Official Westinghouse TX Series ( TX-42F430S, TX-47F430S ) Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 6184 Old 05-28-2007, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Sevens View Post

@cosmogeek: component doesn't have offline signaling to say what teh aspect ration is. You'd have to manually change it no matter what TV you have unless you have a player that's doing the changes itself.

No luck on the QAM. I just scanned a third time, and as before there are no QAM channels coming up.

Have you actually tried it on this set? I think it is broken. It is adding the bars to the sides of my picture when it shouldn't be.

It is most certainly NOT functioning the way I expect and have experienced with the other 3 16:9 tvs I've owned nor the many others I've helped other people setup.

The only way I could get it to get it to fill the screen (not have the bars on the sides) is to use the fill mode, which is not correct since it chops off a huge portion of the top and bottom of the picture.

It looks like the aspect ratio is correct for about a half a second then the screen switches and the bars get added to the sides.

Ok I just tried it and as soon as I switch my xbox360 to 480p it adds the side bars when set to "Normal". I thought maybe it was my old dvd player so I tried the xbox just to make sure. The Fill mode chops off a non-trivial amount of the top and bottom of the screen. If this was working correctly it wouldn't have to since the image is the perfect shape to fit the screen in the first place.

EDIT:
I just submitted an online help thing to westinghouse describing this problem. I'll report back what I hear from them.
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post #182 of 6184 Old 05-28-2007, 11:41 PM
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Normal always adds bars to the sides. Different sets call the modes different things, but these are teh same modes I've seen on every widescreen TV. Normal is for 4:3 material. Fill is for 16:9 material, but it seems to lose about 5% each on the top and bottom. I think the problem isn't that there's supposed to be another mode that doesn't do this, but that this isn't supposed to do that.
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post #183 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

My experience with DD5.1 has not been good. First, it appears the Time Warner 8300HD DVR won't pass DD5.1 out the HDMI port to the TX 47 then onto my receiver, even with the TV set at External for the audio. My new upconvert DVD connected via HDMI behaves the same way... no DD5.1 passthrough to my receiver. I did have a Samsung that was giving me other grief that would pass it through if I selected the bitstream mode instead of PCM, but the TV wouldn't play the audio (didn't care though) and I did get a message breifly that said HDMI audio not supported. But, I had other locking up issues with that DVD player.

So, my experience with HDMI hasn't been a good one when it comes to audio. I could go with an HDMI "aware" receiver, but I think I will just switch the video with the TV and run all the audio optically directly to my receiver.

Does anyone know if the HDMI handshake negociates different audio formats? If this is the case, I believe the TV is negociating stereo pcm with devices over HDMI. I did some testing with my cable box and dvd player yesterday and they would only send stereo audio over HDMI to the TV which then passed it to my receiver. Perhaps a firmware update could allow us to set which sort of audio is negociated over HDMI. On the other hand, the TV might need a dolby digital decoder otherwise they could end up with a lot of customer confusion as to why they don't get dolby digital audio from their TV speakers...
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post #184 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2panther View Post

I walked in to Best Buy with my 42" LVM monitor and walked out with the TX-47F430S today on an even exchange by utilizing my PSP from them that I got when purchased the set.

What's a 'PSP'?
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post #185 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard_x View Post

What's a 'PSP'?

I believe he is referring to the Play Station Portable.
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post #186 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nibbs159 View Post

Does anyone know if the HDMI handshake negociates different audio formats? If this is the case, I believe the TV is negociating stereo pcm with devices over HDMI. I did some testing with my cable box and dvd player yesterday and they would only send stereo audio over HDMI to the TV which then passed it to my receiver. Perhaps a firmware update could allow us to set which sort of audio is negociated over HDMI. On the other hand, the TV might need a dolby digital decoder otherwise they could end up with a lot of customer confusion as to why they don't get dolby digital audio from their TV speakers...

From my understanding HDMI does negotiate different audio modes. However, I believe the problem is deeper than HDMI since the QAM tuner also outputs 2 channels instead of 5.1. I believe it to be something wrong with whatever is driving the optical output of the TV. I don't see any reason why this would not be fixable through a firmware update. Hopefully HuggyBear gets somewhere with Westinghouse Support.
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post #187 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 09:45 AM
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Hey everyone, I just purchased the TX47 over the weekend, and am really enjoying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

I believe he is referring to the Play Station Portable.

or perhaps a typo and he meant PRP (Product Replacement Plan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmogeek View Post

I calibrated mine last night with digital video essentials.. the color was WAY off out of the box.

