Official Westinghouse TX Series ( TX-42F430S, TX-47F430S ) Owner's Thread - Page 208 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6211 of 6250 Old 01-21-2015, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orgwood View Post
Could you use the firmware dumped from a working set onto a flash drive? Maybe someone here knows how to do that for you? Dave
That's really half the answer to what i'm looking to do, if someone knows how to dump the firmware without removing the Firmware chip from the board i'm sure he knows how to upload the firmware back without using the USB.

my last resort is removing the chip and program it then solder it back , the only thing making me wait for another solution is that i need a TSOP56 adapter for my chip Programmer to be able to program the s29GL128 flash ,and to build the adapter its really a time consuming thing.

Hopefully someone will step in with a solution .

by the way the symptoms of the corrupted firmware is that the TV will turn on then show the Big W Logo and then turns back off with an orange Light , it will never turn to Blue light i'm sure many of the posters to this thread have this problem on there TX-47 or TX-42 and they end up throwing the board away.
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post #6212 of 6250 Old 01-28-2015, 03:54 PM
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Hi! I'm EXTREMELY new to this. After a power outage, my TX-47 won't turn on and only shows the amber light. I wanted to replace the bad cap, but I CAN'T figure out how to access it. I unscrewed all the screws that I could find but I still can't get how to open this enclosure to get to the board.

Can anyone help? Thanks!
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post #6213 of 6250 Old 01-28-2015, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vash91892 View Post
Hi! I'm EXTREMELY new to this. After a power outage, my TX-47 won't turn on and only shows the amber light. I wanted to replace the bad cap, but I CAN'T figure out how to access it. I unscrewed all the screws that I could find but I still can't get how to open this enclosure to get to the board.

Can anyone help? Thanks!
If yours is the same design as mine then its simply a matter of disconnecting the cables that attach to the main board and sliding the board out.

Viewing the rear of the tv the HDMI ports should be on your left and the component connections should be on your right . Remove all the screws from the side with component connections and remove the flat headed flush screws from the HDMI side. You should be able to then pull the board out from the left side (HDMI side). When you go to install the board be careful, the board is supposed to be inserted between these metal slides.

If you cant figure it out I can get some pictures.

ZZ
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post #6214 of 6250 Old 01-28-2015, 05:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply!

I disconnected all the cables and took out all the screws but I still can't seem to slide the board out. Did you have screws inside that (I think) held your board in place like in my picture?

My pictures show the bottom view and the top view. They're the screws in the corner that my screwdriver can't get to
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post #6215 of 6250 Old 01-28-2015, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vash91892 View Post
Thanks for the reply!

I disconnected all the cables and took out all the screws but I still can't seem to slide the board out. Did you have screws inside that (I think) held your board in place like in my picture?

My pictures show the bottom view and the top view. They're the screws in the corner that my screwdriver can't get to

No I didnt have to remove any screws from the top of the board. Those screws help hold the metal plate that go around the component connections. See http://imgur.com/a/rNfSQ#0 and you can see how the board is supposed to slide out via the HDMI side.

ZZ
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post #6216 of 6250 Old 01-28-2015, 08:53 PM
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I see what you mean. I'm sure I got all the screws I need to, and I'm pulling on the metal plate quite hard to the point of bending it, but it's not budging.

I think the metal slides are holding my board in place really well. I'll just keep trying though.

Thanks for the help
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post #6217 of 6250 Old 02-13-2015, 08:48 AM
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and tried searching for a previous post about my problem, but didn't find anything. I have a TX-47F430S that I bought in 2008. It lives in the basement, and as a result, has not been used much at all.

Over the last few weeks, it has started losing the video drive signal (as near as I can guess). I primarily watch my Dish Network TV box through the HDMI port. It will work fine for a few hours, then the picture will suddenly disappear, but the audio continues to work and the LED stays blue. There is no "No signal found" message, and I can't get menus or anything, even internally generated, to display on the screen. Likewise, switching to the TV antenna input also produces only audio with no video. I can see the back light lamps illuminating, so I don't think it's lamp/drive problem. It really seems to me like the video just somehow gets "disconnected". If I do a hard reboot (holding in power switch for 10 sec), it comes back and works fine for a while before the whole cycle repeats.

Anybody seen this before? I thought I'd try a firmware update, but it seems Westinghouse no longer makes it available on their website. Any working link would be appreciated.
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post #6218 of 6250 Old 02-13-2015, 10:17 PM
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I have not seen this effect before BUT I think I remember reading about T-con boards acting like this because they take the video bit scans and output them to the LCD...just guessing here but with enough input someone will be able to help you out...it sounds almost similar to when the screen freezes with a picture "stuck" there but if they turn off, I would suppose it would have the effect of no video but the back lighting would still be present.
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post #6219 of 6250 Old 02-14-2015, 11:15 AM
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My TV died again today (3rd time) so I happened to be back on the forum looking for answers...

