Official Samsung LNT-xx71f Owners Thread - Page 558 - AVS Forum
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post #16711 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cybolt View Post

Ive been feeling exactly the same way....my issue is mini-blinds and tbe but no real stutter.

I brought in the Pio 5080 Kuro and am running side-by-side with 4671. I'll make a detailed report in a day or two but for now, let's just say this:

Equal or better PQ
No issues
4" bigger
And oh yeah....Got it for $500 less than the Sammy.

This whole BS about Samsung going to fix this, while they're in the midst of rolling out a newer product, is simply a crock. People who believe, "Our engineers are working on a solution," are unequivocally more optimistic than I.

Good Luck in whatever choice you make.

The only issue with Kuros is the possibility of buzz. Sounds (no pun intended) like you get a non-buzzing unit.

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post #16712 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by studdad View Post

although TBS can be one of the big offenders, that does not sound like classic stutter. With stutter, the picture will often times look like it is slowing down, then it will get really jerky, like it is dropping frames. For example, an arm being lifted should be a smooth motion, but with stutter, it will look like the arm is jerking up, and the frames/picture between the jerks is lost, i.e. you don't see it. Or, you might see someone walking. They will slow down, then jerk/jump ahead, again, like frames are being dropped.


Ok, so maybe you can help me out....i just had tnthd on (read previous reply) and same thing....picture is just freezing....i have to either change channel or wait up to a minute for it to resume.....its even doing it with amp off
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post #16713 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbull271 View Post

Ok, so maybe you can help me out....i just had tnthd on (read previous reply) and same thing....picture is just freezing....i have to either change channel or wait up to a minute for it to resume.....its even doing it with amp off

Hmm, not sure that is stutter. Stutter looks like the frames are slowing down - kinda slow-motion, then is catches up and is fine. This can happen multiple times etc.

Just plain out freezing - could be something else - not your TV - I don't know. Who's your Satellite/Cable provider?
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post #16714 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by insimbi View Post

Not sure, but TBS, TNT and ABC are the stations that cause stutter for me. So it could be stutter. I see it on some shows, not everything on those channels. Seems like prime time shows or movies is where I see it.

I finally sat down and watch TBSHD and TNTHD, and sure enough there was stutter showing its ugly face. Of course I never noticed this before but I am puzzled as to why it is these two channels. I have never seen stutter in any of the other channels I watch...

Something tells me its not necessarily the television. I have Dish, I think it is also known as E*, do you have dish as well?

It wouldnt make sense for the Television to be the issue unless it was more than a few stations, 2 out of 250, that doesnt scream problem with the TV...
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post #16715 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by watsonte View Post

I finally sat down and watch TBSHD and TNTHD, and sure enough there was stutter showing its ugly face. Of course I never noticed this before but I am puzzled as to why it is these two channels. I have never seen stutter in any of the other channels I watch...

Something tells me its not necessarily the television. I have Dish, I think it is also known as E*, do you have dish as well?

It wouldnt make sense for the Television to be the issue unless it was more than a few stations, 2 out of 250, that doesnt scream problem with the TV...

Yup, I have Dish Network as well. So whatever that means. Maybe it's the stations??
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post #16716 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:53 PM
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i have optimum....my box is the SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA 8300 HD-DVR...


It never freezes or stutters on any other channels or source, thats why my initial thought was that its TBSHD, but then it also did it on TNTHD....i am now watching MAXHD with amp jacked to high, and no problems so far.....i always watch TBSHD, even on my old CRT rear projection (hitachi) never had this prob of freezing up......

big quest is this......WILL THIS HAPPEN ON THE XBR4?
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post #16717 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbull271 View Post

Ok, so maybe you can help me out....i just had tnthd on (read previous reply) and same thing....picture is just freezing....i have to either change channel or wait up to a minute for it to resume.....its even doing it with amp off


I am no expert since I have never seen stutter or watch TBS/TNT but it sounds like this is source related. When I have had issues like this in the past it was caused by my STB.
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post #16718 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jtchans View Post

Was wondering if anyone knows if you can call Samsung from lets say my local BB and provide them with the SN of a xx71f, would they be able to give you the firmware for that TV?

