Official Westinghouse TX Series ( TX-42F430S, TX-47F430S ) Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I took some more pictures last night. For TV viewing, I am completely relying on the built-in tuner, not just for digital QAM but yes, even analog!! There are a few channels that I will be watching in plain old analog 480i and I must say I am very surprised - the quality is not bad at all! Far better than my parent's Samsung LNT4092. This of course could be due to the signal that the local cable co is sending but all I can say is I am very satisfied. I am watching CNN Headline News right now and from my viewing distance I can honestly say that I do not see a single flaw!

I have attached a couple of pcitures - I thought the second one might get a laugh
LL
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post #32 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night I hooked up my Playstation 3 and picked up a copy of Ridge Racer 7 which is a 1080p game. I can honestly say that I have never seen a better image on a display in my life. It was absolutely mind-blowing! I couldn't even play the game because I was too engrossed in the images.

I am attaching a couple of shots - trust me, they don't do it justice!
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post #33 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:48 AM
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Were there any HDCP handshaking issues with the PS3 and this model?
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post #34 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huggybear View Post

Ok, last night a rerun of CSI was on... I know for a fact that CSI is delivered with 5.1 DD over QAM in my area.

I have an optical cable going from the SPDIF out on the TX-47 feeding a Logitech audio receiver... the logitech displays the technical details of the signal it is receiving....

Once again, the SPDIF passthrough is only sending 2 channels.

There are absolutely no audio settings in the menu that can address this.

I was under the impression that the TX would simply pass through the raw audio bitstream (leaving the decoding to your audio receiver).

It appears that it downsamples it to 2 channel stereo and then passes that through.

Someone else with QAM or OTA please test this and either confirm (or hopefully discredit) my findings.

If this is the case, it is a real bummer. But is this something that can be changed with a firmware update??

I also could not get anything but 2 channel audio from QAM. I guess I wasn't as concerned about it because I'll be using a TWC HD DVR, but I agree, it should work with the QAM and OTA signal.
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post #35 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huggybear View Post

Ok, I took some more pictures last night. For TV viewing, I am completely relying on the built-in tuner, not just for digital QAM but yes, even analog!! There are a few channels that I will be watching in plain old analog 480i and I must say I am very surprised - the quality is not bad at all! Far better than my parent's Samsung LNT4092. This of course could be due to the signal that the local cable co is sending but all I can say is I am very satisfied. I am watching CNN Headline News right now and from my viewing distance I can honestly say that I do not see a single flaw!

I have attached a couple of pcitures - I thought the second one might get a laugh

Your analog cable signal sure looks better than mine at my house, and I even use a bidirectional amplifier. That looks like my 480i digital signal.
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post #36 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 06:55 AM
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Huggybear, thank you for all of your updates. I am also interested in ps3 compatibility. I'm in the process of having my LVM-42w2 replaced through the BB extended warrantee. I have an older LVM purchased 06/2006, firmware 1.16. I was getting sparkle on DVI2 and HDMI with the ps3 in 1080p. Last night I updated the ps3 to firmware 1.80 and tested DVI2. It sparkled for a second every time the set switched to1080p but then the sparkle seemed to go away. Still major handshaking issues though. I have to switch inputs away from and back to the ps3 almost every time it changes screen resolutions.

Have you experienced any sparkle or handshaking issues with your ps3 over hdmi? I'm really hoping this is the set to replace my faulty LVM-42w2. Thank you for all the updates. Hopefully I can assist with the testing discussion soon
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post #37 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nibbs159 View Post

Huggybear, thank you for all of your updates. I am also interested in ps3 compatibility. I'm in the process of having my LVM-42w2 replaced through the BB extended warrantee. I have an older LVM purchased 06/2006, firmware 1.16. I was getting sparkle on DVI2 and HDMI with the ps3 in 1080p. Last night I updated the ps3 to firmware 1.80 and tested DVI2. It sparkled for a second every time the set switched to1080p but then the sparkle seemed to go away. Still major handshaking issues though. I have to switch inputs away from and back to the ps3 almost every time it changes screen resolutions.