This forum has been a great help so I would like to give back a little.

I have all of the firmware files archived, but my post count is too low to post a link...

Let me know if there is an shared area, and I will upload them.
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post #6220 of 6250 Old 02-16-2015, 06:15 AM
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Firmware files

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Originally Posted by seanpriddy View Post
My TV died again today (3rd time) so I happened to be back on the forum looking for answers...

This forum has been a great help so I would like to give back a little.

I have all of the firmware files archived, but my post count is too low to post a link...

Let me know if there is an shared area, and I will upload them.
Good idea! How large are they per file and how many? I could post them on my site if small enough. Dave
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post #6221 of 6250 Old 02-16-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by vash91892 View Post
I see what you mean. I'm sure I got all the screws I need to, and I'm pulling on the metal plate quite hard to the point of bending it, but it's not budging.

I think the metal slides are holding my board in place really well. I'll just keep trying though.

Thanks for the help
Were you able to get the board out? It's been awhile since I went into mine but I do kind of remember having to remove at least one screw using a small flat blade fitted inside to get it torqued loose...then hand removed. I also think I went down through those vent holes at an angle to get to more. Dave
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post #6222 of 6250 Old 02-19-2015, 12:25 PM
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HAHA! This is the first thread I posted in years ago, I had bought one of these things...lol

Good times
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post #6223 of 6250 Old 03-03-2015, 09:22 PM
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I got this LCD for free on CL. After doing the cap repair, it booted right up.

Problem: I'm getting slightly dark, fixed, horizintal lines that are spaced unevenly throughout the screen. It's more apparent on lighter backgrounds.

I've tried different inputs (vga, hdmi, hdmi2). All the same.

Could this be because of a poorly done cap repair? If not what could cause this?

Last edited by kenzo42; 03-03-2015 at 09:38 PM.
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post #6224 of 6250 Old 03-05-2015, 05:59 AM
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I believe that the cap replacement just fixes the power rail for booting using that microcontroller. The lines you're describing wouldn't be part of that IMO unless the power rail remains somewhat "dirty" causing glitches but I don't think that it would even work if that were the case. My guess is that there is another power rail problem in those scan boards - can't remember what they're called right now. Do the lines move around on the screen or remain in a fixed position?
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post #6225 of 6250 Old 03-05-2015, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orgwood View Post
I believe that the cap replacement just fixes the power rail for booting using that microcontroller. The lines you're describing wouldn't be part of that IMO unless the power rail remains somewhat "dirty" causing glitches but I don't think that it would even work if that were the case. My guess is that there is another power rail problem in those scan boards - can't remember what they're called right now. Do the lines move around on the screen or remain in a fixed position?
They do not move. They are fixed. The picture is perfect - not scrambled around the horizontal lines like I've seen in some LCD panel failures.

It's as though someone took a pencil and drew horizontal lines across the screen. They are not evenly distributed either, nor do they move. In my haste, I did not take a picture of the screen. doh!

I hope I didn't damage something when trying to do the cap mod!

Any ideas?

Thanks.

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post #6226 of 6250 Old 03-06-2015, 10:18 PM
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I wish I had an answer for you...maybe someone else will jump in here and comment. I will say that I repair laptops and their LCD screens sometimes have this same visual problem and I've always attributed it to the connections to the edge of the LCD panel. There are both vertical and horizontal connections I think so I'd look at the edge connectors coming into the side - both the cable and the solder connections to the panel if you can see them. I know there are warnings about how fragile that area is so I'd be really careful when digging around in there. I once took an LCD monitor apart for a gent who had an eye disease that was exaborated by the fluorescent back lighting and put an incandescent behind the screen for him and I found it really easy to tear those LCD connection tapes to the panel itself, not the ribbon cables to those plug in connectors though. Just be observant and careful. Maybe you'll find that just unplugging and replugging will make a difference and correct the problem.
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post #6227 of 6250 Old 03-07-2015, 06:40 PM
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I wish I had an answer for you...maybe someone else will jump in here and comment. I will say that I repair laptops and their LCD screens sometimes have this same visual problem and I've always attributed it to the connections to the edge of the LCD panel. There are both vertical and horizontal connections I think so I'd look at the edge connectors coming into the side - both the cable and the solder connections to the panel if you can see them. I know there are warnings about how fragile that area is so I'd be really careful when digging around in there. I once took an LCD monitor apart for a gent who had an eye disease that was exaborated by the fluorescent back lighting and put an incandescent behind the screen for him and I found it really easy to tear those LCD connection tapes to the panel itself, not the ribbon cables to those plug in connectors though. Just be observant and careful. Maybe you'll find that just unplugging and replugging will make a difference and correct the problem.
Thanks Orgwood! I'll try that.
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post #6228 of 6250 Old 03-08-2015, 10:14 AM
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"Problem: I'm getting slightly dark, fixed, horizintal lines that are spaced unevenly throughout the screen. It's more apparent on lighter backgrounds."

