Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

So if you're watching something in 480i/p or 720p then perhaps Standard would be a better setting, since these sources have less resolution to begin with? I'd guess that 1080i would be best in Custom since that should be an easy upscale to 1080p, especially with motionflow. 1080p sources should only be watched in Cinema or Custom.

Yet again Sony doesn't include the info we need in the owners manual to understand these TV's. I'm still a bit skeptical about this though. Why would the TV display less resolution in Vivid & Standard but not in Cinema or Custom and they don't explain that and why in the owner's manual????

************
After reading the hdguru review, and some online stuff about deinterlacing I think the lower resolution that hdguru is referring to is an artifact of the deinterlacing process that might be used in the vivid and standard modes. From what I've read there appear to be 3 or 4 different methods of taking an interlaced signal and converting it into a progressive scan signal. Some of these methods actually throw away some of the odd or even numbered interlaced frames. The XBR4 sets always display in 1080p mode, but what might be happening in the tests that hdguru is running is that they pick up on the loss of the frames if Sony is using one of the deinterlacing methods that tosses frame information. From what I've read there doesn't appear to be any actual loss of display clarity using those particular deinterlacing methods. Anyone familiar with the deinterlacing processes who can expand on this?
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post #152 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash79 View Post

Hi guys.

First off - I don't own one of these wonderful TVs yet; maybe someday. However, I am an electronics salesman and home theater enthusiast.

It's my understanding that Cinemotion is for the autodetection of film content for 3:2 pull down and that's it. I'm pretty sure I saw something in the manual about motion enhancing being disabled when auto2 is in use. So it sounds to me like auto1 does 3:2 pulldown PLUS adding interpolated frames, and auto2 might just do the 3:2 pulldown and then repeat frames to approximate 24fps ..?

Anyway, IMHO cinemotion will never enhance video games and should likewise be a moot point when viewing a 24p source.

I hope this helps clear some of the confusion for a few of you .. at least until we can get definitive answers from a Sony rep.


As far as I know, the XBR4 does not use 3:2 pulldown. Taken from the Sony website...

Quote:
Motionflow™ 120 Hz with Full HD high frame rate capability

Taking motion performance to the next level requires innovation and expertise. Enter Sony's Motionflow™ High Frame Rate technology. Motionflow™ detects the incoming video signal and applies the appropriate processing for optimum motion reproduction. Taking full advantage of film sourced 24fps encoded content available on DVD and Blu-ray Disc, Motionflow™ eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown and delivers smooth, judder free video, faithfully preserving the integrity of the original film. When 60fps content is detected, Motionflow™ doubles the amount of frames and uses real-time calculation to create a new level of natural motion reproduction. You'll experience movies and sports with a greater sense of realism than ever before.

I don't know how this plays into anything else tho.
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post #153 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 10:00 AM
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I bought the following HDMI cable from monoprice for my HD cable box. I had it setup with component cables before. I'm wondering if I bought the right cable because since I hooked it up I've noticed some really jagged edges. The cable is "High-Quality 24AWG HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified Male to Male". I did notice that the sound is a lot louder with the HDMI cable. It could have been the channel I was watching but I don't remember seeing that before I used this cable.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=
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post #154 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post


The XBR4 will process the image in any of the settings, like Standard, Vivid, Custom, etc, BUT according to HDGuru's hands-on review and tests, you will NOT SEE the full native 1080p resolution with any setting other than Cinema or Custom.

