Official Sony XBR4/5 Owners Thread(NO PRICE TALK) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

Here is a good setting, but I need to see how it holds up, and what changes it needs. XA2 directly into the XBR4 via HDMI 1.3 cable. Calibrated using LOTR Fellowship, as it's a tough calibration.

CUSTOM
Backlight: 4
Picture: 68
Brightness: 53
Color: 51
Hue: 0
Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 55
Noise Reduc: Low
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced CE: Medium
Gamma: Low
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off
WHITE BALANCE:

Red Gain: -3
Green Gain: -5
Blue Gain: 0
Red Bias: -2
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: 0

Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: High

Motion Enhancer: Standard

Someone Else give these a whirl, and post your level of happiness. Thanks

Very good, tnx,
would you mind to share your Video Option settings?
BTW my Level of Happiness: Standard to High
best of luck
AG
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post #272 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

Very good, tnx,
would you mind to share your Video Option settings?
BTW my Level of Happiness: Standard to High
best of luck
AG

they are at default levels

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #273 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 04:54 PM
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The motion Enhancer set to high works well with my Scientificatlanta cable box, with component hookup. CNBC Ticker crystal clear. With HD DVD it works too well, almost a 3D look but it produces a speedlike issue. Set to normal is fine, and is an improvement. I am pleased with the performance overall. On the 40" it's so clear, I can get right up close within a foot and it still looks decent. Compared to my V2500, which I love, you need to be at least 2-3 feet away. There is a clear performance upgrade over the V2500. I do prefer the V2500 menu navigation, it's pure simplicity, but not very calibratable.

My only complaint over XBR4 so far, is SD Cable, with the exception of motion, its PQ is not much better than V2500, but the V2500 is very good IMHO. I haven't played with the settings much though. I don't have it on the wall in my bedroom as of now, which is where my 8300HD box is. The 4600 isn't as good.

Again, DO NOT USE HDMI WITH SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA BOXES!

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #274 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pelowell View Post

Ok, I've read the forum front to back, and the Samsung 81 forum as well, looked at the pics, read the comments/reviews...

Two things are immediately apparent to me: Sony still has clouding/muira issues. And IMO overall the PQ on the Sony's is lacking something. I dont know if it's brightness/overall CR due to the Samsungs LED LDBL, or something inherent in the Sony's processing, but it seems almost every time when I've looked at Sony/Samsung side by side, either in person (for the older sets) or online, price comparable sets, the Samsung squeaks out by a good Cyrano Nose.

I havent made up my mind yet, still want to see these sets side by side in person, so you contented Sony owners, persuade me!! What made you buy the Sony over the Samsung? Is it totally subjective, or are there good technical reasons for opting for a Sony? Or if you are an uncontented Sony owner, Why?

I have gone through 3 Samsung 4065's and finally said enough is enough! I have to say that Sears has been VERY helpfull during this whole ordeal!! They are letting me switch (or upgrade) to the Sony 40XBR4. On paper the Sony has better sound (4 speakers instead of 2), better video processing (BRAVIA Pro), better panel (10bit compared to 8bit), better remote (backlit), better interface (like the PS3) and a matte screen/bezel (compared to the mirror finish). I can say that I have seen the 46XBR4 side by side with a 4665 and it blew it away!! I don't know how I ever got along without a 120hz panel after seeing blu-ray's at 24fps. I do worry about the clouding/mura reports but hopefully this will not issue on the 40". This is just my 2 cents so take it for what it is worth. You can't go wrong with either brand ........
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post #275 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelowell View Post

Ok, I've read the forum front to back, and the Samsung 81 forum as well, looked at the pics, read the comments/reviews...

Two things are immediately apparent to me: Sony still has clouding/muira issues. And IMO overall the PQ on the Sony's is lacking something. I dont know if it's brightness/overall CR due to the Samsungs LED LDBL, or something inherent in the Sony's processing, but it seems almost every time when I've looked at Sony/Samsung side by side, either in person (for the older sets) or online, price comparable sets, the Samsung squeaks out by a good Cyrano Nose.

