Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 04:24 AM
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Nope. VITS stands for Vertical interval test signal. I.E. color bars, multiburst, NTC7 composite and the like. These are inserted for the benefit of distributors (cable and satellite companies) so they can set up their processors for correct levels, using waveform monitors and vectorscopes, that have the line select function. I should have put a comma in to differentiate between the two items.
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post #452 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bishi View Post

Not familiar with Tivos unfortunately but I am sure there are some amazing folks on here that can help you with that. From what you said tho, it sounds like it is the Tivo unit.

Actually, it's not the Tivo unit, nor is it the TV itself. As was described already, it's information contained in the actual broadcast signal.

Before HDTVs, overscan from TVs was expected and therefore nobody was worried about seeing this "hidden" information that was contained in the overscan area. Now that overscan is a bad thing and HDTVs are offering "full pixel" and "just scan" modes, this information that previously could not be seen on SD programming is now viewable.

Therefore, when you select full pixel on SD programming (and even SD shows on HD channels), you may see such things. The only way to get rid of it is to change the screen option to "normal" instead of "full pixel." As was already suggested, it's probably best to leave your cable/satellite feed on "normal" and your DVD/HD DVD/Blu-ray player feed on "full pixel." I have noticed, however, that watching film-based content on HBO HD needed "full pixel" mode to see all the information that the director intended.

Brandon
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post #453 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 05:59 AM
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Nicely stated, Brandon.
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post #454 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

The only problem with Auto2 is that it deactivates ME. So if you like to watch flim with ME then you can't use Auto2.

Good point. Seems like the tradeoff is between ME and possible Auto1 jitter or artifacts. Sony said, "...place the setting where you think jitter is minimized and the moving images are most clear for you." Pick one, perhaps?

Quote:


Auto1 with ME off should be the same thing as Auto2 with ME on, correct?

I wondered the same thing, but had already returned the rental BD I used for testing so I couldn't try to confirm it. Good hypothesis; it would be nice to know.

Quote:


Auto1 should also deactive Cinemotion for non-film based content. Therefore Auto1 with ME on standard should be the prefered setting for cable STB's. If that's producing an unatural picture then turn off ME. *confused*

Sounds reasonable. Going to try and look at more history before suggesting an expanded guideline.
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post #455 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Actually, it's not the Tivo unit, nor is it the TV itself. As was described already, it's information contained in the actual broadcast signal.

Before HDTVs, overscan from TVs was expected and therefore nobody was worried about seeing this "hidden" information that was contained in the overscan area. Now that overscan is a bad thing and HDTVs are offering "full pixel" and "just scan" modes, this information that previously could not be seen on SD programming is now viewable.

Therefore, when you select full pixel on SD programming (and even SD shows on HD channels), you may see such things. The only way to get rid of it is to change the screen option to "normal" instead of "full pixel." As was already suggested, it's probably best to leave your cable/satellite feed on "normal" and your DVD/HD DVD/Blu-ray player feed on "full pixel." I have noticed, however, that watching film-based content on HBO HD needed "full pixel" mode to see all the information that the director intended.

Brandon

By film-based content, do you mean 24p as opposed to 50p/60p? The reason I ask is because Sony uses that phrase in their manuals and documentation quite a bit in reference to the xbr's configuration settings (see Cinemotion, etc.).
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post #456 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

I like the FULL setting as well, but tonight while watching NBC HD, I got the silver band too. I had to set my display area to Normal instead of Full Pixel to get rid of it.

I wondered how you were able to use Full Pixel for network HD, and went back to the manual and realized that when I had tried to use it and wasn't able to the game was in 720p. I had set it instead to +1, which was better than nothing. For 1080i I just reset it back to full pixel. Now the TV switches from full pixel for 1080i to +1 for 720p.

SD, unfortunately, is upconverted by my HR20 to 1080i (even though it is set to Native), so I see the vertical interval and don't have +1 as a compromise option.
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post #457 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 08:11 AM
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Brandon or anybody else using the Motorola 3416 STB or the like,

Have you played with the 3416 STB output resolution? If you're using HDMI or Component connections to the xbr, you can enter "user settings" by powering OFF the STB and then pressing "Menu" on either the remote or button on the front of the STB.

