Official Sony XBR4/5 Owners Thread(NO PRICE TALK) - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisHeirness23 View Post

Buying a $5 HDMI cable is not a good idea. I am not saying that Monster Cables are the best and have FAR superior video/audio quality, but at least the build quality is on par.

There is some truth in that: The only thing one should look for in digital cables (be it TOSLink, coax or HDMI) is the mechanical quality of the cable and the plugs. Always go for a cable with solid plugs and a thick, smooth rubber coating as those will last for quite some time.

Signal quality is NOT an issue with digital cables as long as you don't run a non-optical cable next to a high voltage conduit. The bits either get through or they don't - you will surely not see "subtle color differences" or "better black levels" when using extremely expensive digital cables. The jury may still be out on the question of sound being improved by expensive analog cables, but for digital connections the verdict is quite obvious for anyone with a basic understanding of the technology involved.
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post #632 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappes View Post

There is some truth in that: The only thing one should look for in digital cables (be it TOSLink, coax or HDMI) is the mechanical quality of the cable and the plugs. Always go for a cable with solid plugs and a thick, smooth rubber coating as those will last for quite some time.

Signal quality is NOT an issue with digital cables as long as you don't run a non-optical cable next to a high voltage conduit. The bits either get through or they don't - you will surely not see "subtle color differences" or "better black levels" when using extremely expensive digital cables. The jury may still be out on the question of sound being improved by expensive analog cables, but for digital connections the verdict is quite obvious for anyone with a basic understanding of the technology involved.

In the pro audio world, we just buy professional (Canare, Mogami, et al.) cable in bulk (at ≈30¢/ft.), buy ends, and make our own cables. Whatever length you want. Sadly, Monster Cable bait the consumer world with their same over-pricing antics even in the musician realm.
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post #633 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Although still being tweaked, here's my settings (blacks are good and any clouding issues gone)...

VIDEO:
Motion Enhancer Std.
CineMotion Auto2

GENERAL:
Power Saving Low
Light Sensor Off

Thanks,
So you vote for 60Hz. Please comment why you do not like 120Hz?
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post #634 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 06:16 AM
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Can anyone explain the diff b/n the CineMotion Auto1 and Auto2 ?
Thanks !
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post #635 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisHeirness23 View Post

Buying a $5 HDMI cable is not a good idea. I am not saying that Monster Cables are the best and have FAR superior video/audio quality, but at least the build quality is on par. A $5 cable will most likely need to be replaced a few times, where the Monster (or any good quality cables) will not. Also, if you purchase any of the Monster 1000 series cables, they GUARANTEE that the cables will be future proof. In other words, if the cables cannot handle a particular resolution, then Monster will replace it for FREE!

I guess the same analogy can be made about motor oil. Will purchasing the most expensive motor oil really increase performance? Maybe, but at least you know that the more expensive oil has a longer lifetime and doesn't have to be replaced as often.

I'm confused. Most people here say that monoprice.com cables are fine, and the expensive cables available in brick and mortar stores are a total ripoff. (I remember when I used to work at BBUY, the employee cost on a $50 monster cable was about $17, so the markup is HUGE!)

What's the general consensus, cheap cables from monoprice.com or expensive cables?

Monoprice.com has the following $21 cable which seems to be a good match for the new XBR4/5 with HDMI 1.3...

"HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified Cable (24AWG) - 6ft (Gold Plated)"

what do you think? Is there a difference between HDMI 1.3 and 1.3a?
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post #636 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 06:35 AM
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Monoprice cables are fine, I've used them with no issues. There is no difference between a well made $20 cable and a rip off $300 one. Its digital, either it transports the data with no packet loss or it doesn't. No point paying 5X for a cable that meets the same standards as a cheaper one.

Having said that the $5 cables have terrible packet loss which results in sparkles.
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post #637 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 06:50 AM
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I've never had any problems with monoprice hdmi or dvi cables, and I did't purchase the 1.3 version either. The only cable that has given me a problem was a best buy 6 footer which the guy gave me for free with my dvd player and told me in advance that it was crap. The cheap cable looks perfect one day and the next the tv can't find the signal. (this was true with my xbr4 as well as my 32 inch lcd)

I'm still worried about the auto backlight though. There is a reviewer on amazon.com that mentions the same issue during end credits, but says it's easy to solve. - (not sure it's so easy) I did see the problem again with my non sony dvd player but to a lesser degree during the opening of lotr.

