggests the Green is a little off.
4. Black levels are great and I do see shadow details very well. (even with backlight at 0 - which I like)

I have 0 (zero) dead or stuck pixel!

I have one single concern though: xxYCC isn't working for me. Maybe I just don't know what it does. BUt when I turn it on the screen gets purple, no matter the source.

SOurces:
Comcast Cable via Component (HD and SD) (HD is perfect SD is SD)
Panasonic S97 DVD player via HDMI - Superbit Fifth Element looked almost as good as HD.
PS3 via HDMI - PQ is just perfect with the usual HDMI handshaking issues. Never had freezes or loss of sgnal though, just a second or two hiccups.

hope I don't have to say the pics look way worse than what I see here...
some pics: (low light conditions - like total darkness)
So, what's the veredict?
LL
LL
LL
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post #189 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:09 PM
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More pics: (think the camera is trying to compensate for the lack of light though)
LL
LL
LL
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post #190 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:21 PM
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that blotch in the center is funny ive never seen a cloud like that i doubt it is maybe just a mark on the screen or something to do with the cAMera

there are faint clouds
in the third pic i think

i dunno im not expert but that blotch in the lower center does not look like clouding
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post #191 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmizzionz View Post

These next 3 are from the show Rome in SD

This image gave me hope that the bad SD is from my cablebox and not the set...if you can notice at the bottom of the left you see the distortion while you cant on the right since the image is scaled automatically.


Boy - SD on the Sammys is really getting knocked. How was the cable box sending the SD signal to the TV, native or was is doing some sort of upscalling? Is there distortion right in the middle of the ladies face going across both the screens as well?

Thanks for the pictures...

KO
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post #192 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSET View Post

that blotch in the center is funny ive never seen a cloud like that i doubt it is maybe just a mark on the screen or something to do with the cAMera

there are faint clouds
in the third pic i think

i dunno im not expert but that blotch in the lower center does not look like clouding

That is the camera all right, prob the aiming light got partially reflected.

Yep, 3rd pic has backlight at 10 (full) which I don't like in general (regardless of clouds or not).
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post #193 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guima View Post

Background:
About 40 days ago I picked up a Samsung 4695D at CC and was blown away by the PQ. Once I dimmed the lights and played a movie I saw clouds and lots of them (note that at the time I didn't even know those white spots were called clouds here). Tried another one, same thing. Tried a Sharp 42D62 with ghost bars and finally gave up.

After coming here and reading about the problems, I thought i could be the lucky guy and get a cloud/band-free set, so I went back to CC and got another 4695D. Clouds! Then I've tried a Sharp 46D62 that had clouds AND bands!!! Then a 42d62 again that was alsmost good but with a little banding during normal viewing. Then reading here I tried the mitsubinhi which was prob the worst set I had tried, for several reasons. Tired yet? I am... drained... and I probably didn't list every single TV I've tried...
-----
Just got a T4665F from BB a few hours ago. By far the best PQ I've ever seen and the quality of the set is just phenomenal! HD is great. Colors just look right! No popping or washed, just right!

This 46" is actually lighter than the 42" sharp! I even like that strange light in the center...

And no it's not perfect! It's an LCD after all. backlight isn't 100% uniform, but it is certainly good enough and I see absolutely nothing wrong during normal viewing (even in dark/bright scenes). Since wife and I watch a lot of movies in low light conditions, clouding is a show stopper for us. I can attest I see no clouding.

Things I noticed so far:
1. Menu looks great, but it is a little annoying by demanding you push enter all the time.
2. Very detailed settings, but individual color controls didn't do anything I could notice .
3. However, the colors are very accurate, didn't have to anything special to get great colors. Avia DVD suggests the Green is a little off.
4. Black levels are great and I do see shadow details very well. (even with backlight at 0 - which I like)

I have 0 (zero) dead or stuck pixel!

I have one single concern though: xxYCC isn't working for me. Maybe I just don't know what it does. BUt when I turn it on the screen gets purple, no matter the source.

SOurces:
Comcast Cable via Component (HD and SD) (HD is perfect SD is SD)
Panasonic S97 DVD player via HDMI - Superbit Fifth Element looked almost as good as HD.
PS3 via HDMI - PQ is just perfect with the usual HDMI handshaking issues. Never had freezes or loss of sgnal though, just a second or two hiccups.

hope I don't have to say the pics look way worse than what I see here...
some pics: (low light conditions - like total darkness)
So, what's the veredict?

