Wall Mounting w/Horizontal Studs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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So according to the manual of the simplicity full motion wall mount I just bought from costco..I need to install it on vertical studs (at least in the picture). Only problem is the only studs I could find in the wall where my TV would be are all horizontal. That and the spacing between the two horizontal studs I believe are larger than the mount, meaning only the top or bottom half of the mount could go into the studs.

My TV is roughly 75 lbs (42" LCD Vizio TV). Would it be safe to just mount the bottom or top half to a stud, and the other half use dry mount anchors? or am I asking for a tv ripping from my wall to come crashing into my ent. center? Anyway just trying to avoid having to cut into my wall to place vertical studs. If placing vertical studs in the wall is my only option for using this mount...does anyone know a good website I can use with good DIY instructions on how to do that? I'll fully admit i'm new to the whole DIY thing when it comes to walls/dry wall, but willing to learn whatever I can.

~G
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post #2 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 10:47 AM
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I would be concerned with not having at least 2 top and 2 bottom attachments to studs. You may be able to get away with just the top 2, but I wouldn't risk it for $1K of nice HDTV.

How far apart are your vertical studs? They are typically 16" and sometimes 24". I mounted two Vizios (42 and 52). It was my first time and quite a learning experience. I used mounts from Monoprice.com that were easy to install (1 flush, 1 articulating).

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Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

So according to the manual of the simplicity full motion wall mount I just bought from costco..I need to install it on vertical studs (at least in the picture). Only problem is the only studs I could find in the wall where my TV would be are all horizontal. That and the spacing between the two horizontal studs I believe are larger than the mount, meaning only the top or bottom half of the mount could go into the studs.

My TV is roughly 75 lbs (42" LCD Vizio TV). Would it be safe to just mount the bottom or top half to a stud, and the other half use dry mount anchors? or am I asking for a tv ripping from my wall to come crashing into my ent. center? Anyway just trying to avoid having to cut into my wall to place vertical studs. If placing vertical studs in the wall is my only option for using this mount...does anyone know a good website I can use with good DIY instructions on how to do that? I'll fully admit i'm new to the whole DIY thing when it comes to walls/dry wall, but willing to learn whatever I can.

~G

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post #3 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 11:16 AM
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I mounted my 32" on the wall only finding one vertical stud (for the right) and using anchors for the left side.

But I wouldn't mount my 46" LCD without finding another stud (for the left). I don't think sheetrock is made to handle the weight.

I did find this, which may give you an idea:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=978564

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A967958260

Mongo only pawn in game of life...
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post #4 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 11:21 AM
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Personally--I would be concerned with having horizontal studs--what in the world is keeping your house/roof up???

What kind of house/building do you live in?

How do you know they are horizontal studs?

If you are using a stud finder--are you sure you aren't finding an electrical run horizontally?
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post #5 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 11:25 AM
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Another thought--buy a small piece of 3/4" plywood--cut it the size you need so that it spans the 2 studs. Bolt the mount to the piece of plywood, then use long screws (2.5" minimum if you have 1/2 drywall) to screw the piece of plywood to the two studs. If 3/4" is too thin you feel--use a piece of 2x10. You can then paint the board either the wall color or the color of the mount. It is much easier/less expensive than cutting open the wall.
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post #6 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

Personally--I would be concerned with having horizontal studs--what in the world is keeping your house/roof up???

What kind of house/building do you live in?

How do you know they are horizontal studs?

If you are using a stud finder--are you sure you aren't finding an electrical run horizontally?

That's what's throwing me off. On the other walls the electric stud finder i'm using is having no problem finding vertical studs, but on this wall..I can go straight across and it won't find anything. But up and down it'll find studs evenly placed it's really throwing me off. I'm gonna try and buy another electric stud finder (this one is a cheapy one that came with my drill) and see if it makes a difference.
~G
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post #7 of 74 Old 01-16-2008, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

Another thought--buy a small piece of 3/4" plywood--cut it the size you need so that it spans the 2 studs. Bolt the mount to the piece of plywood, then use long screws (2.5" minimum if you have 1/2 drywall) to screw the piece of plywood to the two studs. If 3/4" is too thin you feel--use a piece of 2x10. You can then paint the board either the wall color or the color of the mount. It is much easier/less expensive than cutting open the wall.

That's a good thought I never thought about that. Not to mention It'd be thereotically right behind the wall mount, so you really wouldn't see it.
~G
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post #8 of 74 Old 01-15-2009, 06:33 PM
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Here's an FYI - I have an interior wall that I want to mount a 50"/52" TV to without having to cut into the wall, but the studs are 48" apart (typically 16" or 24"). To my knowledge there isn't a company that makes wall mounts for this kind of spacing. So I asked the question and got this reply ....


