Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bishi View Post

I am currently testing to see whether i prefer auto2 for film-based [ which disables motion-flow completely ].

May I ask what you're basing this statement on? Anything documented?

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post #302 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Agent_C View Post

May I ask what you're basing this statement on? Anything documented?

A_C

in the owners manual of the 32 inch it says that it does. and to my eyes it does also. however like i said, i think auto2 incorporates the 24p true cinema feature of the xbr4's. In auto2 from what ive watched it is very smooth but just not the realistic live 3d type smoothness of auto1 + motionflow

Im at a school computer and for some reason cant cut and paste the pdf portion i want but i will quote,

"Auto1 - For standard use and to provide smoother picture movement"

"Auto2 - picture movement will be similar to that of the original film. Motion Enhancer setting does not effect film-based content in Auto2 mode"

"For film-based content, set CineMotion to Auto1 to enjoy the full benefit of motionflow"
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post #303 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bishi View Post

in the owners manual of the 32 inch it says that it does. and to my eyes it does also. however like i said, i think auto2 incorporates the 24p true cinema feature of the xbr4's. In auto2 from what ive watched it is very smooth but just not the realistic live 3d type smoothness of auto1 + motionflow

Im at a school computer and for some reason cant cut and paste the pdf portion i want but i will quote,

"Auto1 - For standard use and to provide smoother picture movement"

"Auto2 - picture movement will be similar to that of the original film. Motion Enhancer setting does not effect film-based content in Auto2 mode"

"For film-based content, set CineMotion to Auto1 to enjoy the full benefit of motionflow"

When people reference "film-based content", are they talking about 24p?
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post #304 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

When people reference "film-based content", are they talking about 24p?

not 100% sure, but I would think so since most every film ever made was filmed at 24fps. That is why the 24p true cinema in the sony xbrs was very nice, altho the w series may have it too, not sure. Sony emphasizes this in their description of 24p on their site
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post #305 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 03:23 PM
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Anyone know which is better to output to the xbr4 from HD DVR....YCC 4:4:4 or RGB, in the manual for the Motorola 6416 III it doesnt say and on wikibooks it says one will obviously be wrong colorwise but both work and the RGB might actually look a teeny bit better.

Difference that I can see is RGB conversion is done in DVR and the YCC one is done in the TV.
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post #306 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Does anybody know if the 32XBR4 is capable of displaying 1080p24 content at 720p24???

Brandon

Yup, just what i am wondering. Doesn't seem to make sense but there are people out there that are thinking so. I dunno. Anyone?

BTW, I set my Oppo to output at 720p and the picture does looks slightly better. Thanx
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post #307 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MrJitters View Post

Yup, just what i am wondering. Doesn't seem to make sense but there are people out there that are thinking so. I dunno. Anyone?

MrJ

The 32", per manual and Sony lit., will accept a 1080p/24 input, but will only be displayed in it's native resolution of 720p.
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post #308 of 5494 Old 09-24-2007, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

The 32", per manual and Sony lit., will accept a 1080p/24 input, but will only be displayed in it's native resolution of 720p.

Also accepts 1080p/60 from my Oppo, however with my picture better from the Oppo at 720p it certainly would confirm that to be the case. Thanx for everyones input.

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post #309 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MrJitters View Post

[the 32"] Also accepts 1080p/60 from my Oppo, however with my picture better from the Oppo at 720p it certainly would confirm that to be the case.

IMO, since the KDL-32XBR4 has a good scaler of its own, you will get a better picture sending unscaled 480i into it from your DVD player than doing two scaling steps, one in the player and another in the TV. The panel is 768, not 720, plus there is overscan, so when you send 720p into the set, it will scale it up to about 800 lines. The other consideration is which component has a better deinterlacer - a cheap progressive scan DVD player will not do as good a job as the XBR4, and ISTR that the Faroudja processor in the Oppo 981 doesn't do the 480p conversion, so I wouldn't be too sure how well it would compare.

480i looks a tiny bit better than 480p to me on the KDL-32XBR4 (slightly smoother pans on some material). Again, it seems best to give the set a "raw" feed from the DVD to give the MotionFlow, etc. stuff the best chance of working - don't get two separate video processors involved if you can make one do the whole job in one step. When I tried the Oppo 981 with the KDL-32XBR4, I wasn't quite happy with the picture at 480p, so I swapped the player for the Oppo 980 (which has 480i over HDMI).