Did you see the results of Brandon's testing? (Page 18 of the owners thread):

Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

  • Using the HQV Blu-ray disk, I was able to do some testing on the TV:
  • Video Resolution Loss Test-The TV scored a perfect score in this test on my Custom settings. However, I was able to reproduce the HDGuru failures by setting the TV to Vivid mode. I isolated the failure to the "DRC Mode 1" option. For whatever reason, this causes resolution loss in both Film and Video Resolution Loss tests.
Brandon

And elsewhere,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I've run the HQV tests on my XBR4 and it properly deinterlaces 1080i content. I'm beginning to wonder why people think this is a Sony problem. As was mentioned, out of the box the XBR4's have DRC Mode1 on in their "Vivid" mode, and this causes it to fail the resolution loss test. However, turning DRC to "off" rectifies this.
Brandon



My take on the HDguru test was that he found the resolution problems on Vivid and Standard and didn't try to isolate it, but simply continued the testing in the other picture modes. Brandon went the next step and found out why, letting us modify and use the standard mode along with custom and cinema.

Here is my summary of the default settings in the picture modes. Note that Vivid and Standard both default to DRC Mode 1.

DEFAULT SONY PICTURE MODE SETTINGS:
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post #155 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 11:27 AM
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Can anyone explain why some people prefer Warm2 for movies? It just seems to place a reddish/brownish filter over everything.
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post #156 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

Can anyone explain why some people prefer Warm2 for movies? It just seems to place a reddish/brownish filter over everything.

I don't. I use either "neutral" or "cool." Most of the time "cool."
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post #157 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 03:15 PM
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So then DRC Mode 1 causes resolution loss on the Vivid and Standard settings, but not if you use it on Custom or Cinema?

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post #158 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

So then DRC Mode 1 causes resolution loss on the Vivid and Standard settings, but not if you use it on Custom or Cinema?

I don't use it on custom either. Try it yourself on HD cable. EPSN HD looks worse when DRC Mode 1 is ON compared to OFF.

And I use custom mode. There just seem to be more artifacts when DRC Mode 1 is on, no matter what. I have not tested this on Blu-ray yet.
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post #159 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE View Post

So then DRC Mode 1 causes resolution loss on the Vivid and Standard settings, but not if you use it on Custom or Cinema?

No, I believe that Brandon's conclusion was that DRC Mode 1 was the only reason that HDGuru saw problems on Vivid and Standard, and that when he turned it off it was corrected. The implication was that the same thing would happen on Custom or Cinema, as Digital_View is saying. Not having an HQV disk yet I can't duplicate Brandon's test.
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post #160 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 04:24 PM
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So, based on Brandon's test results, with DRC Mode 1 turned OFF in the Vivid setting, it would now be able to show the full 1080 lines of resolution...?

If correct, then this means the set properly deinterlaces in Vivid (contrary to HDGuru's testing), and that those who prefer Vivid can see the set's full resolution, as long as DRC Mode 1 is set to OFF.

I hope this summary is correct
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post #161 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldPete View Post

No, I believe that Brandon's conclusion was that DRC Mode 1 was the only reason that HDGuru saw problems on Vivid and Standard, and that when he turned it off it was corrected. The implication was that the same thing would happen on Custom or Cinema, as Digital_View is saying. Not having an HQV disk yet I can't duplicate Brandon's test.

Ya I have the DRC mode 1 off of mines to. The pictures quality imo looks pretty bad.
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post #162 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

So, based on Brandon's test results, with DRC Mode 1 turned OFF in the Vivid setting, it would now be able to show the full 1080 lines of resolution...?

If correct, then this means the set properly deinterlaces in Vivid (contrary to HDGuru's testing), and that those who prefer Vivid can see the set's full resolution, as long as DRC Mode 1 is set to OFF.

I hope this summary is correct

Agreed, that fits my understanding, if correct. Better summary than mine, thanks. My HQV BD is on order to verify.

Now in Wine+RFOM=relaxation mode.
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post #163 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 06:30 PM
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Hmmm......I thought that DRC mode 1 looked better at times then when it was off. Isn't DRC supposed to make things better? Not only are some saying it makes the picture worse but it also allegedly reduces the resolution???!!! WTH? There must be some point to it?