I havent made up my mind yet, still want to see these sets side by side in person, so you contented Sony owners, persuade me!! What made you buy the Sony over the Samsung? Is it totally subjective, or are there good technical reasons for opting for a Sony? Or if you are an uncontented Sony owner, Why?

I think another reason is that the Samsungs have reflective glassy screens whereas the Sonys do not. That is especially important if you aren't a hermit crab... I have a 50" Panny 700U plasma (advertised to have an "anti-reflective" screen) and it is sooooooo annoying to see reflections when you're watching TV. What's the point of superior black levels when all you see in the black is the room you're sitting in?? I will be the first to admit that the glassy screen gives an advantage on PQ, but I'd rather have a barely worse PQ (and I'm talking BARELY, as in, you'd never notice unless you had the TV's side-by-side to compare) and no reflection than the reverse. Just my opinion, but take it from a current glassy-screen owner the LCD is the way to go. Fortunately I'm within my return period and can return. I'm going with the 52XBR5 -- unfortunately I have to wait another 38 days!!!
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post #276 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:24 PM
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My attempt at a dark picture. 46"
LL
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post #277 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:24 PM
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And by LCD I mean the Sony, not the Samsung (because of the glassy screen).
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post #278 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:25 PM
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what should you set cinamotion to: off, auto1, auto2
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post #279 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NY350Z View Post

My attempt at a dark picture. 46"

Wow that looks great. Can you take a picture of a blank dark screen so we can see the beautiful dark uniformity with no clouds whatsoever? If you have time and care to indulge, please take a couple photos at different backlight settings. Thanks!!
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post #280 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:29 PM
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The blacks are amazing with this TV, it's hard to show in pictures, but its really is the best I have ever seen on an LCD.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #281 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:37 PM
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That too -- usually the main differences people cite between plasma and LCD are the black levels and motion blur. Sony has achieved some really deep blacks in the new XBRs (based on what I've seen at the store), and from what I hear the motionflow technology really helps SD content, thereby removing the two traditional advantages plasma has had. Add to that the non-glare screens and I'm sold. I'm not going to lie though -- when you set a good plasma (Panasonic or Pioneer) next to an XBR4, you can still notice the slight grey tinge to the Sony's blacks, but as I said before this is only if you have the two side-by-side. I don't often sit and stare at blank dark screens and you wouldn't even notice unless you were thinking about it and really tried to imagine whether the black you're seeing could be even blacker... so, the XBR4/5 is the way to go... in my opinion... which is all that matters.

Where did the guy go that asked people if they were made of wax? That was funny. )
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post #282 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

what should you set cinamotion to: off, auto1, auto2

auto2

.
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post #283 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:44 PM
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thanks twilleyi, one more question. what about motionflow: high, standard or off
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post #284 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the XBR4 info I took using DVI to HDMI.

Monitor
Windows description......... Generic PnP Monitor
Manufacturer description.... SONY TV XV
Manufacturer................ Sony

Plug and Play ID............ SNY8300
Serial number............... n/a
EDID data source............ Registry (stored)

Manufacture date............ 2007, ISO week 32
EDID revision............... 1.3
Display type and signal..... Digital
Sync input support.......... n/a
Screen size................. 1600 x 900 mm (~76")
Power management............ n/a

Color characteristics
Display gamma............... 2.20
Red chromaticity............ Rx 0.625 - Ry 0.340
Green chromaticity.......... Gx 0.280 - Gy 0.595
Blue chromaticity........... Bx 0.155 - By 0.070
White point (default)....... Wx 0.283 - Wy 0.298

Timing characteristics
VESA GTF support............ Not supported
Horizontal scan range....... 15-70kHz
Vertical scan range......... 58-62Hz
Video bandwidth............. 150MHz
Extension blocks............ 1
Timing recommendation #1.... 1920x1080 at 60Hz
Modeline................ "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
Timing recommendation #2.... 1280x720 at 60Hz
Modeline................ "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480 at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600 at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 720 at 60Hz - Sony
1280 x 1024 at 60Hz - VESA
1920 x 1080 at 60Hz - Sony