Have you experienced any sparkle or handshaking issues with your ps3 over hdmi? I'm really hoping this is the set to replace my faulty LVM-42w2. Thank you for all the updates. Hopefully I can assist with the testing discussion soon

Nibbs, have you had a good experience with the BB warranty on your TV so far? I purchased the 4 year with mine too.
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post #38 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nibbs159 View Post

Huggybear, thank you for all of your updates. I am also interested in ps3 compatibility. I'm in the process of having my LVM-42w2 replaced through the BB extended warrantee. I have an older LVM purchased 06/2006, firmware 1.16. I was getting sparkle on DVI2 and HDMI with the ps3 in 1080p. Last night I updated the ps3 to firmware 1.80 and tested DVI2. It sparkled for a second every time the set switched to1080p but then the sparkle seemed to go away. Still major handshaking issues though. I have to switch inputs away from and back to the ps3 almost every time it changes screen resolutions.

Have you experienced any sparkle or handshaking issues with your ps3 over hdmi? I'm really hoping this is the set to replace my faulty LVM-42w2. Thank you for all the updates. Hopefully I can assist with the testing discussion soon

Sorry - I forgot to mention - absolutely ZERO problems with HDMI and PS3. Worked flawlessly - no handshaking issues, no sparkles, just a perfect image (and sound!).

I plugged the hdmi cable into a brand new PS3 which was never booted before. The TX was powered on and sitting and HDMI 1. I turned on the PS3 and the image appeared instantly (in 480i). The PS3 asked me if I would like to optimize the resolution. Bang - image fills the screen and the TX reports a 1080p signal.
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post #39 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:01 AM
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i'm within the 30 day return period for my LVM-47W1.

do you think it's worth exchanging it for the TX or am i asking for trouble going from a known to an unknown?
this set seems to meet my needs more as far as inputs go. my cable box is already hooked up via HDMI, i plan on getting a 360 Elite and an HDMI upconvert DVD player and running my PC through it DVI to HDMI if i don't use the VGA.
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post #40 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

Nibbs, have you had a good experience with the BB warranty on your TV so far? I purchased the 4 year with mine too.

jbradg, it hasn't been too bad. I've had to make a few phone calls and wait a few days for things but that's to be expected I suppose.

I originally called BB service regarding the sparkle and lockup issues I was having a week and a half ago. They said they would send a technician out to the house to look at it. A couple days later they called and said there were no technicians in my area so they would just replace the set. Last I heard they were forwarding my info to the store so the store would allow me to come in and exchange my set. The only problem I'm running into now is the store in my area told me they're just giving me my money back towards a new set. So it's going to cost a bit to go from the 42" to the new 47" but thats not exactly a comprable replacement so I don't mind much. I just hope the 47" remains in stock for next couple days. Looks like around 8 business days from first service call to being able to bring the set back to a store for a replacement. Though I don't have approval yet so it might be another day or two.
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post #41 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perplext View Post

i'm within the 30 day return period for my LVM-47W1.

do you think it's worth exchanging it for the TX or am i asking for trouble going from a known to an unknown?
this set seems to meet my needs more as far as inputs go. my cable box is already hooked up via HDMI, i plan on getting a 360 Elite and an HDMI upconvert DVD player and running my PC through it DVI to HDMI if i don't use the VGA.

perplext, if you can do the exchange for free, I would go for it. Otherwise I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble. The TX is retailing for a few hundred more than the LVM was a few days ago. You might want to wait and see if the TX goes on sale if you still have a few weeks. I'm planning on going from a LVM-42w2 to the TX-47F430S but this was brought on my ps3 issues on the LVM-42w2. From what i've read, the LVM-47w1 does not have the same issues the early LVM-42w2 has. It's a tough decision, are you happy with the LVM? Any terrible banding or dead pixels? If not, I think I would just stick with the LVM...
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post #42 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:28 AM
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Benzonate, let us know if you end up getting the DVI to HDMI PC input to work. I was hoping to connect a computer digitally to this TV in the future.
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post #43 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nibbs159 View Post

perplext, if you can do the exchange for free, I would go for it. Otherwise I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble. The TX is retailing for a few hundred more than the LVM was a few days ago. You might want to wait and see if the TX goes on sale if you still have a few weeks. I'm planning on going from a LVM-42w2 to the TX-47F430S but this was brought on my ps3 issues on the LVM-42w2. From what i've read, the LVM-47w1 does not have the same issues the early LVM-42w2 has. It's a tough decision, are you happy with the LVM? Any terrible banding or dead pixels? If not, I think I would just stick with the LVM...

