Sony Motion Flow - On or Off? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Just curious what your guys thoughts are regarding Sony's Motion Flow technology?
I bought a new 46" Sony Bravia D Series, which has Motion Flow, and when I turn it up to "High" I'm getting a lot of artifacts.
On low, the movements of people sometimes seem unnatural.

Also, when I switch the TV to "Theatre Mode", it automatically deactivates motion flow.
Now, in the manual, it says that "Theatre Mode" shows the film as it was meant to be, so why what's the point of having Motion Flow if it's clearly not how films are "meant to be" watched?

Do you guys leave motion flow on or off?
I'm really battling to find what I prefer.

Thanks a lot
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post #2 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionZA View Post

Just curious what your guys thoughts are regarding Sony's Motion Flow technology?
I bought a new 46" Sony Bravia D Series, which has Motion Flow, and when I turn it up to "High" I'm getting a lot of artifacts.
On low, the movements of people sometimes seem unnatural.

Also, when I switch the TV to "Theatre Mode", it automatically deactivates motion flow.
Now, in the manual, it says that "Theatre Mode" shows the film as it was meant to be, so why what's the point of having Motion Flow if it's clearly not how films are "meant to be" watched?

Do you guys leave motion flow on or off?
I'm really battling to find what I prefer.

Thanks a lot

Same reason that people dont want black bars. To make things clearer. I leave it off.


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post #4 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 10:52 AM
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Because most movies are made with 24 frames per second. Motionflow recreates it at 120 frames per second. It will be too unusual for us to watch movies like that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionZA View Post

Just curious what your guys thoughts are regarding Sony's Motion Flow technology?
I bought a new 46" Sony Bravia D Series, which has Motion Flow, and when I turn it up to "High" I'm getting a lot of artifacts.
On low, the movements of people sometimes seem unnatural.

Also, when I switch the TV to "Theatre Mode", it automatically deactivates motion flow.
Now, in the manual, it says that "Theatre Mode" shows the film as it was meant to be, so why what's the point of having Motion Flow if it's clearly not how films are "meant to be" watched?

Do you guys leave motion flow on or off?
I'm really battling to find what I prefer.

Thanks a lot

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post #5 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by yuimyt View Post

Because most movies are made with 24 frames per second. Motionflow recreates it at 120 frames per second. It will be too unusual for us to watch movies like that.

Yes, it makes them look like soap operas, live video feeds and other content shot on video. Although, some people like that look an consider it to be "3D". I've read some people say that ever since they experienced it for the first time, they cannot live without it.

To me, that look does work for certain types of movies, such as CGI animation and stuff like Ultra Violet, which are almost CGI animation. The 120 Hz interpolation also works great for a lot of video games, unless you start getting too many artifacts. It does work good with most of my games though. It almost makes them look like they are running at a faster frame rate, which, when it comes to video games, is a very good thing.

I don't even own an XBR4, but I extensively tested one out at a store and own a Samsung 4671f, which features a very similar 120 Hz interpolation tech, which has many of the same draw-backs, but is still a very nice optional feature to have.
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post #6 of 34 Old 10-23-2007, 12:42 PM
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Yes, you can get used to it.... I think it is up to you. Every person has different preference.
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post #7 of 34 Old 10-25-2007, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice guys

I've been playing with it the last few days, trying it both on and off.
I think I prefer it to be on.
I'm noticing it to be particularly effective with camera panning.
I really like how everything is silky smooth, I just think it takes some getting used to because my old TV didn't have it.

Anyways, playing with all these settings on my TV is driving me crazy trying to find out what I prefer
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post #8 of 34 Old 10-25-2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionZA View Post

Anyways, playing with all these settings on my TV is driving me crazy trying to find out what I prefer

This is a common thing with new TVs, when you spend more time tweaking the settings than watching the content. It usually goes away after about a month or so.
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post #9 of 34 Old 10-25-2007, 01:09 PM
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I used to use a WinDVD feature that did the same thing - I liked seeing movies a second time with the feature on, but I always watched a new movie in its natural state the first time. One interesting byproduct to the feature is it can really make special effects look fake - I watched the original, non-Special Edition Star Wars, and you could see the wobble of the models as they hung from wires. Or in Shaolin Soccer, the CGI soccer ball totally doesn't fit in with the rest of the picture.

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post #10 of 34 Old 10-29-2010, 08:56 PM
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I'm going through this same issue myself. Motion flow was created for national geographic type stuff as well as sports or other high speed video. Not really intended for feature films as it does slightly change the 24fps that most features are shot at and IMO gives it a fake, soap opera type feel. It's really funny how much of a difference a little change in frame rate makes in terms of feel and ambiance.

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post #11 of 34 Old 10-30-2010, 03:19 AM
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It is not just increase in Hz but also increase in fps (people tend to misunderstand the two) as they interpolated and added additional frames in between. Probably that's why it make fake things look even weirder when you interpolate them.
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post #12 of 34 Old 10-30-2010, 05:15 AM
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If you hace a 2010 model sony motion flow on. You get 700 motion resolution instead of 300 and there is NO soap opera effect on a new sony.

