120hz output from computer? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
swargolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I was wondering how can I display 120 hz through dvi->hdmi?
I have a 7800gtx and I'm currently running at 1900x1200.
The tv is a samsung lnt4071f


Also it looks like about a 1/4inch all around the desktop is cut off on the TV. It looks fine on the monitor but on the TV some of the icons are off the screen.


Denon X4000 | Paradigm Studio 60s | Paradigm Studio CC-590 | Dual SVS PB-2000s | Panasonic GT50
swargolet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
borf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
ln-t4669
7900GTX

Even though you can force a 120hz refresh through the Nvidia control panel, I think the TV only takes 60hz refresh rates listed in the manual (pretty sure no TVs accept 120hz inputs but that would be nice). Check the manual for PC compatible timings.
As far as the overscan, make sure the PC is plugged into HDMI-1 on the TV. With the remote, re-name HDMI-1 to "PC" and set picture size to "just scan".

If you already did all that, downloading the latest Nvida driver should fix it (as it did for me). These sets are very PC freindly so you should not have any overscan.
borf is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: WLA CA
Posts: 2,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Sounds like the TV is scaling that resolution, you should run it at it's native res @ 1920x1080. Also that TV is fixed at 60Hz so you will not see 120Hz native in the nVidia control panel. But you can set the OS to whatever refresh rate you want LCD's peak at 240Hz. In the control panel go to custom resolutions and click on the add button there you should see a bunch of refresh rates.

On my LX177 I'm running the dt @ 120Hz just for the performance, because the mouse and games lag @ 60Hz. CO2 supports 120Hz in it's menu so while gaming there is no lag, works great for games that can support those resolutions and refresh rates.

Nimo is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 02:24 PM
Newbie
 
iterations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There seems to often be confusion about this.

The TVs that are marketed as 120Hz (Samsung 71 series, Sony XBR4, Toshiba REGZA etc...) do indeed have 120Hz output in that the panel displayed 120 discreet frames every second, but none of them can actually take a 120Hz input. They take a maximum of 60Hz input and either double the frames or interpolate the extra frames internally.

Try to force your PC to output 60Hz and you are good to go. And by all means run your video output at 1920x1080 not 1920x1200!!! That is why you are getting that wierd 1/4" around your image. The TV is scaling the image internally because it is not the native resolution. When you get your card to output at 1920x1080 you should see a hugely visible improvement in your image. Everything will look much much sharper.

Good luck!
iterations is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
borf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

On my LX177 I'm running the dt @ 120Hz just for the performance, because the mouse and games lag @ 60Hz. CO2 supports 120Hz in it's menu so while gaming there is no lag, works great for games that can support those resolutions and refresh rates.

Nimo are you saying the LX177 accepts 120hz inputs?
borf is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 02-01-2008, 10:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: WLA CA
Posts: 2,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by borf View Post

Nimo are you saying the LX177 accepts 120hz inputs?

No the Lx177's are only 24 and 60 MHz multiscan, 120 MHz can only be achieved in the OS, but the TV by default is fixed at 60 MHz when running it at 120Hz in the OS. Thus the 120Hz Clear Frame interpolation switched on in the TV. ReClock won't sync to a forced 120Hz in the OS but it will sync @ 24Hz native.

I just get the best all around performance with little user input, yea I'm pretty lazy I admit it. But with the PC in this state I can play all my HDM WVC-1 H.264, MPG2 etc without having to screw with any settings, and I don't even use ReClock anymore when viewing any and all HDM material using MPC. I also watch live TV using VLC with pretty good results using the firewire port on my Moto box.

The Reason:
Like I said I'm lazy and I don't want to be foolin with refresh rates all the time when I want to watch TV, or a HD movie. As you know TV is broadcasted at 60Hz here in the US so if I go from a 24p movie and my PC is set to 24Hz I cannot watch live TV due to the refresh rate. Remember I'm using firewire/VLC so it's a live raw feed. At 120Hz set in the TV and 120Hz forced in the OS there is no user input anymore and live media plays more than acceptable using VLC. The HTPC for viewing HDM with no retail sw player just MPC and managed archived HDM.