If you get a chance, could you post the numbers your DVE disc came up with? Right now I'm just using the "Enhanced" setting mode, and I'd like to see if I could get a better picture by going off your numbers.
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post #188 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFMooglestar View Post


or perhaps a typo and he meant PRP (Product Replacement Plan).

That makes WAY more sense.

Glad you are enjoying the TV. I would appreciate the calibration settings as well.
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post #189 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard_x View Post

What's a 'PSP'?

BB has 2 types of service plans, depending on the product. PRP is a Product Replacement Plan... usually small, inexpensive items, or a PSP which is a Product Service Plan, meaning they will fix or only replace if they cannot fix or not in their best interest to fix. I believe items that fall under a PRP only get replaced one time during the warranty period. Also, proceed with caution when a BB employee tells you about items or services covered in a service plan. Make sure you read it in the documentation or call the warranty company to check any particular coverage if you have concerns before purchasing the warranty. I believe you can also return the warranty within 30 days.
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post #190 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

From my understanding HDMI does negotiate different audio modes. However, I believe the problem is deeper than HDMI since the QAM tuner also outputs 2 channels instead of 5.1. I believe it to be something wrong with whatever is driving the optical output of the TV. I don't see any reason why this would not be fixable through a firmware update. Hopefully HuggyBear gets somewhere with Westinghouse Support.

My cable box manual states (not to be taken as fact because Time Warner may have modified some of its capabilities) that if I put the HD DVR in DD mode, it will send DD out all the ports, including the HDMI port. A friend of mine also stated that his understanding is that HDMI does negotiate the audio capabilites of the first device it is connected to. I am hoping Westinghouse does make a fix so that maybe if you select External for the audio, it just passes the audio (DD5.1) directly to the device attached to the digital out connection without interfering with it.
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post #191 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

My cable box manual states (not to be taken as fact because Time Warner may have modified some of its capabilities) that if I put the HD DVR in DD mode, it will send DD out all the ports, including the HDMI port. A friend of mine also stated that his understanding is that HDMI does negotiate the audio capabilites of the first device it is connected to. I am hoping Westinghouse does make a fix so that maybe if you select External for the audio, it just passes the audio (DD5.1) directly to the device attached to the digital out connection without interfering with it.

The only potential problem I could see with that is that there are two audio outputs on the TX: Digital and Analog. The Analog is obviously 2-channel through RCA so if you tried to pass the DD5.1 out of the analog outputs it definitely wouldn't work. Has anyone tested the analog out to see if it works at all. Maybe ProLogicII audio would suffice until this get resolved. Maybe they screwed something up between the two audio outputs?
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post #192 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

The only potential problem I could see with that is that there are two audio outputs on the TX: Digital and Analog. The Analog is obviously 2-channel through RCA so if you tried to pass the DD5.1 out of the analog outputs it definitely wouldn't work. Has anyone tested the analog out to see if it works at all. Maybe ProLogicII audio would suffice until this get resolved. Maybe they screwed something up between the two audio outputs?

Good point. I'll try the 2-channel RCA connection to my receiver tonight.
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post #193 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 11:19 AM
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I think I found another firmware problem this morning.

When my wife tried to turn the tv on it wouldn't recognize anything plugged into the HDMI ports. My dvd player and cable box wouldn't work. The TV acted like there was no signal. My component in was still working, but the HDMI wouldn't work until I pulled the power plug on the tv to reset it.

I'm not sure what actions I may have taken which led to this (I was messing with the 480p stretch problem with my xbox last night before I turned it off). The TV doesn't really turn off, it just goes into standby. If this continues to be a problem I think there's a menu option to make it actually turn off instead of go to standby.
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post #194 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmogeek View Post

I think I found another firmware problem this morning.

When my wife tried to turn the tv on it wouldn't recognize anything plugged into the HDMI ports. My dvd player and cable box wouldn't work. The TV acted like there was no signal. My component in was still working, but the HDMI wouldn't work until I pulled the power plug on the tv to reset it.

I'm not sure what actions I may have taken which led to this (I was messing with the 480p stretch problem with my xbox last night before I turned it off). The TV doesn't really turn off, it just goes into standby. If this continues to be a problem I think there's a menu option to make it actually turn off instead of go to standby.

You know, I've had that HDMI source issue at least twice. It wouldn't lock onto the HDMI source when I was switching back and forth between devices. As for the power off, you can change it to Energy Save mode (or something like that) in the power menu. However, it sure takes a long time for the TV to come on when in that setting, but I've left it in energy save mode.
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post #195 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

You know, I've had that HDMI source issue at least twice. It wouldn't lock onto the HDMI source when I was switching back and forth between devices. As for the power off, you can change it to Energy Save mode (or something like that) in the power menu. However, it sure takes a long time for the TV to come on when in that setting, but I've left it in energy save mode.

