Official Sony W3000 Series Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackratJoey View Post

i have the 40v3000 and when i set my refresh rate to 24hz and play king kong hd-dvd in powerdvd on my computer through my 88oogtx dvi to hdmi i notice smoother playback than if i leave it at 60hz. 24hz also seems to show more detail or something it just looks different to my eyes.

better saturation of color....maybe?.....I still personally think its running at 120hz for the 24 fps and its an undocumented feature, so they can differentiate the XBR.

I have no evidence of this except the Ws ability to display 24fps correctly....and a good knowledge of how to cost cut parts by standardization and larger purchase orders. Put in the same part and enable selective features.
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post #362 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

You are very welcome!
The reason I did not recommend top of the line TV sets in your case was poor resolution of sources you going to use.
Resolution is one of the major (IMO) parameter of overall PQ. So if you were not going to go FHD (1080p) you would not see the difference anyway.

this is wrong actually.....read the importance of 1080P in Westa's profile.

1080P can display 1080i at its full resolution full frame....a 720P set can not.
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post #363 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 10:45 AM
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yes i switched computer output to 24p with nvidia control panel
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post #364 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazk View Post

It seems that the w3000 may represent a sweet spot in sony's line, but what do you all think?

I would agree...maybe, actually for cost, the V3000s but as time goes by the difference is only 1-200....and the W casing is nicer...and it has the 1.3 which may be useful at some point years from now.

The XBR adds a better bravia chip...helpful for SD stuff mostly is the difference. Mostly....probably a smidge on HD stuff too.

1800-1 vs 2000-1 Contrast....which is nice....but the W is not lacking

and the biggy....is the 120hz refresh. Which sadly could be a must have feature. 120hz eliminates any question of needing a plasma for sports.

If the minor blur with the current W does not bother you, its a great TV...and many will not care about the blur. Its not like the blur of years ago....it is minor or trivial. But the XBR is going to more crisp.

fwiw imo the XBR4 will not be significantly bettered for years.....it will get better....but not like you will be missing anything, unless you are a maniac about this stuff...which many here are. It will get cheaper.

Sony sells the D3000 which is the S3000 with 120hz....I think that is sweet spot at 40 inches.....sadly its only sold up in Canada and Europe.

Anyone every use a Canadian TV in the US eh?
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post #365 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 12:00 PM
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thanks tom, the tradeoffs you pointed out are what I wanted to know more about. So the 120 hz refresh rate is only in the xbr's, or is it undocumented feature in the w's that you mentioned above in post 365? I really couldn't tell what the final conclusion was and how much of a difference this made. I've waited a long time to get an HD set, so seems like XBR may be the way to go. I want to feel satisfied for a long time.
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post #366 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazk View Post

thanks tom, the tradeoffs you pointed out are what I wanted to know more about. So the 120 hz refresh rate is only in the xbr's, or is it undocumented feature in the w's that you mentioned above in post 365? I really couldn't tell what the final conclusion was and how much of a difference this made. I've waited a long time to get an HD set, so seems like XBR may be the way to go. I want to feel satisfied for a long time.

I think they are using 120hz internally for displaying the 24fps. But the V/W3000s are not using it for displaying normal signals....like HDTV over the air...or sports games....anything else.

the main benefit of 120 is to clean up everything that is moving on screen....the example many use including JVC is a ticker moving across the screen.

Many who have played with the XBR say the 120hz is amazing....I have not been able to compare with equal sources yet. The only one I had access to had a blueray outputing at full 1080P...which is not a fair test to attempt against over the air split signal and amplified 1080i

The big difference is the XBR has the 120hz....the rest of the sonys do not.... the W has the 24fps display capability though, whether that is done via 120hz or some other means.....owners report it works very very well...and is noticeably better.

I think the XBR4....is a TV that will go for years without be significantly bettered....(emphasis on significant....minor enhancements yes) The price of the W has gone down in the last weeks.....so you may want to let some of the newness price premium burn off the XBR4s if you go that way.

I really am impressed by the quality of the picture of the 40S3000.....though the step up to the V3000 seems very reasonable.

Costco has the 46V3000 in costco model number right now FWIW, for hundreds less than the 40XBR4
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post #367 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

this is wrong actually.....read the importance of 1080P in Westa's profile.

1080P can display 1080i at its full resolution full frame....a 720P set can not.

