Official Samsung 81 Series LNT-xx81f Owner's Thread Part II - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolfiboy View Post

Well I do know how a LED work, you don´t have to tell me, and yes white LEDs will be the future in lighting, actually i have 6 LED spots in my home to light up my bedroom. But White LEDs will never be better than RGB LEDs in a LCD tv, as your link show. White LEDs will have i wide color spectrum but only in some color waveleghts that do not presents the pure ground colors like deepest RED and deepest GREEN, and a LCD panel can only show these colors and the colors between/mixing the colors. If thoose colors aint 100% pure/very narrow waveleghts, then the LCD cant show the 100% pure colors. With a RGB LED you can make the red, green and blue colors 99,9% pure(narrow wavelenght that match the respective color), and you can adjust the brightnes of every color/LED independent from each other, that will never be possible in a white LED, yes the RGB LED will requirer more advance control circuit, but the colors will be perfect.

Samsung maybe says that the white LEDs are much more effective and so on... But I dont care, because they only says so because they know that RGB LEDs will be much more expensive than white LEDs, because the white LEDs are cheaper to make than RGB LEDs, and the RGB LEDs requirer much more advance control circuit. The trade off is the colors and they mean that this is a affordable, and much better to raise the constrast(for now, i hope).

yeah but their white led is made from "red, green, and blue things" doesn't that make it better than any other white led which use other non red, green, and blue materials? shouldn't samsung's white led still be better than florescent tubes? even florescent based lcd have gotten pretty close to more vibrant truer colors (see cnet's review of the sammy 65 series set) so does that perfect tri-colored white led really matter? especially with price, cost, and power efficiency how perfect does it need to be?
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

actually in my testing the 81 was better at movies and the 71 better at games but you wouldnt know. Plus why would you want to play your games in movie mode. Just a mess if you have a ps3 and have it calibrated for movies and play a game and have to do all your settings over again. Games need different calibration settings than movies do. So if ledmotion plus does such a HUGE difference on games. Why would it only be available in movie mode and i believe off in game mode. Doesnt make sense. Then again if ledmotionplus makes such a huge difference then what is the point of standard and dynamic. Ps it makes a very tiny difference and not very user friendly thats why i tote the 81 as a great movie display. Now the 71 has amp available in all 3 display settings and i usually play games in standard or dynamic. Trust me i know these things!

If you've already done all of this testing on the 71 and 81 and have decided 71 is better for gaming, why are you asking for the test in your previous post? Didn't you already perform these tests?

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Old 09-08-2007, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rickbbb View Post

I plan to watch a blue ray dvd on my new LNT5281F tomorrow for the first time.I'm sure it will be a major improvement from the HD I'm watching right now on regular HD channels.
I remember when I watched HD in the past on other BIG screen plasma and LCD HDTV's you could see the sweat on peoples faces and the lines on their faces when I watched them in HD.NOT ON THIS TV.It sucks !!!
There are a few last chances I'll give this set before I accept any serious buyers.I just ordered an hdmi 1.3 cable,which I think is very compatible with this set...and
am watching a blue ray dvd on the tv for the first time tomorrow...am not sure if I'll still have this set next month..if I do..I'll have it calibrated professionally...but will that make the picture so sharp I will see sweat on their faces or lines on their faces when watching anHD show? You tell me.

Why don't you just return the set? It should be within the return period.
As far as the resolution sharpness, if the detail isn't as good as you expect it might be because the set is not correctly deinterlacing 1080i. It would be nice if someone where to test this.

Mike
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:05 AM
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What's the story with Halo's on this set?

I recall seeing the Sharp d62 for the first time, then saying "Hey, this thing has banding."
My first look at the 5281 yielded a response of "Hey, this thing has HALO'S.
Bright objects on a dark background have a field of glow around them.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:25 AM
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Anyone heard of an LN-T4679F with LED and matte?

The 71 will be in matte as a 69, figured the 79 might be LED.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rickbbb View Post

Did any of you buy your 81F tv from ABT Electronics? If so,was the tv in good condition-cosmetically..no scratches,no loose nails,etc-when you got it?

No issues here with ABT. They took a little longer to get it out than I would have liked - but the TV was received in pristine condition.

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Old 09-08-2007, 10:45 AM
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had a chance to check out both the xbr4 and 71 sammy, similar 120hz as the 81 series, now this was the first time i saw this odd effect. both were playing HD DVD. Ghost rider and Ridick.

Everything looked " sped up " then would slow down to normal 24frames. What is causing this. is this what 120hz does ? it looked...very odd, def, like the movies were shot with different " cheap cameras "

to the owners have you ever seen such sped up sequences and more important, whatever that feature is. can it be shut off.?
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:52 AM
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Has it been determined if this panel is 8 bit or 10 bit like the Sony?