Raw EDID base
00: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4D D9 00 83 01 01 01 01
10: 20 11 01 03 80 A0 5A 78 0A 0D C9 A0 57 47 98 27
20: 12 48 4C 21 08 00 81 80 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
30: 01 01 01 01 01 01 02 3A 80 18 71 38 2D 40 58 2C
40: 45 00 40 84 63 00 00 1E 01 1D 00 72 51 D0 1E 20
50: 6E 28 55 00 40 84 63 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FC 00 53
60: 4F 4E 59 20 54 56 20 58 56 0A 20 20 00 00 00 FD
70: 00 3A 3E 0F 46 0F 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 95

Raw EDID extension (reserved)
00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Display adapter
Adapter description......... NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Adapter device ID........... 0x004510DE
Display settings............ 1920x1080, 32bpp

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post #285 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

what should you set cinamotion to: off, auto1, auto2

auto2

The "1.5 speed" issue was when the combination of Cinemotion = auto1 AND MotionFlow set to High.

Change either setting and the 1.3 effect goes away.

Try Cinemotion = auto2 ---> and Motionflow = Standard

.
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post #286 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY350Z View Post

My attempt at a dark picture. 46"

a

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #287 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:54 PM
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will try, thanks twilleyj
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post #288 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric_ucla View Post

I think another reason is that the Samsungs have reflective glassy screens whereas the Sonys do not. That is especially important if you aren't a hermit crab... I have a 50" Panny 700U plasma (advertised to have an "anti-reflective" screen) and it is sooooooo annoying to see reflections when you're watching TV. What's the point of superior black levels when all you see in the black is the room you're sitting in?? I will be the first to admit that the glassy screen gives an advantage on PQ, but I'd rather have a barely worse PQ (and I'm talking BARELY, as in, you'd never notice unless you had the TV's side-by-side to compare) and no reflection than the reverse. Just my opinion, but take it from a current glassy-screen owner the LCD is the way to go. Fortunately I'm within my return period and can return. I'm going with the 52XBR5 -- unfortunately I have to wait another 38 days!!!


My viewing room has blinds or is used primarily at night, so a glossy screen is not an issue, no more so than the CRT that I'm viewing now. I'm actually amazed at how much people are harping on the issue. I know folks with beautiful plasmas, and yes, they have glossy screens, so what? We've been dealing with glossy screens for 60 years. My bigger concern is with overall PQ, and that includes black levels. So from preliminary reports, the Samsung 81 is getting the edge. But the other item that I worry about is customer service, and Samsung is notoriously bad in that dept. Sony I think is marginally better to deal with.

It sounds like the Sony has great motion, but I havent' seen a lot of reports on how it performs gaming. This will be a big consideration for me, because I'm going to pick up a PS3, and thus join the ranks of BlueRay viewers.

Anyone illuminate the gaming aspect of the xbr4/5's?
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post #289 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:56 PM
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Doing some work up in PA today in the Chambersburg area, and I finally found a really nice CC with new model TV's on display. They had a Samsung 46" 71 right overtop a sony 46" xbr4. Here are my impressions of the two sets.....

First off with the HD signal to both sets. I messed with the settings on both to get the pictures the best I could get them to my eye. I had one off while i adjusted the other so as not to be distracted. I dont remember what the settings were, so you will have to bare with my dumbed down review of how the sets looked. I am not going to say that either of these sets blew me out of the water, but i can say that both looked just as good as any plasma they had set up in the store. The picture on the samsung in my opinion was a fraction better than the sony, but this with out a doubt was entirely due to the glossy screen. I have a feeling the glossy screen is going to sell a lot of people on this set, but they are going to be disapointed when they get it home into thier living room and the light hits it. They had it cleverly up semi high and angled down in an attempt (i think) to minimize the reflections in the screen, but you could still very clearly see them. The Sony looked remarkably sharp even up close with very minimal artifacting, and this was looking at it 12"-18" away.....from 5 feet or more it was flawless. I personaly did not see huge differnces when adjusting the cinamotion but it looked very good regardles. I did not notice any obvious clouding or spotlights during black screens or transitions, but i dont think the in-store enviornment is condusive to showing them. I honestly did not mess with the Samsung to much more because frankly i dont want a tv with that much glare, so i stuck basically to fiddling with the Sony.

