Official Sony XBR4/5 Owners Thread(NO PRICE TALK) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prchohan View Post

Guys, a quick question about XBR4: Is firmware update a possibility on this TV thru USB/some other connection, in case it becomes available?

Thanks.

Yes it has a USB port on the back for that.

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Old 08-28-2007, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfny View Post

Sony is the only one with a full 10 bit LCD (the others just have 10bit processing and 8bit glass).

The Toshiba LX177 has 14 bit processing and 10 bit glass.

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Old 08-28-2007, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

The Toshiba LX177 has 14 bit processing and 10 bit glass.

Sorry about that. You are right it has "14 bit internal processing with 12bit output" and "LCD with 10bit video output" as quoted from their site. At least I was right about the Samsung! Thanks!!
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:32 PM
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I recently ordered a 46XBR4, but before I go to pick it up, do any current owners have dimensions on the box it came in? I need to know what sort of vehicle I'll need to be able to transport it properly.
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides View Post

I recently ordered a 46XBR4, but before I go to pick it up, do any current owners have dimensions on the box it came in? I need to know what sort of vehicle I'll need to be able to transport it properly.

54¾"×36"×14½"
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Old 08-28-2007, 06:45 PM
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Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2007, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

The Toshiba LX177 has 14 bit processing and 10 bit glass.

and sammy 71 is 10/10

Toshiba gets their glass from Sammy

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Old 08-28-2007, 06:58 PM
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This is my biggest concern. Is the new "5" Series going to have the Clouding Issues that the XBR2/3 have? If any of you goto yahoo or google and type "XBR2 AVSForum Clouding", it will take you straight to the forum with a poll included. I own a 46XBR2 and am very disgusted that SONY wouldnt take care of this issue. You cant sell the item to any regular Joe off the street after explaining the problems these panels have had. They will try to knock you down on the price and whine more when they get home with your TV in which they purchased from you.

Now, the XBR2/3's were only a 7,000:1 Dynamic Contrast compared to the new XBR5's 18,000:1 which in theory will have more problems. Does anyone know if SONY/SAMMY have taken care of this issue or if the problem is simply going to progress even further with the improved Contrast Ratio?

Brent

Edit: Nevermind...I realize now that the clouding issue is just as severe as it ever was. It is Very noticable on the very first page in this thread from the first image of the TV. Oh well, maybe they will fix the XBR6/7? Maybe it will be LCoS that comes through.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:18 PM
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I should clarify. By glass I meant gloss vs matte. From the last generation it seemed that people thought sony's did a good job with SD as they have a decent processor in them, where as the samsungs had a pretty bad processor.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

and sammy 71 is 10/10

Toshiba gets their glass from Sammy

Where do you get this info? According to this article they are not listed with Samsung - I believe they are using mostly Philips - LPL and AUO.

According to DisplaySearch, the following are the top seven LCD TV module makers and a list of their top five customers.

LPL - Phillips, LGE, Panasonic, Toshiba, Amtran.
Samsung - Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, JVC, Sanyo
AUO - Samsung, Philips, Toshiba, Panasonic, LGE
CMO - Funai, Xoceco, Westinghouse, Proview, TTE
Sharp - Sharp, Philips, JVC, Mitsubishi, Panasonic
CPT - Philips, Funai, Konka, Samsung, TPV
QDI - Sharp, Philips

From HDTVExpert:

Incidentally, this is the first time I’ve seen a company offer both a 46-inch and a 47-inch product in the same line. Given that Toshiba OEMs their LCD glass (and possibly much of the TV, too), that’s a sure sign that more than one LCD fabber is being sourced.

I find it hard to believe that Samsung and Sony have problems keeping up their own supplies in their partnership that they would add another in the mix when Sony has been seeking an additional partner in Asia the past year to expand capacity. Not saying your wrong - just doesn't seem likely it's Samsung.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:56 PM
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I was re-reading the specifications for the 40XBR4 on Sony's website and I noticed that they changed the wording to specifically state that the 3:2 pulldown process is bypassed with 24fps sources. This would indicate that it's directly scaled to 120fps wouldn't it? Please feel free to comment because this whole subject confuses me.......

Motionflow™ 120 Hz with Full HD high frame rate capability
Taking motion performance to the next level requires innovation and expertise. Enter Sony's Motionflow™ High Frame Rate technology. Motionflow™ detects the incoming video signal and applies the appropriate processing for optimum motion reproduction. Taking full advantage of film sourced 24fps encoded content available on DVD and Blu-ray Disc, Motionflow™ eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown and delivers smooth, judder free video, faithfully preserving the integrity of the original film. When 60fps content is detected, Motionflow™ doubles the amount of frames and uses real-time calculation to create a new level of natural motion reproduction. You'll experience movies and sports with a greater sense of realism than ever before.

First post has been updated by bpmurr - Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfny View Post

I was re-reading the specifications for the 40XBR4 on Sony's website and I noticed that they changed the wording to specifically state that the 3:2 pulldown process is bypassed with 24fps sources. This would indicate that it's directly scaled to 120fps wouldn't it? Please feel free to comment because this whole subject confuses me.......