Just talked to a Samsung Agent, he told me this is not possible can anyone confirm?
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post #16719 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 04:59 PM
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This was something I wanted to try but didn't know if it was possible. Thanks for asking this questions maybe someone knows for sure.
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post #16720 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera1 View Post

I am no expert since I have never seen stutter or watch TBS/TNT but it sounds like this is source related. When I have had issues like this in the past it was caused by my STB.


good idea....have the same box upstairs...gonna switch em and see if prob still there
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post #16721 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:07 PM
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Don't you guys have any other TV that is not a 71f? That's one way to see if the station/source is the problem and not the TV. I would verify it first before I would put the blame on the TV.

I have been noticing lately since the last couple of months that there are a lot more of these quirks from the broadcasts (stutter, freezing, glitches etc.) and I can see this even when watching it on my RPTV and tube tv.

What I am noticing more of now since the start of the year is that there are tons of compression issue with most of this broadcasts. A lot of pixelation and macroblocking and more often a vertical blind effect (yes vertical) on any medium to fast motion. I don't know if Cox cable have implemented a new compression system or the whole broadcasters have changed to a new system also but they are more apparent now on almost all the channel than they were compared to last year.

Either that or my eyes have just gotten more keen to look for these "imperfections" thanks to this thread. I think it is the former.

...
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post #16722 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by insimbi View Post

Yup, I have Dish Network as well. So whatever that means. Maybe it's the stations??

For me it means consistancy, it seems as though TNT, and TBS cause this set to struggle, or are problems when it comes to HD Programming. I don't know what it is about these stations but I have cycled through and watched a number of channels and never once did I notice stutter...but the one time I decided to watch TNTHD I see stutter. Right now as I watch it appears to have either fixed itself, or the television finally started working correctly.

I imagine this topic has been talked about to death. But the one thing we all have in common is that its the same TV and the Same channel. That just seems very odd.
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post #16723 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by watsonte View Post

For me it means consistancy, it seems as though TNT, and TBS cause this set to struggle, or are problems when it comes to HD Programming. I don't know what it is about these stations but I have cycled through and watched a number of channels and never once did I notice stutter...but the one time I decided to watch TNTHD I see stutter. Right now as I watch it appears to have either fixed itself, or the television finally started working correctly.

I imagine this topic has been talked about to death. But the one thing we all have in common is that its the same TV and the Same channel. That just seems very odd.

me too...same here....watching friends on tbshd and no probs last 20 mins...hey lets test it...put on tbshd...watch friends...i have amp on high.....post if you get a freeze of what scene and what was going on
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post #16724 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GoldenEarDrum View Post

Don't you guys have any other TV that is not a 71f? That's one way to see if the station/source is the problem and not the TV. I would verify it first before I would put the blame on the TV.

I have been noticing lately since the last couple of months that there are a lot more of these quirks from the broadcasts (stutter, freezing, glitches etc.) and I can see this even when watching it on my RPTV and tube tv.

What I am noticing more of now since the start of the year is that there are tons of compression issue with most of this broadcasts. A lot of pixelation and macroblocking and more often a vertical blind effect (yes vertical) on any medium to fast motion. I don't know if Cox cable have implemented a new compression system or the whole broadcasters have changed to a new system also but they are more apparent now on almost all the channel than they were compared to last year.

Either that or my eyes have just gotten more keen to look for these "imperfections" thanks to this thread. I think it is the former.

...

I wish I did, but I do not have more than one TV, I have one STB, and use component cables. I have just now tried HDMI, but still no stutter for the past 10-15 min. I really think its more source related than anything.
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post #16725 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:15 PM
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insimbi....test with us...put on tbshd....jack up your amp to high.....if freeze or stutter post exactky when in show that it happ
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post #16726 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbull271 View Post

me too...same here....watching friends on tbshd and no probs last 20 mins...hey lets test it...put on tbshd...watch friends...i have amp on high.....post if you get a freeze of what scene and what was going on

Just got through two commercial breaks and no issues so far...
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post #16727 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by watsonte View Post

Just got through two commercial breaks and no issues so far...


just gonna say the same thing.....so far so good.....
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post #16728 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:23 PM
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still good here
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post #16729 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:28 PM
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nothing thru whole show....HAS TO BE SOURCE RELATED....big BUT...for some reason it happens only on 71F......what to do? i have 29 days lft to decide.....xbr4?
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post #16730 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbull271 View Post

nothing thru whole show....HAS TO BE SOURCE RELATED....big BUT...for some reason it happens only on 71F......what to do? i have 29 days lft to decide.....xbr4?