From here, you can specify the output resolution for SD 4:3 content. By default, the STB passes a non-upconverted 480i signal to the TV.

Choices are:

1) 480i - Default. No upconversion is performed
2) 480p - STB upconverts SD signal to 480p
3) OFF - STB upconverts to 1080i with black bars on the sides
4) Stretch - STB upconverts to 1080i with the picture stretched to fit 16:9

Of course, the xbr will automatically upconvert any signal to it's native 1080p, but I'm wondering if anyone has used the STB to upconvert to 1080i and what kind of job you think the STB does with the SD upconvert signal.

I've tried them all and believe it or not, I think the best SD picture I get is setting the STB to upconvert to 480p and then let the xbr handle the rest. I know that typically STB's don't do as good of a job as the xbr when it comes to upconverting. Just wondering what others may have noticed??
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post #458 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cambotwist View Post

Dear fellow XBR owners,

I've owned a 40" Sony S2000, sold it. I've owned a 32" samsung lns3241d, sold that; i've also owned the model before the 41d as well. Ive owned a 46xbr2, sold that. (not in that order) And now im a proud owner of a sony xbr4.

What size is your xbr panel?

What model of Comcast STB are you using and are you using it to upconvert to 1080i to the xbr?

Quote:
"Drc Mode" is similar to the "detail" option or the "detail enhancer option" the higher the mode (mode 1, mode 2) the more detailed the picture quality becomes. This setting isnt good for jsut any feed. ("Mode 1" i suggest for 1080i cable/satellite, but if you have a good signal "mode 2" might work as well, but i usually just use it for video games.}

My experience is that DRC distorts SD broadcasts whether upconverted to 1080i from the STB or not.

Quote:
1080i Comcast cable feed (HDMI)

Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 7
Picture: 72
Brightness: 59
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: 90
Noise reduction: off
MPEG noise reduction: off
DRC mode: Mode 1
DRC Pallet: 60/85, 50/60

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: Off
Advanced C.E: low
Gamma: high
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: med
Edge enhancer: low

Blu_Ray(HDMI)

Picture Mode: cinema
Backlight: 8
Picture: 78
Brightness: 68
Color: 49
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: does'nt matter for blu ray
Noise reduction: off
MPEG noise reduction: off
DRC mode: off

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: low
Advanced C.E: med
Gamma: med
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: med
Edge enhancer: low

White Balance Menu/ defualt

Screen menu
Wide Mode: Wide Zoom
Auto Wide: On
4:3 Default: auto
Display Area: Full Pixel

Video Options menu
Motion Enhancer: Standard/high
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game/Text mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video
Video Color Space: default
Photo Color Space: defai;t
Color Matrix: Default
RGB Dynamic Range: default

I have the 52" and I continue to struggle to find balance between SD and HD with all these settings. True it can help true HD signals, but the drawback for me is that many of these settings adverely affects SD. I suppose I could use "Custom" picture mode for true HD cable settings and "Standard" picture mode for SD content, but that would mean that my wife and boys would have to switch picture modes depending on what was being watched and that ain't happening Only Dad gets to touch the xbr remote.

I wish I didn't have to worry about SD at all. That would make owning this set much more enjoyable to calibrate and watch.
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post #459 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Brandon or anybody else using the Motorola 3416 STB or the like,

Have you played with the 3416 STB output resolution? If you're using HDMI or Component connections to the xbr, you can enter "user settings" by powering OFF the STB and then pressing "Menu" on either the remote or button on the front of the STB.

From here, you can specify the output resolution for SD 4:3 content. By default, the STB passes a non-upconverted 480i signal to the TV.

