Official Samsung 81 Series LNT-xx81f Owner's Thread Part II - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2242 Old 08-31-2007, 09:58 PM
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Crutchfield.

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post #182 of 2242 Old 08-31-2007, 11:15 PM
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Neither Crutchfield nor ABT currently have stock.
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post #183 of 2242 Old 08-31-2007, 11:20 PM
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The pop is back in town. But a slight rise in black level had to be. Now it seems contrast is more apparent even on bright scenes. Backlight up, contrast down. Man it's taking awhile but this set is finally starting to look like something I was expecting at all times. A calibration work out... if you will. We're still away from that picture, but I'm starting to see some remnants of a light.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #184 of 2242 Old 08-31-2007, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

The pop is back in town. But a slight rise in black level had to be. Now it seems contrast is more apparent even on bright scenes. Backlight up, contrast down. Man it's taking awhile but this set is finally starting to look like something I was expecting at all times. A calibration work out... if you will. We're still away from that picture, but I'm starting to see some remnants of a light.

Stay in those trenches...fight the good fight! Good Luck!!!
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post #185 of 2242 Old 08-31-2007, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserEdge View Post


In terms of input to screen lag I really don't notice any. It feels like there may be a very slight lag.

Great to have a CRT comparison. Waiting for pics! BTW these reaction tests (if you have time to try one) might give a ballpark figure on how much lag there is compared to the CRT. Average LCD monitors have anywhere from 2-60ms more lag.

http://www.fetchfido.co.uk/games/rea...ction_test.htm
http://www.exploratorium.edu/baseball/reactiontime.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/

P.S they're kinda fun
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post #186 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

The pop is back in town. But a slight rise in black level had to be. Now it seems contrast is more apparent even on bright scenes. Backlight up, contrast down. Man it's taking awhile but this set is finally starting to look like something I was expecting at all times. A calibration work out... if you will. We're still away from that picture, but I'm starting to see some remnants of a light.

Keep fighting. Draw some blood. That might get the red out!.

Go Johnny, Go.

So, are you getting won over, and thinking of keeping it?. Any chance of posting a picture or two that shows how the "pop" has improved?.

..
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post #187 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Man, Johnny.

You have been busting your hump on that thing! Don't ever think we don't appreciate it. I, for one, am very grateful to you for all your efforts and all your posts, and I think I can say with confidence that many others are, too.

One important question has arisen in my mind over the past few days. Does the 81 have a CMS (Color Management System)? I'm nearly set for purchasing a bunch of calibration equipment (Eye1 Display2 colorimeter, GetGray and/or Avia DVD, and HCFR), but my hope is that I can calibrate more than just the gray scale with this; I want to get the colors dialed in, too.

I read the users manual on the 4081F and there are a TON of hidden controls on these things. For example, I had no idea there was a control called "HDMI Black Level" until Valkyrie-MT mentioned it, and I had no idea there was a control called "My Color Control" along with the RGB gain/offset controls until I read about it just last night. I saw in the "My Color Control" setting that we can indeed fine-tune the greens and blues and what they call "pink," which surely cannot be the same as Magenta (it isn't just Red, is it???). We already have basic RGB controls in the "Gamma" setting, which looks rather crude, so perhaps "My Color Control" just offers some fine-tuning layered on top of that??? Idunno... I saw no controls for the secondary colors anywhere; just primaries. My impression right now is that the controls are finely tuned enough to provide a genuine, though limited, CMS. Does anyone know for sure? Could controls, like full secondary color controls, be available from the service menu? This is a big deal, because Johnny's biggest recurring complaint has been the screwy colors on this thing.

-David

P.S.: Johnny, are you using the wide color space or do you have it set to auto?

-David

I'm sort of wondering myself, although for a different set. I'm going to calibrate another Sammy set (not 81 series) soon and I'll let you know what the color controls do.
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post #188 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 09:39 AM
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I phoned Samsung and they told me the 81F has no color management system,only their DLP's do.

Marc
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post #189 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4100 View Post

It seems that the set that Valkyrie-MT has is pretty much dialed in. I wonder if his is a later set that maybe has some updates that other first adopters didn't get. Maybe compare software/hardware versions of the sets.