Next, i switched to a SD channel. First of all it was stetching what was supposed to be a 4:3 screen out to 16:9 so i made the change to 4:3 but it was still stetched and just cutting the side of the picture off, never could figure out how to fix it so I just tinkered with the settings to get the best picture I could. After 5 minutes or so of adjustments i got what i would consider a damn good SD picture. Its was hard to concentrate on just this set with all the others around playing 720 content though. I was very pleased with the look of the SD channels once i adjusted the picture.

Now for the aggrivating part of it all and this could be (hopefully) ignorance on my part of how to save settings. Everytime I would switch between inputs, the settings would reset to factory defaults, this was very annoying. Secondly, the settings that looked best in HD, definately did not look the best for SD content. Thus, you would have to go through and make adjustments again. I DO NOT want to have to do this everytime i switch between SD and HD. Is there a place to save custom settings and just switch back and fourth? I plan to use a AVR so i will only be using the one HDMI input on the TV, so setting up each input with different settings will not apply to me. Please tell me I dont have to make all these changes everytime i switch between SD and HD channels. If they are going to give us 1976 different settings to adjust to tweak the picture, for gods sake allow us to save them as "profile 1", "profile 2", etc.

In conclusion, the TV looked fantastic in both HD and SD IMHO, as good as any Plasma in there. I just did not like the complexity of all the settings if they need to be adjusted routinely based on input signal. Obviously a PC is going to need different settings than a BD, which is going to need different settings than a PS3 or XBox. If my AVR is doing all the switching, and I am only using one input on the TV....how do I retain settings for each component I will be switching between? If there is a way to save settings, this TV is as good as on my wall as soon as the 52's hit the store!
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post #290 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

auto2

The "1.5 speed" issue was when the combination of Cinemotion = auto1 AND MotionFlow set to High.

Change either setting and the 1.3 effect goes away.

Try Cinemotion = auto2 ---> and Motionflow = Standard

Using a HQ HDMI cable seemed to help a bit too, does this make sense? It really did help, or seemed to have. Not Eliminate, just improve a bit.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #291 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

Again, DO NOT USE HDMI WITH SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA BOXES!

What's wrong with SA boxes and HDMI?

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post #292 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

What's wrong with SA boxes and HDMI?

It seems that some cable providers have known issues with the SA HD DVR and the HDMI port.

Here's a good place to start:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843

.
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post #293 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:16 PM
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yes, I would like to know also, what is wrong with SA boxes and hdmi
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post #294 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelowell View Post

My viewing room has blinds or is used primarily at night, so a glossy screen is not an issue, no more so than the CRT that I'm viewing now. I'm actually amazed at how much people are harping on the issue. I know folks with beautiful plasmas, and yes, they have glossy screens, so what? We've been dealing with glossy screens for 60 years. My bigger concern is with overall PQ, and that includes black levels. So from preliminary reports, the Samsung 81 is getting the edge. But the other item that I worry about is customer service, and Samsung is notoriously bad in that dept. Sony I think is marginally better to deal with.

It sounds like the Sony has great motion, but I havent' seen a lot of reports on how it performs gaming. This will be a big consideration for me, because I'm going to pick up a PS3, and thus join the ranks of BlueRay viewers.

Anyone illuminate the gaming aspect of the xbr4/5's?

You just don't get it. Once you've gone to a large HT Size panel and had no reflections or washout a PDP or highly reflective screen is a POS. Having owned both I'm telling you that the Panasonic was hopeless on a sunny day with 80% washout and don't dare try to view a dark movie or video game with something like FEAR with the sun streaming in the room. Because my ancestors rode a horse to work doesn't mean I stay on that buggy. Place a quality PDP in a light controlled room it can be great but get yourself used to having none of that crap competing with your HT experience and then switch back it truly sucks!