Also, I cant recall if it was a Samsung or Joint Sony/Samsung announcing a few weeks back that they were immediately starting to ship 52" & 57" pannels from a new location (new plant). Does anyone know if that will impact on the 5281 or 5781 and if so, how. Would this newer pannel be more advanced somehow and how long before the new panels hit the US or Canada in the form of updated inventory>

Thx
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

had a chance to check out both the xbr4 and 71 sammy, similar 120hz as the 81 series, now this was the first time i saw this odd effect. both were playing HD DVD. Ghost rider and Ridick.

Everything looked " sped up " then would slow down to normal 24frames. What is causing this. is this what 120hz does ? it looked...very odd, def, like the movies were shot with different " cheap cameras "

to the owners have you ever seen such sped up sequences and more important, whatever that feature is. can it be shut off.?


i've had mine for a few days now...and have tweaked the settings...I love the picture i'm getting for sports and movies at this point...this panel has soo much capability...as for sharpness..i think you have to check your output settings from the cable box...my HDTV is better than what i've seen at the stores now that i have it calibrated.

what I really love about this set..is when your watching HDTV, but not 16:9...the two black bars on each side are Pitch black! not grey not black with halos...pitch black..
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot Matheson View Post

Has it been determined if this panel is 8 bit or 10 bit like the Sony?

Also, I cant recall if it was a Samsung or Joint Sony/Samsung announcing a few weeks back that they were immediately starting to ship 52" & 57" pannels from a new location (new plant). Does anyone know if that will impact on the 5281 or 5781 and if so, how. Would this newer pannel be more advanced somehow and how long before the new panels hit the US or Canada in the form of updated inventory>

Thx

movies are 8 bit so it doesnt really matter.

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Old 09-08-2007, 12:05 PM
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I swapped HD receivers with my mom and the picture on my tv improved !Only problem is the audio on the tv won't with with the hdmi cable thats connected to the receiver...When I connect the audio cables from my receiver to my amplifier the sound works fine..am going to replace this receiver for a new one through Dish Network.

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Old 09-08-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WPWoodJr View Post

Which technology does the 81 use?

white led(the one thats a blue led with a red and green phosphor coating)
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:44 PM
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My 4681 just got delivered today. It came from Illinois via Maryland and finally down to me in central VA. Long trip but the box looks ok. Haven't opened her up yet because I really don't know what to do with it. LOL

Do I try to adjust the settings myself? Have it professionally calibrated by someone after the 100 hour burn in? Or just plug it in and let her rip until I see some final kick ass calibrated settings from someone on this forum and then calibrate it myself?
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tokyo Heat View Post

yeah but their white led is made from "red, green, and blue things" doesn't that make it better than any other white led which use other non red, green, and blue materials? shouldn't samsung's white led still be better than florescent tubes? even florescent based lcd have gotten pretty close to more vibrant truer colors (see cnet's review of the sammy 65 series set) so does that perfect tri-colored white led really matter? especially with price, cost, and power efficiency how perfect does it need to be?

Maybe they are better than other white LEDs, because of some special phosphor coating and so on. but they will not get better than CCFL color wise, both CCFL and white LEDs uses phosphors to make the white light. The LEDs "just" make teknologys like local dimming and motion plus possible and make the TV more energy effecient.

Yes the colors do so much for the PQ it makes the picture more alive and natural, and actually RGB LEDs are not so much more expensive than white LEDs, but i think that the 81 is like a pilot projekt(the second) for the white LED, because the white LEDs will be the CCFL replacement in mainstream LCD TVs in the future.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SiriusSammyFan View Post

My 4681 just got delivered today. It came from Illinois via Maryland and finally down to me in central VA. Long trip but the box looks ok. Haven't opened her up yet because I really don't know what to do with it. LOL

Do I try to adjust the settings myself? Have it professionally calibrated by someone after the 100 hour burn in? Or just plug it in and let her rip until I see some final kick ass calibrated settings from someone on this forum and then calibrate it myself?

its not a plasma so dont worry about 100 hour break in. Take it out of the box by unclipping the two white tabs on the side of the box. Lift the ox. Pull out the tv. Plug it in and sett everything on super high because unlike plasma, you dont have to be carefull with lcds. Put it in movie mode and calibrate yourself using some of the settings posted in this thread and enjoy. What are you waiting for?

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Old 09-08-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolfiboy View Post

...

