Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

So what do we need to be watching for Auto1 to look good? I currently watch regular DVDs and play games on my XBox360 via HDMI, and Auto1 looked horrible half the time. Sure, the motion blur on scrolling text was gone, but action-packed scenes of the movies/games looked awful.

Here's a neat test I did. I was playing Bioshock, and I was at the map screen. When I scrolled the map, the motion blur on the letters looked bad. But with Auto 1 there was no motion blur. But the rest of the game looked bad. Any ideas on how to further reduce motion blur, either through Xbox360 settings or through XBR4 settings?

well for my ps3 games i use Auto1 and standard on mov. enh. it gets really smooth, and looks really great!!
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post #242 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

So what do we need to be watching for Auto1 to look good? I currently watch regular DVDs and play games on my XBox360 via HDMI, and Auto1 looked horrible half the time...

Interesting observation. Is Bioshock 1080p?
My conclusion for now on when to use Auto 1 is with BD movies which are 1080p. (You can tell by using the display button).

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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

Sorry to be a downer about this, but this is the exact problem I have with this technology, at least at this point in time.

Users/owners have to almost have a degree from MIT to not only figure out what's going on with all these different settings and what they affect, but also how to apply them on each input AND know what the source feed is (i.e. 1080i/50 or 1080p/24 or SD or HD over component or over HDMI or over coax, etc.).

I suppose you could get good at it after a while and store your configs. on "custom" for one set of variables and then configs. on "standard" for another and so on, but geeeeez.....when do ever just get to sit, hit the power button and watch without tweaking??

Agreed, well put.
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post #243 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 02:48 PM
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A few pages back, post #185 I believe, someone posted this... "Anyone who bought this tv and does not have a blu-ray or hd-dvd with hdmi1.3 deep color is missing the point, one of those is a must and make sure it has the hdmi deep color."

Sorry to disappoint you, but it is NOT yet possible to actually see the benefits of the new "deep color" HDMI 1.3 processing.

Even though you have a display or receiver with 1.3 capability, the content source [Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc] MUST also be mastered in 1.3, and the player MUST output that disc's signal in 1.3.

To date, NO disc has been released with HDMI 1.3 mastering, so at this time it's still not yet possible for any consumer to see the effects (outside of tech labs who've used the technology).

You can learn more at the official website - http://www.hdmi.org/
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post #244 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 04:57 PM
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I just purchased the 52XBR4. I have Direct TV and have it connected via an HDMI cable to my HR20-700 box. So far, I have mixed emotions about this set. I paid big bucks because it is SUPPOSED to have a motion lessener thingy (you get the idea). My biggest problem with this set is that I'm getting HUGE BOX PIXELS when scenes change (even on HD channels). I think I could be in love with this TV except for the LARGE PIXELS are driving me crazy. I only have 30 days (less now) in which to return it. And of course, the SD picture is, uh, hmmmm, not good. A few color issues also, but the pixel problem is just TOOOOOO noticeable on a large TV. It has been suggested that I move further from the TV than the approx. 10' where my chair is but then I miss out on all the HD details (which is what all of this is supposed to be about, right?). HELP !!!

Any suggested settings for movement, SD, and color for the 52XBR4 thru an HR20 receiver with Direct TV? Thanks in advance for any help. I really don't want to have to return this beautiful thing.
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post #245 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

I just purchased the 52XBR4. I have Direct TV and have it connected via an HDMI cable to my HR20-700 box. So far, I have mixed emotions about this set. I paid big bucks because it is SUPPOSED to have a motion lessener thingy (you get the idea). My biggest problem with this set is that I'm getting HUGE BOX PIXELS when scenes change (even on HD channels). I think I could be in love with this TV except for the LARGE PIXELS are driving me crazy. I only have 30 days (less now) in which to return it. And of course, the SD picture is, uh, hmmmm, not good. A few color issues also, but the pixel problem is just TOOOOOO noticeable on a large TV. It has been suggested that I move further from the TV than the approx. 10' where my chair is but then I miss out on all the HD details (which is what all of this is supposed to be about, right?). HELP !!!

Any suggested settings for movement, SD, and color for the 52XBR4 thru an HR20 receiver with Direct TV? Thanks in advance for any help. I really don't want to have to return this beautiful thing.