What type of pull down is it using?
I have no clue as to what these units do, I got into some pretty in depth discussions and have done some testing myself. The only thing I can truly confirm is these TV's can do 24Hz native and can sync to any PC, PS3, HD SA that is 24p capable. As to whether it's doing a 5:5 pull down has never been confirmed. But it doesn't matter because what ever it's doing it does a damn good job and I just don't care, proof is in the performance for me and I for one am totally satisfied with this set up for the first time.

Sorry for the bore, but I had to explain why I do it this way, call me crazy but it works for me.
Nimo is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 02-02-2008, 12:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
borf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Sounds like you found a simple solution to all that switching...think i understand, but what is ("DT @ 120hz).

It seems impossible to find out what these sets are doing w/24hz inputs. Maybe a high-speed camera in burst mode would tell the tale but I don't have one.
borf is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 02-02-2008, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
swargolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 18
ok thanks guys, It kinda sucks that these tvs can't accept 120 hz. you would think it would be easier for the TV to accept 120 hz then for the TV to make 60 into 120 hz but I'm sure samsung has a reason for what they do.

Also I fixed my other problem by changing the picture size to "just scan"


Denon X4000 | Paradigm Studio 60s | Paradigm Studio CC-590 | Dual SVS PB-2000s | Panasonic GT50
swargolet is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 05-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Member
 
dmytty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swargolet View Post

ok thanks guys, It kinda sucks that these tvs can't accept 120 hz. you would think it would be easier for the TV to accept 120 hz then for the TV to make 60 into 120 hz but I'm sure samsung has a reason for what they do.

Sure there's a reason for not allowing 120 Hz input...the reason is a 'Gaming Edition' that will cost a few hundred more.
dmytty is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 02:49 PM
Newbie
 
lem4lin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"I am aware that this Thread is rather old but I still want to make a reply." hahaha technology evolves, so the question that was first asked last year needs to be asked again.

anyways, got this Sharp LC52LE700UN; awesome tv by the way... and sadly, the maximum pc input resolution (as indicated in the owner's manual) is 1600x1200 @ 60hz... do you think it's only if you use the PC cable?

I just purchased a sweet computer rig; amd 955 and radeon hd5850. I haven't received the vid card yet because it's back order everywhere. The HD5850 has an HDMI output... if I can output 1920x1080 @ 120hz, it should work right? Even though the pc input is maxed at 1600x1200?

any way to modify the firmware on the tv to make it work?
lem4lin is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 03:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
If using the VGA interface are you using a VGA cable with all 15 pins connected?
The internal TV processor will create the 120fps display by interpolating between 2 60 Hz frames.
walford is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Newbie
 
lem4lin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i would assume all 15 pins are connected...? do they make vga cables, inputs or outputs with less that 15 pins?

so, in theory, there's no point to achieving more that 60 frames per second if playing a computer game, since the tv creates a bottleneck of 60hz... damn. But, it's still going to look much smoother than playing on a regular computer screen at 75hz or 80hz, since every frame is displayed twice... correct?
lem4lin is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sethk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Unfortunately that is not the case. Displaying the frame twice on a non-scanning display does not make the picture look appreciably smoother. There are a couple of computer displays now available that can accept and display a discrete 120hz input, and that does make the picture look smoother. They also allow 3D in games through the use of Nvidia's wireless polarized glasses.
sethk is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 06:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: east SF bay area, ca
Posts: 3,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

Unfortunately that is not the case. Displaying the frame twice on a non-scanning display does not make the picture look appreciably smoother. There are a couple of computer displays now available that can accept and display a discrete 120hz input, and that does make the picture look smoother. They also allow 3D in games through the use of Nvidia's wireless polarized glasses.


he is correct, HDTV's are not made to accept 120hz inputs because nothing normally used with them can output that anyways

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
frito is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 11-09-2009, 07:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tokerblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem4lin View Post

anyways, got this Sharp LC52LE700UN; awesome tv by the way... and sadly, the maximum pc input resolution (as indicated in the owner's manual) is 1600x1200 @ 60hz... do you think it's only if you use the PC cable?

- That is the maximum resolution it will accept over VGA. The only way to get 1080p to the Sharp is through component or HDMI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lem4lin View Post

I just purchased a sweet computer rig; amd 955 and radeon hd5850. I haven't received the vid card yet because it's back order everywhere. The HD5850 has an HDMI output... if I can output 1920x1080 @ 120hz, it should work right?