Sharp 150% NTSC color gamut solved, it's a led lcd afterall :

"Chi Mei, currently the fifth largest panel producer in the world, is currently displaying its own 52-inch FullHD television, which can cover up to 150 percent of the NTSC colour space, at the IFA in Berlin. "

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews_tv1069.html

"2. Hyper-color is achieved through the use of domain RGB settings to adjust brightness characteristics and achieve a 160% NTSC (u'-v') dynamic color gamut. Compared with conventional LED backlighting, this feature can provide a 45% wider gamut with the same illumination."

http://www.cmo.com.tw/opencms/cmo/me...=6&__locale=en
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

movies are 8 bit so it doesnt really matter.

Actually it does matter. You start with good 8 bit data. If you manipulate it with only 8 bits of precision you are guaranteed to have less than the 8 bits you started with. The extra bits are to reduce the error from the calculation not to add extra bits to the original data.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:06 PM
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I should get a shot at one of these toward the end of the month. I will post the data when I do.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:51 PM
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Picked my 4081 up this afternoon, have spent around an hour or so tweaking it. So far, I love it. After I honed things in for this shot from King Kong, my wife remarked "Wow, that looks really good." Yes, it does.

The TV setup in the room with full daylight outside - the TV is very bright, no problems seeing it with it so backlit. The reflections seem to be more subdued than they were on the Tosh CRT it replaced.



Closeup. Warning, the blacks aren't as crushed as they seem here. There's no way to convey the dynamic range present here in a single photo.



Here's an example of why it's impossible to show the full Dynamic Range in one photo. Here's three different photos, shot one "stop" apart.

Exposed for Highlights - blacks in bezel and screen are absolutely black (0,0,0 RGB values) for the most part:


Midrange - blacks are absolutely black here and there, in both the bezel and the screen, with the bezel winning out slightly


Exposed for Blacks - all blacks here are "grey" now, but you can see that the screen is producing a very dark black.


Exposed for Blacks, with exposure pushed 3 stops in software - you can see the differences a bit better here


Love the set so far.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbbb View Post

I plan to watch a blue ray dvd on my new LNT5281F tomorrow for the first time.I'm sure it will be a major improvement from the HD I'm watching right now on regular HD channels.
I remember when I watched HD in the past on other BIG screen plasma and LCD HDTV's you could see the sweat on peoples faces and the lines on their faces when I watched them in HD.NOT ON THIS TV.It sucks !!!
There are a few last chances I'll give this set before I accept any serious buyers.I just ordered an hdmi 1.3 cable,which I think is very compatible with this set...and
am watching a blue ray dvd on the tv for the first time tomorrow...am not sure if I'll still have this set next month..if I do..I'll have it calibrated professionally...but will that make the picture so sharp I will see sweat on their faces or lines on their faces when watching anHD show? You tell me.


Regular HD channels are 1080i, no pores. I plugged in my new Blu-ray/HD-DVD multi-player and put in Heroes Season 1 HD-DVD, no pores. I went into the menu on the player and found that it is set to 1080i because most sets can't handle 1080p. I changed the setting to 1080p, and Bam; Pores! One heck of a great picture in 1080p. I'm very impressed. I had to turn down the contrast to 82, turn up the brightness to 62, and turn the color down to 50 to calibrate it for my room. Best picture I've ever seen. This TV is staying.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:09 PM
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Does anyone here have a ps3 that can do a simple test for me on their 81?

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Old 09-08-2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idjiit View Post

Picked my 4081 up this afternoon, have spent around an hour or so tweaking it. So far, I love it. After I honed things in for this shot from King Kong, my wife remarked "Wow, that looks really good." Yes, it does.

The TV setup in the room with full daylight outside - the TV is very bright, no problems seeing it with it so backlit. The reflections seem to be more subdued than they were on the Tosh CRT it replaced.



Closeup. Warning, the blacks aren't as crushed as they seem here. There's no way to convey the dynamic range present here in a single photo.



Here's an example of why it's impossible to show the full Dynamic Range in one photo. Here's three different photos, shot one "stop" apart.

Exposed for Highlights - blacks in bezel and screen are absolutely black (0,0,0 RGB values) for the most part:


Midrange - blacks are absolutely black here and there, in both the bezel and the screen, with the bezel winning out slightly


Exposed for Blacks - all blacks here are "grey" now, but you can see that the screen is producing a very dark black.


Exposed for Blacks, with exposure pushed 3 stops in software - you can see the differences a bit better here


Love the set so far.

The set makes your room look even cooler than before. Have fun idj! Marilyn Manson is not the antichrist by the way! Thing is though, most LCDs in that lighting will look equally black.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

Does anyone here have a ps3 that can do a simple test for me on their 81?

