Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 10:40 AM
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Schlick, thanks for posting that. I was wondering if there's a way to adjust the individual colors service menus (not the grayscale) because I would like to fiddle with the colors. But, I don't want to do that until I know which values to write down and adjust.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #1352 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schlick View Post

Here's an excerpt from the xbr 2/3 service manual, detailing how to navigate in the service menu. I'm ninety percent sure the same applies to to the 4/5 series. Use at your own risk/discretion.

Schlick

Have you been brave enough yet to play with the settings in the service menu? Looks like you might need a glossary of term or definitions to know what each attribute does...
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post #1353 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Have you been brave enough yet to play with the settings in the service menu? Looks like you might need a glossary of term or definitions to know what each attribute does...

Although it'd be perfectly in character for me to go in and play "hmmm, let's see what this does", to this point I haven't, because I'm a little scared of screwing something up.

On a side note, I had the tech back out for round two of board swap on my 46/4, (first was the input board, which didn't solve the green push), this time he swapped what he called the F1 board (although I'm not sure that's really how it's called out). the board in question is where the VP engine is located, the NVram where changes you make to the user menus are stored, and I believe the main microcontroller that runs the whole show. I'm pleased to report that I don't have to dial back green gain/bias to their maximum negative values to achieve a reasonable gray scale. With my previous basic settings (pic, bright, color, etc) and W/B controls at default, I have a reasonable facsimile of black at HD input resolutions. I maintain that it was a color decoder error which failed to change the standard from matrix 601 to 709 resulting in the wider gamut in 709 being displayed as mint/pine green blacks in the 0-10 ire range. The set was able to color decode a 480P input
correctly in my opinion, it was just any HD content where the error showed up. All other sources have a dramatic difference for the better in PQ. I must also note that the tech never once doubted me and continued to oreder parts based on what I told him I saw.

Later,
Schlick
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post #1354 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schlick View Post

Although it'd be perfectly in character for me to go in and play "hmmm, let's see what this does", to this point I haven't, because I'm a little scared of screwing something up.

On a side note, I had the tech back out for round two of board swap on my 46/4, (first was the input board, which didn't solve the green push), this time he swapped what he called the F1 board (although I'm not sure that's really how it's called out). the board in question is where the VP engine is located, the NVram where changes you make to the user menus are stored, and I believe the main microcontroller that runs the whole show. I'm pleased to report that I don't have to dial back green gain/bias to their maximum negative values to achieve a reasonable gray scale. With my previous basic settings (pic, bright, color, etc) and W/B controls at default, I have a reasonable facsimile of black at HD input resolutions. I maintain that it was a color decoder error which failed to change the standard from matrix 601 to 709 resulting in the wider gamut in 709 being displayed as mint/pine green blacks in the 0-10 ire range. The set was able to color decode a 480P input
correctly in my opinion, it was just any HD content where the error showed up. All other sources have a dramatic difference for the better in PQ. I must also note that the tech never once doubted me and continued to oreder parts based on what I told him I saw.

Later,
Schlick

That's great news! I'm glad that your troubles (at least for now ) are over.

Question remains for the rest of the population of xbr4/5 owners though....if the circuitry/firmware/software of the decoder was at fault, as you suspect, and these sets are massed produced, won't many others have the problems?

The possibility remains that they do, in fact, have the same problem too? If you look at the cal. thread, see how many settings specify the green dialed way back in the WB menu.

As an after-thought, do you think your problem resolution is what's causing the smear/blur that others are talking about when gaming? The smearing is, after all, realted to dark colors on light backgrounds.....
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post #1355 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 01:16 PM
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Hey guys... got my 52xbr4 and set all the calibration settings...
I was watching channel 7 abc here in chicago in HD and the picture would "pause" at times
what's the deal with that? would that be a signal issue or is there a prob
with the tv? I've never seen it do that on any other channels other than
abc in HD... I have Cinemotion set to Auto1 and Smooth motion set to Standard
when I turned the Cinemotion to off the "pausing" seemed to go away.
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post #1356 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 01:18 PM
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I think it is something with abchd, I noticed the pausing last week when watching grays anatomy. Only happened on that channel and hasnt happened anywhere else.
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post #1357 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 01:22 PM
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Thanks Slumpey326.. I was getting worried for a sec
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post #1358 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

That's great news! I'm glad that your troubles (at least for now ) are over.

