LCD HDTV with low input lag - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-23-2007, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted a similar topic in the Xbox forum but I think that may have been the wrong place to ask. Feel free to read through it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=908007&page=2

Basically the issue is that I want an HDTV mainly for the Xbox 360, but I still want to be able to play several older game systems on it, without input lag. I am pretty sure that it is impossible to have NO lag, so my goal is to reduce it as much as possible, without buying any extravagant external devices. The last two days, I brought my Gamecube into both Best Buy and Circuit City, and tested several LCD TVs, as well as a couple plasmas. I have no laptop so a Gamecube with a precision game (I used Smash Bros. because I am very familiar with it) was the best test I could do. Also, the Gamecube can output both 480i and 480p, although I did almost all of my testing at 480i. There are many details I could share, but the gist of it is that the Toshiba seemed to have the lowest lag, with the Samsung almost tied, but not quite. Of course this is not scientific but I am pretty sure I am not too far off.
The models:
1. Toshiba 42HL67. This is a 42", 720p LCD for $1400 at Circuit City.
2. Samsung LNT4042H. This is a 40", 720p LCD for $1350 at Circuit City.
3. Samsung LNT4061F. This is a 40" 1080p LCD for $1800 at Best Buy.

The 3rd option is basically only for if I was going to get 1080p, but there is not a compelling reason for me to. Also, I am aware of a test done that claimed LG had the lowest lag, but the ones I tested did not seem that great, and I couldn't find their game mode. I heard once that the input had to be labelled "game". I tried this and it did not help.

I was hoping you experts could tell me which of these has the lowest lag. If people don't know, I suppose I would still like to hear which is "better". Also, if people know any good deals on these TV or at least TVs of the same model and performance, I would like to know.

Thanks a lot.

As a side note, a third, cheap TV also had really low lag, but unfortunately could not be switched into 4:3 mode. This was the Vizio VX37LHDTV10A. This is a 37", 720p LCD for $800 at Circuit City. If you are in the same boat as me and are on a limited budget, and also don't care about the 4:3 thing, I would recommend this, at least for lag-free gaming.
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post #2 of 8 Old 09-24-2007, 07:04 AM
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I did a barrage of testing against my CRT and in fact the Sharp GP1U Vyper Game inputs do work to reduce input lag to near imperceptable levels. The only problem now is slight motion blur with many LCDs. If you can get one with 120hz, low input lag and faster than 6ms response, your good but you won't find one to meet all those specs except with Sharp. Unfortunately Sharp LCD's have so many screen manufacturing issues it takes away your enjoyment of your purchase.

A lot of people seem to be happy with the Sharp LC-32GP1U. I have a Sharp LC-37GP1U model. Both are 1080P with full time side game ports for component/composite and HDMI. Believe me there is NO lag. My testing confirmed an object moving across the screen for example there was maybe a 3/8 of an inch difference between the Sharp and a CRT compared to several inches difference on most LCD which would be very visible lag.

I also confirmed from Sharp schematics and since I've seen the inside of my LCD that the Sharp GP1U has higher speed integrated controllers AND a shortened path to the video/display board. This means as fast as your game can output signals there will be virtually no delay to the screen.

Samsung is the only other manufacturer to claim game mode stating 30% improvement. They didn't say 30% over what?? So if normal input lag is 2 seconds only a 30% improvement on that?? That still sucks compared to Sharp. I'm not selling Sharp, go read the GP1U forums as I've been bashing them a lot for quality but there is no input lag, only normal slight motion blur which you'll find on all non-120hz LCDs.

