Official Sony XBR4/5 Owners Thread(NO PRICE TALK) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 10:39 PM
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Ok. Some clouding testing (or should I say camera testing on my 46XBR4):

Using Coma's settings but with picture = 55 and not 72 (see other thread on calibration) and using 480i SD-DVD as input:

Picture 1 (ISO 50, 0.8 Sec, f5.0):



Picture 2 Same as before (ISO 50, 0.8 Sec, f5.0) but now with powersave on the XBR = high:


Thoughts???
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post #182 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried to see if my XBR4 would take a 120Hz input like the Sammy 4671 but it only would accept 60Hz and below. I am using a Geforce 6800GT with the latest NVIDIA drivers for Vista.

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post #183 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok here is the deal with the Motionflow 1.5x playback effect people are seeing. If Cinemotion reverse 3:2 pulldown is set to Auto1 and Motionflow is set to Standard or High it will look funny. If you turn Cinemotion off or to Auto2 Motionflow looks natural in both Standard and High. Try it yourself and see what I'm talking about.

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post #184 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-eM View Post

I know a lot of you on here comparing the XBR4 to the 71. I posted this in the 71 thread and figured it might be a help to some who are in debate on which to pull the trigger on.

Hope this can help.

Alright first thing in the morning when i went into work i checked if we got the 71 series. Sure enough we had 1 40" and 2 46" (we already had a 52).

We also got the 46 XBR4. Made some room for them in the store and put them side by side.

My impressions from watching these both sets from 11:30 till 5.

First off the default settings on the XBR are much better than the 71. At first i thought ohh man the 71 doesn't look good next to it. They both were on Dynamic and Vivid respectfully.

Then i started to calibrate both of them. I matched up both of them to the identical settings in Standard with the backlight at 5 for both. They both produced the same image. I grabbed a bunch of people from the store and manager and they all agree they both look about the same.

As far as what i see is that the 71 definitely adds more of a 3D look. I strongly disagree that the XBR looks 3D at all. We have a 40" XBR4 connected to a Blu-Ray all day for the past week or so and it does NOT look 3D. Don
t get me wrong it looks amazing but even the 65 has more of a 3D effect than the XBR's. If you put in Pirates in the main menu the Skull and Fire look completely 3D on the 65 and 71. I truly believe this is the work of the Gloss screen. Go see for yourself how fire looks on the Samsungs compared to the Sony. As far as blacks are concerned they look slight better on the 71. You would get more detail on the 71 which surprised me. I was thinking the opposite was going to happen but when i put the 40" next to the 65 the 65 has more detail which is odd because compared to any other Sony you get much more of a natural picture and skin tones.

Honestly I'm going with a 4071 for myself. Don't get me wrong the Sony looks good but i Love the design of the Samsung and the blue light in the middle thats touch for power on/off looks very slick.

Enjoy your blue light Jay.
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post #185 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Ok. Some clouding testing (or should I say camera testing on my 46XBR4):

Using Coma's settings but with picture = 55 and not 72 (see other thread on calibration) and using 480i SD-DVD as input:

Picture 1 (ISO 50, 0.8 Sec, f5.0):



Picture 2 Same as before (ISO 50, 0.8 Sec, f5.0) but now with powersave on the XBR = high:


Thoughts???

Based on experiments I did with the 52XBR3 the disappearance of clouds/flashlights with Power Saving = High comes as no surprise (the LCD panel temp drops significantly). What was the Back Light setting in this mode? You can get much the same result with Power Saving = Low and BackLight at a low setting. BackLight setting has more impact on clouding/flashlights than Picture setting.
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post #186 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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While testing the set for banding with the PC. I notice horizontal bands that moved up and down according to the backlight setting. As you scroll from max to min you'll see the bands move up or down. Is this typical for Sony sets? It's nothing like the Sharp banding but I just want to make sure this is typical.