"You might be able to use rectangular steel tubing (something with a
rectangular or square cross-section). That would hold it's shape better
than flat bar. Another option might be to attach 2x4s right to the wall,
but on the outside, and then mount the TV to that. Either of these
options will cause the TV to stick out a bit from the wall, but I think
that is the only way you will be able to wall-mount a TV without tearing
into the wall."

*NOTE* his suggestion is mount horizontal supports on top of the wall and use lagbolts to screw them into the existing vertical studs.
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post #9 of 74 Old 01-15-2009, 07:34 PM
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soooo--a 48" spacing on the wall? Are you certain of that? What product is over the studs, sheetrock?
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post #10 of 74 Old 01-15-2009, 07:41 PM
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wall between L/R and bath. Wall is thin hard panel, not sheetrock, for double wide Clayton 98'. Tapping wall identifies hollow and solid noise.
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post #11 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prometheis_78063 View Post

wall between L/R and bath. Wall is thin hard panel, not sheetrock, for double wide Clayton 98'. Tapping wall identifies hollow and solid noise.


Ok--what year was the house built? Thin hard panel--you mean like wood paneling 1/8" thick, or something more rigid than that.

I am not familiar with Clayton 98'--can you point me to any info about it?

What is on the wall in the bathroom? Same product?
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post #12 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 10:05 AM
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fwiw,

The above are examples of atypical construction.

I believe Clayton are pre-fab homes with metal studs.

The other issue of HORIZONTAL studs might be explained by home-owner modification dividing a space to create two spaces, and the wall was never intended to bear weight (no permit pulled, thus, no standard method used!)

I would re-consider a wall mount trial. Instead, consider buying a floor stand or table mount. Last, resort is to open the drywall and build a box frame interior to the wall on which you will hang the mount.

For those of us with standard construction, but off center studs as I have, I like the idea of applying a plywood facing or 2X10 across the vertical studs exterior to the drywall. For my safety I will consider two sheets of 3/4 plywood for 112# plasma on omnimout because it cantilevers about 26" away from the wall. Its just not a finished, quality look.

I worked construction and do not fear a re-model, know the materials and tools needed. Don't start a project you can't finish!

Thanks,
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post #13 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 10:25 AM
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Your best bet is going to be the plywood method. Get a 1" or thicker sheet of quality plywood, preferably furniture grade. Screw it into the studs you can find and then you can just paint over it to match the walls, which is why you want the furniture grade plywood otherwise it will look like crap just painting over it. You'll want to get a nice big piece, obviously the width of the studs that you have but you'll also want to double or triple the height of the TV/Mounting bracket because you want to end up mounting the TV in the center of the wood both horizontally and vertically otherwise you risk splitting it if you're too close to the edges.

A 1" sheet of plywood should work fine but if you're uncomfertable with that get 2".
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post #14 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 10:35 AM
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So, if you have horizontal studs, how are you going to hide the wires running to your TV. IMHO, TVs that are mounted on the wall and still have the wires exposed look like six kinds of crap. And, if you're planning on dropping the wires in the wall cavity behind the wallboard, what are you going to do when you hit a horizontal stud? Just food for thought...
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post #15 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 05:21 PM
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I just can't imagine a wall with 48" stud spacing--I would at least get a $20 stud finder and make sure that it isn't just a hollow wall. Even if it was 5/8" sheetrock 48" on center you would have almost a half inch of deflection if you pushed on the wall. The joints would be falling apart--btw what is covering the seams in the material you have? Another place you can look is down on the baseboard (if there is any) When the base gets nailed on they typically would nail the top of the base into the studs--at least something to look at.

Any chance you can take a picture of the wall?
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post #16 of 74 Old 01-18-2009, 07:27 PM
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If I where you I would just cut open the wall. You could stay about 16" from the floor so you dont have to mess around with the baseboard etc, and I would go about 16" above the top of the tv mount or stay just above it a little.

I would then go get some 2x4's toe nail them in the the bottom plate (I would use screws faster and much easier). put them where you need them for the wall mount. Patch up the hole. Thats is of course if you have drywall.

I would like to see a pic also to help you out better I could offer other suggestions with seeing the wall. Thanks

If its really 48" spacing theres something in the wall. Thats why they had to span it that far could be a plumbing wall. That horizontal spacing may not even be tied in to the vertical studs. Might have to open it up to see anyways.