Choices are:

1) 480i - Default. No upconversion is performed
2) 480p - STB upconverts SD signal to 480p
3) OFF - STB upconverts to 1080i with black bars on the sides
4) Stretch - STB upconverts to 1080i with the picture stretched to fit 16:9

Of course, the xbr will automatically upconvert any signal to it's native 1080p, but I'm wondering if anyone has used the STB to upconvert to 1080i and what kind of job you think the STB does with the SD upconvert signal.

I've tried them all and believe it or not, I think the best SD picture I get is setting the STB to upconvert to 480p and then let the xbr handle the rest. I know that typically STB's don't do as good of a job as the xbr when it comes to upconverting. Just wondering what others may have noticed??

I like the 480p from my Moto STB best also.

Thank you very much

Fury
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post #460 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

The only problem with Auto2 is that it deactivates ME. So if you like to watch flim with ME then you can't use Auto2.

Auto1 with ME off should be the same thing as Auto2 with ME on, correct? Auto1 should also deactive Cinemotion for non-film based content. Therefore Auto1 with ME on standard should be the prefered setting for cable STB's. If that's producing an unatural picture then turn off ME. *confused*

I don't believe Auto1 and Auto2 are the same however, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples. I beleive they're two fairly different agorithms...
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post #461 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God_TM View Post

I don't believe Auto1 and Auto2 are the same however, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples. I beleive they're two fairly different agorithms...

This is where I am right now with Cinemotion:

First, quoting from the xbr user's manual (sony obviously went to some effort to explain it in the manual, so for agrument's sake, let's assume the following is correct):

"Select Auto1 or Auto2 to automatically detect film content and apply a reverse 3-2 pulldown process. Moving pictures will appear cleaner and more natural looking. Select Off to disable the detection".

So, Cinemotion is there to automatically detect the presence of "film content" (24p???). When detected, the TV will apply a reverse 3-2 pulldown (meaning that deinterlacing is performed to remove the extra inserted frames to get back to 24p or the original frames???). I think this is what Sony has been advertising as their "24p True Cinema" technology.

So, Sony has given the end user (us) two algorithms for true cinema 24p: Auto1 and Auto2. The difference? Auto1 is used in conjuction with Motionflow to give the user greater control over the images we see. If it's an action-packed film with lots of fast-moving scenes (e.g. Matrix, Tokyo Drift, Spiderman, etc.), use Auto1 and adjust Motion Enhancer (ME) according to your likes. If you're watching low-action films such as Beaches, chick flicks, etc. use Auto2, which disables ME completely and applies an algorithm best suited for that content (low action).

So far, I get it.

What I find confusing is what does Cinemotion do to non film-based content (i.e. SD, upconverted HD, etc.)?? It's just my opinion, but where Sony has failed to be explicit, is defining what some of these settings do with different input sources. That's why when folks post their calibration settings, I think it's very important to specify on what source they calibrated it on.

It's obvious to me that the Cinemotion/MotionFlow settings affect SD and 1080i content because I can see the effects on screen. But Sony doesn't say much, if anything, about that in their doc. This is where I'm hung up.

If Cinemotion is there examining the incoming source looking for "film based" content, what is it doing to the picture the rest of the time while it isn't detecting film based content and what effect does it have on PQ???

Please correct me where I'm wrong.
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post #462 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 12:08 PM
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Cinemotion Auto 1 and Auto 2 were also available in the last generation of XBR's, but they weren't 24P capable. So I'm not sure if you're correct in making the connection of cinemotion to 24P.

EDIT: After looking at the operation manual for the xbr2 again, it appears the available options are Off or Auto. Which means the "extra" option on the xbr 4/5 series may be dealing with the 24p. But the explanation for cinemotion in the 2/3 series op manual is practically verbatim to the current model explanation, with the exception of the second processing mode option.
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post #463 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schlick View Post

Cinemotion Auto 1 and Auto 2 were also available in the last generation of XBR's, but they weren't 24P capable. So I'm not sure if you're correct in making the connection of cinemotion to 24P.

EDIT: After looking at the operation manual for the xbr2 again, it appears the available options are Off or Auto. Which means the "extra" option on the xbr 4/5 series may be dealing with the 24p. But the explanation for cinemotion in the 2/3 series op manual is practically verbatim to the current model explanation, with the exception of the second processing mode option.