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post #187 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldorfSalad View Post

Based on experiments I did with the 52XBR3 the disappearance of clouds/flashlights with Power Saving = High comes as no surprise (the LCD panel temp drops significantly). What was the Back Light setting in this mode? You can get much the same result with Power Saving = Low and BackLight at a low setting. BackLight setting has more impact on clouding/flashlights than Picture setting.

FWIW, the backlight setting was on 4. Trying the powersave on low worked just as well.

My thinking at this point is that Sony (and others) try to make their LCD's look subjectively better by going brighter - perhaps too bright - which causes clouding and spotlights. Decreased backlighting or powersaving is a decent solution. From what I've seen, the color is still awesome using these settings. Perfect situation? Hardly. But it seems to work without affecting PQ (actually I thought it was too bright at it's original settings).
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post #188 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chazk View Post

Maybe it is like the old saw...beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

Bingo.
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post #189 of 11990 Old 08-21-2007, 11:59 PM
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The first picture is way too bright. The black bars on the side should be black and not gray. You should always calibrate your own set because you will always get different settings then the original person. Picture 2 is much better but you can still see those clouds. I would not be keeping that set. Go get a new one. I just got the 71 and at full eye scortch I dont have any mura effect, no flashlights, no pillars. Those clouds would drive me crazy.

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post #190 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

The first picture is way too bright. The black bars on the side should be black and not gray. You should always calibrate your own set because you will always get different settings then the original person.

True. But I think the other factor is that it's much less noticable to the eye when compared to the pics taken by a camera with about a 1 second exposure. Ever take long exposures at night of the stars? The camera pics up a lot more than meets the eye - even the dust clouds of the milky way galaxy. I think the pics over-exagerate the issue. Of course, the issue is still there but I think it's more a function of LCD technology as opposed to a defect that can be corrected completely with a new set. Though there are some sets that are better than others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

Picture 2 is much better but you can still see those clouds.

I can't see any clouds in the second pic. Plus, as far as the settings used in the second pic, it's essentially pitch black in my room to my eyes, but the camera obviously pics up more.

If by clouds you mean the fact that LCD's cannot produce a true black, I think that's an inherent LCD issue. By using some of the other settings on the XBR, I can get the LCD darker(?) - maybe I'll post another pic later with the same camera settings. However, I'm of the opinion that you want to do as less to the signal as possible.
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post #191 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 01:01 AM
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How would u compare the xbr4 to the Sharp last years 46" 62u or the 82u? Does the Sony have more of a 3d image than the Sharps?
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post #192 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Ok there is the deal with the Motionflow 1.5x playback effect people are seeing. If Cinemotion reverse 3:2 pulldown is set to Auto1 and Motionflow is set to Standard or High it will look funny. If you turn Cinemotion off or to Auto2 Motionflow looks natural in both Standard and High. Try it yourself and see what I'm talking about.

Yup.
What he said.

Stay away from Auto1.

.
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post #193 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

I can't see any clouds in the second pic. Plus, as far as the settings used in the second pic, it's essentially pitch black in my room to my eyes, but the camera obviously pics up more.

I can't see any clouds in that second picture either... looks like a great set to me! Congrats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

Yup.
What he said.

Stay away from Auto1.

That's great news about Motionflow and Cinemotion: thanks!
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post #194 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

True. But I think the other factor is that it's much less noticable to the eye when compared to the pics taken by a camera with about a 1 second exposure. Ever take long exposures at night of the stars? The camera pics up a lot more than meets the eye - even the dust clouds of the milky way galaxy. I think the pics over-exagerate the issue. Of course, the issue is still there but I think it's more a function of LCD technology as opposed to a defect that can be corrected completely with a new set. Though there are some sets that are better than others.




I can't see any clouds in the second pic. Plus, as far as the settings used in the second pic, it's essentially pitch black in my room to my eyes, but the camera obviously pics up more.

If by clouds you mean the fact that LCD's cannot produce a true black, I think that's an inherent LCD issue. By using some of the other settings on the XBR, I can get the LCD darker(?) - maybe I'll post another pic later with the same camera settings. However, I'm of the opinion that you want to do as less to the signal as possible.