I do metal studs and drywall and there is times you just cant get a stud in the wall and you just use cutoff studs to hold the joint together which they might have done.
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post #17 of 74 Old 01-27-2009, 08:23 PM
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Okay gang, Here's the good: I invested $10 and bought a stud finder and found out that yes indeed there are studs every 16" not 48" as originally thought! This opens up a new realm of possibility, specifically a 50"to 52" 1080p mounted on the wall (I'm leaning toward a Samsung 650)! And now the bad.......

the wall is an interior wall between the living room and the bathroom. Waterlines and electrical (GFI) wires run through the wall. The stud finder also picks up the "hot" 110V AC wiring 4"-18" from the actual wiring.

Assuming the 110V wiring runs through the studs, would it be ok/safe/recommended to drill into the studs? Removing the center 4'X8' panel would be cumbersome and labor intensive and not something I'm willing to do. Having it done would prolly prove expensive....

FWIW - I agree I would prolly not be happy w/a 32" and like the a idea of a 50"/52" only nowthe viewing distance increases from 10' to 11.5' because it's a wall mount. The unit was built in 98, is 28' x 52'. The 4'x8' panels are about 1/8" thick and quite rigid (I've never had to remove one). I would guess it to be a manmade material vice wood.
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post #18 of 74 Old 01-28-2009, 05:52 AM
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You should be just fine screwing into the studs. Knowing that it is a plubing wall you can take a couple precautions. Find a couple of studs on the wall near the floor with the stud finder--a few feet left or right of where you want to hang the TV. Then take a tape measure and extend it out 12' or so covering the area you want to install the TV on. If you have a construction-ish tape measure there will be a mark (or a red box) on your tape measure every 16". If not, then just line up the end of your tape measure with one stud and let it lay on the floor locked open. Then start testing the studs where you think you will screw in to--verify they are on 16". Does that make sense? For example--stand at the center of where the screen will be. Walk to your left about five feet. Find a stud in the wall. Place the end of the tape measure at that location on the floor and extend the tape measure 8' back the other direction. Now, check the studs at 32", 48", and 64"--are they all right on the numbers?

The point of that is to verify your stud finder is picking up a stud and not water pipes or your vent. It doesn't guarentee anything--but it helps. If the studs seem to move off layout--that is suggesting that a stud may have been moved for plumbing purposes--hopefully you don't run into that. Another thing you can check for is can you tell what kind of fasteners are holding that panel product on? If it is only 1/8" thick it would be pretty difficult to sink a fastener and cover it completely.

Here's a mount:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=182-343

But you will also want to buy some of your own fasteners for hanging the mount onto the screen. Most of the lag bolts that come with universal mounts are counting on at least a 1/2 wallboard of some sort, and they usually make them a little longer in case it is 3/4" or something like that. You really only need a solid inch of bit into the stud--it doesn't seem like much but I'm sure you could hold up your entire TV and mount with a single 1/4" lag bolt with a solid inch of bite. So if you pick up a few 1/4" (3/16" would work as well) lag bolts 1.5" long you will be fine. It is in the electrical code that wires need to be run at least 1" from the edge of a stud--and if they are closer than that then the has to be a metal strike plate over the edge of the stud--in which case you will have a bear of a time trying to get a lag to go in. Again it isn't a guarentee--but nothing is without cutting the wall open.

Any other questions feel free to ask!
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post #19 of 74 Old 01-29-2009, 05:36 PM
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For some reason my response from yesterday didn't get posted! Mpotoka thanks for all the info especially the link for the mount! I'm in the market for 60" light cherry tv stand, but compartments (min 6 preferably 9) must be a min of 18" wide. I'm looking at one from homedecorators.com item #43356, but it's only 5 compartments.....

The wall is only 8' wide, 1/2 panel (2') + 1 panel (4') + 1/2 panel wide. Both the L/R walls and bathroom walls use the same material. The baths GFI outlet is about 4' off the floor slightly above the sink. I get a stud indication every 16" from the rightmost panel near the hallway going right to left thru the full panel in the middle. I also get the 110V indicator in the center (full) panel where I want to mount the TV, but not on the side panels.