Question remains for the rest of the population of xbr4/5 owners though....if the circuitry/firmware/software of the decoder was at fault, as you suspect, and these sets are massed produced, won't many others have the problems?

The possibility remains that they do, in fact, have the same problem too? If you look at the cal. thread, see how many settings specify the green dialed way back in the WB menu.

As an after-thought, do you think your problem resolution is what's causing the smear/blur that others are talking about when gaming? The smearing is, after all, realted to dark colors on light backgrounds.....

Based on the cal speadsheet that was compiled and provided to us a few pages back, the Sound and Vision lab test showing a green deficiency on hdmi inputs, and my own experience, I'm inclined to believe that there are a number of sets out there with less than stellar color decoding performance.

It would be a good test for the gamers that are experiencing problems, if the consoles allow it, to change the output resolution to 480p, or for that matter, hook it up with the plain Jane composite (yellow) rca connection.

PURELY SPECULATION HERE: There may be times when although the games are designed and programmed to be HD games, and are touted as such, that when the onscreen action gets intense, the advertised 1080p/60 might still be 1080p, but frame rate may be hampered due to the additional processor taxing of the gaming console. Just a thought.

New Hampshire is currently getting pummeled by the storm that just made it's way through the midwest. Gonna be a long drive home.......

Schlick
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post #1359 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamingarena View Post

Brandon please try to play GT5 Prologue on PS3 and try to drive the car from inside view, then drive closely behind the car in front of you and then break hard and observe the shadows under the car in front, you will see massive smearing from the tires from the front car, this is the easiest to test the smearing if you don't see the smearing then you are the one NEO!!!

Please who ever have XBR4 with PS3 and GT5 Prologue, if you guys can test the above suggestion and come back here and post your results, i'm really curious if there are any XBR4 that don't show smearing or it's only on the 46-52" screens, post your size too.

I spent several days trying to re-create your supposed smearing that occurs on every XBR4, and I was unable to do so.

I have been employed in the A/V business for the past 15 years, and I have owned my own A/V shop a few years back...and I have very good vision, so I think I'd be able to identify this if it in fact existed on my set.

Just don't see it, sorry.

But thanks for telling everyone here that it MUST be on their sets, because it is on yours, and that we just aren't as sophisticated as you because we can't see it. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot see, I can decide that for myself.

Also, your posts are in the wrong thread, this is a calibration thread, move your posts to the owners thread, or better yet, start your own thread and you can continue your own discussion.

(Also, you might want to learn to spell, you keep using the word "break" when you mean to use "brake" to describe applying the brakes on a car...)
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post #1360 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer01 View Post

I spent several days trying to re-create your supposed smearing that occurs on every XBR4, and I was unable to do so.

I have been employed in the A/V business for the past 15 years, and I have owned my own A/V shop a few years back...and I have very good vision, so I think I'd be able to identify this if it in fact existed on my set.

Just don't see it, sorry.

But thanks for telling everyone here that it MUST be on their sets, because it is on yours, and that we just aren't as sophisticated as you because we can't see it. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot see, I can decide that for myself.

Also, your posts are in the wrong thread, this is a calibration thread, move your posts to the owners thread, or better yet, start your own thread and you can continue your own discussion.

(Also, you might want to learn to spell, you keep using the word "break" when you mean to use "brake" to describe applying the brakes on a car...)