I have not really done much yet. I turned on the LED SmartLighting and a few other basics but this pretty much out of the box performance otherwise. My version is 1003 July 20, 2007.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbarg View Post

Thanks for your post. It convinced me along w/some other private responses from the early adopters to go forward w/my purchase. In the end, these real world experiences are more important than theoretical plasma absolutionists.

re" use as a PC. I have one of the "quiet" fanless Geoforce cards in my PC of recent vintage. Unless I keep an external fan blowing thru the front bay, that card overheats and causes occasional artifacts on the monitor. So make sure your PC case is cooled effectively (which might defeat the purpose of having a fanless video card).

Other than gaming, is there any use for hooking up a PC to the Samsung? I can't see doing MS Office on it (maybe if I was one of those giants from Gullivers' Travels). How good could text look?

If you hook up the Samsung to PC, then I guess you can avoid the cost of TIVO using/one of those HD PVR cards like WinTV. TIVO is probably a lot easier though - like a dedicated computer. (Or run Windows media center a/k/a Vista Ultimate and record through that).

Actually, I have an HTPC (aka Home Theatre PC, which is basically just a PC with wireless keyboard/mouse that conneccts to a TV. I also have Windows Vista Home Premium which I can use as a DVR. It also serves as my DVD and future BlueRay player.

Oh, and I do use MS office on it. My wife and I use it to check mail and Skype family. It's actually quite handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaMike View Post

Valkyrie
What sources are you using for video? Do you have a DVR and other tuner as well as the HTPC? Does the picture look any different by source?
Mike

All HDMI. Yes, I have a dual tuner HD DVR - this DircTV HR20. Yes, it does seem to look different by source, but that is because my settings are different per source. This television save independent settings per source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahui168 View Post

My question is "Was your TV free of defects when you received delivery?" Is this an issue with Samsung quality control, the retailer (Samsung Authorized Internet Dealer) or is this an unlucky singular incident? Thanks!

I just took a closer look and there is not a single scratch or mark on mine. My box was also quite pristine, so I comfortable that it has not been mishandled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CadJoe View Post

WAIT, the 81 is no different in features, except added features.

I know a 4661 with only ONE HDMI cable from a Comcast Cable box is able to watch MULTIPLE channels with one source on Main & PIP, having NO ATSC or coax connected.

In reading the book, I agree with your analysis, that's pretty much what the book says, but I KNOW this works via an HDMI cable.

Will let you know what he says, but he DID tell me he CAN watch multiple channels, however he can't view the digital description bar, which makes me think the internal tuner is seeing the HDMI cable feed. I did ask him to check and see if he can watch a scrambled channel like HBO in the PIP.

EDIT: I just found out he is using the PIP button on the CABLE box remote. The comcast HD box must be dynamically creating its OWN PIP screen, with its OWN built in Dual Tuner, and he said he has never programmed the remote to control a Samsung. So I told him to push the PIP button on the TV remote, and see if he gets a 2nd PIP box.

Ah, so others may be interested in whether QAM works on the PIP. I can confirm that the PIP does NOT support ATSC as an off-air source since I just tried this (in addition to not supporting HDMI).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

So is the TV passing mutlichannel audio from it's optical out to your reciever?

It is definitely passing the digital audio through the TV. That works. But, I have not checked to see that the 5.1 channel audio signal is preserved. Although, I don't see why it would not be... So, if I pass DTS out of my computer, is my receiver getting the full DTS? I will check on this...

-Valkyrie-MT
Samsung LN-T5281F
DirecTV HR20 Satellite receiver
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post #190 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 09:45 AM
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Valkyrie-MT, do you have any shots of a PC game in action on the 81? Vista looks good at least.
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post #191 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie-MT View Post

It is definitely passing the digital audio through the TV. That works. But, I have not checked to see that the 5.1 channel audio signal is preserved. Although, I don't see why it would not be...

The manual says:
5.1CH audio is possible when the TV is connected to an antenna.
When the COMPONENT IN or HDMI IN jacks are connected, the Optical jack on the TV outputs 2 channel audio only. If you want to hear 5.1 channel audio, connect the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack on the DVD player or Cable/Satellite Box directly to an Amplifier or Home Theater, not the TV.
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post #192 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

I was also wondering where all of these settings are as i couldn't find an hdmi black level setting or a motionflow setting or an xvycc setting. These aren't in the service menu are they?