Yeah same here, and I dont know if the XBR4 would solve your problems or not...

I would venture into the XBR thread and see what kind of issues they're having. I would imagine they have their fair share of problems and seeing how this is source related I would assume that you might see the problem less than you anticipate seeing it...

With 29 days left you have a great deal of time to make a decision so I wouldn't rush out right away and return the 71 for the XBR4
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post #16731 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by watsonte View Post

Yeah same here, and I dont know if the XBR4 would solve your problems or not...

I would venture into the XBR thread and see what kind of issues they're having. I would imagine they have their fair share of problems and seeing how this is source related I would assume that you might see the problem less than you anticipate seeing it...

With 29 days left you have a great deal of time to make a decision so I wouldn't rush out right away and return the 71 for the XBR4

i agree watson...you the man bro....reason why i swayed form the sony was bc i saw tons of smearing going on.....and thats also what everybody in the sony threads are bitching about....watching the sammy and sony side by side in CC (calibrated them both) the sony's smearing was BRUTAL

still no probs on tbshd
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post #16732 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:39 PM
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out of all the f'ing channels, tbs is my fav channel! i unwind after days work to the shows they play....SEINFELD/FRIENDS/RAYMOND....and the greatest....FAM GUY!
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post #16733 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:42 PM
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It seems like the panels built in 2008 actually seem to have better boards/firmware. I've had several people tell me that the newer builds are pretty solid with little or no TBE and stutter. So perhaps I should put this on my short list. By the time I buy I would expect these issues to have worked their way out of inventories in mid march.
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post #16734 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtchans View Post

Just talked to a Samsung Agent, he told me this is not possible can anyone confirm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

It seems like the panels built in 2008 actually seem to have better boards/firmware. I've had several people tell me that the newer builds are pretty solid with little or no TBE and stutter. So perhaps I should put this on my short list. By the time I buy I would expect these issues to have worked their way out of inventories in mid march.

Are the panels built this year the ones that have the latest firmware? Is the build date of these sets dsplayed on the outside of the box?
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post #16735 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrocity View Post

Are the panels built this year the ones that have the latest firmware? Is the build date of these sets dsplayed on the outside of the box?

mine was built in jan 2008......FW 2004.....what i did was check serial #....if Q in middle its 2008 and MOST LIKELY latest FW...

Q1 jan 2008

if P its 2007..... look for the next character to determine month

PA october
PB nov
PC dec

I asked the salesman at CC to go in back and write down the serial # for me before i purchased......hope this helps
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post #16736 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrocity View Post

Are the panels built this year the ones that have the latest firmware? Is the build date of these sets dsplayed on the outside of the box?

Well, if you can look at the box prior to buying the television, look for the Serial number on the outside of the box, If you find a Q1 then it should be a panel built in January, and with the latest firmware, at least that's been my experience.
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post #16737 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbull271 View Post

Ok, so maybe you can help me out....i just had tnthd on (read previous reply) and same thing....picture is just freezing....i have to either change channel or wait up to a minute for it to resume.....its even doing it with amp off

I have no idea why it would only happen on those channels that seem to be the worst for stutter. Maybe when your set starts to stutter, instead of jumping ahead and continuing on, it just locks up. That would be a potential possibility IF it only happens on those channels, AND, you don't have the regular stutter. If it was happening on all channels, then we could look at cables, or your provider, or your set top box (stb), etc., before blaming the tv, but without that possibility, I really don't know.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #16738 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by insimbi View Post

Hmm, not sure that is stutter. Stutter looks like the frames are slowing down - kinda slow-motion, then is catches up and is fine. This can happen multiple times etc.

Just plain out freezing - could be something else - not your TV - I don't know. Who's your Satellite/Cable provider?