Another thing I've noticed is the fan noise. (although slight) Should this tv be completely silent, or is it normal to hear a slight humming? It's nothing compared to my lcd projector but definitely noticeable compared to my 32" which is silent. Large LCDs are really new to me, so I might be nitpicking.
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post #638 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post


Another thing I've noticed is the fan noise. (although slight) Should this tv be completely silent, or is it normal to hear a slight humming? It's nothing compared to my lcd projector but definitely noticeable compared to my 32" which is silent. Large LCDs are really new to me, so I might be nitpicking.

Fan Noise?
Which XBR4 are you talking about?

How's the fan noise on the 52XBR4?

.
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post #639 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 07:45 AM
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I just subscribed to Comcast HD (can't get DirectTV due to very tall Oaks on south side) and connected the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4250HDC to the HDMI interface on my XBR4. Now when I turn on the TV, I must select INPUT and HDMI 1 to display the picture. Does anyone have a work around so I don't have to go through these extra steps. It is driving my wife nuts and therefore me. Of course the Digital with HD service I subscribed to isn't working. The signal is not getting through to the cable box and they must send someone out to check it out. BTW, I did get the Pittsburgh/Eagles game in HD and it looked fantastic.
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post #640 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:


So you vote for 60Hz. Please comment why you do not like 120Hz?

It's not that I don't like 120Hz. It's just that, so far, I haven't really noticed a difference between 60 or 120Hz yet.
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post #641 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 07:48 AM
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Ive had my 46" XBR4 for about a week. I am currently using the STANDARD setting for the tv. I have noticed when watching some movies when the movies have a slow frame, the picture looks clear. but i was watching some movies over the weekend and when the frame is moving the picture get a little blurry.

Can someone tell me if its the settings?

I watched the movie 300 and noticed it. I put the motion enhancer to high and standard. didnt seem to change.
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post #642 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

It's not that I don't like 120Hz. It's just that, so far, I haven't really noticed a difference between 60 or 120Hz yet.

Honestly, outside of the built in demos I don't notice anything either. My Sharp D92, Tosh LX177, and XBR4 seem plenty fast with or without it enabled.

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post #643 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 08:04 AM
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I've finally gotten my 46xbr4 setup and running- I'm pushing:

Atlanta Scientific HD box w/ HDMI to XBR4
PS3 w/ HDMI to XBR4
Optical out on both to receiver (6 year old Kenwood- shopping for an Onkyo)

My experiences on HD cable, BlueRay and SD cable have been jaw-dropping.
I'm using Coma's settings, but will try Speed08's when I get home today.

In both daytime viewing and nighttime viewing, I've experienced NO clouding whatsoever. I'm not a videophile, but I know what clouds and artifacting look like. I also know that I haven't seen either of them! Praise be.

Anywho, I think I was most blown away by the PQ in LOTR: ROTK on TNT HD last night. I just COULD NOT BELIEVE how incredible it looked on this set...until I popped Casino Royale into the PS3 BD... the detail, color and crispness of this set absolutely pound anything I've seen before- and my buddies have some nice rigs. Can't wait to watch some college FB on ESPN HD!
-Oh, and I taped the Panthers pre-season game the other night just to see how it would look on HD, and I was not disappointed. Can't wait to see the feed from Monday Night Football tonight! I finally have a good reason for watching pre-season ball!

I'll report on the PS3 performance regarding Rainbow Six: Vegas and NCAA 2008 if anyone would like- respond and I'll be happy to.

I guess I sound like an apologist, but these are my findings and my experiences. If you're going to be an apologist, why not do it on this thread? LOL.

I'll try and post pics as well.

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post #644 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 08:29 AM
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I have a question about the upscaling. Does this TV really upscale everything to 1080p? The reason I am asking is because I'm considering getting a Onkyo SR705. That receiver upscales all analog signals to 720p over HDMI. I can buy a more expensive receiver that will upscale to 1080p, but is it even necessary is the TV does it?

Also, has anyone had any lag issues when playing Guitar Hero 2?
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post #645 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Those screen shots are very nice. These units are looking sweet !! Thank god they dumped the grey bezel.

Thanks for the order guys. It's been a long day coming and your price and service made it that much easier. Now the true wait begins.