Motionflow 120 Hz with Full HD high frame rate capability
Taking motion performance to the next level requires innovation and expertise. Enter Sony's Motionflow High Frame Rate technology. Motionflow detects the incoming video signal and applies the appropriate processing for optimum motion reproduction. Taking full advantage of film sourced 24fps encoded content available on DVD and Blu-ray Disc, Motionflow eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown and delivers smooth, judder free video, faithfully preserving the integrity of the original film. When 60fps content is detected, Motionflow doubles the amount of frames and uses real-time calculation to create a new level of natural motion reproduction. You'll experience movies and sports with a greater sense of realism than ever before.

No, it means that p24 is displayed w/o any pulldown (or 1:1 if you insist) or doubling, tripling, etc., as row p24.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

I believe the glass is the same for the Toshiba lx177, Samsung 71, and XBR4,,,,,am I wrong?

They are all supposed to be in a joint venture, however all there new models were released at different times, not to mention there are so many models out there who know's what is what.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

and sammy 71 is 10/10

Toshiba gets their glass from Sammy

Please show me a pixel's photo for Toshiba to backup you statement. The pixel pattern for Sony/Sammy latest TV looks like this (see attached photo). This is the most sophisticated structure comprised from 50K elements for typical FHDTV.
LL
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

No, it means that p24 is displayed w/o any pulldown (or 1:1 if you insist) or doubling, tripling, etc., as row p24.

Is this not good news? I didnt think there were any other confirmed sets on the market that do this type of direct scaling. They all use the 3:2 pulldown process before scaling to 60fps or 120fps. It seems to me that less motion artifacts would be introduced if this intermediate step is eliminated?
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

I believe the glass is the same for the Toshiba lx177, Samsung 71, and XBR4,,,,,am I wrong?

What I've read is the Sony panel is made to their specs in a Samsung/Sony plant that is owned and shared by both. Sony specs are its own.

These are just my opinions.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfny View Post

Is this not good news? I didnt think there were any other confirmed sets on the market that do this type of direct scaling. They all use the 3:2 pulldown process before scaling to 120fps. It seems to me that less motion artifacts would be introduced if this intermediate step is eliminated?

It looks good BTW, really GOOD!
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gable74 View Post

so who has some shots of these suckers hooked to a PC? Any Pics?

I'd also love to see some pictures of a PC hookup (or any other pictures really )
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

What I've read is the Sony panel is made to their specs in a Samsung/Sony plant that is owned and shared by both. Sony specs are its own.

I would not mind to see these specs, because if you carefully study pixels patterns for Sony and Sammy LCD glasses they look identical under the microscope.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorcut View Post

My question is, are there any settings to even out the all black image? I think I can live with this slight defect, but I'd love to remove it if I can. Here are my current custom settings (a tweaking of a fellow forum member's calibrations):

Check the other xbr4/5 calibration thread. i posted my updated settings there and it did get rid of the slight clouding i had. would guess it would depend on how bad your clouding is.
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Where do you get this info? According to this article they are not listed with Samsung - I believe they are using mostly Philips - LPL and AUO.

According to DisplaySearch, the following are the top seven LCD TV module makers and a list of their top five customers.

LPL - Phillips, LGE, Panasonic, Toshiba, Amtran.
Samsung - Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, JVC, Sanyo
AUO - Samsung, Philips, Toshiba, Panasonic, LGE
CMO - Funai, Xoceco, Westinghouse, Proview, TTE
Sharp - Sharp, Philips, JVC, Mitsubishi, Panasonic
CPT - Philips, Funai, Konka, Samsung, TPV
QDI - Sharp, Philips

From HDTVExpert:

Incidentally, this is the first time I've seen a company offer both a 46-inch and a 47-inch product in the same line. Given that Toshiba OEMs their LCD glass (and possibly much of the TV, too), that's a sure sign that more than one LCD fabber is being sourced.

I find it hard to believe that Samsung and Sony have problems keeping up their own supplies in their partnership that they would add another in the mix when Sony has been seeking an additional partner in Asia the past year to expand capacity. Not saying your wrong - just doesn't seem likely it's Samsung.

Got the info from Richard in the Toshiba thread. He was the one that did the shootout. He had at least one Toshiba person there, and was told the glass came from Samsung for the 46" and above. I think we have determined (but not for sure) that the 42 comes from LG/Phillips.

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Old 08-28-2007, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

What I've read is the Sony panel is made to their specs in a Samsung/Sony plant that is owned and shared by both. Sony specs are its own.

Ok, that is what I was trying to find out.

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Old 08-28-2007, 09:34 PM
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I just returned from CC and had my first look at the 52XBR4 fed by a BDP-S300. I must say, I was impressed! I took along a couple of SD DVDs to see what they would look like. I included my own Test Pattern DVD that I created. I had tried this earlier on a Sammy LN-T4665 and was not impressed. The Sony XBR4 gave the best SD PQ I have ever seen on a HD TV. The SD upscaling of the Blu Ray player is near perfect. The sharpness and gray scale were right on. Being this was in a store and the picture was set to Dynamic mode, there was some push on all three primary colors and their complements although they seemed equally distributed. The gray scale was very linear but seemed to have a slight amount of crush below 5% intensity. Calibration would cure the chroma push and black crush, no doubt. When we put in a SD DVD of Alien CE, the details in the dark scenes really popped. The PQ came close to BD quality. I feel comfortable now that my library of 400+ SD DVDs won't go the way of VHS. It was a given that BD disks would look good on the combo and they did not disappoint, simply beautiful!
Guess what I'm getting for Christmas.