When I watch a PAL 576i DVD on my 32" XBR4 using my Oppo 980, I scale it to 1080i. That looks better to my eyes than scaling to 720p. (Scaling down to 480i would obviously be stupid.) Again, I think letting the TV's deinterlacer do its thing gives a better result with MotionFlow on the XBR4 series. The Oppo 981 did a better job with PAL conversions, but the 980 is decent and I have very few PAL discs.

Overall, I think there is too much "received wisdom" about the importance of upscaling DVD players; reality is that technology is moving so fast that we have constantly to reevaluate our beliefs.

All of the above refers to real DVDs, not torture test discs and is merely the set of implicit and explicit compromises that works best for me. Life is all about compromises...
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post #310 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 11:44 AM
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I've noticed a minor issue with my 52xbr4...

I set motionflow on high, and cinemotion on Auto1 to get the 'ultra-smooth' effect; The problem is, it seems to pixelate the video when the video moves too quickly (or even when someone is walking across the screen for example. It's like certain parts of their clothes don't keep up and you see tearing/artifacts in the picture in those spots). Is this 'normal', or do I have some other setting turned on that is creating the artifacts?

This is happening on both HD coming from the DVR, and also on BD video coming from my PS3 (each via HDMI)...

I like the smooth effect, unnatural as it is, but can't stand the artifacting...
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post #311 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by God_TM View Post

I've noticed a minor issue with my 52xbr4...

I set motionflow on high, and cinemotion on Auto1 to get the 'ultra-smooth' effect; The problem is, it seems to pixelate the video when the video moves too quickly (or even when someone is walking across the screen for example. It's like certain parts of their clothes don't keep up and you see tearing/artifacts in the picture in those spots). Is this 'normal', or do I have some other setting turned on that is creating the artifacts?

This is happening on both HD coming from the DVR, and also on BD video coming from my PS3 (each via HDMI)...

I like the smooth effect, unnatural as it is, but can't stand the artifacting...

And when you set Cinemotion to Auto2, what happens? Also, what do you have noise reduction set to?
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post #312 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God_TM View Post

I've noticed a minor issue with my 52xbr4...

I set motionflow on high, and cinemotion on Auto1 to get the 'ultra-smooth' effect; The problem is, it seems to pixelate the video when the video moves too quickly (or even when someone is walking across the screen for example. It's like certain parts of their clothes don't keep up and you see tearing/artifacts in the picture in those spots). Is this 'normal', or do I have some other setting turned on that is creating the artifacts?

This is happening on both HD coming from the DVR, and also on BD video coming from my PS3 (each via HDMI)...

I like the smooth effect, unnatural as it is, but can't stand the artifacting...

There's no doubt that the Auto1 effect introduces artifacts. It eliminates motion blur but creates artifacts in certain situations (ex: movement on dark backgrounds).

Brandon
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post #313 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 12:10 PM
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My noise reduction setting is turned off.

Auto2 is smooth, but doesn't have the cool un-natural look to it.

Also, it seems that if I have motionflow and cinemotion turned off, I still get some artifacting (albiet not as much as with those settings turned on). I'd blame the source, but the blue-ray video shouldn't have any artifacting in fast moving scenes, correct? (I've only tested with The Departed so far)
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post #314 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God_TM View Post

My noise reduction setting is turned off.

Auto2 is smooth, but doesn't have the cool un-natural look to it.

Also, it seems that if I have motionflow and cinemotion turned off, I still get some artifacting (albiet not as much as with those settings turned on). I'd blame the source, but the blue-ray video shouldn't have any artifacting in fast moving scenes, correct? (I've only tested with The Departed so far)

Brandon can correct me, but the general concensus in this forum is that Cinemotion=Auto1 is best used for 1080p/24 sources. Otherwise, leave Cinemotion=Auto2.
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post #315 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 01:09 PM
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Sorry, I wasn't being clear with my point. The point is that even with cinemotion set to Auto2 or Off (and motionflow set to off), it still has tearing/artifacting in the picture (thought not as bad, but still noticeable in certain scenes), coming from the blu-ray source. Is that normal?
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post #316 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 01:38 PM
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i prefer auto1, i dont notice many of the things that are mentioned here, maybe because of the smaller 32" display. When I put a 720 movie out from my comp via dvi>hdmi it looks great to me, the panning scenes included. Watched fifth element the other day and yea when motion is set to high you get some minor artifacts here and there but on standard hardly any at all throughout the whole movie which is definitely ok with me.