I can't say what type of fasteners the panels have (as I don't see any) but the panels are rigid about 1/8"-1/4" thick, kind of a hardboard(?). The seams every 4' are covered by a paper type strip that matches the design on the wall panels about 1" wide and 1/8" thick. The panels are mounted lenghtwise bottom to top L to R increasing 7'-10' due to a vaulted ceiling. There is also 6"-8"W accent strip running L to R to keep furniture from rubbing the wall that is nail gunned with brads. Also mock trim running L to R on top and bottom of the panel secured by brads (gunned). The unit is a clayton 28'x52' Dream home model made in 98'.....hope this helps! I didn't see any mention of metal studs in the plans
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post #20 of 74 Old 01-30-2009, 08:17 AM
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Those trim pieces gunned on with nails--those nails should line up with where your stud finder shows studs or not?

There is probably a wire running along side of the stud you want to screw into. Work very slowly with the stud finder coming from either direction to figure out what side of the stud the wire is on. Also work slowly to verify where the stud exactly is--you should be able to narrow it down to about a 1" width (even though the stud is 1.5"--stud finders usually only "see" about 1" of it if you go slowly enough)

Any other questions let me know--I can't point to towards a cabinet--you could make your own!
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post #21 of 74 Old 01-31-2009, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

You should be just fine screwing into the studs. Knowing that it is a plubing wall you can take a couple precautions. Find a couple of studs on the wall near the floor with the stud finder--a few feet left or right of where you want to hang the TV. Then take a tape measure and extend it out 12' or so covering the area you want to install the TV on. If you have a construction-ish tape measure there will be a mark (or a red box) on your tape measure every 16". If not, then just line up the end of your tape measure with one stud and let it lay on the floor locked open. Then start testing the studs where you think you will screw in to--verify they are on 16". Does that make sense? For example--stand at the center of where the screen will be. Walk to your left about five feet. Find a stud in the wall. Place the end of the tape measure at that location on the floor and extend the tape measure 8' back the other direction. Now, check the studs at 32", 48", and 64"--are they all right on the numbers?

The point of that is to verify your stud finder is picking up a stud and not water pipes or your vent. It doesn't guarentee anything--but it helps. If the studs seem to move off layout--that is suggesting that a stud may have been moved for plumbing purposes--hopefully you don't run into that. Another thing you can check for is can you tell what kind of fasteners are holding that panel product on? If it is only 1/8" thick it would be pretty difficult to sink a fastener and cover it completely.

Here's a mount:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=182-343

But you will also want to buy some of your own fasteners for hanging the mount onto the screen. Most of the lag bolts that come with universal mounts are counting on at least a 1/2 wallboard of some sort, and they usually make them a little longer in case it is 3/4" or something like that. You really only need a solid inch of bit into the stud--it doesn't seem like much but I'm sure you could hold up your entire TV and mount with a single 1/4" lag bolt with a solid inch of bite. So if you pick up a few 1/4" (3/16" would work as well) lag bolts 1.5" long you will be fine. It is in the electrical code that wires need to be run at least 1" from the edge of a stud--and if they are closer than that then the has to be a metal strike plate over the edge of the stud--in which case you will have a bear of a time trying to get a lag to go in. Again it isn't a guarentee--but nothing is without cutting the wall open.

Any other questions feel free to ask!

Just thought you might like to know that I found that exact mount for less at this company. I just finished installing three of these in my last job. Apparently same mount less money from this company :http://www.erseaudio.com/VideoProducts/WMB60-175-T15

Hope this helps.
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post #22 of 74 Old 02-10-2009, 06:43 PM
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Thanks again, I always like saving money! Pictures of the interior wall are forthcoming once I figure out how to post them on here.

The A/C 110V indicator on the stud finder in pretty vague in that it'll alarm anywhere from 4"-18" from the hot wiring. Doesn't narrow it down much!

p.s. I bought and assembled the 60' cherry tv stand I mentioned earlier. Nice, sturdy a bit low though only being 16" high.... It's more of a medium oak than a light cherry though, hardly if any red.....
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post #23 of 74 Old 02-28-2009, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

soooo--a 48" spacing on the wall? Are you certain of that? What product is over the studs, sheetrock?