What do you mean by "large pixels"?

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post #246 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 05:35 PM
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As scenes (esp. in HD) change rapidly, I was expecting "some" motion or blurring, but I'm getting "visible" pixelated "boxes" (all grouped together around objects) instead. Only for a moment, (as scenes change) but enough to drive me crazy. I can't find any settings to make them go away. I thought this TV was the best for LCD artifact type problems.
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post #247 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 05:37 PM
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Above problem has to be your Direct TV box, and their heavy compression techniques. Many people have complained over the years about Direct TV's quality. Sounds like extreme "macroblocking", especially if it's still noticeable at 10 feet away!

On a quality HDTV, especially one with native 1080p, you should never be able to "see" the pixels, unless sitting within 1 to 5 feet from a large screen size. HD signals should look very clean, which some have described as "looking thru a window" etc.

LARGE PIXELS is not a symptom of a quality, non-defective set (like the Sony XBR series, especially), and is indicative of the poorly processed signal being received from another source [Direct TV].

Have you tried viewing with a DVD or hi-def disc (Blu-ray or HD-DVD) - IF YOU STILL SEE LARGE PIXELS with any of these sources, then yes I would say it's the TV. But I feel Direct TV is at fault here. Check your DirectTV menu settings for possible mixups.
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post #248 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 05:59 PM
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I agree with Rusty, it's the source and it's due to over compression. Like he said, test the TV out with gaming and DVD/Bluray/HDDVD, if you don't see the blocks then you know it's the source and not the TV.

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post #249 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 06:28 PM
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I thought overcompression was just on SD? But, there's so much I don't know. Anyway, over on the DBS Forum where we discuss Direct TV and DTV's HD specifically, I had posted about this and the general consenses seems to be typical "LCD artifacting" (being more visible now on a larger, clearer LCD TV).

One thing I learned which REALLY surprised me was when I went to my smaller (40" & 46") Sony LCD TV's and looked "closely", they also had the same problem. I never, never noticed that before and they are all on different receivers. One person suggested that it's typical and once you see it on a larger TV, that your brain will then notice it on all of the TV's (or something to that affect).

Any settings out there from Direct TV (HR20) people? Might help, might not.

P.S. I don't have Blu Ray (yet) and I did try a standard DVD hooked up via an HDMI connection using a Sony Upconverter type DVD Player. So far, the 2 quick DVD checks looked OK. I mean I could see "some/little" artifacting and movement, but not like on "some" of the HD broadcasts.
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post #250 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

As scenes (esp. in HD) change rapidly, I was expecting "some" motion or blurring, but I'm getting "visible" pixelated "boxes" (all grouped together around objects) instead. Only for a moment, (as scenes change) but enough to drive me crazy. I can't find any settings to make them go away. I thought this TV was the best for LCD artifact type problems.

jancie805,

That's what I get. Some channels I get "boxy pixels" on fast motion. But This is only 5%-7% of the time. It depends on what channel I'm watching. For example, local NFL HD broadcast (CBS/FOX) look great. But EPSN HD and national NFL HD do not look as good as the local HD broadcast. But still great. iHD and Discovery HD look very good 80% of the time. But some programs are just good and not great (more artifacts and "boxy" pixels). But some of the better live broadcast look incredible. Again, it just depends.

PS3 games and Blu-ray look great, 98% of the time. Some games/movies look better than others. But I never have "boxy pixels" on those sources. It's more about film "grain" or resolution.

It seems as though as your cable HD box is producing a low quality HD signal. Is this the first HDTV you've owned? How did the other's perform? What about blu-ray? Does it look the same?
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post #251 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

LARGE PIXELS is not a symptom of a quality, non-defective set (like the Sony XBR series, especially), and is indicative of the poorly processed signal being received from another source [Direct TV].

Exactly.
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post #252 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

So far, the 2 quick DVD checks looked OK. I mean I could see "some/little" artifacting and movement, but not like on "some" of the HD broadcasts.

That's just it - you should NOT see any "pixels" or "artifacting" effects from your source's signals [ESPECIALLY HD signals], unless that source is sending a poorly processed, heavily compressed signal - just what Direct TV has been guilty of for many years. Complaints are rampant on internet newsgroups and blogs.