HDMI Black Level is in the "Setup" tab of the user menu. Although, it seems to be disabled under certain circumstances (even when using an HDMI input).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Does this tv have the horrid gloss black frame? I can't tell from the pictures I've seen and I'm interested in seeing this lcd.

It does have a gloss frame. I would have preferred matte, but it really doesn't bother me and the wife kinda likes it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfp View Post

In my locale, a QAM tuner can bring in all unscrambled local digital cable stations.

So my plan A was to split my cable before the Comcast HD box, using HDMI for the main window and the split-off coax cable connected to the RF input, so the QAM tuner could bring in unscrambled local digital stations for the PIP window.

Also, in my locale, I can pick up all local OTA digital stations with an amplified loop antenna from towers 30 miles away. So, my plan B was to use the antenna connected to the RF input and the ATSC tuner in the Samsung to get digital stations in the PIP window.

But, ever since the xx65, the Samsung manuals say "Analog broadcast only" in the PIP window (around p. 31). Months from now, analog PIP will be pretty useless.

In general, since the Comcast box is actually one tuner sending digital signals via HDMI, why can't the QAM and ATSC tuners in the Samsung pick up a digital signal for the PIP window?

But now you give me some hope with the statement "ONLY -ATSC or NTSC off-air coax. " Could you try my plan B, using a loop antenna for OTA, to allow digital stations in the PIP window?

Reading the XBR4 manual, I think both my plans would work on that model. Can someone tell me if I'm out of luck there, too.

Thanks

OK I must issue a retraction!!! ATSC does NOT work on the PIP. Only NTSC. I had assumed that the Air input source meant both ATSC and NTSC. I connected my OTA (Over the Air) antenna to the TV, and did the channel scan. I picked up tons of ATSC HD channels and NTSC channels, and it worked great on the main screen, but in PIP only the NTSC analog worked. This is really unbelievable to me because OTA NTSC will stop being broadcast in a year or so right? There is some hope that QAM may work over PIP, but I'm not holding my breath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

when you buy the 81 or 71 series tvs, does the stand come already attached to tv or do you have to put it together at home.

Stand is attached.

-Valkyrie-MT
Samsung LN-T5281F
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post #193 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoth View Post

The manual says:
5.1CH audio is possible when the TV is connected to an antenna.
When the COMPONENT IN or HDMI IN jacks are connected, the Optical jack on the TV outputs 2 channel audio only. If you want to hear 5.1 channel audio, connect the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack on the DVD player or Cable/Satellite Box directly to an Amplifier or Home Theater, not the TV.

Crap, that blows my whole plan if that is true. But I fear you may be right...

-Valkyrie-MT
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post #194 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Man, Johnny.

You have been busting your hump on that thing! Don't ever think we don't appreciate it. I, for one, am very grateful to you for all your efforts and all your posts, and I think I can say with confidence that many others are, too.

One important question has arisen in my mind over the past few days. Does the 81 have a CMS (Color Management System)? I'm nearly set for purchasing a bunch of calibration equipment (Eye1 Display2 colorimeter, GetGray and/or Avia DVD, and HCFR), but my hope is that I can calibrate more than just the gray scale with this; I want to get the colors dialed in, too.

I read the users manual on the 4081F and there are a TON of hidden controls on these things. For example, I had no idea there was a control called "HDMI Black Level" until Valkyrie-MT mentioned it, and I had no idea there was a control called "My Color Control" along with the RGB gain/offset controls until I read about it just last night. I saw in the "My Color Control" setting that we can indeed fine-tune the greens and blues and what they call "pink," which surely cannot be the same as Magenta (it isn't just Red, is it???). We already have basic RGB controls in the "Gamma" setting, which looks rather crude, so perhaps "My Color Control" just offers some fine-tuning layered on top of that??? Idunno... I saw no controls for the secondary colors anywhere; just primaries. My impression right now is that the controls are finely tuned enough to provide a genuine, though limited, CMS. Does anyone know for sure? Could controls, like full secondary color controls, be available from the service menu? This is a big deal, because Johnny's biggest recurring complaint has been the screwy colors on this thing.