I don't see any clouds in the 2nd pic either.
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post #195 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purell View Post

How would u compare the xbr4 to the Sharp last years 46" 62u or the 82u? Does the Sony have more of a 3d image than the Sharps?

The XBR4 makes me feel like I have my Sharp D92 without banding. The black levels seem to be about the same and the picture quality is very good. On the famous Sharp "grey screen" test I can see horizontal lines were the backlight is when I raise or lower it. They move up or down according to the setting. You only notice it when your adjusting the backlight but I thought it was interesting. I hope someone can tell me if this is normal for the XBR sets are not.

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post #196 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 06:57 AM
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I can say my 46" XBR4 has no clouds. I know what to look for to. i prevously owned a 40" XBR2. Which i took back to Best buy and exchanged 5 times before just getting my money back. I love this tv.

I want some people to post there settings. when they get a chance. i see commas setting but i tried them there very dull to me. After a few tweeks i got mine to look pretty good. but i like the standard setting so far.
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post #197 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Dannyws6 View Post

I can say my 46" XBR4 has no clouds. I know what to look for to. i prevously owned a 40" XBR2. Which i took back to Best buy and exchanged 5 times before just getting my money back. I love this tv.

I want some people to post there settings. when they get a chance. i see commas setting but i tried them there very dull to me. After a few tweeks i got mine to look pretty good. but i like the standard setting so far.

How long a period did that "exchange" process occur over? Did it go past the initial 30 days? Did they make any exchanges past 30 days? did you have the extended warranty?
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post #198 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lsedels View Post

How long a period did that "exchange" process occur over? Did it go past the initial 30 days? Did they make any exchanges past 30 days? did you have the extended warranty?

It went on for about a month straight. What happen is i got the tv home, had it for about 2 weeks. Did some research on the clouds i was seeing. Stumbled on this website, which is great. So i took it back to Best Buy exchanged it for another, which when doing that re-starts the 30 day refund policy. I had the worst experience with the 40" XBR2 i would exchange it and get it home and see the clouds and take it right back that day. which became a pain in reboxing everytime.

i had no extended warranty
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post #199 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dannyws6 View Post

It went on for about a month straight. What happen is i got the tv home, had it for about 2 weeks. Did some research on the clouds i was seeing. Stumbled on this website, which is great. So i took it back to Best Buy exchanged it for another, which when doing that re-starts the 30 day refund policy. I had the worst experience with the 40" XBR2 i would exchange it and get it home and see the clouds and take it right back that day. which became a pain in reboxing everytime.

i had no extended warranty

Thank you. This is very helpful. I didn't know an exchange restarts the 30-day period!
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post #200 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyws6 View Post

It went on for about a month straight. What happen is i got the tv home, had it for about 2 weeks. Did some research on the clouds i was seeing. Stumbled on this website, which is great. So i took it back to Best Buy exchanged it for another, which when doing that re-starts the 30 day refund policy. I had the worst experience with the 40" XBR2 i would exchange it and get it home and see the clouds and take it right back that day. which became a pain in reboxing everytime.

i had no extended warranty

And I bet the salespeople at BB said when they saw you come in with your tv, "Here we go again."

Go 24
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post #201 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

I tried to see if my XBR4 would take a 120Hz input like the Sammy 4671 but it only would accept 60Hz and below. I am using a Geforce 6800GT with the latest NVIDIA drivers for Vista.


If you have a computer with DVI port would you please, connect your XBR4 to the computer via DVI-HDMI cable, collect real time info and post MonInfo (Monitor Asset Manager) report! This will provide us with EDID dump!

http://entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm

Tnx
AG
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post #202 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

Yup.
What he said.

Stay away from Auto1.

Does anyone know what is technically the difference between Auto 1 and Auto 2? Are there different methods of detecting film material needing 3:2 pulldown or just different ways of processing it? The manual is of course useless on the subject.

Still waiting on delivery of my 52xbr4.
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post #203 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post

Not entirely, on mine, the software version and 2 numbers of the firmware are different...