Thank you, for this comment. Generally speaking I agree with you. But if other parameters are more or less equal (like CR, Deep Color, 120Hz, 24Hz, WCG, etc) and this is our case, the resolution will be the major PQ contributor.
AG
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post #368 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knmlee View Post

Has anyone watched the blu-ray "Invincible" on their W3000? I played it on a PS3 connected to my W3000 and it had major color problems. The picture was very yellow. Normally, this is a yellow looking movie, but on the W3000 it really bad. You could see yellow blotches on every face. I tried all of the normal settings (Standard, Cinema, etc.). To get rid of the yellow problem, I had to turn the color control down to about 40 and the tint control to R5. This cured the problem for this movie, but it looked bad on other sources.

Colors look fine when playing other movies or when playing DirecTV. And the blu-ray disc looks fine in my theater room playing on a projector.

Could it be a problem with the PS3? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Mark

did you change your white/color balance? it's probably on Warm2. try Warm1 or Cool.
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post #369 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 02:08 PM
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I’d like to propose the following New User Template:
1. Model name –
2. Bought date and place –
3. Manufacturing date and place –
4. Software Version – (available from XMB Product Support > Contact Sony)
5. Firmware Version – (available from SM: from the TV turned OFF shortly push one button after another on remote: Display > 5 > Vol+ > Power. Turn TV off to exit.)
6. Detected Issues – (if any)
7. Comments – (pros and cons)

Feel free to add/edit this template. If agreed it suppose to be mandatory for each new user to fill this template.
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post #370 of 3238 Old 08-21-2007, 10:07 PM
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My 52" W3000 should be here Friday. I can't wait!

~Josh

hidefpreview
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post #371 of 3238 Old 08-22-2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illdefined View Post

did you change your white/color balance? it's probably on Warm2. try Warm1 or Cool.

I've seen the same thing. Only some movies. Deja Vu over On Demand HD, and some DVDs.

Some settings seem to help, but it was really apparent in Deja Vu.

Mark
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post #372 of 3238 Old 08-22-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howdy Doody View Post

[On a winter high mountain climbing scene the most natural color was on the W set.
The W's overall image was a bit whiter & lighter than than the other sets. Foregroound snow was a tad over-exposed, the sky was robin's egg blue (perhaps a tad too light), the red clothing was perfectly exposed.

I can only assume that the other sets had different factory settings. They all looked much the same; namely, 10% underexposed. Reds looked excessive, the image was too dfark overall, and the beautiful winter sky's blue was approaching black.

As I noted before, when you reset all of these sets to factory defaults, and set the sets to "Standard", there is a clear and major difference in colors between the 40W3000/40XBR4 and the 40XBR2/46XBR2. I'm not saying one is more correct than the others. But it is very clear that Sony has changed their default color settings from last year's models to this years.
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post #373 of 3238 Old 08-22-2007, 06:42 PM
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My 52W3000 arrived yesterday and is now on the wall. Haven't had much time to play with it yet, though. The only setting changes I've kept are picture mode to standard and black corrector to high. Only signal so far is digital cable. Thinking of HD satellite, will connect PS3 for BD as time permits.

No signs of clouding or stuck pixels. Overall, happy so far.
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post #374 of 3238 Old 08-22-2007, 09:42 PM
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I have had my 46W3000 for about 2 weeks now. I too have noticed in several films the yellowish tinge especially to peoples faces, especially in Hot Fuzz. I just watched Shooter and any indoor shots where it is night out and they have normal indoors lights Mark Wahlberg's face had a distinct yellow tinge to it. I have tried many different settings and nothing really seems to make it go away completely. I am considering exchanging for a different set. Otherwise I really like the TV, no clouds and no dead pixels.
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post #375 of 3238 Old 08-22-2007, 10:56 PM
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I am having a hard time accepting the image clarity and sharpness on even the 1080i HD channels. I had a v2500 for a brief period last year and recall the images to be much sharper. For example, if the tv show focuses on the face of someone in the foreground, its hard to make out the details of faces in the background. I dont notice the texture of things as much like wrinkles and pock marks on faces..the image has a real smoothed over look. The menu bar is also not as sharp. Has anyone noticed any differences between the W and new V3000 in regard to sharpness?

Thanks.
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post #376 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 08:07 AM
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DrJones,

I also noticed the same thing while watching "invincible". But I was watching the movie on SD (480i). So I don't know if it is good comparison.
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post #377 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 09:37 AM
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come on guys, keep this forum alive. TALK
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post #378 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 11:00 AM
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Will these sony's do 120hz through component (via xbox360)? Also, is the 120 motion feature like Samsung's (could be selected or deselected as well as set to low medium or high)?