-David

P.S.: Johnny, are you using the wide color space or do you have it set to auto?

-David

I've been to My Color Control and haven't been able to figure out how to use it. Also w/o an accurate color measurement messing with RGB has been mixed at best. I still can't get red to look right. And since that's the first color that the human eye is attracted to.. its kind of a big deal.

I have a couple of references. My Time Warner Cable guide box (the C button should be red). Any scene in a movie where a 'deep crimson' should be there (I noticed this in that last scene in Rush Hour1). And now the Xbox 360 layout and any game that has a red lifebar. The color of the life bar when my brother was playing Bioshock showed this as well. (Other than that though Bioshock looked friggin amazing... color accuracy isn't as important with a game.)

When I watch on my DLP Samsung which reds are excellent, those reds are a crimson red. I can't mimic that on the Samsung 81 so far. I've tried both Auto and Wide... which both don't seem exactly right. My color control didn't seem to change much. RGB settings midly effected it. Tint does a little as well. What ends up happening is I have to go a little further back on the color saturation then I want. The picture is much more to my tastes now though.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #195 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 11:12 AM
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In Europe there is now going on in Berlin biggest exhibtion of audiovisual stuff called IFA.

You may wish to look at a pic from Samsung booth, marketing the difference between the conventional and LED BL:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/samsu...h-tour/375340/

No LD artefacts visible

BTW, it seems there will be only two LCD LD sets sold in Europe under the F96 names, 52" for 4 999 euro , and 70" for 32 999 euro.
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post #196 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Keep fighting. Draw some blood. That might get the red out!.

Go Johnny, Go.

So, are you getting won over, and thinking of keeping it?. Any chance of posting a picture or two that shows how the "pop" has improved?.

..

Hahah. A johnny be good reference. I am far from won over. But this set is proving the best in the dark performer TV I've ever owned that wasn't fat. Regardless of what I think of the colors, now that bright scenes aren't really flat... its creeping up there. Before I was sure I wouldn't take this set over my previous 5070. Right now it's not a sure bet, but I don't think I'm impressed enough to be pissy fun over it.

Sure I can complain about the flawed dimming system but that same system is giving me blacks that I could only dream about when I had my 5070 or any of my other TV sets. So yes, alot of hit and miss. I give Samsung props for pushing for something like this, and the only reason my impressions seem so negative is because I treat all displays that way. Ask anyone over at the Pioneer forum what my firsts posts were about my 5071.

Turning "smartled" off reminds me why I could've never been totally satisified with past plasmas and LCDs... so even with the iffies, this set really is something else man. And if you're a real pusher for that true deep inky black your options are really limited at the moment.

If I were to compare Sampo's impressions pre-release vs. the Pioneer Kuros crowd's point of view pre-release. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle right now. It's neither horrible nor is it something that I can say has blown my socks off in all departments. I was kind of hoping for a TV that could do the later.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #197 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

In Europe there is now going on in Berlin biggest exhibtion of audiovisual stuff called IFA.

You may wish to look at a pic from Samsung booth, marketing the difference between the conventional and LED BL:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/samsu...h-tour/375340/

No LD artefacts visible

BTW, it seems there will be only two LCD LD sets sold in Europe under the F96 names, 52" for 4 999 euro , and 70" for 32 999 euro.

Its too dark to see any LD artifacts as well as its a photograph. The problems show up with actual video material when the images move and brightness levels change.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #198 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Hahah. A johnny be good reference. I am far from won over. But this set is proving the best in the dark performer TV I've ever owned that wasn't fat. Regardless of what I think of the colors, now that bright scenes aren't really flat... its creeping up there. Before I was sure I wouldn't take this set over my previous 5070. Right now it's not a sure bet, but I don't think I'm impressed enough to be pissy fun over it.

Sure I can complain about the flawed dimming system but that same system is giving me blacks that I could only dream about when I had my 5070 or any of my other TV sets. So yes, alot of hit and miss. I give Samsung props for pushing for something like this, and the only reason my impressions seem so negative is because I treat all displays that way. Ask anyone over at the Pioneer forum what my firsts posts were about my 5071.