Previous model years off is better do to the introduction of soap opera effect.

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post #13 of 34 Old 10-30-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionZA View Post

Just curious what your guys thoughts are regarding Sony's Motion Flow technology?
I bought a new 46" Sony Bravia D Series, which has Motion Flow, and when I turn it up to "High" I'm getting a lot of artifacts.
On low, the movements of people sometimes seem unnatural.

Also, when I switch the TV to "Theatre Mode", it automatically deactivates motion flow.
Now, in the manual, it says that "Theatre Mode" shows the film as it was meant to be, so why what's the point of having Motion Flow if it's clearly not how films are "meant to be" watched?

Do you guys leave motion flow on or off?
I'm really battling to find what I prefer.

Thanks a lot

Once you have switched to ''Theatre Mode'' you can change any setting you want including MotionFlow.

''Theatre Mode'' is Sony's optimum setting for movies (DVD & BLURAY).
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post #14 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 09:20 AM
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Sorry, I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to give my opinion on motionflow.

I love the motionflow on my Sony 52V5100. I never had it turned on in the past because I read the negative things about it back when I was looking for calibration settings. That was until a few buddies and I went to the BX on base a month ago and noticed the Holiday Sony display with one of the new Sony HDTV's set up running a split screen Iron Man 2 demo. Half the screen had motionflow on and the other half without. The picture was night and day. The half with motionflow looked as if we were right there with the actors. Too good to be true and I assumed it was one of those DVD/Bluray demo's that intentionally made half the screen look worse so that the other appeared 1000 times better, but alas it was not so.

Later that day I got home and turned on the motionflow. I was not completely happy with the look of HD cable TV. With a few days of tweaking and calibrating to get it set just right I still wasn't 100% convinced. Then I thought "Hey, lets try a Bluray movie" so I popped in Transformers 2 and AAHHHH *Angels Singing* it was a miracle! It was like my eyes opened to an entirely new world. The picture is so lifelike and just as a previous poster said, it is almost 3D. The depth and clarity is incredible and looks as if you are actually there in the movie. This is what true HD looks like and I don't know how I ever watched movies without it. I will admit that watching HD cable did take some getting used to at first. I assume it is because of the motionflow conflicting with the digital artifacts from the cable signal. Simple solution, just turn it off until you want it again.

My suggestion to anyone unsure of the motionflow technology is to just give it a try. I am not sure what people mean by it looking like a "soap opera?" Nor do I understand why they say it makes CGI look fake? Just the opposite is true in my opinion. Sure, it may appear odd at first but that is because we are so accustomed to watching TV a certain way, flat and no depth. We have watched movies that way for so long that we think that's what it's supposed to look like. This technology brings movies to life, and immerses you in the experience. Isn't that what what watching movies is all about?
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post #15 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 11:55 AM
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agree with everything above. This issue however is as divided as plasma vs lcd of 6 years ago, or Nintendo vs. Sega of the early 90's. If you like it, don't let anybody tell you it's wrong, and if you don't like it, don't use it.
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post #16 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

If you hace a 2010 model sony motion flow on. You get 700 motion resolution instead of 300 and there is NO soap opera effect on a new sony.

Previous model years off is better do to the introduction of soap opera effect.

which motionflow setting? Clear, Standard, Clear 1, Clear 2? what's the difference btw clear and standard? I can see a really lite soap opera effect with motionflow in some scenes. I have the Sony 60NX810.
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post #17 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 12:12 PM
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***We have watched movies that way for so long that we think that's what it's supposed to look like.***

That's because it IS how it's supposed to look. Films are shot at 24fps, and that lends it the cinematic texture we all know and love. Inserting frames into that is completely ruining the artistry of the film, and indeed, how the filmmaker intends to present it. Go to a movie theater and you'll see what a film should look like, not some overly processed, smoothed out garbage.
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post #18 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterAndSky View Post

***We have watched movies that way for so long that we think that's what it's supposed to look like.***

That's because it IS how it's supposed to look. Films are shot at 24fps, and that lends it the cinematic texture we all know and love. Inserting frames into that is completely ruining the artistry of the film, and indeed, how the filmmaker intends to present it. Go to a movie theater and you'll see what a film should look like, not some overly processed, smoothed out garbage.

Could not agree more. I have a Sony 60NX810, and I cannot stand what MotionFlow (or at least the full-bore Smooth setting) does to movies. Extremely distracting, soap opera effect gone nuts. It is certainly not true that Sony has done away with this effect on movies in its 2010 sets.

On the other hand, Smooth doesn't really bother me for sports like hockey, or for animation. And the other settings, or at least Clear 1, seem fine for movies to me.
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post #19 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 01:27 PM
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Some of these threads are unbelievable! If you like it, use it. If you don't like it, don't use it. Or, you can adjust it somewhere in between... End of discussion.
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post #20 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Some of these threads are unbelievable! If you like it, use it. If you don't like it, don't use it. Or, you can adjust it somewhere in between... End of discussion.

you could say that about most threads on AVS
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post #21 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 01:59 PM
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you could say that about most threads on AVS

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post #22 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 03:09 PM
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When watching satellite TV i use Motionflow Standard/Filmmode Off,when watching movies - dvd's and bluray's - i use Motionflow Off/Filmmode Auto 1.