HD signals (720p, 1080i, and 1080p sources) should look extremely clean and noise free. Unlike Direct TV, my Houston Comcast service is very good now, since the upgrade this past year [formerly Time Warner], and more to come.

With Comcast, there has not been the noise problems that you noted above. I currently own a 2-yr old Sharp Aquos, and am looking to upgrade to a larger size LCD soon, with interest in both the Sony XBR series, and the newly released JVC 898 series LCD (with their excellent 32-bit processing chip).
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post #253 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 06:57 PM
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I'm not sure if I accurately described my problem. It's NOT the typical (sometimes) signal type "depixilation" problem, but something I never saw before this larger, newer LCD TV. It's only associated with FAST movement or rapid scene changes PERIODICALLY only on some of the broadcasts that I've noticed (mostly noticable on really CLEAR and beautiful HD broadcasts). Anyway, whatever the cause, I thought this particular TV was made to handle "movement or artifacting" or did I misunderstand the specs?
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post #254 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 07:09 PM
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Using my xbox360 / hd-dvd plugged in via HDMI I finally got these settings to work for me:

Backlight: 7
Picture: 85
Brightness: 45
Color: 72
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 38
Noise Reduction: Off
DRF: Off (default for HDMI)
Black Corrector: Low
Advanced CE: Low
Gamma: Low
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Low
White Balance:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -4
B-Gain: -3
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: -1
B-Bias: -1
Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto1

They are a toned down vivid without the bleeding, but have more color depth than Cinema and Standard.
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post #255 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 07:13 PM
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jancie805,

Well, then you need to review the previous posts here for OWNER SETTINGS so that you can fine-tune your set for the best performance.

The Sony XBR series has many advanced image settings, and depending on what's selected (and along with what viewing mode is chosen - Vivid, Standard, Cinema, Custom etc), can make a big difference in the image quality received from your source(s).

I'm not an XBR owner so others may wish to respond furthur, along with you reviewing the previous posts here on this thread.
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post #256 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

I'm not sure if I accurately described my problem. It's NOT the typical (sometimes) signal type "depixilation" problem, but something I never saw before this larger, newer LCD TV. It's only associated with FAST movement or rapid scene changes PERIODICALLY only on some of the broadcasts that I've noticed (mostly noticable on really CLEAR and beautiful HD broadcasts). Anyway, whatever the cause, I thought this particular TV was made to handle "movement or artifacting" or did I misunderstand the specs?

janice805,

What's your noise reduction setting during HD broadcasts?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, could you post all of your settings like the post above?

There are people in this thread that can take one look at your settings and, from their own experiences, pin-point your problem. It's no guarantee, but it's far from a longshot either. Some good folks on this forum who are willing to help.
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post #257 of 5492 Old 09-18-2007, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by R.MnTnA View Post

Well I'm bringing my 40XBR4 back this week for another one. Seems as though there is something wrong with viewing angles on mine. As I asked before on the forum and some people have confirmed it is Not a problem watching SD channels on an angle for most of the sets except mine and it's driving me crazy. Colors look like crap and bleeding. Plus the fan is getting a little loud in the back I think. Oh well still within 30days. See you soon CC.

That sucks that you have to return it, My set is making noise also but it's not that loud.

I'm not sure what to do.

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post #258 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

I'm not sure if I accurately described my problem. It's NOT the typical (sometimes) signal type "depixilation" problem, but something I never saw before this larger, newer LCD TV. It's only associated with FAST movement or rapid scene changes PERIODICALLY only on some of the broadcasts that I've noticed (mostly noticable on really CLEAR and beautiful HD broadcasts). Anyway, whatever the cause, I thought this particular TV was made to handle "movement or artifacting" or did I misunderstand the specs?

So, what you are saying is that you see this problem on ALL signals (good and bad), only during FAST motion, ONLY on SOME broadcasts?
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post #259 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

One thing I learned which REALLY surprised me was when I went to my smaller (40" & 46") Sony LCD TV's and looked "closely", they also had the same problem. I never, never noticed that before and they are all on different receivers.