WAIT, lol, I just saw that he said it does resume if he waits long enough. Maybe there is some unique problems with his buffer, i.e. something like the screen freezing on the last good frame and all the bad frames piling up in the buffer until they overwelm it, then dump the frames, then resumes playing....just a thought.

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post #16739 of 28850 Old 01-28-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

Well, in my everlasting quest to determine the cause of motion artifacts in the 71 series 120hz panel, one cause i mentioned ions ago was that the 8ms spec is too high for a 120 hz panel. This is an interview with Brian Berkley who is with Samsung (more specific info below) with HDTV magazine. The new Samsung panels in the 6 & 7 series are spec'd at 4ms. Could this be the holy grail? Could the lower spec'd circuits work more compatably with AMP? Why did Samsung cut the 8ms in half? Did they talk to Brian Berkley?

Liquid Crystal Pixel Response Time
The short answer to the 4ms part of the question is:

The timing is the response time in ms that a single liquid crystal pixel of a display device takes to twist and turn itself to change from white to white passing thru black first. Manufacturers also declare the spec from gray to gray, from black to black, to express the same thing, and could be shorten with "G-G or g-g".[/i]

In other words, the timing for a liquid crystal pixel to restore itself and be ready to display the next image without showing any residue of the previous image displayed by that pixel (otherwise artifacts could occur).

In theory, the faster a liquid crystal pixel can restore itself, the better potential the display device would have to display more frames per second (faster frame refresh rates), for whatever purpose.

Some manufacturers express the spec as the number of ms the liquid crystal pixel takes to reach only up the halfway point (ie. measuring from white to black, before converting to white again). If my memory serves me correctly, several years ago Sony specified some SXRDs LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) sets with about 2.5ms for that half cycle when introduced, which in theory would mean 5ms for the full cycle. .

In my exchanges about the subject with Brian Berkeley, Vice President, LCD Business Technology Development Group, Samsung Electronics, the concept was further clarified:

"G-G response time can be reduced (a good thing) by application of response time compensation (RTC) circuits, which compare gray levels of the previous and current frames to determine a boost value.

This boost, or overshoot, causes the LC molecules to switch to the proper position more quickly. Samsung's version of RTC is called dynamic capacitance compensation, or DCC. For an LCD-TV to be free of motion blur, it is a requirement that the g-g response time be small enough."



The frame refresh rate is a specification of the incoming signal but is also of a display device, which could have by design the capability to show 60 frames per second of incoming video at faster speeds if necessary, such as 120Hz or 180Hz. What kind of content is displayed on those extra frames is another subject, more on that later.

Although that spec is a timing of the video engine, not the liquid crystal pixel, the overall performance of the set could be affected by the interaction of both. For example, the response time of each pixel could be insufficient when is much slower (taking longer to restore itself) than the speed required by the frame rate of the display. In simple terms, having a slow 20ms pixel response time on a 120Hz display (that would require at least 8ms of pixel speed) would render an inferior image.

In other words, the set intends to display video frames at a speed that the pixels response time cannot catch up with, affecting the pixels readiness for the next frame of video, and show blurriness, lag, etc. which is a common problem on poorly designed LCD panels.


Typical LCD panels show each frame in a "sample-and-hold" manner, by which all the pixels on each frame are kept lighted for the whole duration of the cycle for that frame rate (16ms for 60fps), and at the very end of that cycle the crystals twist and turn in a rush to be ready and adapt to the next frame, which also brings full light with it. That is done even when the pixel could have restored itself faster at its own independent response time of 2, 4, 6, 8 ms depending on the design.

In other words, the blurriness is not always caused because the liquid crystal pixel response time is slow, but because there might not be a break of light in between frames.

Note that here you can capitalize from the comment I made earlier about frame refresh time ('Note that I am not saying "the timing that takes a full frame to be displayed", which is a different concept.')

As follows: The frame could be displayed really fast within the 16 ms period between frames, and still have the time to DISAPPEAR out of sight to show black or something else to interrupt light, rather than sit there fully lighted and on hold until is time for the next frame.

An important factor is that, to perceive continuous motion, the human eye expects the image frames to have breaks in between and interrupt the constant supply of light, so it might not be misinterpreted as increased blurriness.