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post #646 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 08:45 AM
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After reading all of this forum, everyone has a different opinion or experience regarding these settings.

Is there really a difference when chosing different settings?

I am a total idiot when it comes to these things. I guess my brain can't wrap around the concept or I just don't know what to look for. Right now, I am trying to get the colors and contrast as true to life as possible.

Anyway, could someone help me with settings for motion enhancer and cinemotion?

I have the 40XBR4. I only use two inputs....

I have HD Cable from Time Warner with a Scientific Atlantic box
And I have a Oppo 981-HD DVD Player that upconverts to 1080p.

Would someone please suggest which settings for Motion Enhancer and CineMotion I should set for these inputs?

Thanks!!!
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post #647 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanGu View Post

Woah, is the regular 360 (not elite) able to do 1080p over component?

Has it always been able to and just needed the right tv? And so, now with xbr4, it can do 1080p over component?

I always thought it was VGA or HDMI only.

Anyone else to confirm if regular Xbox 360 (not elite) can do 1080p over component with the xbr4?
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post #648 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanGu View Post

Anyone else to confirm if regular Xbox 360 (not elite) can do 1080p over component with the xbr4?

yes


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post #649 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 09:41 AM
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Just in case anyone is interested... (this is not a review of the xbr's, but rather an explanation of how my xbr decision has been further solidified)

As I had said before, I had purchased a 50" Panny pz700u plasma (full 1080p), which had amazing PQ but the glare was intolerable. So, I made the decision to send it back and await the availability of the 52XBR5. In the meantime, however, I thought it might make sense to give the Panny px77u a shot. If you haven't heard about this TV, it is essentially the same as the px75u (a good quality Panny plasma with 720p native resolution), but with an anti-glare screen. Well, I got this delivered over the weekend, and I must make a couple observations. First, the anti-glare screen does make a significant improvement over the glassy screen of the 700u, but I don't think it quite reaches the non-reflectiveness of LCD matte screens. Also, whoever says the difference between 720p and 1080p isn't noticeable at 50" is crazy -- the first thing my wife said when they switched the 700u out and replaced it with the 77u was "nice, but not as crisp". And later, "it's kinda blurry". Believe me, this was not a settings issue, but rather the noticeable difference of 720p v. 1080p... And we sit 12 feet away!! To me, the PQ was decent, and the price about half of what my discounted XBR5 price will be, but anything over a grand and I simply must have the BEST, and sadly the 77u was not it.

...And so it was, his decision to go with the XBR5 was firmly written in stone.

Mav, I have pics so you can see both sets (i.e. 700u and 77u) -- just need to post them now.
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post #650 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackScott View Post

I have a question about the upscaling. Does this TV really upscale everything to 1080p? The reason I am asking is because I'm considering getting a Onkyo SR705. That receiver upscales all analog signals to 720p over HDMI. I can buy a more expensive receiver that will upscale to 1080p, but is it even necessary is the TV does it?

The Reon-VX HQV scaler in the ONKYO TX-SR875 and TX-NR905 is better than the Faroudja found in their other receivers. If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in this thread is the mention of the XBR4 using a Faroudja scaler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleRunt View Post

Would someone please suggest which settings for Motion Enhancer and CineMotion I should set for these inputs?

This might be a bit of a personal preference thing. Technically, anything originally shot at 24 fps but broadcast at 29.97 fps "should" have CineMotion on (it's just reverse 3:2 pulldown, so you won't need it for 24 fps Blu-ray). For the true purist, never use Motionflow for anything. Even though it can be a "HowTF?" experience, you're still seeing frames that you were never intended to see. And you know, it's cool and all, but [120 Hz] might look unnatural for live footage because we don't perceive that sort of "refreshing" in our entire field of vision. For video games, I think it looks awesome (doesn't mean it'll play awesome). Keep in mind game developers these days strive to keep their framerates at 60, so it (High/Auto1) kind of eerily "fixes" games that don't.

Can't say I've ever suffered from disgusting motion blur with Motionflow off, so I never found it to be a necessity, but I leave it on High unless I'm watching a movie or playing a game.
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post #651 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 12:09 PM
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z'Alai,

The Onkyo TX-SR705 does not use the Reon-VX HQV scaler, it uses the Faroudja "Edge" (it's stamped on the front faceplate) which I believe is not the top scaler that Faroudja produces.