Also, in the xbr2/3 manuals under Cinemotion it says that: "Cinemotion is only available when you are watching 480i sources, except when the Freeze feature is in use".

Ugggghhhh.....
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post #464 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

So, Sony has given the end user (us) two algorithms for true cinema 24p: Auto1 and Auto2. The difference? Auto1 is used in conjuction with Motionflow

Multiple modes like that are quite common, so the connection with MotionFlow may not be the only factor. For example, Oppo recommends "Video2" mode for PAL sources, because that mode is biased towards auto-detecting the 2:2 sequences found in PAL (50Hz) DVDs and some video-originated material such as Friends. Often manufacturers offer multiple modes because the encoding on different DVDs is messed up in different ways, so no one algorithm will give good results for every DVD. IOW, there is no one-size-fits-all setting; the idea is simply that you should switch algorithms if you see problems with judder, etc., in the hopes of getting a better result for the specific DVD you are watching at that time.
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post #465 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 12:28 PM
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It never ends does it???
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post #466 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

...what does Cinemotion do to non film-based content (i.e. SD, upconverted HD, etc.)??

I ran the HQV BD disc at 1080i to try and sort some of this out. I may have seen some interesting things with the film res. test on Auto1 vs Auto2, but am still working to sort them out and will report on them another time. I'm looking for an unambiguous test to verify the Cinemotion behaviour.

Running the Video Resolution Test with all permutations of CM, ME, and DRC, I found no apparent effect from changing CM or ME when the DRC was off. I need more work on the DRC differences.

Pete
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post #467 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

What size is your xbr panel?

What model of Comcast STB are you using and are you using it to upconvert to 1080i to the xbr?



My experience is that DRC distorts SD broadcasts whether upconverted to 1080i from the STB or not.



I have the 52" and I continue to struggle to find balance between SD and HD with all these settings. True it can help true HD signals, but the drawback for me is that many of these settings adverely affects SD. I suppose I could use "Custom" picture mode for true HD cable settings and "Standard" picture mode for SD content, but that would mean that my wife and boys would have to switch picture modes depending on what was being watched and that ain't happening Only Dad gets to touch the xbr remote.

I wish I didn't have to worry about SD at all. That would make owning this set much more enjoyable to calibrate and watch.

I own the 46" XBR4 and i am feeding it through HDMI cables, supplied by Comcast, from my Motorola/Comcast HD/DVR STB "DCT6412 III." (They are not that great of cables, the $80 cables I have are currently wired to and from my ps3) The only 1080i signals that i do receive our the 8+ channels that are provided by Comcast HD, the rest are either digital or standard definition. To my knowledge i dont believe that this cable box does up conversion. I was informed by Comcast that there is a newer model of this hd/dvr box but i am not to sure if it will have the ability to up convert sd or digital signals to 1080i definition.

"Drc mode" does in away distort the picture but it also enhances the definition, try flipping back and forth between drc "high" and "off" and see how it affects the picture; you just have to strike the right balance between "DRC" and "Detail enhancer" because they are almost similar function. I think Mode 1 is for 7ft or closer viewing distance and mode 2 is 8ft and beyond.

When trying to calibrate your picture try playing around with "drc", "Detail "Enhancer", and "Sharpness" first, these modes will be similar to the contour of a a line. Afterwards go back in and play with the "Noise reduction" and "Mpeg" and "Advance C.E." seeing that these modes will blend the picture similar to that of an eraser.

Again, i am not a professional if anything i am just a sharpjunkie like "sharpjunkie" and i calibrate my tv the way i see fit.