And i set Noise Reduction to Medium,xbr8 has a superb Noise Reduction it helps to reduce background motion artifacts..

I used Clear for a while (xbr8 Clear = a combination of backlightscanning/motion interpolation) but PQ suffers to much when using it
.
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post #23 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 03:11 PM
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Luckily, though, we have a few referees like BoilerJim to tell us when to stop discussing things. Don't know what we'd do without them.
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post #24 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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Luckily, though, we have a few referees like BoilerJim to tell us when to stop discussing things. Don't know what we'd do without them.

Every game needs a good referee.
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post #25 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 10:10 PM
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No matter where you go there they are. Sorry if I offended anyone with my take on the Sony Motion Flow. Just wanted to share my opinion in case someone else wanted to try it out. FYI, I do visit the movie theaters at least 5 times a year and I gotta say that although I do enjoy the experience I have yet to see a theater match the look of my home theater. IMHO watching a movie in a theater cannot compete with the viewing clarity of a properly calibrated modern HDTV. Everyone who has seen my setup are amazed at the clarity and say it is the most realistic TV they have ever seen. I only wish I had set it up sooner. Instead of being....well maybe you should just try it out, you may like it.
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post #26 of 34 Old 12-28-2010, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyejh View Post

No matter where you go there they are. Sorry if I offended anyone with my take on the Sony Motion Flow. Just wanted to share my opinion in case someone else wanted to try it out. FYI, I do visit the movie theaters at least 5 times a year and I gotta say that although I do enjoy the experience I have yet to see a theater match the look of my home theater. IMHO watching a movie in a theater cannot compete with the viewing clarity of a properly calibrated modern HDTV. Everyone who has seen my setup are amazed at the clarity and say it is the most realistic TV they have ever seen. I only wish I had set it up sooner. Instead of being....well maybe you should just try it out, you may like it.

In one dedicated home theater room, I have an ISF-calibrated 82 inch 3D Mits DLP, with reQuest Martin Logan fronts, a Martin Logan Logos center channel, Martin Logan surrounds and a 2300 watt Velodyne HGS sub. In another, I have a Sony KDL-60NX810 3D TV, with a Denon/Boston Acoustics 5.1 system.

Neither system holds a candle to the showing of Tron 3D I saw last night in a true Imax theater, from 10th row, center. Awesome.

But home ain't bad, considering..
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post #27 of 34 Old 12-29-2010, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyejh View Post

No matter where you go there they are. Sorry if I offended anyone with my take on the Sony Motion Flow. Just wanted to share my opinion in case someone else wanted to try it out. FYI, I do visit the movie theaters at least 5 times a year and I gotta say that although I do enjoy the experience I have yet to see a theater match the look of my home theater. IMHO watching a movie in a theater cannot compete with the viewing clarity of a properly calibrated modern HDTV. Everyone who has seen my setup are amazed at the clarity and say it is the most realistic TV they have ever seen. I only wish I had set it up sooner. Instead of being....well maybe you should just try it out, you may like it.

You certainly didn't offend me. I just put my two cents in as I am prone to do. Some people just take this stuff more seriously than others. Like I've always said, it's just a frickin' TV.
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post #28 of 34 Old 12-29-2010, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M. View Post

In one dedicated home theater room, I have an ISF-calibrated 82 inch 3D Mits DLP, with reQuest Martin Logan fronts, a Martin Logan Logos center channel, Martin Logan surrounds and a 2300 watt Velodyne HGS sub. In another, I have a Sony KDL-60NX810 3D TV, with a Denon/Boston Acoustics 5.1 system.

Neither system holds a candle to the showing of Tron 3D I saw last night in a true Imax theater, from 10th row, center. Awesome.

But home ain't bad, considering..


Sound like an incredible setup. I almost went with the 82" Mits when my old 52 Mits went out, instead I picked up the 72" Samsung LED DLP because of the LED. I actually have 2 of the Samsung LED DLP's but the other is only the 62". The red LED went out which is why I am using the Sony thus leading me to trying out the Motionflow and CineMotion. I replaced the red LED but don't think I want to switch back yet. I have been wanting to pick up the Mits 3D box and try out the 3D on the Samsung's. Just gotta find the time to finish the basement so I can enjoy it. I would love to see Tron at an IMAX in 3D but I have a hard time seeing 3D at a normal theater. I bet it is amazing.
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post #29 of 34 Old 03-24-2011, 06:30 PM
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Can someone explain the difference between a 240 Hz refresh rate, and Sony's new Motionflow deal? I've read the posts about Motionflow but dont see how they compare. Trying to decide whether to buy a new or older model, dont know if 240 Hz rate has been improved on or just a weaker software replacement...
Thnx!
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post #30 of 34 Old 09-23-2011, 01:06 AM
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I have a KDL-60EX700 and I've been trying to figure out if I should leave motionflow ON or OFF for gaming on my Xbox360. I couldn't see any problems if I leave it on, but instead it does eliminate some of the ghosting produced by fast movement in certain video games.
What do you recommend?
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