Also the panning in HDTV broadcasts looks smooth to my eyes, only channel i have noticed a decent amount of artifacts with motion on high is Universal HD when they playing that Dew Tour bike stunts and skateboard stunts
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post #317 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God_TM View Post

I've noticed a minor issue with my 52xbr4...

I set motionflow on high, and cinemotion on Auto1 to get the 'ultra-smooth' effect; The problem is, it seems to pixelate the video when the video moves too quickly (or even when someone is walking across the screen for example. It's like certain parts of their clothes don't keep up and you see tearing/artifacts in the picture in those spots). Is this 'normal', or do I have some other setting turned on that is creating the artifacts?

This is happening on both HD coming from the DVR, and also on BD video coming from my PS3 (each via HDMI)...

I like the smooth effect, unnatural as it is, but can't stand the artifacting...

I was able to recreate this same effect you are talking about last night when watching Winnie the Pooh with my little one. Tigger looked awful bouncing around!!
I have a Pioneer upconverting DVD player DV-400V-K connected to HDMI.
The main thing that did it for me was setting the Detail Enhancer & Edge Enhancer on HIGH. Turn those OFF or to LOW. Also I don't think it's good idea to have DRC Mode on. I have it set to off. Then you should be able to enjoy your Motionflow set to High and Cinemotion set to Auto 1 and have Tigger look like he's bouncing out at you with no artifacts. And I think it will help with the tearing as well. At least it did for me.

Also I think the name of this effect or artifacts we are describing around the people or characters is kind of like a mosaic effect. Like you you can use in video effect and photo software like Photoshop, After Effects, etc.- Video Effects - Mosaic Effect in EnhanceMovie video editing software ..Adobe Live Docs - After Effects - Mosaic Effect

The Sony Manual says that "MPEG Noise Reduction - reduces the mosaic effect in MPEG compressed video. Useful in DVD's and Digital TV Channels.

I've always had this set to off, but I'll have to give this a try tonight to see if it helps any. - Scratch that idea, it doesn't show up for HDMI connections.
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post #318 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 02:25 PM
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I have the 46" xbr5 and I just got a PS3 for BD playback.

Now, the current setup I am using is to have the PS3 and the 360 connnected to the XBR with HDMI and and optical cable to my receivier for sound (it is a yamaha that only supports DD/DTS 6.1)

Do I lose anything with this configuration? I am suspicious that the output from the TV is only giving me 2-channel PCM. Is this true or just an illusion? My receiver display is showing the output as pro logic PCM. When I use the PS3 optical out my receiver shows the output as matrix 6.2, dolby digital, etc.

Does the opitical out on the TV downscale the sound? If not then do you need special decoders for multi-channel PCM or is it transparent to any older multi-channel receiver?

Any help or config ideas would be appreciated, also should I set the PCM or bitstream option for the audio output for the PS3?
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post #319 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 02:53 PM
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Hello,
I just get my Sony 52KDL-XBR4. I connected to the SHAW cable source using DCT 6200 box and component cable. Could you please guide me for proper settings (calibration) of the TV, taking in consideration of quality of the SD channels?
Another question: is the Shaw cable box DCT 6200 will work good with DVI-HDMI cable?

Thanks
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post #320 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kozue25 View Post

I have the 46" xbr5 and I just got a PS3 for BD playback.

Now, the current setup I am using is to have the PS3 and the 360 connnected to the XBR with HDMI and and optical cable to my receivier for sound (it is a yamaha that only supports DD/DTS 6.1)

Do I lose anything with this configuration? I am suspicious that the output from the TV is only giving me 2-channel PCM. Is this true or just an illusion? My receiver display is showing the output as pro logic PCM. When I use the PS3 optical out my receiver shows the output as matrix 6.2, dolby digital, etc.