Well we're used to my projector so the tv turning on the "slow" way is still way faster than my pj lamp warming up.
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post #196 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

From my understanding HDMI does negotiate different audio modes. However, I believe the problem is deeper than HDMI since the QAM tuner also outputs 2 channels instead of 5.1. I believe it to be something wrong with whatever is driving the optical output of the TV. I don't see any reason why this would not be fixable through a firmware update. Hopefully HuggyBear gets somewhere with Westinghouse Support.

I emailed Westinghouse about the SPDIF audio out... I mentioned this site and how this is a concern to many people contemplating buying a unit so hopefully I get a good response.

This is my understanding of how the audio works -

In the menu, you can select whether HDMI uses digital or analog audio. If you select digital, the TX expects to receive audio as well as video from the HDMI input. If you select analog, the RCA audio inputs that go with the HDMI connection are activated and the TX expects to receive the audio from there. This would be used if you are only passing video via the hdmi connection.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with the SPDIF output... if you select the speakers as "mixed" or "external", audio will be passed via the SPDIF out.

I was under the impression that the SPDIF out ONLY passes audio that is coming in from the tuner - I didn't even think it would pass audio coming in from another source such as HDMI ... so far I have only been able to get 2 channel audio from the SPDIF out from the tuner - it did not pass audio that was coming in from my PS3 via HDMI.

Has anyone passed audio out of the SPDIF out from a source other than the tuner?
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post #197 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Sevens View Post


On 480P fill mode, I seem to get 0% overscan on the sides of the picture, but about 5% on the top and bottom. Is there any way to fix this?

When calibrating with DVE, I was able to get the blue nearly perfect and the red pretty close, but the green seems significantly off. I can see green in what's supposedly a magenta secton of the test pattern when using the filters.

Black levels are nowhere near actually black, but I suppose that's just how LCDs are. I'd rather have that than a picture which will be notable degraded in 4 years or so.

There are no dead or stuck pixels so far as I can see.

I get visual ringing with 1080P sources on component. I assume this isn't the TVs fault. It's my switch, but I'd hate to have to reach around the TV whenever I want to switch sources. I may just have to upgrade to a 360 Elite.

Fill mode includes overscan and this is deliberate by design. You shouldn't ever need to use FILL unless the noise present at the edges of analog broadcasts bothers you. STANDARD is your friend, unless you want to stretch the image with the strangely named OVERSCAN mode.

Note that the calibration screen in DVE you reference is meant to set color and tint using only the blue channel. There is a little bit of overlap on those color bars so that might be what's confusing you with the green/magenta thing. The colors are there to indicate color decoding accuracy via use of the filters. If the red bar looks identical to the background when viewed through the red filter then red decoding is accurate on the set. Same for green. If this is what you've checked then that is troubling. Green decoding push is bad news.

Yes the blacks will visibly glow, but this is greatly reduced by using the proper amount of backlighting for your viewing environment. Unless you have the room lighting on the backlight should always be set to the minimum setting for a dim room. Even this is still too bright for movie viewing.

If you see ringing it means you're introducing edge enhancement through the sharpness control. That control should be set to 0 unless Westinghouse has chosen to (stupidly) set the zero point at the middle of the scale, in this case 50.
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post #198 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huggybear View Post

I emailed Westinghouse about the SPDIF audio out... I mentioned this site and how this is a concern to many people contemplating buying a unit so hopefully I get a good response.

This is my understanding of how the audio works -

In the menu, you can select whether HDMI uses digital or analog audio. If you select digital, the TX expects to receive audio as well as video from the HDMI input. If you select analog, the RCA audio inputs that go with the HDMI connection are activated and the TX expects to receive the audio from there. This would be used if you are only passing video via the hdmi connection.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with the SPDIF output... if you select the speakers as "mixed" or "external", audio will be passed via the SPDIF out.

I was under the impression that the SPDIF out ONLY passes audio that is coming in from the tuner - I didn't even think it would pass audio coming in from another source such as HDMI ... so far I have only been able to get 2 channel audio from the SPDIF out from the tuner - it did not pass audio that was coming in from my PS3 via HDMI.

Has anyone passed audio out of the SPDIF out from a source other than the tuner?