The sample-and-hold approach for each frame does not provide for that break, and when the next frame needs to be shown the twist-and-turn of the liquid crystal pixels is done so quickly that is not seen as a light interruption.

While discussing this subject with Brian Berkeley, he confirmed the following:

"Hold type driving is used in LCD-TVs and in other matrix-addressed displays. Compare this type of driving with CRT displays, which are impulsively driven. In an impulsively driven display, the image is present only for a short period of time. By contrast, in a hold-type driven display like an LCD, the image is held throughout the entire frame period until next frame is written.

Hold-type driving is good for eliminating flicker and for getting maximum light output, but there is a drawback to hold-type driving for moving pictures. If an image is moving at a rate of, say, a few pixels per frame, then there is effectively a positional error in that the image position is correct for only a fraction of the frame.

To measure motion picture response time of an LCD panel, there is a metric called "MPRT", which literally stands for motion picture response time. MPRT is useful for comparing different LCD-TVs, but it is not so useful for comparing LCDs to other technologies, such as plasma displays, projection displays, or CRTs. As in g-g time, it is also good to have a lower MPRT score.

Important note: Having very small gray-to-gray response time does not solve this problem. Even if the g-g response time is 0, MPRT can still be too large to have blur-free images. Again, this is due to hold-type driving mentioned above. A low g-g LC response time is necessary, but not sufficient, for achieving a low MPRT score."

Faster Frame Rates
If a display's frame rate is faster than the incoming signal, it has the potential to smooth out the motion and improve the presentation of images. For example, 24fps video that originated from film content will show flicker if displayed at that speed, some displays can accept that 24fps frame rate and display the frame cadence at exact multiples of it to eliminate the flicker and to give smoothness to fast action images, without doing 2:3 pull-down to convert the film frame rate to the more typical 60fps of video.

Some displays multiply the frame rate x2, x3, etc. to display the 24fps content at 48Hz (front projectors), 72Hz (Pioneer Elite plasmas), 96Hz (front projectors), and even at 120 Hz (some projectors, LCDs), creating or adding new frames that were not present in the incoming signal.

Interpolate New frames
To impart smoothness to the fast movement of the objects shown by the image, some sets insert new frames employing interpolation techniques that calculate its pixels anticipating the future direction of the content motion by looking at the next frame/s in advance, rather than just repeating the same exact frame.

Such technique claims to improve the presentation of fast images, but I add, provided that the video processing is of sufficient quality to avoid adding artifacts that might render a cadence of images that is poorer than just repeating the same frame.

Such repetition would be more faithful to film content, as the local theater projector do with film, showing the 24 film frames per second at 48 frames speed by opening the projector's shooter twice for each celluloid frame that passes in front of the projector lens.

The 120 Hz Competition
Having a spec of 120Hz on a LCD display does not necessarily mean that the set is doing pixel-by-pixel motion adaptive interpolation of added calculated frames as mentioned above, it depends on the design, and it does not necessarily mean that it accepts 24fps film sources frame rate to display them at 5 times that speed, whereby 1 incoming frame is repeated 4 times before displaying the next frame.

Some might use the faster 120Hz display speed to give smoothness to the 60Hz video source presentation, and convert 24Hz sources to 60Hz with 2:3 pull-down, and then double the frame rate to 120Hz of the display by repeating twice the frame (rather than the 4 repeated frames technique above). Because of the conversions, there could be a lot of video artifacts compared to straight frame repetition.

Some LCDs are inserting black or darker (same image at lower light) frames within the 120fps display cadence of an incoming 60fps image. Some can do both (black/darker frames, or image interpolated frames) at the option of the viewer and selectable from the video menu of the set.

Some can show black intervals between the actual 60fps frames without having a 120Hz speed rate design, such as just interrupting the light source in between frames, rather than adding black frames that need to be displayed at a faster frame rate.

The insertion of black (or darker) frames or light interruptions between actual frames is viewed by many manufacturers as a good method for the human vision to better perceive motion from LCD with less motion blur, having a clean separation of video frames with no (or reduced) light source in between, rather than the sample-and-hold approach mentioned before.

120Hz is becoming the new buzzword for LCD panels to give consumers the idea of "my panel is faster and is therefore better than the competition", but many fall short in describing how that speed is used. The image cadence could be faster but at the price of interpolation artifacts from a sub-standard video processor, to keep the panel price down, which also attracts consumers.