Does the opitical out on the TV downscale the sound?

Yes, according to Sony product support the optical out only supports multi-channel PCM for the internal tuner (makes sense, since that is the only way to get it). For HDMI inputs they say it only outputs stereo PCM.
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post #321 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheadland View Post

IMO, since the KDL-32XBR4 has a good scaler of its own, you will get a better picture sending unscaled 480i into it from your DVD player than doing two scaling steps, one in the player and another in the TV. The panel is 768, not 720, plus there is overscan, so when you send 720p into the set, it will scale it up to about 800 lines. The other consideration is which component has a better deinterlacer - a cheap progressive scan DVD player will not do as good a job as the XBR4, and ISTR that the Faroudja processor in the Oppo 981 doesn't do the 480p conversion, so I wouldn't be too sure how well it would compare.

480i looks a tiny bit better than 480p to me on the KDL-32XBR4 (slightly smoother pans on some material). Again, it seems best to give the set a "raw" feed from the DVD to give the MotionFlow, etc. stuff the best chance of working - don't get two separate video processors involved if you can make one do the whole job in one step. When I tried the Oppo 981 with the KDL-32XBR4, I wasn't quite happy with the picture at 480p, so I swapped the player for the Oppo 980 (which has 480i over HDMI).

When I watch a PAL 576i DVD on my 32" XBR4 using my Oppo 980, I scale it to 1080i. That looks better to my eyes than scaling to 720p. (Scaling down to 480i would obviously be stupid.) Again, I think letting the TV's deinterlacer do its thing gives a better result with MotionFlow on the XBR4 series. The Oppo 981 did a better job with PAL conversions, but the 980 is decent and I have very few PAL discs.

Overall, I think there is too much "received wisdom" about the importance of upscaling DVD players; reality is that technology is moving so fast that we have constantly to reevaluate our beliefs.

All of the above refers to real DVDs, not torture test discs and is merely the set of implicit and explicit compromises that works best for me. Life is all about compromises...

Thanx for all your info! Apparently the XBR-32 only upscales HDMI sources because the 480i output from my Oppo 980 looks much much better than it did from my non upscaling Pioneer player over component. I'm going to check out a couple of movies with the Oppo outputing at 480i. Thanx again.

MrJ

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post #322 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

My co-worker is a major tekkie and did calibrations(well helped) for a former job. I think he did great job with my cable hookup, so I'm sharing, he spent 2 hours on it. Via Component on SA 8300HD DVR cable box on 40XBR4:


Added: This was done at night with room lights turned off.

Custom:

Backlight: 4 (Added: with light sensor off, which I normally keep on)
Picture: 90
Brightness: 45
Color: 60
Hue: 0
Temp: COOL
Sharpness: 64
Noise Reduc: Low
Mpeg: Off
DRC: Off

Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: low
Gamma: Low
C White: Off
C Space: Standard
Live Color: Low

White Balance:

R Gain: -3
G Gain: -4
B Gain: -2
R Bias: +3
G Bias: -2
B Bias: +4

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: High

This really works well for me, let me know if you try it...and thoughts.

Love your settings. Thank you. Just set up the 46XBR4 tonight (had it for 3 weeks) and all I can say is wow! And after applying your settings, I know I made the right choice in buying this TV. Almost went with Tosh, but too much "green push" talk on the board. Plus I got such a great price on this set, it would have been stupid of me NOT to buy it. Can't wait to play some HD-DVD's this week. Looking forward to many enjoyable hours of fine viewing!!
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post #323 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GC Diver View Post

Love your settings. Thank you. Just set up the 46XBR4 tonight (had it for 3 weeks) and all I can say is wow! And after applying your settings, I know I made the right choice in buying this TV. Almost went with Tosh, but too much "green push" talk on the board. Plus I got such a great price on this set, it would have been stupid of me NOT to buy it. Can't wait to play some HD-DVD's this week. Looking forward to many enjoyable hours of fine viewing!!

I liked his settings also. I'm rethinking the settings I posted.