Hmmm...is that Samsung's version of banding in that grey screen? What are those 2 wide vertical lines doing there? Can anyone verify what that grey screen is doing?
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post #194 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:00 PM
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For what it's worth, the sound on the 4066F blows the doors off of the sound on the 4061F. The 2.1 Dome Surround Sound or whatever it's called is outstanding. The volume on the 4061F is just plain weak, hollow, and flat. The 4066F is rich, vibrant, and quite powerful for an LCD. Having the speakers on the sides instead of on the bottom makes a big difference as well. I'm more than impressed. Most of us have home theaters, but in my case 90% of the TVs use will be using the TV's speakers (normal cable programming).
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post #195 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guima View Post

Just got a T4665F from BB a few hours ago. By far the best PQ I've ever seen and the quality of the set is just phenomenal!... backlight isn't 100% uniform, but it is certainly good enough and I see absolutely nothing wrong during normal viewing (even in dark/bright scenes). Since wife and I watch a lot of movies in low light conditions, clouding is a show stopper for us. I can attest I see no clouding.

Things I noticed so far:
4. Black levels are great and I do see shadow details very well. (even with backlight at 0 - which I like)

So, what's the veredict?

Excellent report, from someone who knows what the Hell they are doing !!!

Great pics.
Pics tell the story, Samsung has fixed this problem, at least on some sets !!!

Nice to hear blacks appear not to be crushed !!!!

I am convinced you have a WINNER !!!!

One Q: How about the glare? Do you see yourself watching TV?
How's the motion handling, 10 bit color? Old Sammy's are good at this.

Time to order a Sammy, don't have to have banding on the brain any longer.
No Clouds [EDIT, well close enough]- definitive Proof!!
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post #196 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall110 View Post

For what it's worth, the sound on the 4066F blows the doors off of the sound on the 4061F. The 2.1 Dome Surround Sound or whatever it's called is outstanding. The volume on the 4061F is just plain weak, hollow, and flat. The 4066F is rich, vibrant, and quite powerful for an LCD. Having the speakers on the sides instead of on the bottom makes a big difference as well. I'm more than impressed. Most of us have home theaters, but in my case 90% of the TVs use will be using the TV's speakers (normal cable programming).

I thought both 61F and 66F have speakers on the bottom while 65F models have speakers on the sides!

Go 24
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post #197 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_1080p View Post

Excellent report, from someone who knows what the Hell they are doing !!!

Great pics.
Pics tell the story, Samsung has fixed this problem, at least on some sets !!!

Nice to hear blacks appear not to be crushed !!!!

I am convinced you have a WINNER !!!!

One Q: How about the glare? Do you see yourself watching TV?
How's the motion handling, 10 bit color? Old Sammy's are good at this.

Time to order a Sammy, don't have to have banding on the brain any longer.
No Clouds [EDIT, well close enough]- definitive Proof!!

I too have been bitten by the banded-clouded sharp sets

I am looking to get this set as soon as I can get a refund from sharp.

This is very exciting to finally see that we might have a set that is free from these defects.

I have turned to the dark side, it is blu........ and I like it.

But I still bleed HD red...
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post #198 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:23 PM
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Thanks Mark. I do see myself if the screen is dark (ex no feed), doesn't bother me one bit though. I haven't tried daylight just yet, however. Also, forgot to mention the sounds is significantly better than the other LCDs I tried.

Lipcrkr, i did noticed those as well. That is the darkest gray screen from AVIA's system evaluation section (first). They do not show in normal viewing conditions however.

I've also noticed it, I'd call it bleeding (IMO banding is way worse and you cannot miss it even in normal viewing conditions - cause it distorts the picture), when I had a dark blue background (eg when PS3 store is loading). Funny thing is that it does change when I position myself rght in front of the brighter spots (the sides). Also, contrast, brightness, and backlight level affect those as well. Anyway, like I said, backlight isn't 100% uniform (is it even possible on an LCD).

Some more pics might get one right by mere accident...
LL
LL
LL
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post #199 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:31 PM
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No light has a cirlcle in the center what is that ?
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post #200 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus2007 View Post

I thought both 61F and 66F have speakers on the bottom while 65F models have speakers on the sides!