If we lived close to each other and I could see your set I'd bet $250.00 that I could reproduce it. Please keep in mind my set doesn't do it as bad as the Saints Row video, however the COD4 video is pretty close to what mine does. I've had two different panels in my set plus my girlfriend's brother's 40XBR4 does the same thing as my 46XBR4. Don't take things so personal because it's only a TV.

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post #1361 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer01 View Post

I spent several days trying to re-create your supposed smearing that occurs on every XBR4, and I was unable to do so.

I have been employed in the A/V business for the past 15 years, and I have owned my own A/V shop a few years back...and I have very good vision, so I think I'd be able to identify this if it in fact existed on my set.

Just don't see it, sorry.

But thanks for telling everyone here that it MUST be on their sets, because it is on yours, and that we just aren't as sophisticated as you because we can't see it. Please stop telling me what I can and cannot see, I can decide that for myself.

Also, your posts are in the wrong thread, this is a calibration thread, move your posts to the owners thread, or better yet, start your own thread and you can continue your own discussion.

(Also, you might want to learn to spell, you keep using the word "break" when you mean to use "brake" to describe applying the brakes on a car...)


Thanks for the English lesson champ when you speak 5 languages like me try to correct me again, English is my 5th language.
And for the problem just look at the smearing post and hunderds of other post on the net and you will see that is more then my single problem, and this is calibration thread, if i can somehow calibrate my screen so i can fix the smearing i think it's exact thread where is supposed to be, we are talking about fixing the picture quality either colors, contrast or smearing it's all calibrating the TV one way or the other.

I feel sorry for people that buys tvs from your shop and getting advice from you with your perfect 20/20 vision that can see everything Cristal clear.
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post #1362 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 03:12 PM
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RE: Smearing, lag, trailing and so on.
I have been a gamer for 20 years and I know exactly what smearing, lagging, trailing and so on is. My PS3 through my XBR4 did not exhibit this trait on the few games I tried. My PC is the gaming platform of choice for me and I have seen my XBR4 smear on just one game out of the 10 or so I have tried. The game or flight sim X-Plane showed slight smearing of dark objects against light objects in movement. Games such as BioShock, Far Cry, IL2 and others did not show this trait.

I believe you are seeing it and I also beleive there are those that do not have this trait to the extreme seen in the videos. I have a little, you have alot, others have none, luck of the draw I guess.

My XBR4 52 was perfect when I first bought it but after three weeks of intensive use (gaming, movies, tv) a cloud has formed in the lower right corner.

Oh, and please don't give me any crap for my spelling. I only know one language and mangle that every chance I get.
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post #1363 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 03:27 PM
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Posted this in the owner's thread by mistake...more applicable here.

If I'm trying to reduce some of the overly red look to my picture, would I be better off reducing Red Gain or Red Bias? I want to keep it on Warm 2 as all of the reviews and comments state that it is the closest to 6500. Basically, I'm trying to understand what the difference between Gain and Bias. To me, it would seem like reducing either should lessen the overall "red" effect.

Can anyone explain what the two terms mean and how they affect the overall picture?
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post #1364 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bduffy10 View Post

Posted this in the owner's thread by mistake...more applicable here.

If I'm trying to reduce some of the overly red look to my picture, would I be better off reducing Red Gain or Red Bias? I want to keep it on Warm 2 as all of the reviews and comments state that it is the closest to 6500. Basically, I'm trying to understand what the difference between Gain and Bias. To me, it would seem like reducing either should lessen the overall "red" effect.

Can anyone explain what the two terms mean and how they affect the overall picture?

Gain adjusts bright scenes. Bias adjusts dark scenes.
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post #1365 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 04:57 PM
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Thanks! I think it's in the bright scenes that I have too much red, so I'll back off the Gain.
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post #1366 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 09:14 PM
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hello all. i was wondering if anyone has a good list of settings for everyday cable use? I have tried many of the settings posted and feel all look pretty good some better than others for my taste, but what about for football games etc. or are do most settings work for games and for instance bd and/or hd dvd. thanks in advance. happy holidays
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post #1367 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamingarena View Post

I don't think so it took me all day yesterday to check 4 best buys and 3 Future Shops and 2 Sony stores around my area, plus my friend owns XBR4 too in total i tested 9 XBR4 screens and every single one had same problem so i'm convinced that all XBR4 have same problems, just some people can't tell the difference or just try to ignore the problem, but the problem is there big time, with some settings you can minimize the effect but that's about it. Minimize the effect does not cut it for this caliber of TV.