Well try these settings....they are ok, to me, for both SD and 1080i signals

Picture Mode: Costume
Backlight: 6
Picture: 60
Brightness: 63
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: 73
Noise reduction: low
MPEG noise reduction: low
DRC mode: Mode 1
DRC Pallet: 65/30

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: low
Advanced C.E: low
Gamma: med
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: low
Edge enhancer: off

enjoy
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post #468 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 05:34 PM
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Hey all, I'm a long time reader/first time poster in the Sony XBR4 category, First of all, I'm very impressed with the knowledge of the AVS members, I recently joined the XBR4 Family and am loving the picture quality...However i noticed when the screen is totally black (on with no picture) that there appears to be about 3 or 4 spots in the size of 5-6 inches lighter than surrounding area, i guess i will call it clouding or backlight leaking...I'm not an expert on backlighting but it seems that it's not at the edges but pretty much spread around the screen...

Could this be a cause of transporting or will this go away with a certain amount of hours break-in???

It can not be seen when picture is up only when screen is solid black...

If this is a Sony issue would i have to ship it back to Sony or does Sony have an in-home warrenty program...

Thank you so much for any inputs...
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post #469 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

This is where I am right now with Cinemotion:

First, quoting from the xbr user's manual (sony obviously went to some effort to explain it in the manual, so for agrument's sake, let's assume the following is correct):

"Select Auto1 or Auto2 to automatically detect film content and apply a reverse 3-2 pulldown process. Moving pictures will appear cleaner and more natural looking. Select Off to disable the detection".

So, Cinemotion is there to automatically detect the presence of "film content" (24p???). When detected, the TV will apply a reverse 3-2 pulldown (meaning that deinterlacing is performed to remove the extra inserted frames to get back to 24p or the original frames???). I think this is what Sony has been advertising as their "24p True Cinema" technology.

So, Sony has given the end user (us) two algorithms for true cinema 24p: Auto1 and Auto2. The difference? Auto1 is used in conjuction with Motionflow to give the user greater control over the images we see. If it's an action-packed film with lots of fast-moving scenes (e.g. Matrix, Tokyo Drift, Spiderman, etc.), use Auto1 and adjust Motion Enhancer (ME) according to your likes. If you're watching low-action films such as Beaches, chick flicks, etc. use Auto2, which disables ME completely and applies an algorithm best suited for that content (low action).

So far, I get it.

What I find confusing is what does Cinemotion do to non film-based content (i.e. SD, upconverted HD, etc.)?? It's just my opinion, but where Sony has failed to be explicit, is defining what some of these settings do with different input sources. That's why when folks post their calibration settings, I think it's very important to specify on what source they calibrated it on.

It's obvious to me that the Cinemotion/MotionFlow settings affect SD and 1080i content because I can see the effects on screen. But Sony doesn't say much, if anything, about that in their doc. This is where I'm hung up.

If Cinemotion is there examining the incoming source looking for "film based" content, what is it doing to the picture the rest of the time while it isn't detecting film based content and what effect does it have on PQ???

Please correct me where I'm wrong.

You have some interesting theories but the bottom line is that we really don't know the difference between Cinemotion Auto 1 & 2 other then that Auto 2 disables ME. I used to have a 52XBR2 and the fact that you bring up, that with the XBR2 Cinemotion only effected 480i sources really confuses the matter. With the XBR2 Cinemotion wasn't something I concerned myself with but with the XBR4 I believe that the name carried over but other then that it's a completely different thing.

Also your mention of the SD picture looking better when the STB is set to output only 480p reminds me that I also though the same thing before I set the STB to pass through 480i. I'm going to reset the STB to 480p and compare.

Just a general coment, in my opinon DRC adds noise to the picture but it does make the image itself clearer in 1080i/720p or SD. DRC off cuts the noise/distortion but then the picture get a slightly blurred look to it. (1080p sources are very sharp and DRC isn't available or needed)

52XBR4
55HX929
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post #470 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

You have some interesting theories but the bottom line is that we really don't know the difference between Cinemotion Auto 1 & 2 other then that Auto 2 disables ME. I used to have a 52XBR2 and the fact that you bring up, that with the XBR2 Cinemotion only effected 480i sources really confuses the matter. With the XBR2 Cinemotion wasn't something I concerned myself with but with the XBR4 I believe that the name carried over but other then that it's a completely different thing.