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post #164 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 08:06 PM
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Here are my settings. I have a noticeable green haze before white balance tweaking. Seems odd for a TV of this caliber. The green is much more noticeable on SD programs, a little less noticeable on HD programs and even less noticeable on the XBOX 360. I'm not completely happy with the cable settings yet. The color is just not right. I'll post again if I change the settings.

XBOX 360 (VGA connection):

Mode: CUSTOM
Backlight: 6
Picture: 89
Brightness: 52
Color: 60
Hue: R1
Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 40
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced CE: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

WHITE BALANCE:
Red Gain: -3
Green Gain: -6
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: -2
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: 0

Edge Enhancer: Off
Power Savings: Low
Motion Enhancer: Standard
Cinemotion: Not available on VGA connection


Comcast Cable (HDMI):

Picture Mode: CUSTOM
Backlight: 4
Picture: 68
Brightness: 53
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 40
Noise Red: Low
MPEG Red: Off
DRC Mode: Off
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced CE: Off
Gamma: Low
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off

WHITE BALANCE:
Red Gain: -3
Green Gain: -8
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: -2
Green Bias: -4
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Low
Power Savings: Low

Motion Enhancer: Standard
Cinemotion: Auto 2
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post #165 of 5494 Old 09-12-2007, 09:49 PM
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Oh my - I just examined in detail the default settings that OldPete posted above, and see that the XBR has (2) MAX default image settings for Vivid.

For those who love viewing with the Vivid mode, you should reduce the settings, and NEVER watch any mode that has MAX for Backlight and Picture (as Vivid mode does).

ALL your other settings (especially color etc) are now oversaturated (with some bleeding or pressed colors), your light output is completely unnatural, and in dark scenes (especially with roomlights turned off) the black level is non-existent and will reveal itself as GRAY.

You can compensate with a lower brightness, but still with MAX present for Backlight and Picture [contrast], your images are not normal but instead are illuminated and oversaturated.

Either lose the Vivid setting, or lower it's MAX settings for sure.
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post #166 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

So, based on Brandon's test results, with DRC Mode 1 turned OFF in the Vivid setting, it would now be able to show the full 1080 lines of resolution...?

If correct, then this means the set properly deinterlaces in Vivid (contrary to HDGuru's testing), and that those who prefer Vivid can see the set's full resolution, as long as DRC Mode 1 is set to OFF.

I hope this summary is correct

I tested this in Custom mode by turning DRC to "Mode 1" and then to "Off" and noticed that when turning it on, it failed, and when turning it off, it passed.

I'm not at home for the next 48 hours, so I can't verify this...but I THINK that is isn't possible to turn DRC to "Off" in the Vivid settings. Can anybody check and make sure?

Brandon
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post #167 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 06:33 AM
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I agree with tom_mack about the extra green. At first I confused it with yellow and spend a long time trying to cancel it out with blues, but then after turning down the greens to mine in both the whites and blacks, the problem went away. I recommend looking for it in faces.

Also, I would like to add my two cents about noise reduction. When I had it set to low, I noticed a significant motion blur problem.
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post #168 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_mack View Post

Here are my settings. I have a noticeable green haze before white balance tweaking. Seems odd for a TV of this caliber. The green is much more noticeable on SD programs, a little less noticeable on HD programs and even less noticeable on the XBOX 360. I'm not completely happy with the cable settings yet. The color is just not right.

While these settings have helped the green problem on my set, bright reds are looking BAD! This seems to affect live action programs only when a stop light, tail light or another bright red light is displayed, but for games or animated movies it is noticeable all the time! For example, in Pixar's Cars the red car should be a bright saturated red, but it has a duller orangish tint. On the XBOX, anytime the controller is shown onscreen, the Red "B" button is a pinkish-orange.

Any ideas on how to fix this? Is it possible?
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post #169 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I tested this in Custom mode by turning DRC to "Mode 1" and then to "Off" and noticed that when turning it on, it failed, and when turning it off, it passed.