I'll be able to on Thursday. What did you want to check?

Thanks,

Spooky
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Spooky View Post

I'll be able to on Thursday. What did you want to check?

it will require you to download the ninja gaiden demo and test out some motion blurr just pm me when you get the ps3 and i will let you know the details. Anyone else with a ps3 and an 81?

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Old 09-09-2007, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ____ View Post

Sharp 150% NTSC color gamut solved, it's a led lcd afterall :

"Chi Mei, currently the fifth largest panel producer in the world, is currently displaying its own 52-inch FullHD television, which can cover up to 150 percent of the NTSC colour space, at the IFA in Berlin. "

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews_tv1069.html

"2. Hyper-color is achieved through the use of domain RGB settings to adjust brightness characteristics and achieve a 160% NTSC (u'-v') dynamic color gamut. Compared with conventional LED backlighting, this feature can provide a 45% wider gamut with the same illumination."

http://www.cmo.com.tw/opencms/cmo/me...=6&__locale=en

Damn how genius, takes the dynamic lightning to a hole new level.
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Old 09-09-2007, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ____ View Post

Sharp 150% NTSC color gamut solved, it's a led lcd afterall :

"Chi Mei, currently the fifth largest panel producer in the world, is currently displaying its own 52-inch FullHD television, which can cover up to 150 percent of the NTSC colour space, at the IFA in Berlin. "

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews_tv1069.html

"2. Hyper-color is achieved through the use of domain RGB settings to adjust brightness characteristics and achieve a 160% NTSC (u'-v') dynamic color gamut. Compared with conventional LED backlighting, this feature can provide a 45% wider gamut with the same illumination."

http://www.cmo.com.tw/opencms/cmo/me...=6&__locale=en

While this looks terrific Chi Mei has a way of building prototypes they display that are amazing that don't seem to come to market. I believe they displayed the QUAD 1080P panel for nearly two years and it was thought they'd have it to market in a 57" size yet nothing has manifested in the marketplace. Not poo pooing or doubting but damn it would be nice if when we get these PR's that something would follow beyond hype. It may also come badged with someone else's name on it since they are big time panel builders for others. I would guess they'll be at CES.

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Old 09-09-2007, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Actually it does matter. You start with good 8 bit data. If you manipulate it with only 8 bits of precision you are guaranteed to have less than the 8 bits you started with. The extra bits are to reduce the error from the calculation not to add extra bits to the original data.

UMR,

Doesn't the ten bit processing quadruple the level or steps of gray that lead to greater shadow details and color depth?

I would bet this is probably an LCD that would benefit more than many others from a ISF Calibration and will look forward to your results as it seems many have expressed difficulty in getting the right settings and perhaps present you with quite a challenge.

Will look forward to what you think of this panel.

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Old 09-09-2007, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

UMR,

Doesn't the ten bit processing quadruple the level or steps of gray that lead to greater shadow details and color depth?

It would if the source was 10 bit, but we only have 8 bit sources.
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixmdude View Post

My 5281 arrives from BB tomorrow. I looked at 4 places on Samsung's website, the US page, the CA page, the US .pdf specs file, and the CA .pdf specs file, and all 4 areas have conflicting information:

500,000:1 contrast or 100:000:1 contrast
15x2 speakers or 10x2 speakers
LED Backlighting or Cold Cathode Flourescent Lamps

Every combination of the above 6 options are mixed depending on which location you are looking on Samsung's own websites.

I called Samsung and spoke to a guy who said it was:

100:000:1
10x2
LED

At least 1 out of 3 was the better choice! The other two are false advertising I guess.

He also said he thought the 81 was 60 Hz

Well, the label on the front of my television clearly states 500,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio. See the picture below. Also, I do believe this television is 60Hz, but I would not be surprised if this display uses the LED backlight at 120Hz to improve on the 3:2 pulldown. I've seen articles about an improvement on the 3:2 pulldown to display some frames at a lower light level. But, I can't confirm that this display is doing this. You would need to look at a true 24fps source (such as 1080p24) and compare to see what it is doing. And even then it would be difficult to tell. And it's anyone's guess as to what happens to a broadcast movie that was originally 24fps, then converted to 30fps for broadcast. Probably nothing. You're probably stuck with the broadcast 3:2 pulldown... Check out this article and read the section entitled "isn't that used in Fishing"

-Valkyrie-MT
Samsung LN-T5281F

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Old 09-09-2007, 10:54 AM
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These exstra bits is required to reduce posterization with extended gamuts such as xvYCC. So it dosn't matter if we only have 8bit sources.
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