52XBR4
55HX929
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post #324 of 5494 Old 09-25-2007, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.MnTnA View Post

I was able to recreate this same effect you are talking about last night when watching Winnie the Pooh with my little one. Tigger looked awful bouncing around!!
I have a Pioneer upconverting DVD player DV-400V-K connected to HDMI.
The main thing that did it for me was setting the Detail Enhancer & Edge Enhancer on HIGH. Turn those OFF or to LOW. Also I don't think it's good idea to have DRC Mode on. I have it set to off. Then you should be able to enjoy your Motionflow set to High and Cinemotion set to Auto 1 and have Tigger look like he's bouncing out at you with no artifacts. And I think it will help with the tearing as well. At least it did for me.

Also I think the name of this effect or artifacts we are describing around the people or characters is kind of like a mosaic effect. Like you you can use in video effect and photo software like Photoshop, After Effects, etc.- Video Effects - Mosaic Effect in EnhanceMovie video editing software ..Adobe Live Docs - After Effects - Mosaic Effect

The Sony Manual says that "MPEG Noise Reduction - reduces the mosaic effect in MPEG compressed video. Useful in DVD's and Digital TV Channels.

I've always had this set to off, but I'll have to give this a try tonight to see if it helps any. - Scratch that idea, it doesn't show up for HDMI connections.

I am looking foward to trying this out. Does this work when you watch HD also or just for DVDs?

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post #325 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldPete View Post

Yes, according to Sony product support the optical out only supports multi-channel PCM for the internal tuner (makes sense, since that is the only way to get it). For HDMI inputs they say it only outputs stereo PCM.

Thank you, the Sony Manual is not very clear about a lot of things.

Do I need special support on my receiver for 5.1 PCM or can all receivers that can handle pro-logic, DD, DTS etc. output 5.1 PCM because it uncompressed?

I've looked on Yamaha's site and don't see any special PCM specs listed on their newest receiver only the new HD audios.

Thank you

emily
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post #326 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 07:36 AM
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Well, I am certainly glad to have found this forum and enter my first post. Coming from a 12 year old 36" XBR I am very impressed and a little intimidated by my new 40" XBR4! I have read all the posts in this thread and am still a bit confused. I have enjoyed them and applied the settings from gordong11 for my cable box (cablevision IO scientific atlantic box-non dvr) via HDMI and like it very much.
My question is, and forgive lack of a/v tech skills, what is the best way to utilize my PS3 for both games and movies via HDMI? Are there different settings for each that have certain benefits? While watching Casino Royale on blueray the first night in vivid was intoxicating on the factory settings but I think I may have burnt out my retina's .
Any recommendations on how to set for tv, hdtv, sports, movies and games would greatly be appreciated.
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post #327 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 07:39 AM
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Im wondering the same thing. I have an Xbox360 and a HD DVD player both hooked up via one hdmi cable. Seems like the movie settings throw the game off.
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post #328 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 08:34 AM
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Yep,saw that. I was thinking I could do a custom set up for movies and use the standard mode to do a setting for games? Not sure how to do two different selectable settings that can be applied to the same unit (PS3) with the same HDMI input.

Just a side note: can anyone tell me if the remote for my cable box is ir or rf. I want to get a repeater so I don't have to leave the cabinet door open to change channels. Thanks, not sure where to look in the forum yet.
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post #329 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GC Diver View Post

Love your settings. Thank you. Just set up the 46XBR4 tonight (had it for 3 weeks) and all I can say is wow! And after applying your settings, I know I made the right choice in buying this TV. Almost went with Tosh, but too much "green push" talk on the board. Plus I got such a great price on this set, it would have been stupid of me NOT to buy it. Can't wait to play some HD-DVD's this week. Looking forward to many enjoyable hours of fine viewing!!

I liked his settings also. However I have noticed that in scenes that have a lot of blacks and grays, Law and Order for example, the blacks are not too distinct. It could be the program in 1080i because DVD's and "Live" shows look spectacular with these settings.
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post #330 of 5494 Old 09-26-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Backdoc View Post

Yep,saw that. I was thinking I could do a custom set up for movies and use the standard mode to do a setting for games? Not sure how to do two different selectable settings that can be applied to the same unit (PS3) with the same HDMI input.

I have games s/u on custom and films on cinema. When you press the theatre button it switches to cinema settings. You can have the picture set up completely different for both with the exception of the motion enhancers.
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