Eddy

I've had this very same problem if you're referring to smearing/trailing image...I thought my TV has ghosting problem, but after I did some research here and on the net(even cnet review on XBR4 mentioned this). This effect came from the setting of your motion enhancer; high = a lot of trailing, standard = less but still noticeable, completely turn it off you won't see any. I hope this helps. I know I'm kinda new to this forum. I don't have a lot of post count because I've only been using the search button and found most of the answers lol.
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post #1368 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 10:30 PM
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Most of the setting posts are towards the front of this thread. You might want to go back to the first 10 pages. There are a lot of good settings recommendation on here.
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post #1369 of 5495 Old 12-13-2007, 10:41 PM
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Hey everyone we already have a thread for the smearing issue. This thread was suppose to be for calibration. The rest of the talk should go to the owners forum because it makes it a pain for people to get settings having to go through all this other talk.

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post #1370 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 02:07 AM
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Just wanted to say thanks to all those who've posted their calibration settings. They were all very helpful in getting mine dialed in the way I like them.

Brandon
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post #1371 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostleak430 View Post

I've had this very same problem if you're referring to smearing/trailing image...I thought my TV has ghosting problem, but after I did some research here and on the net(even cnet review on XBR4 mentioned this). This effect came from the setting of your motion enhancer; high = a lot of trailing, standard = less but still noticeable, completely turn it off you won't see any. I hope this helps. I know I'm kinda new to this forum. I don't have a lot of post count because I've only been using the search button and found most of the answers lol.

Kudos to you for using the Search function.
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post #1372 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 11:40 AM
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For the record I notice the "smearing" very very little in COD4 on the PS3 connected via HDMI at 720p. It hasn't affected my online gaming or enjoyment. I hardly notice it on my set, never notice it in blu-ray, dvds or cable (HD/SD). I'm probably in the same boat as bplewis24. I'm also using settings close to lrstevens calibration. That's not to say that some people aren't having problems. I can't see the sets you're looking at with your eyes.

Enough with the adversarial posts. Let's keep this an intelligent forum for calibration discussion and not break down into an opinionated flame-fest. We're better than that.
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post #1373 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HazMathew View Post

For the record I notice the "smearing" very very little in COD4 on the PS3 connected via HDMI at 720p. It hasn't affected my online gaming or enjoyment. I hardly notice it on my set, never notice it in blu-ray, dvds or cable (HD/SD). I'm probably in the same boat as bplewis24. I'm also using settings close to lrstevens calibration. That's not to say that some people aren't having problems. I can't see the sets you're looking at with your eyes.

Enough with the adversarial posts. Let's keep this an intelligent forum for calibration discussion and not break down into an opinionated flame-fest. We're better than that.

Again let's keep the smearing talk in the thread I created.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954257

The point of this thread was just to post calibration settings and question specific to them. All this filler makes it hard for new users to get to the good stuff THE NUMBERS!

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post #1374 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 12:28 PM
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I have a new xbr4 46" and set up callibration using spreadsheet but when I set display at full pixel I get a green bar down the right side (about 12 pixels wide). This goes away when set to normal. Is this adjustable or a defect, have fios motorola box going into hdmi 1.
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post #1375 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mflick3 View Post

I have a new xbr4 46" and set up callibration using spreadsheet but when I set display at full pixel I get a green bar down the right side (about 12 pixels wide). This goes away when set to normal. Is this adjustable or a defect, have fios motorola box going into hdmi 1.

