Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 12:01 PM
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Guys,

I don't know if you've been following the discussion on the WB settings over in the owner's thread, so I thought I would post the findings here since that's really where they belong.

Yesterday, myself and another poster here reported losing WB settings between different picture_mode settings (i.e. Cinema, Standard and Custom). That is, I would apply changes to my WB settings in Custom mode, then noticed that they had been replicated over in Cinema and Standard. The previous settings I had in Cinema and Standard were lost. All of this is on the same input, HDMI 1.

Bricklayerharp tested it on his set and jrnewquist found what was causing the problem. The illusion regarding WB settings is that you have an independent WB setting for each picture_mode. This appears to be incorrect. These xbrs, in fact, have a WB setting for each color_temp. IOW, if you make your settings in Custom picture mode and the color_temp is Warm_2, then any other picture mode you use that specifies Warm_2 will share the same WB settings as Custom picture mode.

For example, if you setup Custom picture_mode to use a Warm_2 color temp and then setup Cinema and specify Warm_2 there as well, Cinema mode will use the WB settings you specified for Custom because they both share the Warm_2 setting.

If folks already knew this, I apologize. I thought it would be worthwhile to share because, speaking for myself, I thought I had WB settings for each independent picture mode. That's not the case.
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post #992 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 12:08 PM
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Fantastic information on WB settings Randy, thanks. And big kudos to jrnewquist for the Google spreadsheet.
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post #993 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

Now that it's done I must admit that I do like it. Because of prior experiences I wasn't too enthusiastic about calibration but this worked out for the better. Working in the industry I've seen a lot of displays, this is one of the good ones .

10 1/2 Feet from Display

Power Save Mode: Off

HDMI Sources

Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 3
Picture: 88
Brightness: 49
Color: 62
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off - 1080p / Low - Cable
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -3
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Off / Low (Personal Preference)
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off with 1080p24. Standard for 1080p60 (Personal preference) - Mines is off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full Pixel

Component Video Sources

Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 3
Picture: 85
Brightness: 37
Color: 52
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off - 1080p / Low - Cable
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -2
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Off / Low (Personal Preference)
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off / Standard (Personal preference) - Mines is off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full

Tell me what you think.

Took them 2 hours

Awesome post!

I will try this tonight, Thanks for posting your settings!

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post #994 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teisco View Post

Has anyone gone from a Sharp Aquos 52 to the new xbr4 or 5? I have the Aquos and thinking of trading up if there is a dramatic dif in pic.

I had the Sharp 46" D92U, and now have the 46" XBR5. The Sony is a better set then the Sharp.

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post #995 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Guys,

I don't know if you've been following the discussion on the WB settings over in the owner's thread, so I thought I would post the findings here since that's really where they belong.

Yesterday, myself and another poster here reported losing WB settings between different picture_mode settings (i.e. Cinema, Standard and Custom). That is, I would apply changes to my WB settings in Custom mode, then noticed that they had been replicated over in Cinema and Standard. The previous settings I had in Cinema and Standard were lost. All of this is on the same input, HDMI 1.

Bricklayerharp tested it on his set and jrnewquist found what was causing the problem. The illusion regarding WB settings is that you have an independent WB setting for each picture_mode. This appears to be incorrect. These xbrs, in fact, have a WB setting for each color_temp. IOW, if you make your settings in Custom picture mode and the color_temp is Warm_2, then any other picture mode you use that specifies Warm_2 will share the same WB settings as Custom picture mode.

For example, if you setup Custom picture_mode to use a Warm_2 color temp and then setup Cinema and specify Warm_2 there as well, Cinema mode will use the WB settings you specified for Custom because they both share the Warm_2 setting.

If folks already knew this, I apologize. I thought it would be worthwhile to share because, speaking for myself, I thought I had WB settings for each independent picture mode. That's not the case.

I did notice this but did not know what the issue was. Thanks.
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post #996 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javatango View Post

Fantastic information on WB settings Randy, thanks. And big kudos to jrnewquist for the Google spreadsheet.

No probs, Java.

Now I have to figure out....If I have two calibrations that call for Warm2, can I use Warm1 for one of them and compensate elsewhere in the settings to make up the difference. To me there's a big difference in each step from Cool->Neutral->Warm1->Warm2.

I'd like to have whatever the Sony engineers were smoking when they came up with this one.....
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post #997 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 01:58 PM
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Just a couple of things all.....I have the 46" Xbr4 and would like to know what the preferred settings are for the Wii. The other question I have pertains to the cloudiness I got when watching the football game last weekend. In the middle of my screen I could see a 1' X 4" vertical smudge or cloud which blurred the middle of the screen slightly. This was not constant. Any suggestions? Thanx
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post #998 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 02:49 PM
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Mr pasta love your setting would you use them also for hd dvd?
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post #999 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 03:47 PM
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Does anybody know why when I turn on game mode, the picture mode switches from standard to custom? Custom is then grayed out so that it cant be switched back to standard with game mode enabled. Has anyone else experienced this
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post #1000 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

No probs, Java.