Any settings out there from Direct TV (HR20) people? Might help, might not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

It's NOT the typical (sometimes) signal type "depixilation" problem, but something I never saw before this larger, newer LCD TV. It's only associated with FAST movement or rapid scene changes PERIODICALLY only on some of the broadcasts that I've noticed (mostly noticable on really CLEAR and beautiful HD broadcasts).

I'm using an HR20 and haven't noticed consistent problems on different channels, only those that appeared to be on the transmitting/encoding end, but then I don't have a trained eye and have a 46". I had a problem at first when I forgot to set the HDTV/Resolutions to 720p and 1080i, and assume you''ve done that already. Other settings that might be relevant are Cinemotion on Auto 2 and Motion Enhancer on high, but I haven't seen big differences on the Motion Enhancer. One important setting is to turn the DRC off. Tried lots of different picture settings, but at the moment using Standard mode, DRC off, backlight 3-8 and picture 70-80 depending on room lighting, power saving low.

Please let us know what you find; might help others of us with the HR20.

Pete
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post #260 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 06:24 AM
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I hate to keep going back to the whole Auto1/Auto2 cinemotion issue, but are we now saying that Auto1 works great with 1080p? Because to me, standard DVDs upscaled to 1080p still look weird and jittery. I haven't had a chance to try HD DVDs yet, but I am using my XBox 360 to play the standard DVDs through HDMI, and the XBR4's display says it is 1080p.

Also, Bioshock looks great with Auto1 and Motion Enhancer set to high. Panning at high rates seems to add some jitter that isn't there when viewing in Auto2, but the whole experience overall is very smooth. With Auto2, panning is more uniform but also a lot blurrier.

Is there a way to save the Cinemotion settings or do I have to manually change it each time?
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post #261 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

I hate to keep going back to the whole Auto1/Auto2 cinemotion issue, but are we now saying that Auto1 works great with 1080p? Because to me, standard DVDs upscaled to 1080p still look weird and jittery. I haven't had a chance to try HD DVDs yet, but I am using my XBox 360 to play the standard DVDs through HDMI, and the XBR4's display says it is 1080p.

Is there a way to save the Cinemotion settings or do I have to manually change it each time?

The debate is on Auto 1 with 1080p/24 (24 fps frame rate). If the header says 1080p/24 then Auto 1 might be better (depending, perhaps, on the viewer and the film). If the header says 1080p HD then I think consensus may be to use Auto 2 or off.

The Cinemotion is saved for each input. To change back and forth on a given input requires going thru the XMB menu, which is a pain.

Not all HD DVD players, it seems, support 1080p/24; some convert it to 1080p/60. Since you're using Auto 1 for Bioshock, if you have 1080p/24 supported then you could either keep it in Auto 1, or try Auto 2 to see how you like it. If 1080p24 is not supported then you may need to change it back to Auto 2 when you watch movies.

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post #262 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 08:19 AM
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Got up really late for me this morning and need more coffee to wake up. I'll read the posts since last night and go check the TV and post how it's doing this morning (with the settings, as one recommended). I really do appreciate your insights. Be back after a bit.
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post #263 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

I thought overcompression was just on SD? .

Not at all. It's a very big problem with some HD channels and providers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janice805 View Post

Anyway, over on the DBS Forum where we discuss Direct TV and DTV's HD specifically, I had posted about this and the general consenses seems to be typical "LCD artifacting" (being more visible now on a larger, clearer LCD TV).

This sounds to me like macroblocking on fast moving pans or scenes. In that case it isn't inherent in the technology, it's the source. Anyhow, it sounds like people over there are spreading some FUD about LCD technology, perhaps because they don't know any better or perhaps because they have an agenda. Take it with a grain of salt and in the meantime pay close attention to the different sources and how they appear on your TV during fast pans.

Brandon
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post #264 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

That sucks that you have to return it, My set is making noise also but it's not that loud.

I'm not sure what to do.

Is yours sound like more of a Humm or a vibration. Mine is just loud enough to bother me when I'm watching tv or a movie. But the PQ on an angle is killing me.
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post #265 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.MnTnA View Post

Is yours sound like more of a Humm or a vibration. Mine is just loud enough to bother me when I'm watching tv or a movie. But the PQ on an angle is killing me.