From your description, I would guess you have a problem with some of the ribbon cables that connect to the glass screen.
The screen is a matrix of transistors with both horizontal and vertical control lines. If one of those lines has been interrupted, you will get a sharply defined dark lines. A row or column of dark pixels.
The screen is a sheet of glass with an electronic circuit printed on it. One of the technological problems in building these devices, is how to connect a screen to the rest of the TV. The cheap way is the use electrically conductive adhesive or tape to connect ribbon cables to the glass. This stuff is called Anisotropic Conductive Paste (ACP), or Film (ACF). It has a tendency to dry out with age and lose connection. I have spent a considerable amount of time on this problem. I have not found anyway to fix this. The companies that make ACP and ACF do not make it available to the public.
This is the ultimate killer of LCD TVs and monitors.
Also, these ribbon cables are very easy to damage when you disturb them in any way. I hate to lift the glass out of the set for fear that I will damage some of the hundreds of control lines or their connection to the glass.
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post #6229 of 6250 Old 03-08-2015, 02:31 PM
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Cap replaced. TV picture perfect but now no sound

Did I forget to replace something? What cable is the sound?
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post #6230 of 6250 Old 03-08-2015, 11:41 PM
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Could pressing on the edge connector with a pencil eraser (while the tv is on) maybe make the lines go away? Or is this a hazard to my life bc of electricity?


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Originally Posted by CDGraves View Post
"Problem: I'm getting slightly dark, fixed, horizintal lines that are spaced unevenly throughout the screen. It's more apparent on lighter backgrounds."

From your description, I would guess you have a problem with some of the ribbon cables that connect to the glass screen.
The screen is a matrix of transistors with both horizontal and vertical control lines. If one of those lines has been interrupted, you will get a sharply defined dark lines. A row or column of dark pixels.
The screen is a sheet of glass with an electronic circuit printed on it. One of the technological problems in building these devices, is how to connect a screen to the rest of the TV. The cheap way is the use electrically conductive adhesive or tape to connect ribbon cables to the glass. This stuff is called Anisotropic Conductive Paste (ACP), or Film (ACF). It has a tendency to dry out with age and lose connection. I have spent a considerable amount of time on this problem. I have not found anyway to fix this. The companies that make ACP and ACF do not make it available to the public.
This is the ultimate killer of LCD TVs and monitors.
Also, these ribbon cables are very easy to damage when you disturb them in any way. I hate to lift the glass out of the set for fear that I will damage some of the hundreds of control lines or their connection to the glass.
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post #6231 of 6250 Old 03-08-2015, 11:53 PM
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Pressing on the attachment point of the ribbon cable is actually a good trouble shooting technique.
I have done that very thing to confirm that there is a bad cable attachment.
You should see the dark lines come and go as you press down and re-establish continuity.
Be careful not to introduce a cable problem. These cables can detach easily and there is no way to get them back on.
The voltages to the screen are very low, in the range of 5 volts, so you should not be in any danger.
Be sure to avoid touching the power supply board, there is 115 volt AC there.
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post #6232 of 6250 Old 03-09-2015, 03:49 AM
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Would it be possible to find the solvent for the paste or film and using a hypodermic needle, spot place a tiny amount at the site of non continuity to re-establish the electrical link? I'm somewhat familiar with the edge contacts you speak of and remember that they lay folded over that edge and it appears they have an adhesive bonded them to the glass surface much like the common Scotch tape. When the adhesive is rubber, the common solvent for removal is mineral spirits so maybe it would be useful for re-bonding.
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post #6233 of 6250 Old 03-09-2015, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
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Did I forget to replace something? What cable is the sound?
I remember having the same problem with my set and discovered there was another attachment point for the sound cable in that same vicinity if I remember correctly.
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post #6234 of 6250 Old 03-09-2015, 10:59 PM
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Use a solvent on the ribbon cable connection?! Please do not do that.

First, you must establish that the problem is caused by a bad cable attachment. Be careful not to introduce a new problem. If you break that connection, your TV is history.