Now I have to figure out....If I have two calibrations that call for Warm2, can I use Warm1 for one of them and compensate elsewhere in the settings to make up the difference. To me there's a big difference in each step from Cool->Neutral->Warm1->Warm2.

I'd like to have whatever the Sony engineers were smoking when they came up with this one.....

haha Randy I agree it's not intuitive at all. From the menu, one would think differently.

One note, if anyone wants to try 2 diff settings that use say "warm2", it's probably easiest to note what the WB settings are, then enter those to "go back and forth" to compare. Kindof a pia, but hey, we're stuck...

Lastly, I was fiddlin with cinema settings, which I forgot are "warm2" and selected "set to default" on the WB. Well my custom was MrLogs settings (also warm2) and wow, really made the colors look better to my eye, after switching back to custom (the default on cinema for wb is to set it all to "0").

regards,
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post #1001 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 05:57 PM
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redst1300, what does WB stand for
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post #1002 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 06:07 PM
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White Balance

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #1003 of 5495 Old 11-13-2007, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Awesome work. Thanks for taking the time to do that. That sorta confirms what I've been thinking: I'm the only one who uses Warm1 color temperature. Has anybody else tried it and not liked it for whatever reason?

Brandon

Hey Brandon, I use warm1 as well. I love it personally, and like a wise man said a few posts back as long as you like it is all that matters. Cool seems a little too blue for my tastes and warm 2 a little too red. Of course, all the other settings in conjunction make a difference.
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post #1004 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 05:13 AM
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Most of what I watch is HD via DirecTV on a 52XBR4. I tried some of the settings on this thread and had mixed results. I like a nice crisp picture that is not overly smooth like film. I want natural colors with little or no over saturation. Please let me know if you try these settings and if you modified anything. I was very impressed with the PQ last night after I did this. I have to say the quality was better than what I could get on my XBR3. Here is what I came up with for my H20 receiver:

Custom: DirecTV H20 via HDMI



Backlight: 5
Picture: 76
Brightness: 52
Color: 55
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 30
Noise Reduction: low
MPEG Noise Reduction: off
DRC Mode: 1 : Pallett 40/60
Black Corrector: off
Advanced C.E.: low
Gama: low
Clear White: off
Color Space: wide
Live Color: Low
White Balance
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0
Detail Enhancer: off
Edge Enhancer: off
Motionflow: Standard
Cinemotion: Auto2

Nothing is perfect if you look hard enough.
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post #1005 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzymyman View Post

Just a couple of things all.....I have the 46" Xbr4 and would like to know what the preferred settings are for the Wii. The other question I have pertains to the cloudiness I got when watching the football game last weekend. In the middle of my screen I could see a 1' X 4" vertical smudge or cloud which blurred the middle of the screen slightly. This was not constant. Any suggestions? Thanx

still waiting
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post #1006 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzymyman View Post

still waiting

I just performed a search on this thread for "wii" and got several hits for calibration.

As for the football game, were you watching SD or HD and on what network? Was the smear on the screen noticable on other channels. Was it raining at the football game? Was the smear noticable from only one particluar stationary camera or all cameras in the stadium? Was it a hand-held camera?

I watch a bunch of football on tv. A bit more info will help.
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post #1007 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 08:05 AM
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Hello: Been reading posts and have really benefited from all of the wonderful knowledge on this site. Thank you all. Hope I’m posting this question in the right area. I was wondering if some one could tell me why my SD reception is noticeably better (sharper and better color) when I tune to digital channel on my 52XBR4 directly (ESPN is 90.7 in my area) than when I bring the same signal into my TV through component jacks from my STB. Is there an up converting that’s happening with coax directly into back of xbr4 that does not happen with component cables, or is my Motorola STB just “not that good”? Not huge problem, but I really knowing where my channels are, and I like the TV guide features of my STB. Issue is not noticeable at all with HD signals. Thanks again and in advance.
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post #1008 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue63 View Post

Most of what I watch is HD via DirecTV on a 52XBR4. I tried some of the settings on this thread and had mixed results. I like a nice crisp picture that is not overly smooth like film. I want natural colors with little or no over saturation. Please let me know if you try these settings and if you modified anything. I was very impressed with the PQ last night after I did this. I have to say the quality was better than what I could get on my XBR3. Here is what I came up with for my H20 receiver:

Custom: DirecTV H20 via HDMI



Backlight: 5
Picture: 76
Brightness: 52
Color: 55
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 30
Noise Reduction: low
MPEG Noise Reduction: off
DRC Mode: 1 : Pallett 40/60
Black Corrector: off
Advanced C.E.: low
Gama: low
Clear White: off
Color Space: wide
Live Color: Low
White Balance
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0
Detail Enhancer: off
Edge Enhancer: off
Motionflow: Standard
Cinemotion: Auto2

These settings are virtually identical to mine. I would point out though, that keeping Cinemotion set to Auto2 disables Motionflow.