I am able to get audio out the SPDIF connector from an HDMI source, but it's 2-channel audio... my TWC HD DVR and my new Sony upconvert DVD player. However, when I had my Samsung upconvert DVD player connected HDMI and had it configured what it called Bitstream, instead of PCM, it DID play DD5.1 to my receiver, but no sound out of the TV, even in the Mixed setting. I also got a message on the screen (I think from the DVD player) that stated HDMI audio not supported, but it did work. Weird, I know.
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post #199 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcalibur_255 View Post

Fill mode includes overscan and this is deliberate by design. You shouldn't ever need to use FILL unless the noise present at the edges of analog broadcasts bothers you. STANDARD is your friend, unless you want to stretch the image with the strangely named OVERSCAN mode.

That's what I've been saying. However, connect a 16:9 source to the component input (480p or 480i) and the tv will add the black bars to the sides when in "normal" mode.
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post #200 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcalibur_255 View Post

Fill mode includes overscan and this is deliberate by design. You shouldn't ever need to use FILL unless the noise present at the edges of analog broadcasts bothers you. STANDARD is your friend, unless you want to stretch the image with the strangely named OVERSCAN mode.

Note that the calibration screen in DVE you reference is meant to set color and tint using only the blue channel. There is a little bit of overlap on those color bars so that might be what's confusing you with the green/magenta thing. The colors are there to indicate color decoding accuracy via use of the filters. If the red bar looks identical to the background when viewed through the red filter then red decoding is accurate on the set. Same for green. If this is what you've checked then that is troubling. Green decoding push is bad news.

Yes the blacks will visibly glow, but this is greatly reduced by using the proper amount of backlighting for your viewing environment. Unless you have the room lighting on the backlight should always be set to the minimum setting for a dim room. Even this is still too bright for movie viewing.

If you see ringing it means you're introducing edge enhancement through the sharpness control. That control should be set to 0 unless Westinghouse has chosen to (stupidly) set the zero point at the middle of the scale, in this case 50.

Keeping standard mode engaged is the way to go when employing hi-def sources, but it becomes a problem when using 480i/480p sources. The only way to fill the whole screen is by using "Fill" mode. For example, if I'm playing an Xbox game which outputs in 16:9, I'd have to use "Fill" mode in order to fill the entire screen and get the correct aspect ratio. Why they would want to introduce 5% overscan on top and bottom is beyond me.

I currently use the 47W1 and when fed 16:9 480i/480p, the only thing Fill does is to stretch the image across the entire screen without introducing any overscan, which is how it should be. Hopefully, a firmware upgrade can address the issue on the TX series.
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post #201 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmogeek View Post

That's what I've been saying. However, connect a 16:9 source to the component input (480p or 480i) and the tv will add the black bars to the sides when in "normal" mode.

That's because their is no such thing as a 16:9 480p or 480i source. Widescreen DVD's are actually encoded in 4:3 and they are then stretched to 16:9 proportions.
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post #202 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmogeek View Post

That's what I've been saying. However, connect a 16:9 source to the component input (480p or 480i) and the tv will add the black bars to the sides when in "normal" mode.

That is how it works, at least on the 47W1. The display does not know the aspect ratio of the incoming signal when fed 480i/480p. In "Normal" mode, it will ALWAYS display a 480i/480p signal in 4:3 format with black bars on the sides. If the incoming signal is 4:3, then the aspect ratio will be correct, but if the incoming signal is 16:9, the image will be distorted. The only way to get the proper image with incoming 16:9 480i/480p signal will be by using "Fill" mode.

The unfortunate part about using "Fill" mode on the new TX set is the introduction of 5% overscan on top and bottom. LVM-47W1 does not exhibit this behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milicz View Post

That's because their is no such thing as a 16:9 480p or 480i source. Widescreen DVD's are actually encoded in 4:3 and they are then stretched to 16:9 proportions.

Nevertheless, the problem persists. Just because dvd movies are encoded in 4:3 has no bearing on the current problem with this TX set. You still have to use the "Fill" option to fit the 16:9 image being output by the dvd player or a game console across the entire screen without any geometry distortions. While doing that, you are losing 5% of the image on top and bottom.
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post #203 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

I am able to get audio out the SPDIF connector from an HDMI source, but it's 2-channel audio... my TWC HD DVR and my new Sony upconvert DVD player. However, when I had my Samsung upconvert DVD player connected HDMI and had it configured what it called Bitstream, instead of PCM, it DID play DD5.1 to my receiver, but no sound out of the TV, even in the Mixed setting. I also got a message on the screen (I think from the DVD player) that stated HDMI audio not supported, but it did work. Weird, I know.

I can second this. My Scientific Atlanta 8300 cable box was sending stereo audio over HDMI which was then passed through SPDIF to my receiver. I could not get Dolby Digital over HDMI regardless of what settings I used on the cable box.

My upconverting Sony DVD player also sent stereo audio over HDMI which was then passed through SPDIF. I could not get this to send a 5.1 signal either.