I honestly would wait until next CES if you can to purchase anything. Potentially Sharp may update their game model to include 4ms response and 120hz with game inputs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDragon View Post

I posted a similar topic in the Xbox forum but I think that may have been the wrong place to ask. Feel free to read through it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=908007&page=2

Basically the issue is that I want an HDTV mainly for the Xbox 360, but I still want to be able to play several older game systems on it, without input lag. I am pretty sure that it is impossible to have NO lag, so my goal is to reduce it as much as possible, without buying any extravagant external devices. The last two days, I brought my Gamecube into both Best Buy and Circuit City, and tested several LCD TVs, as well as a couple plasmas. I have no laptop so a Gamecube with a precision game (I used Smash Bros. because I am very familiar with it) was the best test I could do. Also, the Gamecube can output both 480i and 480p, although I did almost all of my testing at 480i. There are many details I could share, but the gist of it is that the Toshiba seemed to have the lowest lag, with the Samsung almost tied, but not quite. Of course this is not scientific but I am pretty sure I am not too far off.
The models:
1. Toshiba 42HL67. This is a 42", 720p LCD for $1400 at Circuit City.
2. Samsung LNT4042H. This is a 40", 720p LCD for $1350 at Circuit City.
3. Samsung LNT4061F. This is a 40" 1080p LCD for $1800 at Best Buy.

The 3rd option is basically only for if I was going to get 1080p, but there is not a compelling reason for me to. Also, I am aware of a test done that claimed LG had the lowest lag, but the ones I tested did not seem that great, and I couldn't find their game mode. I heard once that the input had to be labelled "game". I tried this and it did not help.

I was hoping you experts could tell me which of these has the lowest lag. If people don't know, I suppose I would still like to hear which is "better". Also, if people know any good deals on these TV or at least TVs of the same model and performance, I would like to know.

Thanks a lot.

As a side note, a third, cheap TV also had really low lag, but unfortunately could not be switched into 4:3 mode. This was the Vizio VX37LHDTV10A. This is a 37", 720p LCD for $800 at Circuit City. If you are in the same boat as me and are on a limited budget, and also don't care about the 4:3 thing, I would recommend this, at least for lag-free gaming.

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post #3 of 8 Old 09-24-2007, 12:09 PM
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JVC is the best - see link here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11550838

This post has a seperate link to a brief visual test posted on the gizmodo website, and JVC beats the Sharp by a hair, with Sony and another panel furthur behind (clearly seen in the demo).
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-24-2007, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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How about the Toshiba, because I swear that was better than anything else I tried, including a Sharp.
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-25-2007, 08:53 AM
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I imagine that was a D62 or D64 on the end. The gaming model GP1U beats the D62-D92 because it has faster chipsets to handle the input and I've confirmed this by looking at the D62-D92 technical schematics.

Considering that the JVC is new and has a lot more features, I would not at all look at a Sharp GP1U gaming model with the better featured 37" JVC coming out. Also Sharp has no gaming model higher than 37".


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Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

JVC is the best - see link here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11550838

This post has a seperate link to a brief visual test posted on the gizmodo website, and JVC beats the Sharp by a hair, with Sony and another panel furthur behind (clearly seen in the demo).

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post #6 of 8 Old 09-25-2007, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDragon View Post

How about the Toshiba, because I swear that was better than anything else I tried, including a Sharp.

Visit the link, the Toshiba [model I forgot in my post above] came in LAST in that test.
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post #7 of 8 Old 09-26-2007, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, but that was not an upscaled signal if it was a PS3. I was concerned with signals upscaled from 480i/p. I didn't realize there was such a lag at a native resolution.
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-27-2007, 07:01 AM
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It is speculated that the Sharp 120hz models aren't true 120hz meaning full time 120hz. It's like the equivelent of active 4 wheel drive versus passive.

It would be interesting to see the new JVC against the Sharp GP1U gaming model. Considering the JVC is the latest, you can't beat it's 4.5ms response and 120hz though. The GP1U only has 6ms response and 60hz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN View Post

JVC is the best - see link here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11550838

This post has a seperate link to a brief visual test posted on the gizmodo website, and JVC beats the Sharp by a hair, with Sony and another panel furthur behind (clearly seen in the demo).

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