A_C

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post #1009 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamjat View Post

Hello: Been reading posts and have really benefited from all of the wonderful knowledge on this site. Thank you all. Hope I'm posting this question in the right area. I was wondering if some one could tell me why my SD reception is noticeably better (sharper and better color) when I tune to digital channel on my 52XBR4 directly (ESPN is 90.7 in my area) than when I bring the same signal into my TV through component jacks from my STB. Is there an up converting that's happening with coax directly into back of xbr4 that does not happen with component cables, or is my Motorola STB just not that good? Not huge problem, but I really knowing where my channels are, and I like the TV guide features of my STB. Issue is not noticeable at all with HD signals. Thanks again and in advance.

Set your STB to allow all resolutions through and pass-through whatever resolution it's being fed. With me doing this my channels looks better through the STB rather than Intergrated Tuner.

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post #1010 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 10:04 AM
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Ok I've read through this and the owners thread. Let's see if my understanding of 1080p/24 with 5:5 is correct.

Pulled from an OldPete post, not sure of it's origins.

Cinemotion

AUTO1: Has film compensation turned ON and works in conjunction with the Motion Enhancer setting. The CineMotion effect changes depending upon the setting of the Motion Enhancer.

AUTO2: Has film compensation turned ON and turns OFF the Motion Enhancer setting.

So is "film compensation" 3:2 pulldown, and if so does turning it off provide for 5:5?

Is ME the on switch for 120 Hz, or is it simply that the TV is always 120 Hz and ME is just the motion corrector?

I'm currently under the assumtion that for 1080p/24 source cinemotion does detection and does not apply 3:2 pulldown. And, that ME is not a switch for 120 Hz, but simple a control for the the level of enhancment in the processing.

Anyways, I know this has been discussed countless times, but I just can't seem to put my fingers on a straight answer. Hopefully someone can just say to me, "Hey dumba**, 3:2 is x setting, and 5:5 is y setting." Somehow I doubt it's going to be that simple.
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post #1011 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

Set your STB to allow all resolutions through and pass-through whatever resolution it's being fed. With me doing this my channels looks better through the STB rather than Intergrated Tuner.

Thank you very much for quick reply. I will see if it's an option and try it tonight. will post answer tomorrow.
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post #1012 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamjat View Post

Thank you very much for quick reply. I will see if it's an option and try it tonight. will post answer tomorrow.

I don't know which STB you have. I have the Motorola 3416 and the default for SD/4:3 output from the box is 480i. You have choices of 480i (default), 480p, 1080i Stretch, and 1080i letter box.

To get to the settings menu, turn OFF the STB, then press "MENU" on the remote and you're in. Once you've made your changes, hit the power button on the STB remote twice (once to get out of settings mode and once to turn the STB back on) and you're back in business.
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post #1013 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 11:59 AM
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Agent_C:

Does that mean I'm turning off the 120 Hz refresh rate when in Auto 2 mode? The manual doesn't say that. To be honest I haven't tried Auto 1 yet. Is that what you use and if so what results have you noticed? I watch a lot of hockey and football so the 120 Hz is not something I want to bypass. I really like these settings. Thanks.

Nothing is perfect if you look hard enough.
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post #1014 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue63 View Post

Agent_C:

Does that mean I'm turning off the 120 Hz refresh rate when in Auto 2 mode? The manual doesn't say that. To be honest I haven't tried Auto 1 yet. Is that what you use and if so what results have you noticed? I watch a lot of hockey and football so the 120 Hz is not something I want to bypass. I really like these settings. Thanks.

Take a look at this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11791506

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post #1015 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciolist View Post

Ok I've read through this and the owners thread.

Excellent!

Quote:


Let's see if my understanding of 1080p/24 with 5:5 is correct.

Looks to me like you've got it.

Quote:


Is ME the on switch for 120 Hz, or is it simply that the TV is always 120 Hz and ME is just the motion corrector?

Quote:


I'm currently under the assumtion that for 1080p/24 source cinemotion does detection and does not apply 3:2 pulldown. And, that ME is not a switch for 120 Hz, but simple a control for the the level of enhancment in the processing.