If you do choose to pay to go to the TX model, when you purchase the new TV with the money from the bad TV, try to use this coupon, if you do it today or this weekend...

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US...ay_coupons.pdf
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post #44 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:45 AM
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Am I missing something, or is this TX-47F430S not yet up on BestBuy.com?
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post #45 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik View Post

Am I missing something, or is this TX-47F430S not yet up on BestBuy.com?

I haven't seen it, either by name or by item number, 8346685.
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post #46 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:50 AM
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Benzonate, I want to thank you for putting in all this effort. This is the first good look and seeing it side by side with the 47w1 is a great opportunity. I'd like to answer a couple of things you've brought up:

The text blur you see is indeed a result of the VGA. At that resolution it can be any number of issues from the cable to the clock source, but it's very common for VGA to fall down at this resolution. A DVI -> HDMI adapter cable is something to test out here on the TX, but it brings up the issue of colorspace conversion at the same time. The hazy clouding you see in the upper right is indeed a mura defect. It's the most common kind and this results in too much pressure being applied when the panel is sealed and it's color filter and polarizer is applied. Some of the cells in the corners get crushed and it allows more light leakage as a result. I would expect to see this on many of these including my own when it's here and I cannot stress enough that this afflicts the MAJORITY of LCD panels and I hope people don't take to focusing on it here like they have in other threads. It's something we have to deal with when buying this particular technology.

You also exhibit some mura along the bottom of the panel and this is more traditionally inline with what the Sony XBR buyers call "clouds" in that the spin coating or photo lithograhy process wasn't completely uniform resulting in the slightly hazy look you see there. We'll have to wait and see how much this shows up. The overall black floor does appear lower. It's my hope that this is the updated A-MVA panel type. When you step off at extreme viewing angles does the color of red wash out the most noticeably like it does on the 47w1? I also can't help but notice that after Westinghouse painfully stating there is no PIP it seems from your screenshots that it does indeed support the feature, just not dual-tuner PIP.

You'll want to set your Power Mode from normal to E. Saver/Economy right away. What this does is cut the unit's standby power consumption from 45 watts down to under a 1 watt in exchange for the display taking a little bit longer to light when you first turn it on each time. I'm also curious if the Normal color temp has been calibrated to 6500K or if you need to select Warm to get close to an accurate white like with most models.

Some comparisons between having dynamic contrast on and off while viewing normal tv or dvd sources would also be a good thing to check out. I want to know if Westinghouse can build a better crappy feature.
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post #47 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

Benzonate, let us know if you end up getting the DVI to HDMI PC input to work. I was hoping to connect a computer digitally to this TV in the future.

jbradg,
I hooked up my Mac G4 powerbook (DVI out) to the TX-47 (HDMI in) using a HDMI cable with DVI adapter. Besides some over saturation (which is adjustable) the image trully mirrored the powerbook LCD display. Enjoy
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post #48 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techleaper View Post

jbradg,
I hooked up my Mac G4 powerbook (DVI out) to the TX-47 (HDMI in) using a HDMI cable with DVI adapter. Besides some over saturation (which is adjustable) the image trully mirrored the powerbook LCD display. Enjoy

Is it switching from sRGB colorspace to PC RGB correctly or has Westy overlooked this? I suspect unless there is a menu option to explicitly switch it this is going to be an issue. You'll be able to tell if the blacks and whites are crushed.
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post #49 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techleaper View Post

jbradg,
I hooked up my Mac G4 powerbook (DVI out) to the TX-47 (HDMI in) using a HDMI cable with DVI adapter. Besides some over saturation (which is adjustable) the image trully mirrored the powerbook LCD display. Enjoy

Great, thanks!
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post #50 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 08:58 AM
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Hey all,

So I got around to testing some more things on the TV.

DVI-HDMI 20 foot Cable Input:
Works great. Better then VGA. 1080P Looks amazing. Tested 1 to 1 mapping @1080P using patterns from tft.vanity.dk and looked perfect.