What's the angle degree of incidence that you first notice a degredation of PQ? (100, 135, 150, etc.)
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post #266 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 12:01 PM
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Out of curiousity, how severe of an angle do you watch at?
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post #267 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.MnTnA View Post

Is yours sound like more of a Humm or a vibration. Mine is just loud enough to bother me when I'm watching tv or a movie. But the PQ on an angle is killing me.

Yeah, mine is a low hum.

But it does brother me when there is a quite scene in a movie and I could barely hear that hum, where before I believe I didn't hear that when I first purchase my set.

I got the 4 year warranty with BB, should I call them?

Guys, any input?

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post #268 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

Yeah, mine is a low hum.

But it does brother me when there is a quite scene in a movie and I could barely hear that hum, where before I believe I didn't hear that when I first purchase my set.

I got the 4 year warranty with BB, should I call them?

Guys, any input?

It looks like you are still within your 30 day period (right?).

Given that the xbr's have fans in them up to the 52" and that the xbr manual says that a "whirring" sound is normal, I don't know what they can do if you call them. However, I do recall one poster here saying that he called Sony tech. and they replaced/repaired the fan in his xbr to his satisfaction, but I don't recall the details.

I think I would call either Sony technical assistance (a crap shoot) or call an authorized Sony technican in your area and ask them what can possibly be done about it. I just don't think that swapping it out for another (unless its a 52" ) will work long-term as the noise seems to manifest itself some days or weeks after initial viewing.

I don't think I helped you much, but that's what I would do.
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post #269 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

I hate to keep going back to the whole Auto1/Auto2 cinemotion issue, but are we now saying that Auto1 works great with 1080p? Because to me, standard DVDs upscaled to 1080p still look weird and jittery. I haven't had a chance to try HD DVDs yet, but I am using my XBox 360 to play the standard DVDs through HDMI, and the XBR4's display says it is 1080p.

Also, Bioshock looks great with Auto1 and Motion Enhancer set to high. Panning at high rates seems to add some jitter that isn't there when viewing in Auto2, but the whole experience overall is very smooth. With Auto2, panning is more uniform but also a lot blurrier.

Is there a way to save the Cinemotion settings or do I have to manually change it each time?

Here's what I found out...

Using Blu-ray (1080p@/24).

My favorite two settings:

Cinemotion | Motion Enhancer
---------------------------------
Auto1 / Standard = Looks great
Auto2 / High = Looks great too! (Can't decide my favorite)

Other settings I've tried...

Cinemotion | Motion Enhancer
---------------------------------
Auto1 / High = Looks CRYSTAL CLEAR for motion, but speeds up the action too fast (looks like it's 1.5x speed; strange).

Auto2 / Off = Looks fine, but needs a bit more Motion Enhancer
Auto2 / Standard = Looks better than "Off," but not as good as "High."

Off / Off, Standard or High = Not enough difference for me to use

---------------------------------

Also, those of you that have a PS3. You can turn on RGB (HDMI) FULL in your display settings on your PS3. The XBR4 supports RGB (HDMI) Full:

See link for info on how to test... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852410

Test image: http://sr-388.net/images/patterns/Brightness.jpg


RGB Limited | RGB FULL
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post #270 of 5492 Old 09-19-2007, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vumcrab View Post

It looks like you are still within your 30 day period (right?).

Given that the xbr's have fans in them up to the 52" and that the xbr manual says that a "whirring" sound is normal, I don't know what they can do if you call them. However, I do recall one poster here saying that he called Sony tech. and they replaced/repaired the fan in his xbr to his satisfaction, but I don't recall the details.

I think I would call either Sony technical assistance (a crap shoot) or call an authorized Sony technican in your area and ask them what can possibly be done about it. I just don't think that swapping it out for another (unless its a 52" ) will work long-term as the noise seems to manifest itself some days or weeks after initial viewing.

I don't think I helped you much, but that's what I would do.

No, you did help me out some. I appreciated.

I purchased my TV on August 27.

I think I will call up Sony and ask them if the buzzing sound is normal or should my fan be replaced. What do the rest of you guys think?

Thanks in advance.

"Some men aren't looking for anything logical.
They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.
Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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