Also your mention of the SD picture looking better when the STB is set to output only 480p reminds me that I also though the same thing before I set the STB to pass through 480i. I'm going to reset the STB to 480p and compare.

Just a general coment, in my opinon DRC adds noise to the picture but it does make the image itself clearer in 1080i/720p or SD. DRC off cuts the noise/distortion but then the picture get a slightly blurred look to it. (1080p sources are very sharp and DRC isn't available or needed)

Thanks, E.

Tonight I was watching the Ky vs. S.C. football game on ESPN HD and fooling around with DRC from about 3 feet away.

Whenever I enabled Mode1 on DRC, it introduced a weird, snowy effect inside the white pants of the players, but only when the camera shot was far away from the field; like when they would show the entire offensive/defensive alignments right before the ball was snapped.

Camera shots up close to people were fine. It seems the farther away the camera shot gets, the more detail is lost and the snowy effect came in. It also gave a halo effect around the entire image of the players. I tried playing with Noise, Edge Enh., Detail Enh., Cinemotion, etc. and nothing seemed to get rid of it, except turning DRC Off.

Maybe I should just lay the remote down and forget about it for a while. Stuff like this bugs me though......
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post #471 of 5495 Old 10-04-2007, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cambotwist View Post

I own the 46" XBR4 and i am feeding it through HDMI cables, supplied by Comcast, from my Motorola/Comcast HD/DVR STB "DCT6412 III." (They are not that great of cables, the $80 cables I have are currently wired to and from my ps3) The only 1080i signals that i do receive our the 8+ channels that are provided by Comcast HD, the rest are either digital or standard definition. To my knowledge i dont believe that this cable box does up conversion. I was informed by Comcast that there is a newer model of this hd/dvr box but i am not to sure if it will have the ability to up convert sd or digital signals to 1080i definition.

"Drc mode" does in away distort the picture but it also enhances the definition, try flipping back and forth between drc "high" and "off" and see how it affects the picture; you just have to strike the right balance between "DRC" and "Detail enhancer" because they are almost similar function. I think Mode 1 is for 7ft or closer viewing distance and mode 2 is 8ft and beyond.

When trying to calibrate your picture try playing around with "drc", "Detail "Enhancer", and "Sharpness" first, these modes will be similar to the contour of a a line. Afterwards go back in and play with the "Noise reduction" and "Mpeg" and "Advance C.E." seeing that these modes will blend the picture similar to that of an eraser.

Again, i am not a professional if anything i am just a sharpjunkie like "sharpjunkie" and i calibrate my tv the way i see fit.

Well try these settings....they are ok, to me, for both SD and 1080i signals

Picture Mode: Costume
Backlight: 6
Picture: 60
Brightness: 63
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: 73
Noise reduction: low
MPEG noise reduction: low
DRC mode: Mode 1
DRC Pallet: 65/30

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: low
Advanced C.E: low
Gamma: med
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: low
Edge enhancer: off

enjoy

Thanks, cambotwist.

With the exception of Edge Enhancer, my settings were pretty darned close to yours, minus the DRC.

Yeah, I don't know how many hours I've spent in front of the TV with all sorts of settins toggling between the high setting and the off setting to see what difference that setting makes. I never have been about to get DRC to work for me.

Tonight I was watching the KY-S.C. football game and from 3' away DRC gave the white pants a strange snowy cast (similar to noise) with halos around all the objects. However, with close-up shots of people, etc., the effect went away. It's like the farther away the camera shot was, the worse the detail got. I played with Noise Red., MPEG, Detail Enh., Edge Enh., etc. and nothing got rid of it except turning DRC off. Of course, the DRC problem wasn't as noticable from regular viewing distance, but I figure if the PQ wasn't good from 3', then it wasn't it's best from 10'.

Thanks for posting your settings and helping out.
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post #472 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Thanks, E.

Tonight I was watching the Ky vs. S.C. football game on ESPN HD and fooling around with DRC from about 3 feet away.