Turning "smartled" off reminds me why I could've never been totally satisified with past plasmas and LCDs... so even with the iffies, this set really is something else man. And if you're a real pusher for that true deep inky black your options are really limited at the moment.

If I were to compare Sampo's impressions pre-release vs. the Pioneer Kuros crowd's point of view pre-release. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle right now. It's neither horrible nor is it something that I can say has blown my socks off in all departments. I was kind of hoping for a TV that could do the later.

Johnny, Not trying to be a wise guy but damn if everytime I read your reviews over the past week you go from one paragraph to another with a sort of Schizophrenia or Ambivalence - one moment glowing and the next not up to snuff over and over again to such an extent it's confusing and cannot truly tell what you think doing these comparisons and I don't know if this is by design or intent.

Are you truly ambivalent on this panel or does it carry over to other panels you compare in your search for the Grail?

Bottom Line after all this time what do you think? If you had to return it tomorrow or live with it? Seems like trying to pick a wife and not run away at the wedding to play the field. So are you still playing the field?

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #199 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:38 PM
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johnnyb
can you comment on
how much of a performance increase this is over the 71\\65 series or xbr4s?

is it truly worth the hassle of selling my current 65f plus adding a 1000 for this set?
I'm pretty happy with the black levels on my set, I do get alot of crush and loose out on alot of detail because of having to turn the brightness down due to the pillars.
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post #200 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Johnny, Not trying to be a wise guy but damn if everytime I read your reviews over the past week you go from one paragraph to another with a sort of Schizophrenia or Ambivalence - one moment glowing and the next not up to snuff over and over again to such an extent it's confusing and cannot truly tell what you think doing these comparisons and I don't know if this is by design or intent.

Are you truly ambivalent on this panel or does it carry over to other panels you compare in your search for the Grail?

Bottom Line after all this time what do you think? If you had to return it tomorrow or live with it? Seems like trying to pick a wife and not run away at the wedding to play the field. So are you still playing the field?

It is what it is. Two personalities. That's exactly what I feel with this set. And that's how it is performing in my eyes. It's hit and miss. This set is the Jekyll and Hyde of TVs. One minute I'm going... WOW this is why everyone is so excited. The next I'm going... this is pretty mediocre. I paid 4000 bucks for this? Until someone gets this in house and watches and tinkers with it... you won't understand. My reviews are skitzo cause this TV is SKITZO. One minute I am watching it produce blacks that are annihlating almost 99 percent of TVs out there but another minute I see something totally screwy like a dimming artifact or crush. One minute I watch 300 and its the most contrasty picture I've ever seen. The next minute I watch 40 year old virgin and I'd rather be watching my Samsung DLP.

If sharpjunkie's decision to return the set even though he found alot of great stuff about it is an indiciation, that's where I am leaning. But I am not giving up just yet. I got a few weeks.

I don't feel as if I can give you an honest and final answer because of my incremental improvements in the settings that last few days. Trust me... I feel just as psycho as the people trying to make sense of where I am at. This TV is so complex, dynamic, and ya know unstable that I feel anything can happen. So bare with me. I only type what I see.

If the TV decides to throw me a curveball, my opinion will curve as well. And I'll knock that sucker out of the park.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #201 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSET View Post

johnnyb
can you comment on
how much of a performance increase this is over the 71\\65 series or xbr4s?

is it truly worth the hassle of selling my current 65f plus adding a 1000 for this set?
I'm pretty happy with the black levels on my set, I do get alot of crush and loose out on alot of detail because of having to turn the brightness down due to the pillars.

If you are happy w/ the black levels on the 65 then no. It is not much of a performance increase. Well... unless you see motion blur.

I prefer the colors on the 65 series tremendously over what I am getting w/ the 81 out of the box.

Don't sell it. My IMO.