I purchased a 50" Pioneer Kuro last night (you won't believe the deal!). I drilled a few holes in a different wall and in fact the covering is 1/4" possibly 3/8" sheetrock with a fancy vinyl covering. The pics I took didn't come out, re-doing them. Remember my $10 studfinder found studs every 16" not 48" as orig thought. I'm looking at a Cheetahmounts.com wall mount (APTMMB or APTMM2B (diff?)) and will order 10' HDMI cables well in advance

anything I've forgotten?
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post #24 of 74 Old 02-28-2009, 10:39 PM
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so you have established there are studs...what ever kind of wall covering you have is most likely nailed or screwed to those studs especially if you do have some kind of drywall. If you are worried about missing the stud and getting into the AC or the plumbing go get yourself a decent magnet. Everywhere you have a vertical stud run the the magnet up and down it...it will find the screws/nails used to go into the studs for your drywall and that should give center of the stud.
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post #25 of 74 Old 03-19-2009, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

You should be just fine screwing into the studs. Knowing that it is a plubing wall you can take a couple precautions....
But you will also want to buy some of your own fasteners for hanging the mount onto the screen. Most of the lag bolts that come with universal mounts are counting on at least a 1/2 wallboard of some sort, and they usually make them a little longer in case it is 3/4" or something like that. You really only need a solid inch of bit into the stud--it doesn't seem like much but I'm sure you could hold up your entire TV and mount with a single 1/4" lag bolt with a solid inch of bite. So if you pick up a few 1/4" (3/16" would work as well) lag bolts 1.5" long you will be fine. It is in the electrical code that wires need to be run at least 1" from the edge of a stud--and if they are closer than that then the has to be a metal strike plate over the edge of the stud--in which case you will have a bear of a time trying to get a lag to go in. Again it isn't a guarentee--but nothing is without cutting the wall open.

Any other questions feel free to ask!

Ok! I bought the wallmout, I bought the 50" plasma TV (Pioneer Kuro 5010). 1st - the lag bolts that came with the mount are 5/16" x 1-3/4". 1/4" seemed to small of a diameter, and 3/8" seemed much to big so took your suggestion and got 5/16" x 1-1/2"....I have't drilled a hole yet (kinda reluctant even with the stud footprinting..)

The TV to wallmount bolts are metric (no suprise there) and are 8M x 1.25. The bolts provided are about 1/2" too long. The maker of the mount is outta stock on the shorter bolts, and was very happy to credit my acct $5! They even told me the 8M bolts cannot be bought at Home Depot or Lowe's! You must go to an auto parts store or a hardware store (per the wall mount company). FYI - I bought 6 bolts and 2 "star" washers for less than $3.

I even got a volunteer to help me put it on the wall!

My question is do I use the 1-1/2" or the 1-3/4" lag bolts? I'm guessing it'll depend on the thickness of the sheetrock, right?
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post #26 of 74 Old 03-19-2009, 05:03 PM
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I have a picture, I just need to find out how to upload it.....???
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post #27 of 74 Old 03-20-2009, 05:43 AM
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I usually use photobucket to host my pictures and then post image links here. You are correct that you should base the length of lag bolt by the thickness of the sheetrock. You want a minimum of 1" of bite (don't forget to pre-drill or you could split your stud in half) Your wall mount and the lag bolt washer are probably close to 3/16" thick. If your wall sheating is 3/8" thick then you have just over 1/2" of waste. So I'd go with the 1 3/4" ers

Do you have a level as well? Otherwise you can probably measure up off the floor to get it pretty close.
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post #28 of 74 Old 03-21-2009, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotoka View Post

I usually use photobucket to host my pictures and then post image links here. You are correct that you should base the length of lag bolt by the thickness of the sheetrock. You want a minimum of 1" of bite (don't forget to pre-drill or you could split your stud in half) Your wall mount and the lag bolt washer are probably close to 3/16" thick. If your wall sheating is 3/8" thick then you have just over 1/2" of waste. So I'd go with the 1 3/4" ers

Do you have a level as well? Otherwise you can probably measure up off the floor to get it pretty close.


Given 1/4" sheetrock, wallmount is thin hardly 3/16" more like 1/16" (I've a caliper but it's metric) = 5/16" + 1" bite = 1-5/16" ..wouldn't the 1-1/2" be more than enough based on a 1" bite?

I have 2 contracting levels and 2 mini levels like the one included in the mount kit

I'm also considering running the wires inside the wall using 1-1/2" flex conduit with split sides so you can lay the wiring in instead of feeding it through the tube. I'm looking at 1-power cord, 2-hdmi cables, 2-coax cables, 1-SVIDEO, 1-TOSLINK Optical Digital, 1-component

I wish the TV had a template for installing the wallmount....
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post #29 of 74 Old 03-22-2009, 09:21 AM
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Sounds like you will be fine with either of the lags. You could run the wires in the wall without even putting in any conduit....you can get low-voltage pop-in boxes that don't have a back, then you can get a coverplate meant for wires sticking out. Something like this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=261-152

But I believe I have seen them at Home Depot/Menards now days too.
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post #30 of 74 Old 03-23-2009, 02:05 PM
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