I have the xbr4 52" and FIOS motorola box using HDMI. The green band appears on my TV too on the right. On the left the band is present but is transparent. Somewhere on this thread I read it is expected in full pixel for cable source and will go away if you use DVD or Blu-ray. Someone said something about VITS.

See this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...L#post12463139

HTH
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post #1376 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 05:27 PM
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No offense to those of you with issues but I would really like to see this thread get back on track with calibrations and pictures , oh how I love the pictures. My cousin in Cali had his set calibrated about 10 days ago and we've been comparing settings, he's still tweaking after the fact and this is what he's come up with. I have no idea why he's still tweaking after shelling out $400.00, but hey, such is life. Below is a combination of my settings and his. Any brave soul want to get these a shot ? I think they look pretty good, a lot of "pop". Our settings were pretty similar to begin with, shockingly so, the main difference was "custom" and "picture" levels. The picture levels aren't that surprising though, the Sony is capable of maxing out the picture setting/contrast without clipping whites. The fact that he is still tweaking his television proves that calibration is not for everyone.

HDMI Sources

Mode: Custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: Max
Brightness: 47
Color: 62
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Low
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -3
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full Pixel

Component Video Sources


Mode: Custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: Max
Brightness: 35
Color: 52
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -3
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #1377 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

No offense to those of you with issues but I would really like to see this thread get back on track with calibrations and pictures , oh how I love the pictures. My cousin in Cali had his set calibrated about 10 days ago and we've been comparing settings, he's still tweaking after the fact and this is what he's come up with. I have no idea why he's still tweaking after shelling out $400.00, but hey, such is life. Below is a combination of my settings and his. Any brave soul want to get these a shot ? I think they look pretty good, a lot of "pop". Our settings were pretty similar to begin with, shockingly so, the main difference was "custom" and "picture" levels. The picture levels aren't that surprising though, the Sony is capable of maxing out the picture setting/contrast without clipping whites. The fact that he is still tweaking his television proves that calibration is not for everyone.

HDMI Sources

Mode: Custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: Max
Brightness: 47
Color: 62
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Low
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -3
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full Pixel

Component Video Sources


Mode: Custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: Max
Brightness: 35
Color: 52
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm 2
Noise Reduction: Off
Mpeg Noise Reduction: Off
DRC: Off
Black Corrector: Off
ACE: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

White Balance:
Red Gain: -1
Green Gain: -4
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -3
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Off
Cinemotion: Auto1
Video Color Space (x.v.color): Off
Color Matrix: Auto
Game/Text: Off
Light Sensor: Off
Display Area: Full

Long time lurker - first time poster. Thanks to all for the invaluable information provided, and their spirit of sharing. I am thrilled with how my new 46xbr4 looks. And I agree. Let's keep this thread on topic for calibration. Cheers - jes
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post #1378 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 06:15 PM
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Do any of you guys still talk to the pro calibrator techs you had over to calibrate your displays? I have a weird question that maybe they can answer...

Is it possible to turn off the XBR4/5 scalers (maybe via the service menu)? That way all content would be 1:1 pixel mapped?

Would be interesting to see what resolution most content is really encoded in when sent to my TV (i.e. Broadcast content, PS3 games, etc.). I dont think I would mind the black borders, but as long as I could turn the scaling back on if I wanted to.

Anyone else ever wonder this?
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post #1379 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 07:11 PM
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Lrstevens,

Been living off of (and enjoying) your original posted settings...when I get back tonight, I'll give these a shot. Very curious as I was pretty much set on utilizing yours and staying out of the settings...oh well.

....here we go again!!!!!
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post #1380 of 5495 Old 12-14-2007, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bduffy10 View Post

Lrstevens,

Been living off of (and enjoying) your original posted settings...when I get back tonight, I'll give these a shot. Very curious as I was pretty much set on utilizing yours and staying out of the settings...oh well.

....here we go again!!!!!

Hey, I'm all about options . Happy Tweaking!

Making the most out of what I got.
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