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post #202 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 03:00 PM
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Well, I don't know whether there are any published reports of the resolution of the Backlight, but I know there is some interest. For the 52" LN-T5281F, I believe the LED array is 8x12. That is 8 high and 12 wide. Then I found that if I look at just the right angle, I can see a glow around my mouse pointer on a black screen. When I move the mouse, I can see the transition from one LED to the next. So I started counting and came up with 8 x 12. Notice the glow around the mouse pointer in the image below. Now, again, don't judge this TV by this image. I increased the shutter time to get this and the glow is nowhere near this easy to see. I used a long exposure on the camera and tried to hold still. I also picked up a ton of glare.



But when looking directly or almost directly at the display, it's not noticeable. One cool thing is that I set the screen to all black, then turned off the power. I counld not visually see any difference between on and off. My fear though is that most "black bars" on TV and other video sources are not truly black...

-Valkyrie-MT
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post #203 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Hi Johnny,

Mmm. I now begin to suspect that my best bet for tweaking my own display when it arrives will be through using the ATI control panel on my computer. That thing has some very, very finely grained individual RGB settings on it. I haven't been able to find any controls for secondary colors there, but those might be in the Catalyst control panel that I never installed. I'm sure the nVidias offer at least as much if not more.

Have you tried hooking the tv up to a computer yet? I'd love to see what sort of results you can get that way. My guess is the ideal result will be gained first by doing all that one can with the display itself and then, where things just don't gel properly (as with your reds) go into the computer's display panel and try to correct any remaining flaws.

Has anyone tried this yet?

Yours,

David

Nope. But it sounds like a great idea. Too bad I have no way to do it at the moment.

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post #204 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Really? No desktop machine??? You can do it just over VGA--an HDMI connection, while ideal, is in no way necessary.

Yours,

David

I do have a desktop and I do have a really long DVI. Just no DVI to HDMI connection. I am not the biggest fan of HTPCs, so I don't know how helpful it would be anyway.

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post #205 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 03:15 PM
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What should I set film mode to: on, off
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post #206 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 04:18 PM
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The last thing that should be poor on this tv is its color performance. This is really puzzling as LEDs generate more accurate light than CCFLs so the colors should be more saturated and natural. And yet, the owner feedback so far suggests that the colors are not only not much better than on other tvs, but they they look worse. That's just impossible and, until someone finds out what the heck is wrong with these colors, I'm not sure we can be certain of what this set can really do. Fix the color and that might cure some other problems...maybe.

There was a rumor not too long ago that contradicted earlier reports that 81 Series used RGB LEDs. If these sets really use inferior white LEDs, then that might have something to do with poor color performance. Anyone brave enough to open up the set and check the BLU? Just kidding.

One thing that's seems obvious in retrospect is that, while the local dimming technology is brilliant, there can be absolutely no substitute for having a high resolution dimming zone matrix. The algorithm, as clever as it is, is just unable to extract all the subtle shadow details hidden in a source by using BLUs with only ~100 dimming zones. Besides, I still think that bit depths on these zones are limited to just few bits. This technology is just so crippled in this first generation I wish next summer would come next month. Anything below 8-bit depth and 500 dimming zones isn't going to cut it, I'm afraid. Anything above 10-12-bit and 1000-2000 dimming zones would probably yield diminishing returns, though. Can't wait for what Philips, LG, Samsung and Sharp show up with at CES08.
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post #207 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 05:00 PM
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I tested game mode on/off of the LN-T4081 today. Here is the test that was conducted.
  • Secs 1.11 running on WinXP
  • LN-T4081 and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070 cloned at 1920X1080 60Hz progressive from a EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra
  • Picutres taken with a Cannon 30d

I apoligize for not setting to ISO 500 or higher... I just forgot, but you can still see the results. I have not edited the images in away so they serve as photographic evidence.

In all the picks the LN-T4081 is on the left and the Diamond Pro 2070 is on the right.

First is the screen a screen shot with game mode off.


Next are two shots with game mode on. The difference is 16ms on the first picture and 31ms on the second picture. I did not get a 16ms picture with game mode off.



I took more screen shots than this, but as far as I can tell turning game mode on doesn't really make any difference. Given a refresh of 60 hz there is +/- 7ms variability with this testing method. My conclusion is the LN-T4081 has a latency in the neighborhood of 16ms-31ms.
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post #208 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 05:32 PM
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I did some testing to evaluate motion blur on the LN-T4081. Here are the testing conditions.