- No. The Sharp will not accept a 120Hz signal. No current HDTV will. I have a Sharp 52D85U and was not successful in getting it to accept a 1920x1080@60Hz signal. I read on various threads that people were able to force it to accept a 59Hz signal by using PowerStrip, but I could not get it to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lem4lin View Post

any way to modify the firmware on the tv to make it work?

- Nope.
tokerblue is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 11-10-2009, 06:06 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem4lin View Post

i would assume all 15 pins are connected...? do they make vga cables, inputs or outputs with less that 15 pins?

so, in theory, there's no point to achieving more that 60 frames per second if playing a computer game, since the tv creates a bottleneck of 60hz... damn. But, it's still going to look much smoother than playing on a regular computer screen at 75hz or 80hz, since every frame is displayed twice... correct?

The VGA cables with less then 15 pins connected only send out data. The full 15 pin cables are capable of receiving data with data similiar to EDID data.
A user on a another thread just recently solved what appeared to be the same problem by shifing to a fully pinned cable. In this case,however, it appears that the limit of the display 1600x1200.
walford is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 12-23-2009, 03:27 PM
Member
 
gabs247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hi all, i know this is a bit old, but i was trying to search for this informatino and thought it pertinent.

i have a samsung 40" 650 LCD (Australia) and it has 100hz capability. i have an HTPC connected via DVI to HDMI, and RCA audio...and it says it takes a maximum 60hz signal in the manual.

does anyone know if this tv will reprocess the signal to 100hz like it does for normal TV? obviously, when watching tv through the media center, it's not as smooth as through the native tv tuner...

do i need to get a new video card with HDMI for this model?

a bit confused so any help greatly appreciated,
gabs
gabs247 is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 12-23-2009, 04:29 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The Samsung user manuals available on line are often coutry neutral meaning that they do not properly desribe interfaces, resolutions, and refresh rates in detail for any one counttry.
Possibly your TV is a 100Hz only refresh model which means that if you are sending it 24 fps content it can use 4:4 piull down. Or if you are sending it 50fps content you have the optioin of displying each 50 fps frame twice or using frame interpolation to insert an interpreted additional frame between each pair of 50 fps frames.
Read you specific user's manual closely to understand your optons.
walford is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 12-24-2009, 02:56 PM
Member
 
gabs247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks walford. I rang samsung, and was told the tv will nly provide 100hz for tv, and external sources will be displayed at their native resolution...

i think this is a bit misleading, i would have thought that tvs would be able to increase the refresh rate to their marketed rate for digital inputs...not just for tv signals?
gabs247 is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 12-24-2009, 04:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The Samsung rep you talked to obviously does not know the differnce between what resplutions/refresh rates a TV may receive into its video processors and what actually gets processed and displayed on the scrren.
If you do not live in North America it is very possible that your unit only displays at 100Hz if you have 50Hz power. This would be the equivalent of a 120Hz display only unit here in North America with our 60Hz power.
walford is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 06-11-2013, 12:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Rejhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: North America
Posts: 8,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Alas, this information shows up as a top search result (June 11th, 2013) in Google USA, when searching for 120Hz from PC to TV.
So I'm bumping this still-visited thread to ADD important new information:

There are now many televisions that can accept true 120Hz directly from a computer (in an undocumented way). This is done via ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, or EVGA PIXEL OC utility, or other utilities -- to force 120Hz from a PC to TV. True native 120Hz, not interpolated 120Hz. Includes confirmations via Refresh Rate Multitool!

True 120Hz from PC to TV --
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO




Several success reports include:
-- Vizio M420SL and e3d420vx (1080p at 120Hz from PC to TV)
-- Panasonic VT50 plasma (1080p@120Hz)
-- SEIKI 4K HDTV (1080p@120Hz).
-- Several Sony 50", 60" and 70" models
-- Etc.
Quote:
Successful: Vizio e3d420vx
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
Source: http://120hz.net/showthread.php?852-Managed-to-force-120Hz-on-a-Vizio-e3d420vx
Quote:
Success: Panasonic VT50 plasma
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
Caveat: More heat output
Source: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438092/list-of-hdtvs-with-120hz-native-refresh-ability-forcing-1080p-120hz-via-dvi-or-hdmi-from-computer#post_22576928
Quote:
Confirmed: Seiki 4K HDTV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz
The brand new SEIKI 50″ HDTV with 4K resolution supports 1080p @ 120Hz natively (Multitool confirmed).
seiki4k_720p@133Hz-300x224.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadman5k 
Successful: Vizio M420SL not a 3d TV
Resolution: 1920×1080 at 120 Hz

Using a Asus 3D tv driver I was able to force a 120hz output with windows 7 and my Vizio M420SL system info screen displays 120hz vertical frequency as well as my Catalyst control center. This TV is not a 3D but does have a native LCD refresh rate of 120hz.