Please name a single Theater on the planet that designs or has a reflective screen where you view the audience up on the screen and the surroundings - same principle since the goal is a HT experience - we're no longer watching TV we're experiencing HT and not the inventory of the room or the elements outside the windows or the windows themselves. A mirror is not the goal of any home theater.

I had the best CRT Sony built beforehand and it was nothing compared to my 57" Sharp or the SXRD I owned and the Plasma has it's place with light controls like apt's or trailors/basements dedicated media rooms not southern exposures with tall windows - the SUN wins hands down - not even the mightiest KURO will win the battle against the SUN for anyone that enjoys daytime NCAA/NFL Football and movies and darkened video games. If you want something competing fine but when was the last time you went to any movie theater and had a single reflection up on the screen to compete with the immersive experience - NONE - even 60 years ago! If you built a quality HT with FP you'd also have a goal of ZERO reflections!

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #295 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

yes, I would like to know also, what is wrong with SA boxes and hdmi

Well I havent read anything about it, jut personal experience. I have had 5 SA 8300HD boxes since they came out, and all were the same. The Picture quality through HDMI stinks, plain and simple. If you have one, remove the HDMI and replace it with Component cables. You will find there is a 100% improvement on PQ. Thats all I know.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #296 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:32 PM
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Good news: I have decided this will most likely be the set for me.

Bad news: Wish I could have made this decision a few days ago.
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post #297 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

I am sorry,
this is stored data from registry not from the set. You have to be on line. Could you please fix it?

I don't have a wireless card that works with Vista 64bit that I can have the PC online when I do it. Sorry

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post #298 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:43 PM
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bought a 40xbr4 today at cc to try it out. ive had a 40v3000 for a couple weeks now and wanted to compare the two and keep the one i liked more. well my v3000 had no clouding at all. the xbr4 i got was covered with them. and i played around with the motion enhancement for a couple hours. i went back and forth between the two lcds and saw 0 difference in motion scenes. the only way motion enhancement was noticeable was when i set cinemotion to auto 1 then it gave that 1.5x speed effect people here mentioned. this xbr is going back to the store tomorrow definitely not worth the 700 dollar price difference. i can now be happy with my v3000
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post #299 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

Well I havent read anything about it, jut personal experience. I have had 5 SA 8300HD boxes since they came out, and all were the same. The Picture quality through HDMI stinks, plain and simple. If you have one, remove the HDMI and replace it with Component cables. You will find there is a 100% improvement on PQ. Thats all I know.

Hey gordong11, if you have some cool custom settings with your YSP 800, I would appreciate it if you could share it with me

P.S. I will be waiting for the price of the XBR5 to come down quite a bit and I will then go for the 52" version. I am quite happy with my two Sammy sets for now, but boy, the XBR4/5 images look so spectacular. Also waiting to get a definitive "no more clouding" feedback from current and future owners.

Samsung: 52" 850 / 46" 61 / 40" 61 / PS3 / BD-P1500 / A3 HD-DVD / Format Neutral
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post #300 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

Well I havent read anything about it, jut personal experience. I have had 5 SA 8300HD boxes since they came out, and all were the same. The Picture quality through HDMI stinks, plain and simple. If you have one, remove the HDMI and replace it with Component cables. You will find there is a 100% improvement on PQ. Thats all I know.


There can be hassles with the HDMI's associated HDCP (Copy Protection) handshake between the TV and the 8300. Cable companies usually avoid this by sticking to component. But, give it (HDMI) a try. Some people have it work OK...most don't.

Also, did you change the DVR set to output: Auto DVI/HDMI?

Go to the extended "Settings" (hit the button on the remote twice) and make sure the "Dolby Digital" sound output is selected. Chances are it's set to "HDMI".

Follow the "fix" post listed elsewhere:
Using component cables plug it up, set Format to Passthru. While EVERYTHING is still on, plug in HDMI and unplug the Component.

Works after that, just fine...for some people.

If not, I'd then suggest taking your problem to the relevant OS-specific 8300HD thread:

For SARA Software

For Passport Software

.
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