1. Model: 46XBR4
2. Purchase/Location: 8/20/2007 @ CC
3. Mfg. Date: July 2007
4. Software Version: K-BMN-A-H-C-D-L-A-M
5. Firmware Version:

DIGITAL
001 OP
000 VERS 000


DM1.010A00LA (different)
DD0.000A00LU
M2.001C


SM1.007W00AA
SD1.003W00AA
SB1.002W00AA


BM1.011A00LU
BD1.012A00LUX (different)
BB1.000W00AU

6. Detected Issues: None so far but I'm trying to re-create the clouding issues....

7. Amazing color and 3D-dimensionalism (using Coma's settings but with picture set at 55 and not 72).

Are you sure that you have XBR not W3000 model?
My 40W3000 manufacturing in July (28 week) has the same FW version and DM1.010A00LA.
The only difference is: - you have BD1.012A00LUX I have BD1. 012A00LUW.
Your observation, if confirmed, makes me feel that W3000 is not that different from XBR4.
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post #204 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:46 AM
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Another question. Maybe somebody knows the answer. That piece of paper from Sony says that if you have any problem with your new LCD TV, don't contact the seller. Instead contact Sony directly and they will deal with it. So if my new tv has clouds and I bought it online (can not send it back), can I contact SONY and make them come look at it and/or exchange it?
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post #205 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 07:47 AM
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AG, I will do moninfo tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon. Iff the BB truck shows up.
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post #206 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmickz1 View Post

kicked up the bightness to 64 for awhile and didn't notice dimming but i will say that the xbr4 dimming is quite smooth kinda tuff to spot sometimes.

zmickz1,
Thanks.. I'm guessing it is still the same then. If you get a chance to try it on some more obvious, I'd appreciate.. Still if it is still the same, good to know you can "turn it off" so to speak.

Jay S.
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post #207 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by poiv3 View Post

Another question. Maybe somebody knows the answer. That piece of paper from Sony says that if you have any problem with your new LCD TV, don't contact the seller. Instead contact Sony directly and they will deal with it. So if my new tv has clouds and I bought it online (can not send it back), can I contact SONY and make them come look at it and/or exchange it?

I am interested in this aswell
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post #208 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 09:04 AM
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Just purchased a 52xbr4 and waiting for it to arrive. I plan on mounting it to the wall. Has anyone done this yet? What do you guys do about the power plug? Ideally I'd like to feed all the wires in the wall and come out the bottom but is it possible with the power plug? Also, do you suggest mounting it higher or lower compared to line of sight? The mount has a tilt but is it still better to mount it lower on the wall and keep it straight or does it not matter? Thanks!
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post #209 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilleyj View Post

There is a quick "fly-out" menu that you can use to change these settings...
Was it in the manual? I can't remember... I saw it somewhere.

While in the source you want to change, hit the Option button (I think it's the South-East one). You can't change the CineMotion quickly though.

Personally, I found setting per source is best. I'm still trying to figure out how and when to use HDMI upscaling etc from my Onkyo amp but then it kills my Picture&Picture feature (only one source at a time from the amp). Note to self: no whining.

I have a cloud in the north eastish of my screen but I only notice when it's powering off/on or the video source is blank. Even in a black PS3 menu, I don't notice it. It's not as bad as my Dell 2001fpw (I have two).
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post #210 of 11990 Old 08-22-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great View Post

If you have a computer with DVI port would you please, connect your XBR4 to the computer via DVI-HDMI cable, collect real time info and post MonInfo (Monitor Asset Manager) report! This will provide us with EDID dump!

http://entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm

Tnx
AG

I only have a mac to hook up. I know that sounds off-topic but I found it interesting that I couldn't run 1920x1080 non-interlaced. DVI to VGA (using the XBR's PC port) gave me 1080p no problem but then you are forced to use PIP and not P&P (manual stated this before I bought it but not the interlace thing). When I connect it DVI to HDMI, I can only run 1280x1024 progressive or up to 1920x1080 interlaced. Weird huh?
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