Whenever I enabled Mode1 on DRC, it introduced a weird, snowy effect inside the white pants of the players, but only when the camera shot was far away from the field; like when they would show the entire offensive/defensive alignments right before the ball was snapped.

Camera shots up close to people were fine. It seems the farther away the camera shot gets, the more detail is lost and the snowy effect came in. It also gave a halo effect around the entire image of the players. I tried playing with Noise, Edge Enh., Detail Enh., Cinemotion, etc. and nothing seemed to get rid of it, except turning DRC Off.

Maybe I should just lay the remote down and forget about it for a while. Stuff like this bugs me though......

I like to watch sports also and one thing I've noticed is that not all HD sports broadcasts are created equal. For example a Yankees game on YES HD at Yankee stadium looks amazing, however a Yankess game on YES HD from certain other stadiums doesn't look as good. To me baseball on ESPN HD is also inferior to YES HD at Yankee stadium. I'm guessing that YES HD has really good equipment and they also have good cameras and whatnot at Yankee stadium but other teams in areas where attendence isn't as good has cheaper equipment. (Don't even get me started on TNTHD, horrible)

Regarding NFL in HD, I've noticed the same thing. Games covered on certain channels in certain stadiums are noticeably better then others. Like you, I've experienced frustration with the scenes just before the snap when the camera pulls back and you see the whole offense and defense. The image almost gets slightly blurry and the detail of the players get lost a bit. I'm wondering if this is just a limitation of the camera or recording equipment, because in close ups the image will be crystal clear and sharp. I've also noticed that certain cameras in the stadium will be very grainy and have lots of noise, and then they switch to another camera and it clears up again.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out, along with you is exactly what is the fault of the TV or my settings and what is the fault of the source. With more time and familiarity with the TV I think this will get easier.

DRC has also been something on my mind because most people here don't like it because it doesn't display as much resolution and introduces noise/artifacts to the picture. However, I still maintain that in a way it makes the images looks clear, albeit along with some artifacts. When I turn DRC off the noise goes away however the image gets this slighly smeared look to it almost like the TV has just a little bit too much anti-aliasing going on. People who watch the TV and aren't into the "tech" aspect of it like we are seem to prefer DRC on and don't even notice the noise/artifacts. Too bad we don't just get every channel in 1080p and then we wouldn't have to worry about DRC, SD & Sharpness!

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post #474 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 07:22 AM
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Hey everyone,
Full on Noob here. I just got my 46 XBR5 yesterday and had a couple of questions. First off I'm running just a Directv SD right now, should be getting HD next week. Anyway last night I was watching a show with my wife and we noticed that some times the skin on some of the people would look as if they had a sunburn. The flesh tones would look as if they were turning red, what settings would I need to change to reduce this? Other question is I have the Wide Mode set to normal right now, because when I have it set on full it just does not look very good. Is this because of the SD signal, will I be able to utilize the Full mode once I get HD? Sorry if these questions suck, like I said I'm a total rookie, this is my 1st post. Thanks.
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post #475 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bigeyedfi5h View Post

Hey everyone,
Full on Noob here. I just got my 46 XBR5 yesterday and had a couple of questions. First off I'm running just a Directv SD right now, should be getting HD next week. Anyway last night I was watching a show with my wife and we noticed that some times the skin on some of the people would look as if they had a sunburn. The flesh tones would look as if they were turning red, what settings would I need to change to reduce this? Other question is I have the Wide Mode set to normal right now, because when I have it set on full it just does not look very good. Is this because of the SD signal, will I be able to utilize the Full mode once I get HD? Sorry if these questions suck, like I said I'm a total rookie, this is my 1st post. Thanks.

Dialing back overall color control, check to see if your color space option (in the advanced setting portion of the menu) is in wide or standard, if in wide change it to standard and see how flesh tones look then. Also, the live color option seems to emphasize reds and greens, so you might want to see if it's set to low, medium, or high and change it accordingly. Normal is probably the best screen size option when watching SD, and full will probably your preferred viewing option with HD as it looks great.