Oops, my mistake. That's how much better the sound is over the 4061F. The 4061F actually sounded like the sound was coming from the bottom of the set whereas the 4066F has an all encompassing feel (2.1 Dome Surround).
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post #201 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonngo0 View Post

No light has a cirlcle in the center what is that ?

Don't worry about that, it's the camera can't help it.
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post #202 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guima View Post

Lipcrkr, i did noticed those as well.

Yes, the bright columns on the outer edges are evident in the dark grey (first) pic, but they do seem rather gradual, and you said dark scenes are fine, so that's good enough for me.

Some of that could be a "limb effect". If you are fairly close to the TV while photographing, and centered, the outer edges will be brighter since you are viewing those areas off axis. Now you might expect a circular pattern, but I did take a pic of my Sharp and I could see the same effect. Moving the camera much farther away and zooming will reduce it, if that is what it is.

My 32" Sharp is nearly perfectly uniform, viewed in person from a distance.
My LC-32d7U from about 6 feet:
LL
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post #203 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:54 PM
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I was going to purchase a Pioneer plasma, but went for the LCD after doing some research and in store demo's.

I bought the T4661FX (Don't know what the X is for, just assuming its the same as the T4661F) from Vanns.com. It has shipped and should be here today (23rd).

I don't know how many owners there already are, but I got my camera ready to go to take pics if needed.

And if anyone is interested in what I am connecting it:
HTPC via VGA (going to either buy a video card that has HDMI out, or a DVI to HDMI cable)
X360 via Component
PS3 via HDMI
Toshiba HD-A2 via HDMI
Wii via Component
DLO iPod Dock via S-Video
OTA HD via Antenna (FOX, NBC, CBS, WB, thats all I get)
Standard cable (getting a digital box or Dish soon)
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post #204 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus2007 View Post

I thought both 61F and 66F have speakers on the bottom while 65F models have speakers on the sides!

I know that my speakers are on the bottom. But he is right. They do sound pretty damn good compared to my sharp unit that I had. No rattling when the sound is too loud...

Sounds like the 61f is the low end with 10000:1
And the 65f and 66f are the high end of the units

With the 65f you get side mounted speakers with black matte finish.
With the 66f you get bottom mounted speakers with glossy black finish.
Both with 15000:1 and glossy screen.

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post #205 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Freak View Post

I am looking to get this set as soon as I can get a refund from sharp.

Hope they don't give you a hard time, I have to give Sharp CS credit for trying, but like I posted, they simply have nothing to work with, no band-free samples.
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post #206 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 11:34 PM
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i got a lnt4665f tonite. out of the box, it is a great looking television. the screen is kinda glary though, but it doesnt bother me. this is my 1st lcd besides the sharp that i just took back and it looks alot nicer. there are no bands and it doesnt look like there are clouds because i dont see any on all black shots. the HD picture quality is amazing, standard def is okay, kind of grainy, but i really don't even watch that much SD television anymore. so far i am very pleased with it and will continue to evaluate it and post about it. i don't have a digital camera but i will try to take some pictures of my set with my sisters camera tomorrow.
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post #207 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 11:35 PM
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"With the 65f you get side mounted speakers with black matte finish."

nope, 65f's are glossy black like the rest of them.
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post #208 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 11:47 PM
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Damn, it looks like the glossy 65 model is my current top contender. I presume the
71 model is basically the same with 120Hz, or am I wrong? Also, any former Sharp
d92 owners out there that picked this up (or seen it)?? If so, how does it compare?

The more pics, the merrier! I'm interested in the 52 inch model. Still, I'm interested
in that 71... but damn, why the long wait for just 120Hz?

???
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post #209 of 4566 Old 03-22-2007, 11:48 PM
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i can also attest to the sound of the speakers on the 65f. sounds way better than the sharp 46" i returned to costco today. also, even though the sharp had a 4ms reponse time, the samsung handles motion way better. i am watching a panthers game that i have had on my dvr and it looks much better on the samsung.
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post #210 of 4566 Old 03-23-2007, 12:51 AM
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using a screentest photo displayed from my pc through the xbox360 for component, there is around what appears to be a 2% overscan. this is kind of a bummer but not that noticable. i did the graw1 border test and it definitely did not display the full hud lines. just scan can not be enabled for component either.
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