Output of 720P from computer is scaled up. Options in prefs to turn Overscan off displays it in the middle of the monitor at what looks like 1 to 1. I didn't look at a pattern tho.

VGA Cable input:
For whatever reason, the Belkin cable I used reported the wrong timing info to the MacBook. The Cheap Dell VGA Cable that came with my 2005fpw worked better in this regard. I was able to get it to work, but the video was shifted to the left and I couldn't adjust it correctly. However the ghosting issues and jitters were vastly improved.

VGA input using official xbox 360 cable:
I think it looked better then component. The xbox dashboard looks better/crisp. I didn't notice any blur or ghosting in 4 hours of crackdown.

Wii with component @480P:
Paper Mario was the only game I tested. Looked good. Everything looked a tad fuzzy from being enlarged. Couldn't get it to not enlarge...

Dynamic Contrast:
I looked at a black to white gradient and noticed more levels of gray with it turned on. It did make everything look a tad darker when on. Pure black looked no different too me.

I did however notice a small band of grays that looked bluish and yellow. I'll post the picture in a bit. I think I'm still restricted from posting urls and images until I hit 5 posts.

I don't have anything with HDMI to test 5.1 audio pass through. And my amp is on the other side of the room. My plan is to wall mount it above the amp so I'm living with the internal speakers.

There is an option to choose your speaker set up. It's Internal / external / Both. Both is the default. Maybe this will help?


Overall I have nothing to complain about.

EDIT: Banding picture:

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post #51 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 09:03 AM
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can those decals on the front of the bezel be removed?

can the blue power light be turned off in the menu? (it can on my lvm-32w6)
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post #52 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynStatic View Post

Hey all,

So I got around to testing some more things on the TV.

DVI-HDMI 20 foot Cable Input:
Works great. Better then VGA. 1080P Looks amazing. Tested 1 to 1 mapping @1080P using patterns from tft.vanity.dk and looked perfect.

Output of 720P from computer is scaled up. Options in prefs to turn Overscan off displays it in the middle of the monitor at what looks like 1 to 1. I didn't look at a pattern tho.

VGA Cable input:
For whatever reason, the Belkin cable I used reported the wrong timing info to the MacBook. The Cheap Dell VGA Cable that came with my 2005fpw worked better in this regard. I was able to get it to work, but the video was shifted to the left and I couldn't adjust it correctly. However the ghosting issues and jitters were vastly improved.

VGA input using official xbox 360 cable:
I think it looked better then component. The xbox dashboard looks better/crisp. I didn't notice any blur or ghosting in 4 hours of crackdown.

Wii with component @480P:
Paper Mario was the only game I tested. Looked good. Everything looked a tad fuzzy from being enlarged. Couldn't get it to not enlarge...

Dynamic Contrast:
I looked at a black to white gradient and noticed more levels of gray with it turned on. It did make everything look a tad darker when on. Pure black looked no different too me.

I did however notice a small band of grays that looked bluish and yellow. I'll post the picture in a bit. I think I'm still restricted from posting urls and images until I hit 5 posts.

I don't have anything with HDMI to test 5.1 audio pass through. And my amp is on the other side of the room. My plan is to wall mount it above the amp so I'm living with the internal speakers.

There is an option to choose your speaker set up. It's Internal / external / Both. Both is the default. Maybe this will help?


Overall I have nothing to complain about.

I got the 5.1 audio to pass through the HDMI when I changed my DVD player from PCM to Bitstream. However, it seemed to be an issue between my new DVD player and my receiver because the same thing happens when I connect the DVD player directly to the receiver via optical.
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post #53 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 09:26 AM
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Xcalibur_255, are you saying that if a PC/Mac is hooked up to the TX via HDMI, the colors will look different because of the colorspace that it expects from a normal HDMI source (ie video stuff)?

If Westinghouse did not compensate for this, is there anything that the user can do about it?

I plan on getting the 42" TX to use with a HTPC to play games on and watch my good ole downloaded tv shows on.

All TX owners, if you have both a VGA and DVI-HDMI cable, can you compare the overall colors and blacks by hooking it up to a PC or Mac and looking at some color charts online or something?
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post #54 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 10:04 AM
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Just a follow up to my sour grapes comment about having to cancel my order at
Amazon a few days ago. Well, kept reading this forum, an holy cow, Best Buy
had them with a 12% discount available right now! I had to call around to
many Best Buy locations, only a few actually had one or two in stock.