Hope this helps.
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post #476 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 08:00 AM
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Just wondering if there is an overall consensus on what settings everyone is using. Dont think this has been brought up yet. Me personally, I am using gordong11's settings (post #52). I have tried everyone else's and in my opinion his gives the most "POP". I didn't like cnet's settings at all.


Here is a link to gordong11's settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11496397
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post #477 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

Just wondering if there is an overall consensus on what settings everyone is using. Dont think this has been brought up yet. Me personally, I am using gordong11's settings (post #52). I have tried everyone else's and in my opinion his gives the most "POP". I didn't like cnet's settings at all.


Here is a link to gordong11's settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11496397

I was just about to post the same question! I too am using gordong11's settings and personally like them. Any others worth considering?
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post #478 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mplsmpls1 View Post

I was just about to post the same question! I too am using gordong11's settings and personally like them. Any others worth considering?

I am using MuscleRunts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post11796079


I liked the skin tone better. I had been using gordongs but it looked a little "blue" on my 46XBR4.

The Offcie last night on 1080i NBC Clear QAM was right on. I have tweaked the advanced settings a little bit and changed around the DRC pallette, but the main page and main settings are the same.
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post #479 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 09:57 AM
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By film-based content, do you mean 24p as opposed to 50p/60p? The reason I ask is because Sony uses that phrase in their manuals and documentation quite a bit in reference to the xbr's configuration settings (see Cinemotion, etc.).

When I say film-based content I'm mostly referring to movies. That's why I used HBO HD as an example, because the very first day I got the tv I tuned into HBO HD and some movie with Sandra Bullock was playing, and when I put it on full pixel there was more information that showed up. TV shows can either be recorded on film or video, and often are converted to 60fps before they are broadcast. I really am not sure what is the most common, but when I saw film-based, what I really meant to say was movie content broadcast on TV channels.

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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Brandon or anybody else using the Motorola 3416 STB or the like,

Have you played with the 3416 STB output resolution?

I played around with them a few weeks ago and again a couple days ago. I used to have the 4:3 override option set to off, but I set it to 480i to allow the XBR4 (and soon a 3808ci Denon) to do all of the upconversion. To be honest I haven't noticed a huge difference. I will try 480p and see if I think it looks better instead.

The only real difference is that now when you switch from an HD channel to a SD channel there is a split second longer of tuning into the channel, because the STB is sending a different resolution to the TV. So for a split second you can see a lil scrambling take place on screen and then it tunes in. When 4:3 override is set to "off" this doesn't happen because it is always sending the same resolution.

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The Offcie last night on 1080i NBC...

"I'd like to see a website deliver a giftbasket to somebody's office!"



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post #480 of 5495 Old 10-05-2007, 02:12 PM
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I played around with them a few weeks ago and again a couple days ago. I used to have the 4:3 override option set to off, but I set it to 480i to allow the XBR4 (and soon a 3808ci Denon) to do all of the upconversion. To be honest I haven't noticed a huge difference. I will try 480p and see if I think it looks better instead.

Last night I set my output res to OFF as well and liked it fine, but what I ended up NOT liking is since the SD signals are now coming in as 1080i, I lose the 4:3 default screen setting (I like FULL) on the wide menu setting on the xbr. Since both HD and SD are now coming in at 1080i, all screen sizes default to the WIDE setting which is Full and I get the black bars on the sides on all SD channels. IOW, both SD and HD must now use the WIDE default setting and to get rid of the side bars, I have to watch everything on HD and SD on one setting like WIDE ZOOM and I want Full.

For now, I've gone back to 480p output res from the STB. If the 3416 doesn't do a very good job of upconverting, I'm ok with letting the xbr do it, but I have no way of knowing how well the STB is doing upconverting except by eye-balling it.

Quote:


The only real difference is that now when you switch from an HD channel to a SD channel there is a split second longer of tuning into the channel, because the STB is sending a different resolution to the TV. So for a split second you can see a lil scrambling take place on screen and then it tunes in. When 4:3 override is set to "off" this doesn't happen because it is always sending the same resolution.

Yep, I noticed that too.
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