LCD Panel types used in TVs? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 08-20-2007, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jonathan DA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 14
In the computer display world, there is a lot of discussion around the various panel types used in different displays (S-IPS vs. TN vs. S-PVA, etc.) however I don't see that factor used when discussing LCD TVs. Why is that?

Thanks,

Jonathan
Jonathan DA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 08-20-2007, 03:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary McCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Posts: 6,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 43
A large part of the discussion related to panel types is in regard to frame rates for gaming purposes, or sometimes refresh rates. Most LCD TVs are locked to the powerline 60Hz refresh, a technique that minimizes flicker with flourescent room lighting. Thus the screen refreshes every 16.67ms, and any panel with <10ms gray-to-gray response time works fine. Most video content is from film source (24fps) or video (30fps), so the source itself contains plenty of motion blur - you only need a panel that is fast enough to not add noticeably to the blur already present.

This is very different from a video game environment where there is no motion blur in the source, and any blur that you see has been added by the display.

Most of the panels used in LCD HDTVs are the IPS types, which are suitable for usage where the primary application is slower video frame rates, they have certain advantages in black levels and viewing angles. Note that seldom is a premium grade "Super" panel (S-IPS) found in an HDTV, it just doesn't need the speed.

A few HD-ready monitors like the Westinghouse LVM series have S-MVA panels, because these are primarily computer displays with the secondary video application. Even so, the bigger a panel, the slower it is, due to the pixel size and switching time - a good response time for a large panel is 8ms or below - the Westinghouse LVMs have a 6.5ms spec.

Gary McCoy
The United States Constitution ©1791. All Rights Reserved.

Gary McCoy is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 03:43 AM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Guys from what I have gathered:

Super IPS = LG + Philips + toshiba?
IPS Alpha = Panasonic + Hitachi
S PVA = Samsung

What panels do Sharp, JVC and Sony use?
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:01 AM
Member
 
GebLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spangdahlem, Germany
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDrAg0nxX View Post

Hi Guys from what I have gathered:

Super IPS = LG + Philips + toshiba?
IPS Alpha = Panasonic + Hitachi
S PVA = Samsung

What panels do Sharp, JVC and Sony use?

Sony uses the same panels as Samsung, as for the other two companies I'm not sure.
GebLX is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nmlobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Yorktown, VA
Posts: 2,475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
JVC uses IPS
Nmlobo is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:20 AM
Member
 
GebLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spangdahlem, Germany
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
no text
GebLX is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Sharp makes their own mostly.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
What kinds of technology does CMO and AUO manufacture?

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:22 AM
Member
 
noears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

A large part of the discussion related to panel types is in regard to frame rates for gaming purposes, or sometimes refresh rates. Most LCD TVs are locked to the powerline 60Hz refresh, a technique that minimizes flicker with flourescent room lighting. Thus the screen refreshes every 16.67ms, and any panel with <10ms gray-to-gray response time works fine. Most video content is from film source (24fps) or video (30fps), so the source itself contains plenty of motion blur - you only need a panel that is fast enough to not add noticeably to the blur already present.

In my experience shopping for a computer monitor a year ago, panel type discussions we just as much about viewing angle, color bit-depth, and black levels. At the time I read that S-IPS was the best for black levels and they had 8-bit color which others didn't. MVA maybe had better viewing angles? I don't recall...

TN were the cheap but fast panels with only 6-bit color.

I just picked up a Sony W3000 LCD with 10-bit color. I wonder what panel they use...
noears is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:30 AM
Member
 
GebLX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spangdahlem, Germany
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So:

Sony + Samsung = S-PVA
Panasonic, Hitachi, Toshiba = IPS Alpha( IPS-Pro or AS-IPS, one of the two)
LG + Phillips = S-IPS
Sharp = Their own technology
Westinghouse, Vizio, Emerson, Olevia = ???
GebLX is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 06:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 118
As far as I can tell, Vizio uses half a dozen panel manufacturers/types. Including LG/Philips IPS/S-IPS and Samsung/Sony S-PVA.

Someone stated that some Westinghouse use S-MVA.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 07:17 AM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
But I thought there are only 3 types of panels

TN, IPS, VA?

You guys mean to say sharp is not within any of these??
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 11-07-2007, 11:17 AM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From what I have gathered so far please correct me if I make a mistake:

TN Film (Twisted Nematic + Film) = Mostly only used in PC monitors,
fast response times,
not commonly used in TVs.

MVA (Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment) = ?
Excellent Blacks
Very Low noise during movie playback

S-PVA (Patterned Vertical Alignment) = Samsung + Sony
Best Blacks
Low noise during movie playback

S-IPS (In Plane Switching) = LG + Philips
Widest Viewing angles
Response times are now getting to be as fast as TN panels
Commonly Noisy during movie playback

IPS-Alpha = Panasoinc + Hitachi + Toshiba
?

Advanced Super View (ASV) = Sharp

?
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 11-08-2007, 12:01 AM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No sexpert advise?
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 11-08-2007, 12:48 AM
Newbie
 
onemoredeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.

You can find more information at the 'display' category of hardforum.com.
[sorry, I am a new member here. I can't post a URL]
onemoredeal is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 11-08-2007, 03:19 AM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It seems there are very little info about IPS alpha and ASV.....
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 11-08-2007, 10:17 PM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10


The IPSα panel offers blur-free video performance.



The IPSα panel displays crystal-clear high resolution digital images at low power.




IS this what they mean about HARDWARE 100/120Hz processing, instead of software?
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 11-08-2007, 10:54 PM
Member
 
XxDrAg0nxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From what I have gathered so far please correct me if I make a mistake:

TN Film (Twisted Nematic + Film) = Mostly only used in PC monitors,
due to its fast response times, not commonly used in TVs.

MVA (Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment)
= ?

* Excellent Blacks
* Very Low noise during movie playback


S-PVA (Patterned Vertical Alignment)
= Samsung + Sony

* Best Blacks
* Low noise during movie playback

S-IPS (In Plane Switching) = LG + Philips

* Widest Viewing angles
* Response times are now getting to be as fast as TN panels
* Commonly Noisy during movie playback

IPS-Alpha = Panasoinc + Hitachi + Toshiba
?

Advanced Super View (ASV)
= Sharp

* Anti-Glare / Anti-Reflection (AGAR) canceling reflection rather diffusing ?
* Best contrast?
* specially designed cell structure, which supposedly offers blur free images on moving video?
XxDrAg0nxX is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off