Sounds right to me.

Quote:


Anyways, I know this has been discussed countless times, but I just can't seem to put my fingers on a straight answer. Hopefully someone can just say to me, "Hey dumba**, 3:2 is x setting, and 5:5 is y setting." Somehow I doubt it's going to be that simple.

I think that you can say:
5:5 for 108024p source is any setting
3:2 for film(or original 24fps source) at 60hz is Cinemotion Auto1 or Auto2.

Given the Fog of Forum and Sony's terse documentation, it hasn't been simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue63 View Post

Agent_C:
Does that mean I'm turning off the 120 Hz refresh rate when in Auto 2 mode? The manual doesn't say that. To be honest I haven't tried Auto 1 yet. Is that what you use and if so what results have you noticed? I watch a lot of hockey and football so the 120 Hz is not something I want to bypass. I really like these settings. Thanks.

The only thing you're turning off in Auto 2, I believe, is the motion enhancement for 24fps source material. The reason to use Auto 2 would be if you like the motion enhancement for sports, but not movies. This was my summary awhile back, which I think still may be correct:
  • You like M.E. for TV, but not for movies: Use Auto2. If you like the same M.E. setting for all TV, you don't have to change anything.
  • You like M.E. for movies: Use Auto1. If you don't like your movie M.E. settings for TV, then change the M.E. depending on what you're watching.

Finally, want to bring one of Brandon's comments back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

What gets lost in all this hubub about whether or not the Sony does 5:5 pulldown is that, if you like what you see then go for it. In theory, we all want the best possible picture. What some purists want is 24fps without interpolated frames. Motion Enhancer interpolates frames to give us better handling of motion. If you like the results Motion Enhancer brings then toy with Standard or High and go with which one you prefer. If you prefer the more traditional film-like look without 3:2 judder, then yes, for blu-ray ME can be set to off (or cinemotion=auto2 which disables it).

In the end, we as end users have the choice, which is why the discussion started in the first place. If we want 5:5 pulldown with no interpolation (and thus no possibility of motion artifacts) we have that option, and if we want frame interpolation (reducing motion blur and giving more of a video-like feel) then we have that option as well. That's the important thing.

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post #1016 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 04:00 PM
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Awesome post!

I will try this tonight, Thanks for posting your settings!

Never mind, I see you have a 50''.

I have the 40''.

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They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.
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post #1017 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 04:41 PM
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I'm not sure if this helps? It's from the December issue of Sound&Vision review of the
52XBR5.
Finally, there's the Motion Enhancer, with Standard, High, and Off settings. When off, the TV simply repeats each video frame in a 60-Hz HDTV signal to fill out its 120-Hz refresh rate. When switched on, the Motionflow processing detects whether a source is film- (24 fps) or video-based and interpolates the required new frames instead of just repeating existing ones.
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post #1018 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 06:39 PM
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Thanks OldPete!

It's good to have confirmation on this, now I can stop worrying about it and go and enjoy some movies.
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post #1019 of 5495 Old 11-14-2007, 07:45 PM
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After looking at everyone's settings, I just had some quick comments and questions.

The purpose of video calibration is to coax your television into reproducing an image as close as possible to the way the original source material was intended to be shown.

With that in mind, anyone serious about seeing the true quality of the original signal should never have Noise Reduction, DRC, Black Corrector, Advanced C.E., Gamma, Clear White, Detail Enhancer, and Edge Enhancer set to anything but OFF for any 720 or 1080 source.

Some of these settings can sometimes help a bad signal (SD cable/sat, antenna, etc.) appear better, and others are just clumsy shortcuts to a result that could better be achieved by properly adjusting other settings.

You may think they improve the signal, but doing things like sharpening edges by artificially accentuating color transitions and contrast is more damaging than it is helpful. To the untrained eye, bright, sharp colors look impressive. That's why these are set to VIVID by default. But as we all know, this is the most affected and inaccurate setting, and nobody should use it. Ever.

I'm not at home, but the settings on my 46" XBR4 are nearly identical to the ones lrstevens421 posted. I have noticed that the black level is much deeper on the PS3 system menus and games than it is on DVDs and Blu-Rays, so I set the brightness higher on the Cinema setting for that HDMI input and use it instead of the Custom when watching movies.

Also, no matter what I do I can't get the Nintendo Wii to look very good on this set. It looked way better on my old 36" Wega. Anybody had any luck? Too bad Nintendo didn't have the foresight to at least have the Wii output 720p...
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post #1020 of 5495 Old 11-15-2007, 12:09 AM
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Could these calibration settings be applied to the V-series/W-series Sony sets such as the 40V3000 and the 40W3000 or would the picture come out off?
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