The Samsung situation mentioned by jbradg makes sense. Setting the DVD player to Bitstream passed the Dolby Digital to the TV and the TV passed it to the receiver. The TV did not play the audio, probably because it doesn't have a dolby digital decoder. Additionally, the HDMI audio handshaking determined that the TV wouldn't be able to play the Dolby Digital, hence the error message that HDMI audio was not supported. Does this sound right?
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post #204 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:15 PM
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i'm beginning to think that hdmi can be more of a problem than it's worth. i mean all it really does is reduce the number of cables. i tend to stay away from it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradg View Post

You know, I've had that HDMI source issue at least twice. It wouldn't lock onto the HDMI source when I was switching back and forth between devices. As for the power off, you can change it to Energy Save mode (or something like that) in the power menu. However, it sure takes a long time for the TV to come on when in that setting, but I've left it in energy save mode.

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post #205 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milicz View Post

That's because their is no such thing as a 16:9 480p or 480i source. Widescreen DVD's are actually encoded in 4:3 and they are then stretched to 16:9 proportions.

That's not quite right. Both 4:3 and 16:9 source formats have been available to DVDs from day 1. Many older widescreen titles are encoded as 4:3 letterboxed, but all anamorphic titles are encoded 16:9.

480i/p signals can be 16:9.

-Bill
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post #206 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milicz View Post

That's because their is no such thing as a 16:9 480p or 480i source. Widescreen DVD's are actually encoded in 4:3 and they are then stretched to 16:9 proportions.

Apparently, some DVD players know how to tell a TV that it should stretch this content, and some TVs know how to listen for that signal. Apparently, these Westinghouse TVs don't know how to listen for that message, so they display everything they get that's 4:3 in a 4:3 box, unless you use "Fill."

One workaround is to use an upconverting DVD player. If the DVD player is sending a 720p, 1080i or 1080p signal, the TV will think that's a widescreen signal and display the picture properly.
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post #207 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aindik View Post

One workaround is to use an upconverting DVD player. If the DVD player is sending a 720p, 1080i or 1080p signal, the TV will think that's a widescreen signal and display the picture properly.

That is exactly what I ended up doing. I pulled the upconverting/HDMI dvd player from my bedroom and retired my old RP91 until my HD-DVD player comes which should be tomorrow. Sending 720p from that dvd has given me no trouble.
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post #208 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMM3 View Post

i'm beginning to think that hdmi can be more of a problem than it's worth. i mean all it really does is reduce the number of cables. i tend to stay away from it.

HDMI was designed for studios to protect their content and had nothing to do with providing customers with better quality video or any other crap like that.
Here is article that explains some of it:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...tter-with-hdmi
It won't be easy to stay away from HDMI, but I do miss DVI ports that older sets have and are missing on TX line.
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post #209 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

That's not quite right. Both 4:3 and 16:9 source formats have been available to DVDs from day 1. Many older widescreen titles are encoded as 4:3 letterboxed, but all anamorphic titles are encoded 16:9.

480i/p signals can be 16:9.

-Bill

I'm not an expert, but from what I have read all 480i/p signals are 4:3, they are encoded squished so that they will look good in a letterbox format. That's why you tell your DVD player what kind of TV it is outputting to. Tell your DVD player that the TV is widescreen when it is not and you should get a squished fullscreen picture. The TX simply keeps all 480i/p material in its native 4:3 format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik View Post

Apparently, some DVD players know how to tell a TV that it should stretch this content, and some TVs know how to listen for that signal. Apparently, these Westinghouse TVs don't know how to listen for that message, so they display everything they get that's 4:3 in a 4:3 box, unless you use "Fill."

One workaround is to use an upconverting DVD player. If the DVD player is sending a 720p, 1080i or 1080p signal, the TV will think that's a widescreen signal and display the picture properly.

Bingo! That's what I do with my LVM even though I don't have an overscan issue, I suggest getting the DVP5982 as it is ridiculously cheap at BB right now.
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post #210 of 6184 Old 05-29-2007, 02:37 PM
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Ok, so people are saying that the Fill mode crops 5% on the top and bottom, so that's 10% total?

Also, does it crop or stretch the image vertically? Because if it crops 5% top and bottom, that means it's zooming in on the image and cropping the sides slightly as well. Although yes this may not be a concern for many people, I will find this very irritating if it overscans alot. I can live with a little overscan, but if it's ~10% overall, that might be a little much.

I am still running a non-upconverting dvd player and play an xbox from time to time. I will be getting a ps3 in a few months, but I just got a Wii and I'd hate if too much of the image was cropped. I guess we'll see when I get it in a couple days...
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