Later...
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post #652 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z'Alai View Post

The Reon-VX HQV scaler in the ONKYO TX-SR705 (and higher) is better than the Faroudja found in their lower series. If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in this thread is the mention of the XBR4 using a Faroudja scaler.

This might be a bit of a personal preference thing. Technically, anything originally shot at 24 fps but broadcast at 29.97 fps "should" have CineMotion on (it's just reverse 3:2 pulldown, so you won't need it for 24 fps Blu-ray). For the true purist, never use Motionflow for anything. Even though it can be a "HowTF?" experience, you're still seeing frames that you were never intended to see. And you know, it's cool and all, but [120 Hz] might look unnatural for live footage because we don't perceive that sort of "refreshing" in our entire field of vision. For video games, I think it looks awesome (doesn't mean it'll play awesome). Keep in mind game developers these days strive to keep their framerates at 60.

Can't say I've ever suffered from disgusting motion blur with Motionflow off, so I never found it to be a necessity. I leave it on High unless I'm watching a movie or playing a game.

Hmmm! If MotionFlow is BS why anyone would pay big extra $$$ for XBR4/5? W3000 has most of xbr's features. except Motionflow and cost much less.
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post #653 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 12:58 PM
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Howdy. I'm new to this thread. I've read the last few pages looking for anyone who might have written about the 32" XBR4, and did a thread search, but couldn't find any mentions.

Anyone out there have any experience with or thoughts on the 32 XBR4? I know most of you have a 40 + set, but we already have a 50 Pio and don't have room for anything bigger than the 32. It will basically be used for playing Halo3 on Xbox 360.

Thanks.
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post #654 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:05 PM
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Are these setting options in the picture setup? Because i dont see them at all in my setup.. i see Motion enhancer in the options, but ive look for Cinemotion and cat find it. Please someone let me know..

VIDEO:
Motion Enhancer Std.
CineMotion Auto2

GENERAL:
Power Saving Low
Light Sensor Off
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post #655 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:11 PM
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I'm not an expert for sure, but my understanding is that 120Hz can't be disabled/enabled. It exists and enables 60/30/24p to be displayed smoothly.

Motion enhancement and some other SW tweaks can be adjusted. E.g. depending on vendor to insert black (blank?) frames or to insert interpolated frames in place of the missing frames.

It's hard to get clear info on results but from what I've read the 120Hz is helping due to it's ability to handle 24p. But the SW tweaks on top of that are a mixed bag.

It's a subject I've been keenly interested in since the 120Hz sets are at a premium in price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Honestly, outside of the built in demos I don't notice anything either. My Sharp D92, Tosh LX177, and XBR4 seem plenty fast with or without it enabled.

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post #656 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:17 PM
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Is there an online version of the manual available anywhere?
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post #657 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:23 PM
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post #658 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyws6 View Post

Are these setting options in the picture setup? Because i dont see them at all in my setup.. i see Motion enhancer in the options, but ive look for Cinemotion and cat find it. Please someone let me know..

VIDEO:
Motion Enhancer Std.
CineMotion Auto2

GENERAL:
Power Saving Low
Light Sensor Off

Click on Home button, then scroll to the left, you'll find more options there.
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post #659 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadfun View Post

I'm not an expert for sure, but my understanding is that 120Hz can't be disabled/enabled. It exists and enables 60/30/24p to be displayed smoothly.

Motion enhancement and some other SW tweaks can be adjusted. E.g. depending on vendor to insert black (blank?) frames or to insert interpolated frames in place of the missing frames.

It's hard to get clear info on results but from what I've read the 120Hz is helping due to it's ability to handle 24p. But the SW tweaks on top of that are a mixed bag.

It's a subject I've been keenly interested in since the 120Hz sets are at a premium in price.

So far nobody has reported that Motionflow 120 Hz in any extend affected p24.
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post #660 of 11990 Old 08-27-2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

Fan Noise?
Which XBR4 are you talking about?

How's the fan noise on the 52XBR4?

46 inch. There is definitely a hum, but since I've never owned such a large lcd tv, I'm not sure if it's normal to hear a hum.

I'm taking a break from the calibrating/motion enchancing/ backlighting issues tonight. Going to just enjoy watching. I'll nitpick more later.
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