I'm not at home for the next 48 hours, so I can't verify this...but I THINK that is isn't possible to turn DRC to "Off" in the Vivid settings. Can anybody check and make sure?

Brandon

I can turn DRC on/off in Vivid but only when watching HD cable. Watching blu-ray (HDMI) Vivid, the DRC is grayed out. And so are the advanced settings. But going to Custom, Standard and Cinema. Advanced becomes availible, but DRC is still grayed out.

It's a rubik's cube.
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post #170 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 07:51 AM
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I think that this set has a problem with reds, at least some of them do, as I have the same problem. The Cincinnati Reds should be called the Cincinnati Oranges. I've tweaked it to where it isn't too bad, but for a TV of this caliber I guess I never expected to get a set that had trouble displaying red. My pile of crap JVC ILA did a much better job of displaying reds than this set does. Like i've said before, all other colors are fantastic on this set which is why i'm weary of exchanging it. I think it's a problem native to this set whether some want to admit it or not. Maybe we've gotten some of the worse ones, I don't know. I've tried every setting on here as well as trying some on my own and still can't get a satisfying red out of it.
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post #171 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 07:53 AM
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I think that this set has a problem with reds, at least some of them do, as I have the same problem. The Cincinnati Reds should be called the Cincinnati Oranges. I've tweaked it to where it isn't too bad,

I think so too. However, i was able to adjust it out completely.
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post #172 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

I think so too. However, i was able to adjust it out completely.

Care to tell those with the problem how you dialed it out??? I don't have the problem, but I'm sure some would appreciate it.
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post #173 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

I think so too. However, i was able to adjust it out completely.

edwyun - Can you please post your settings? This is driving me nuts and if there is a solution other than returning the set...
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post #174 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:08 AM
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edwyun - Can you please post your settings? This is driving me nuts and if there is a solution other than returning the set...

I will when I get home. But like I said in my prior posts, my clouding issue wasn't too bad.
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post #175 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:10 AM
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Are u gonna exchange it or get another TV? I might have to do the same thing as this is driving me nuts also. Being a graphic designer and working with color all day long, i'm going crazy not being able to do much about it.
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post #176 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_View View Post

I can turn DRC on/off in Vivid but only when watching HD cable. Watching blu-ray (HDMI) Vivid, the DRC is grayed out. And so are the advanced settings. But going to Custom, Standard and Cinema. Advanced becomes availible, but DRC is still grayed out.

It's a rubik's cube.

Well that's interesting. Perhaps DRCMode isn't available on 1080p source material. I'll pop my HQV disc in the PS3 when I get home and test it. When testing the TVs deinterlacing capabilities the player must be set to 1080i, so I'll know whether this works or not later. It was a few weeks ago that I did the test so I can't remember if it allowed me to change it in Vivid mode or not.

Brandon
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post #177 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:43 AM
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I am getting my 40 XBR5 tomorrow and was wondering whether someone has this TV. Since the XBR4 and XBR5 are almost identical, will the XBR4 settings (regardless of size) that some of you posted work?
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post #178 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

I will when I get home. But like I said in my prior posts, my clouding issue wasn't too bad.

Its the Red that that I need to adjust out, not the clouds.
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post #179 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking 29 View Post

Are u gonna exchange it or get another TV? I might have to do the same thing as this is driving me nuts also. Being a graphic designer and working with color all day long, i'm going crazy not being able to do much about it.

I don't know. I'll call Sony and see if there is something that can be tweaked first. If they say it is normal, I'm not sure what to do. There are problems with all the other options out there...
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post #180 of 5494 Old 09-13-2007, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theginz2004 View Post

I am getting my 40 XBR5 tomorrow and was wondering whether someone has this TV. Since the XBR4 and XBR5 are almost identical, will the XBR4 settings (regardless of size) that some of you posted work?

The menus and functionality are identical on both sets. Only difference is glos black non-removable bezel, and RS-232 port on the xbr5. So any settings you find here that you like are definitely usable.
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