Thanks,
Jeremy
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post #379 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 11:08 AM
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I did some further testing viewing Hot Fuzz. I have also have a Toshiba Regza 2006 model. I watched multiple scenes but the best scene is when they are performing the Romeo/Juliet play. I switched back and forth between the two (w3000 and the toshiba lcd). On the w3000 the scene looked horrible, like really bad fluoscent lighting with a extremely bad yellowish tint. Played the same scene on the Toshiba looked normal.

Now my wife thinks Im crazy about stuff sometimes so I had her watch the same scene on both TVs. Now she is not interested in electronics/TVs, she doesnt care about specs, etc. Her reaction was the same, that it looked horrible and was definitely not watchable. She immediately seconded my idea to exchange it. No amount of tweaking on the settings could make it go away completely.

Now I am off to exchange it and get something else. I dont know if my set is just defective or if the color scheme of the set is just poor. Several other people are also noticing the yellow tint as well. I guess only time will tell if this is a common issue.

I guess I am going to try either the Samsung 4661 or 4665 next.
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post #380 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 11:42 AM
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s***. I replaced mine with 46W3000, and now your issue with yellow tint is making me crazy. I am also thinking of returning my w3000.
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post #381 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 02:11 PM
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malikriz, DrJones,

I bought my 46W3000 3 weeks ago. I see no yellow tint, and all looks quite natural. However, I've adjusted my settings and tweaked them constantly in the past 3 weeks. I'm quite happy with my settings. I really believe that this TV needs a settings calibration thread.

I'm currently focusing on the clarity and sharpness issue that 'scamper' brought up. I have not yet seen this for certain. For both colors and clarity, I've noticed that some source material is just plain poor and is ineligible for review.
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post #382 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 02:18 PM
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Well I just got back and exchanged my w3000 for a samsung 4661. Yellow tint is gone. Colors look much better and clearer. Even my non-tech wife noticed a big difference. I used many different settings and I could never get the yellow out completely. Maybe my set was bad, but others are noticing the yellow too.
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post #383 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbong View Post

malikriz, DrJones,

I bought my 46W3000 3 weeks ago. I see no yellow tint, and all looks quite natural. However, I've adjusted my settings and tweaked them constantly in the past 3 weeks. I'm quite happy with my settings. I really believe that this TV needs a settings calibration thread.

I'm currently focusing on the clarity and sharpness issue that 'scamper' brought up. I have not yet seen this for certain. For both colors and clarity, I've noticed that some source material is just plain poor and is ineligible for review.

Hey dbong, Do you mind posting your calibration settings for us to see? I'm in the process of calibrating my w3000 and could use some guidance. Thanks in advance.
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post #384 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 04:21 PM
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I hope this helps. I originally used Vivid as a starting reference. Post yours, I'd like to see others.

Custom - Input TV - built-in QAM Tuner - Settings

Backlight 4
Picture 98
Brightness 46
Color 54
Hue 0
Color Temperature Neutral
Sharpness 76
Noise Reduction Auto
MPEG Reduction Off

DRC Mode Unavailable

Advanced Settings
Black Corrector Medium
Advanced CE Medium
Gamma Medium
Clear White High
Color Space Wide
Live Color Off

White Balance (No change- All 0)
Detail Enhancer High
Edge Enhancer High

----------------------------------------------------

Custom - INPUT Satellite Receiver - Settings

Backlight 4
Picture 98
Brightness 46
Color 70
Hue 0
Color Temperature Neutral
Sharpness 74
Noise Reduction Off
MPEG Reduction Off

DRC Mode High Density
DRC Palette Reality 50 - Clarity 10

Advanced Settings
Black Corrector Medium
Advanced CE Medium
Gamma Medium
Clear White High
Color Space Wide
Live Color High

White Balance (No change- All 0)
Detail Enhancer High
Edge Enhancer High
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post #385 of 3238 Old 08-23-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbong View Post

I'm currently focusing on the clarity and sharpness issue that 'scamper' brought up. I have not yet seen this for certain. For both colors and clarity, I've noticed that some source material is just plain poor and is ineligible for review.

I agree that some source material is just plain poor.