Manufacturers like JVC, Toshiba, Sharp, Philips, Samsung, Hitachi, and LG have implemented proprietary technologies such as Clear Motion Drive II, ClearFrame, http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisi...y.asp?fid=2088, FineMotion Advanced, and Pixel Plus (from the first four manufacturers above respectively), to address the sample-and-hold issues, improve motion smoothing, and reduce the perceived motion blur. They employ methods of adding black frames, interpolated frames, darker frames, backlight flashing, at 60, 120 or 180 Hz frame rates.

Brian Berkeley, further adds to this concept:

"g-g and MPRT scores are being confused with one another. There is nothing particularly great about a g-g response time of 8ms; 4ms g-g is more typical these days. On the other hand, an MPRT score of 8ms is about state-of-the-art for mass production LCD-TVs these days.

So how to overcome the problem of hold-type driving? By using 120Hz driving with frame interpolation, instead of 60Hz driving, this effectively cuts the hold time in half. If the g-g response time is low enough, the MPRT score will also be cut in half.

Another technique is to use black insertion, which causes the LCD to mimic a CRT's impulsively driven response. But the problem of applying such kind of impulsive driving technique to LCDs is that (just like CRTs) flicker can occur, and there is light loss.

With this as background, yes, a 120Hz set must have g-g response times below 8ms."

Mine is a Super Fast Pixel
Why pursuing a shorter 2-4-6 ms pixel response time when it would not solve the blurriness problem by itself? Most LCD panels are designed with frame rates of 60fps, and now with 120 fps to address the problem, and those theoretically would need respectively 16 or 8 ms pixel response time.

Maybe those pixel-fast panels were preparing for soon to be implemented technology of faster frame rates, which would put to use such fast speed at the pixel level. Maybe they should have both been implemented together to claim that the blurriness problem in LCD was properly addressed as a package.

In the middle of those question marks there is an issue of market competition and "be first in technology" by a manufacturer, and how that played a role in convincing consumers that 2-4-6 ms response time was actually needed in a world of mostly 60Hz panels, and even now with 120Hz panels.

Brian Berkeley responded to me with one final comment about that issue:

"Yes, 120Hz driving needs faster g-g response time. The calculation of required g-g isn't trivial; it depends on several factors. For example, for a 120Hz panel, it isn't quite as simple as saying the g-g response must be within 1/120Hz or 8.33ms.

A g-g response below that number is required. Also, g-g is just one number, but how it gets measured is important: Does g-g response time mean average g-g over all possible transitions, does it mean the max value of all possible transitions, is it measured at 10%-90% or some other transition %, and so on.

The question is then: how much lower is low enough (lower than 8ms for 120 Hz panels) to make sure the g-g as measured is sufficiently low (fast) for the requirement of the panel frame rate? Considering that the g-g measurement standard is not typically disclosed on a g-g spec other than saying "x ms", and even if it would be, I doubt most people would know what to do with it.

By design the g-g should be low enough, but are you the type of consumer that believes that manufacturers do not cut corners believing you won't notice? Or one that rather go a bit lower than 8ms g-g, just to be on the safe side, maybe down to 4ms, if that is a safe zone for your pocket.

Would you buy a Ferrari with 55 Mph rated tires, or rather with 200 Mph rated tires?

Even when law limits the 55 Mph speed, you might feel better because one day such high performance on that piece of the car "might be needed".

Great find there Lip. It's a great explanation of exactly what goes on in LCD technology. It fortifies my nutshell explanation and clarification of this technology a few hundred posts ago.

There is no doubt that these new panels for 2008 are simply awesome. They are just different and you just have to see it to believe it. They are just simply easier to the eyes and even better to photograph and have better pop. The only thing that I couldn't compare was how well AMP works with these new TVs as they did not have any fast motion samples.

I'm still hoping though that we get the new 7 series as a replacement set for us 1xxx panel owners.

...
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i found this EXTREMLY intresting on the sharp 64u thread....read midway down, peop comp about pic freezing up on certain channels! today too

read page 101...post 3037 and 3038

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post12961866
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