HL2 Episode 1 running on WinXP
V-Sync enabled in HL2 Episode 1
LN-T4081 and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070 cloned at 1920X1080 60Hz progressive from a EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra
Picutres taken with a Cannon 30d set to FStop 125 and ISO 500

In the testing I rotated the mouse very fast in circles to produce the desired motion for testing.

First is a picture with no motion from HL2 Episode 1. This image serves a baseline for comparison.


The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to on for the LN-T4081.



The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to off for the LN-T4081.



Now for my comments on these pictures. Comparing the pictures it obvious there is motion blur on the LN-T4081. Most of the time there looks to be 1 primary image followed by a secondary ghost image. I picked the one pick where I could see more than one ghost out of all 20 or so pictures I took while testing.

Looking at the 2070 in all of the pictures you can clearly see the 60 Hz progression scanning that is taking place by the CRT.

In terms of comparing LED Motion Plus on/off I came to the following conclusion. The ghost images are noticable dimmer with LED motion plus on. This was the case in comparing all the pictures that I took.

To me it looks like we need to shorten the response time by half for 60Hz progressive refresh rate. My geuss is LED motion plus is not doing quite what it should be doing because the LCD pixel response time is still not fast enough. Based on the pictures I would say the average pixel response time is really over 22ms or so.

I am going to test and see if game mode effects motion blurring. My geuss there is likely no difference.
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post #209 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post

Hi vtms,
Actually, I spoke with someone at Samsung and they confirmed that the 81s *do* use white LEDs. Perhaps that's where some of Johnny's problems are coming from, yes?

I'm almost relieved that Samsung uses white LEDs (white LED = blue LED with yellow phosphor coating). That could very well explain the green-yellow push I saw in the store and in the pictures posted by JohnnyB and sharpjunkie. On the other hand, first pictures posted by farscaperkevin had beautiful, almost "OLEDy" colors. This is weird.

Quote:
Still, I do find it moderately encouraging that several other new owners have reported very solid color settings on their displays. Naruto and ValkyrieMT in particular seem to be doing just fine with them. Shinraven, while not an actual owner yet, also sounded happy with the colors he saw. Is it possible that Johnny got some kind of lemon, here? I mean, might his factory settings be off or something?? He does seem to be having quite a battle with that thing.

I'm having the same schizophrenic reaction as Westa reading all these comments even though I realize they reflect only the nature of this set and nothing else. Yes, it is not impossible JohnnyB and sharpjunkie might have gotten sets with bad LEDs especially since they were not RGB LEDs. Anything is possible with these 1st gen. sets.
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post #210 of 2242 Old 09-01-2007, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserEdge View Post

I did some testing to evaluate motion blur on the LN-T4081. Here are the testing conditions.

HL2 Episode 1 running on WinXP
V-Sync enabled in HL2 Episode 1
LN-T4081 and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070 cloned at 1920X1080 60Hz progressive from a EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra
Picutres taken with a Cannon 30d set to FStop 125 and ISO 500

In the testing I rotated the mouse very fast in circles to produce the desired motion for testing.

First is a picture with no motion from HL2 Episode 1. This image serves a baseline for comparison.


The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to on for the LN-T4081.



The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to off for the LN-T4081.



Now for my comments on these pictures. Comparing the pictures it obvious there is motion blur on the LN-T4081. Most of the time there looks to be 1 primary image followed by a secondary ghost image. I picked the one pick where I could see more than one ghost out of all 20 or so pictures I took while testing.

Looking at the 2070 in all of the pictures you can clearly see the 60 Hz progression scanning that is taking place by the CRT.

In terms of comparing LED Motion Plus on/off I came to the following conclusion. The ghost images are noticable dimmer with LED motion plus on. This was the case in comparing all the pictures that I took.

To me it looks like we need to shorten the response time by half for 60Hz progressive refresh rate. My geuss is LED motion plus is not doing quite what it should be doing because the LCD pixel response time is still not fast enough. Based on the pictures I would say the average pixel response time is really over 22ms or so.

I am going to test and see if game mode effects motion blurring. My geuss there is likely no difference.

But doesn't the whole picture itself get dimmer?

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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