Regarding the clarity and sharpness, I am not seeing any problems with my 52W3000. Yes, the menus are not really sharp, but it's by design - i.e. a lot of antialiasing is used. The effect is the same on the XBR4 - i.e. the menus at first don't look sharp enough. The XBR2 menus at first seem sharper, but if you get up close to them, you find that they, too, use anti-aliasing, but a lot less of it due to the older menu design (i.e. no XMB). Actually, it may not be anti-aliasing that is the culprit. I'm really getting the impression that the menus are rendered internally at, say, 720p, and then scaled to the 1080p panel. Must be a limitation of the internal chipset inside the TV. By comparison, the TiVo Series 3 also renders it's menus at 720p - these look less smoothed and a little chunkier on the W3000 (sent as 720p in native mode over HDMI) than the menus built-in to the W3000. So, the W3000 must be doing a lot of smoothing of the internal menu images before displaying it on the screen. This is actually quite annoying - i.e. why didn't they just use a more powerful menu system and display the darn things at 1080p?????

I have a PS3 connected via HDMI, set to 1080p, and I have made sure that the W3000 is configured to "Full Pixel" with no overscan for this input. The PS3 interface looks absolutely beautiful. It is razor sharp, and quite amazing. This tells me that there is no issue with the actual LCD panel - it is very sharp.

I have also set the HDMI input connected to my TiVo Series 3 to "Full Pixel", so that 1080i signals will be displayed in native resolution (aside from the conversion in the TV to progressive). This again will give the sharpest image. The downside is that due to no overscanning when set to full pixel, on some standard def channels (or when SD stuff is being broadcast on HD stations), sometimes you can see unintended stuff at the edge of the picture - i.e. stuff in the signal that is normally hidden due to overscan.

[I wish you could set the picture size settings per source format, as opposed to per input. This would allow me to set normal overscan for SD stuff, but use Full Pixel for 1080i signals....]
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post #386 of 3238 Old 08-24-2007, 05:32 AM
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I like mine.No issue yet.
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post #387 of 3238 Old 08-24-2007, 11:41 AM
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It should not take 3 weeks of claibration to find an acceptable picture.

The only way I can watch HD is through Vivid as this is the sharpest setting and it still looks dull. All of the other settings are not sharp enough. This really limits choice.

The other settings, which there seems to be numerous, hardly make a noticable difference to the picture. I also recognize the yellow hue on most source material as if every show is being fimed CSI Miami style.

I had 3 v2500's before this TV which I had to return based on cloudiness. The sharpness and brilliance was much better on that TV (v2500) than the W. I wish I have never become a Sony Fanboy as it makes it difficult to see whats truly there and to consider other options.

Does anyone out there think that the V3000 is sharper?
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post #388 of 3238 Old 08-24-2007, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post

I have made sure that the W3000 is configured to "Full Pixel" with no overscan for this input.

How do you do this?

I bought a Sony 1080p upscaling DVD player (DVP-NS77) to go with my new 40W3000... It sounds like I should set this input is set to "Full Pixel" but I don't recall seeing that option. BTW, I'm blown away by the PQ of my "regular" DVDs in this player.

I too have spent several days making tweeks to my W3000, and I'm very happy with this TV.. I *might* have a slight clouding issue, but I need some more time to test this. This is my first LCD, so I'm not sure how much unevenness is acceptable. If the answer is none, then I definitely have a small amount of clouding, but it doesn't bother me. I'll test and post more about this later.

So far my only criticism has to do with the audio. There is something wrong with the sound when I'm watching TV from my cable box (via HDMI). Certain sounds, like audience clapping, sound "tinny" and have an weird ring to them. The surround option on the TV only makes it worse. The problem is probably originating in my cable box (SA explorer), because the RCA outputs from the cable box sound better. So, I'd like to use the RCA cables into the W3000, but apparently if the HDMI single contains audio, it ignores the RCA jacks. So, when I unplug the HDMI, I get a blank screen and good audio. When I plug the HDMI cable in, I get the picture with crappy audio Anyone have any ideas?
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post #389 of 3238 Old 08-24-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illdefined View Post

did you change your white/color balance? it's probably on Warm2. try Warm1 or Cool.

It was on Neutral. I'll try the Cool setting.
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post #390 of 3238 Old 08-24-2007, 12:58 PM
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RyanCT - Try using component cables instead. that way you still get high resolution video and can use RCA audio jacks. HDMI is not always what it is cracked up to be IMO.
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