Thank you blurbusters for your very helpful information. It took all day to find the right question to ask the great google search engine but when I finally asked “force 120hz pc” I found this page and now I am in 120hz, 42 inch, goodness. Next trick is getting passive 3d working. Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadbuttrue 
Successful: Panasonic 50ST30 plasma
Resolution: 1280×720 @ 120hz.
Source: HardForum post (by sadbuttrue)

The OSD reports 60hz and 3D mode detected. Colours are slightly different but there is no 3D being applied. I have verified that it does show 120 unique frames. So, when you try outputting 120hz to your TV don’t assume the OSD is giving an accurate report. It may say 60hz yet actually be showing 120hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 
Successful: Skyworth 39E780U UHD tv (china market model)
Resolution: 1080p @ 140Hz without frame skipping
Source: Overclock.net review by maarten12100

The overclock results:
UHD 3840×2160 was 30Hz max now 38Hz (up to 40Hz by reducing the extra pixels/blanking in the stream but with minor artifacting)
QFHD 2560×1440 was not there now 82Hz
HD 1920×1080 was 60Hz max now 140Hz (I checked with RRMT Refresh Rate Multi Tool and it actually did it without dropping)
QHD 1280×720 was 60Hz max now 254Hz (checked again with RRMT but it was too fast for my eyes then I took pictures and video)
(NOTE: Cost only $600 in China! Not available outside of China yet at this time.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbitybob 
Successful:
- Sony KDL-50R550A 50″
- Sony KDL-60R550A 60″
- Sony KDL-70R550A 70″
Resolution: 1080p @ 120Hz
Source: AVSFORUM post by bobbitybob

“720p@120hz confirmed working. Kinda funny, before on 1080 I didn't notice a difference figuring I'm just getting too old for this stuff, having never used a 120hz monitor before, but I knew instantly with the real 120hz that it's working. What a huge difference in smoothness and reduction in blur. Just nuts. Tested with RRM (Refresh Rate Multitool) as well to verify.”
(NOTE: 720p was good; 1080p was frameskipping, but may be DVI adaptor (limitation). Best to test using direct HDMI-to-HDMI connection from PC-to-TV.)

(Cited from Comments section of HDTV Refresh Rate HOWTO: True 120Hz from PC to TV)
catonic likes this.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

Mark Rejhon is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 07-24-2013, 03:50 PM
Member
 
jinx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
has anyone on this fourm tried this?
jinx5 is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 10-25-2013, 06:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,349
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx5 View Post

has anyone on this fourm tried this?

 

I know a few that have with various models, but the thing you need to make sure you understand (and I don't think Mark stresses this enough....he should be shouting it on the first line in 72pt text...sorry Mark :)) is that having the TV "say" the connection is 1080p/120Hz on it only means that it's taking in 1080p/120Hz.

 

The TV can still be doing "Frame discarding" or "Frame dropping", etc., "on the way out to the display".

 

No nVidia (etc.) driver PC side can yield that information, because the PC will never know what the TV is doing internally.  The TV can certainly report back that it's taking the 1080p/120 but it'll be throwing away frames in front of you anyway.

 

You need to visually inspect the results of a test utility, which means actually looking at your screen.

 

That said, (Mark does stress this enough) always test for 720p/120 if the 1080p fails.  Folks in the thread I started on the Sony R550A series have reported that 720p works but not 1080p even though the TV will claim it's taking it in.

 

And THAT said, because it's an "out-of-spec spec", it's possible that later firmware/hardware revisions will allow higher rates, or even less.  Test the TVs the moment you buy them.


Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
tgm1024 is online now  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 32xbr4 32 Lcd Hdtv , Epson Powerlite 7900p Lcd Projector
Gear in this thread - 7900p by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off