As for Anisotropic Conductive Film. This is a very special material. As the term Anisotropic implies, it conducts electricity in one axis only. Z axis, and not X and Y. It does this with tiny metal particles mixed into the material. This creates a connection from cable to board without causing a short to the adjacent lines. You can Google it and see for yourself how it actually works.
If you dissolve any of this special adhesive, you will totally ruin your TV. You can not buy this ACF material. I have tried. Regular adhesives will not work.
Personally I do like this technology. It is a cheap way to solve the problem of connecting high density cables to flat surfaces. It is flimsy and prone to failure. Adhesives age and dry out. There is no way to fix it when it happens. This seems to be a more frequent problem in low quality TVs made in China.
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post #6235 of 6250 Old 03-10-2015, 01:09 AM
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post #6236 of 6250 Old 03-10-2015, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDGraves View Post
Pressing on the attachment point of the ribbon cable is actually a good trouble shooting technique.
I have done that very thing to confirm that there is a bad cable attachment.
You should see the dark lines come and go as you press down and re-establish continuity.
Be careful not to introduce a cable problem. These cables can detach easily and there is no way to get them back on.
The voltages to the screen are very low, in the range of 5 volts, so you should not be in any danger.
Be sure to avoid touching the power supply board, there is 115 volt AC there.
Can one somehow just clamp the attachment point (instead of replacing the ACF) as a permanent band aid?
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post #6237 of 6250 Old 03-10-2015, 11:12 PM
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"Can one somehow just clamp the attachment point (instead of replacing the ACF) as a permanent band aid?"

I suppose anything is possible. I had Sanyo 42 inch TV in which a ribbon cable become partially disconnected. I experimented with lots of things to get it back on. I thought about using some type of clamp, but mechanically there was no way to fit any type of clamp in the small amount of space available. On my last attempt, I accidentally cracked the screen and that was the end of it. I ended up parting the TV and selling the boards on Ebay.
If you can figure out a fix, please share it will us. I might even nominate you for a Nobel Prize.

As for ACF. 3M and several other companies make it. But they only sell it in industrial quantities to electronics companies. It is expensive and requires special shipping and cold storage. It is applied with heat and pressure using special machines. Even if you could convince them to sell you a roll of that stuff, it would cost more than the TV is worth.
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post #6238 of 6250 Old 03-10-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDGraves View Post
Use a solvent on the ribbon cable connection?! Please do not do that.

First, you must establish that the problem is caused by a bad cable attachment. Be careful not to introduce a new problem. If you break that connection, your TV is history.

As for Anisotropic Conductive Film. This is a very special material. As the term Anisotropic implies, it conducts electricity in one axis only. Z axis, and not X and Y. It does this with tiny metal particles mixed into the material. This creates a connection from cable to board without causing a short to the adjacent lines. You can Google it and see for yourself how it actually works.
If you dissolve any of this special adhesive, you will totally ruin your TV. You can not buy this ACF material. I have tried. Regular adhesives will not work.
Personally I do like this technology. It is a cheap way to solve the problem of connecting high density cables to flat surfaces. It is flimsy and prone to failure. Adhesives age and dry out. There is no way to fix it when it happens. This seems to be a more frequent problem in low quality TVs made in China.
3M is in my backyard, at least their corporate offices and some manufacturing. I have friends there who might have access to this material.

Also, I understand the importance of not dissolving the film...my comment was intended to get some opinions and I'm glad you did and that you have some experience with this material and the problem...I do not have any of either. Now that you've added your knowledge and opinion, I looked at 3M data sheets and see that there are 2 types - thermo-set and thermoplastic. If it's thermoset then adding heat will probably not reactivate the material bond...this might never be repairable without removal and replacement with the same or different type of film. If it's thermoplastic, then re-work might involve heat. If it's adhesive attachment only, then applying a very small amount of solvent to the adhesive non-bonded area "might" cause just enough re-activation to allow contact to be made again. I wasn't suggesting to "flood" the adhesive with solvent but I'm certainly glad you pointed us to the material as did the next poster kenzo42 .

Last edited by orgwood; 03-10-2015 at 11:41 PM. Reason: credit to poster
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post #6239 of 6250 Old 03-11-2015, 12:15 AM
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I have read some posts where people have tried to apply heat from a soldering iron to get the plastic to soften and re-stick. The flat cables are usually Polyimide. They are typically trasparent orange or dark yellow. Polyimide has a high heat tolerance. There is a temperature window where you can remelt the adhesive without destroying the cable. I experimented with my soldering iron with some success. I used a broad tip and moderate heat. I got the cable to partially re-stick, but I could not get all the lines to work. I did not have good control of temperature and pressure. As I kept playing with it, I ended up damaging the cable.
The cables are put on with purpose build heated high pressure clamps that apply uniform heat and pressure.
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post #6240 of 6250 Old 03-17-2015, 01:13 PM
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Are there any reliable IN CIRCUIT esr testers? Or do all ESR testers have this capability?
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