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Old 08-28-2007, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfny View Post

I was re-reading the specifications for the 40XBR4 on Sony's website and I noticed that they changed the wording to specifically state that the 3:2 pulldown process is bypassed with 24fps sources. This would indicate that it's directly scaled to 120fps wouldn't it? Please feel free to comment because this whole subject confuses me.......

Motionflow 120 Hz with Full HD high frame rate capability
Taking motion performance to the next level requires innovation and expertise. Enter Sony's Motionflow High Frame Rate technology. Motionflow detects the incoming video signal and applies the appropriate processing for optimum motion reproduction. Taking full advantage of film sourced 24fps encoded content available on DVD and Blu-ray Disc, Motionflow eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown and delivers smooth, judder free video, faithfully preserving the integrity of the original film. When 60fps content is detected, Motionflow doubles the amount of frames and uses real-time calculation to create a new level of natural motion reproduction. You'll experience movies and sports with a greater sense of realism than ever before.

First post has been updated by bpmurr - Thanks!

I wonder how is the V3000 and W3000 handling 24p native signal since it does not have MotionFlow and not 120 Hz set. Does it mean it still does 3:2 pulldown?
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

Please show me a pixel's photo for Toshiba to backup you statement. The pixel pattern for Sony/Sammy latest TV looks like this (see attached photo). This is the most sophisticated structure comprised from 50K elements for typical FHDTV.

lol, I have no idea where to find that. I can only tell you what I told Westa. The Dealer who did the shootout had a representative from Toshiba there. He said it came from Samsung on the 46" and above. Don't get me wrong, I want to pan this green machine off on the first person who will buy it, and then buy either the Sony or the Sammy, but that is a whole other story.

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Old 08-28-2007, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

lol, I have no idea where to find that. I can only tell you what I told Westa. The Dealer who did the shootout had a representative from Toshiba there. He said it came from Samsung on the 46" and above. Don't get me wrong, I want to pan this green machine off on the first person who will buy it, and then buy either the Sony or the Sammy, but that is a whole other story.

Hey buddy, I am sorry to hear that you are still having issues with Toshiba, so I will not mention it again, as I know that it must be hurtful for you.

In any case, I wrote some more reviews on the 71 vs XBR4:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=315

Best of luck, Studdad

Samsung: 52" 850 / 46" 61 / 40" 61 / PS3 / BD-P1500 / A3 HD-DVD / Format Neutral
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

lol, I have no idea where to find that. I can only tell you what I told Westa. The Dealer who did the shootout had a representative from Toshiba there. He said it came from Samsung on the 46" and above. Don't get me wrong, I want to pan this green machine off on the first person who will buy it, and then buy either the Sony or the Sammy, but that is a whole other story.

I'm not trying to contradict as much as clarify - Samsung has switched all it's 57" glass to 81 series LED LCD - can the same glass be used for reg backlit? They aren't building a 71 series in the 57" and I'd thought Sony would be getting production on 57" also in the future. BTW Sharp has only discontinued 57" in N. America - it's still being produced in Asia. I'd thought I read that Chei Mei would be coming out with a 57" over a year ago. I would guess Toshiba doesn't want us to know but somewhere in Digitimes it's most likely to be found. Does the Toshiba have the Super Clear Panel?

All I've got to say is we have some great choices arriving and if only they'd build them bigger and priced like an SXRD instead of a BMW. AKA 70" LCD.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

All I've got to say is we have some great choices arriving and if only they'd build them bigger and priced like an SXRD instead of a BMW. AKA 70" LCD.

Ah, I like your reference pointing to the BMW as king of precision Automotives. Atleast I believe that's what you mean more than the price alone.
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:41 PM
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I checked out a 40" XBR4 at CC this evening. It was playing Night at the Museum from a BD source. I'm not sure if it was this particular disc, but the display seems to be so good that the images start to look cheap. It should have looked like a film, and did on other sets nearby, but the image on the XBR4 had the feel of a soap opera. Harsh lighting, bad sets. There was no judder, and it was highly apparent on other sets, but the motion was so smooth and blurless that it lost its filmic quality.

After standing there puzzled for a few minutes another group of guys came up to look at the set and expressed pretty much the same opinion. Has anyone else seen this? Is it just this particular film?
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone noticed horizontal bands caused by the backlight on their 46XBR4? bplewis24 tested his 40XBR4 and didn't notice anything. I'm trying to figure out if it's just my set or all 46" sets what do this. It's pretty noticeable on an image that pans from top to bottom or a solid background like a medium to dark grey. When you move the backlight setting up and down the bands move accordingly.

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