Report: Damn, I am glad I did not buy mail order. It seems the these big flat
panels are somewhat fragile although boxed/packed well. I recommend a
store pick up. Anyway first impressions after setting it up in the kitchen table with
a cheap UHF/VHF antenna and a computer:

1. The HDTV tuner seem very good, picked up and held all the local stations,
even with a crappy antenna just thrown near a window.
2. No bad pixels that I can see, excellent images with full 1080i resolution.
3. My computer had trouble playing a 1080p movie (HDDVD) that I had on
the hard drive. Sound was ok, but frames were being dropped. I think
my Nvida 7300gt is the problem. This brand new pci express card is too
slow! I may try overclocking it. Regular 1080i .ts files play just fine.
4. The 1080p movie plays fine if I lower the screen resolution to 720p.
5. I have no complaints about the tv so far.
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post #55 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 10:12 AM
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Thanks for the impressions guys. Any PC gamers out there that can provide screenshots ingame? I wonder how F.E.A.R. would look on this set.
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post #56 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joony View Post

Xcalibur_255, are you saying that if a PC/Mac is hooked up to the TX via HDMI, the colors will look different because of the colorspace that it expects from a normal HDMI source (ie video stuff)?

If Westinghouse did not compensate for this, is there anything that the user can do about it?

I plan on getting the 42" TX to use with a HTPC to play games on and watch my good ole downloaded tv shows on.

All TX owners, if you have both a VGA and DVI-HDMI cable, can you compare the overall colors and blacks by hooking it up to a PC or Mac and looking at some color charts online or something?

Mac's us a different color space then PC's. It's really only a problem for Mac users which is easy to overcome. It's easy to get a ball park color calibration using the Display Calibration assistant. Or you can find the correct sRGB Profile doing some google searches. Macs use a default gamma of 1.8 while PC's use 2.2. Also I believe that the target white point you choose can also play a part.

I can try and do a comparison but wont be home until Monday to do any testing.
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post #57 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joony View Post

Xcalibur_255, are you saying that if a PC/Mac is hooked up to the TX via HDMI, the colors will look different because of the colorspace that it expects from a normal HDMI source (ie video stuff)?

If Westinghouse did not compensate for this, is there anything that the user can do about it?

I plan on getting the 42" TX to use with a HTPC to play games on and watch my good ole downloaded tv shows on.

All TX owners, if you have both a VGA and DVI-HDMI cable, can you compare the overall colors and blacks by hooking it up to a PC or Mac and looking at some color charts online or something?

Actually the differences in Gamma between Mac and PC is yet another issue I didn't touch on. PCs map the greyscale to a 0-255 scale..... 0 being black and 255 being white. The studio RGB colorspace used everywhere else except the PC world uses the same 0-255 scale but it maps video black to 16 and video white to 235. The area below and above DO contain video information most of the time though, especially in the chroma channel. This is where the terms "blacker than black" and "whiter than white" come from. Improper conversion between the two colorspaces either blows out or clips the video information at each end resulting in crushed greyscale rendering and loss of luma and chroma detail in near dark or near white image data.
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post #58 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by alucard_x View Post

can those decals on the front of the bezel be removed?

can the blue power light be turned off in the menu? (it can on my lvm-32w6)

Yes the decals can be removed, but I'm not sure about the light. I'll check tonight when I get home.
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post #59 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by darkninja67 View Post

Thanks for the impressions guys. Any PC gamers out there that can provide screenshots ingame? I wonder how F.E.A.R. would look on this set.

I was playing C&C Tiberium Wars last night and its looked AMAZING @ full res/detail.
I will try and get some shots this weekend inc fear etc.
I did notice that the image reprodction was VERY good (i am a designer/photographer so notice these things). Cant wait to fully callibrate this TV
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post #60 of 6165 Old 05-25-2007, 11:41 AM
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Yes the decals can be removed, but I'm not sure about the light. I'll check tonight when I get home.

You can turn the light off - its in the menu.
I tested it and it works.
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