Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Owners Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:25 PM
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I watched Michael Clayton night on Blu-ray via the PS3. I saw a little green phospher here and there but overall it was a great experience. When I watched the first part of the movie the other night on my XBR4 Clooney's eye brows would smear like you wouldn't believe. On this set they were rock solid. Even my girlfriend commented that things on the Plasma tend to stay more in focus. I got a little IR from the health bar in Ninja Gaiden on the PS3 last night but it was gone in about two minutes watching something else. Keep in mind I probably have close to 20 hrs on the set since pickup on Friday.

FYI I'm sitting about 7 feet away from the set.

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:26 PM
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Erie, I am sitting about 8-10 ft away. I almost downgraded to the 46 inch. But I am glad I stuck with the 50 inch. It actually seems bigger than my 51inch rear projection. It might just be because of how bright and clear the picture is. As far as programming I am mainly watching HD shows. I also bought a Blueray while I was there but have only seen one movie (ratatouille). That was absolutely amazing to watch. I also have a wii and an xbox but haven't had a chance to play yet. If someone wants to tell me the best way to test the green fringing I can give it a go. I have COD4 but hardly play it.

Also to let others know it took a little sweet talking but I actually used the 12% off with the online sales price. Just to answer earlier posts that it can be done but you might have to get a manager involved. I also got 12% off a stand and 10% off the blueray. I hope this isn't breaking price rules for the forum, I just thought I'd pass along this info for those going into BB.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:52 PM
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Ok, I took some pics and made a video tour of my 50PZ85U. You can find them at http://www.brothersontech.com/product/2299. Click on the Reviews/Tips/Blog tab to find the video.

If there are any other pics of the TV you would like to see, let me know.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post


It seems pretty clear to me based on the older posts and with hindsight of seeing one in a store, if you want Kuro like blacks now you get a Pioneer or one of their 2009 set. Or wait and sees if Panasonics delivers what they showed at CES for 2009 sets. But I think the 85U is gong to be the value set for 2008- not the reference set. Nor will the 800 series with it 30K:1 fare much better. Hopefully the formal test/reviews will prove this wrong.

there it is again, "value set". If it truly is the next best thing next to pioneer i'd consider it above value you level.

I also am still of the mindset that as much as it hard to match Pioneer, what they did last year should generally be doable for a company like Panasonic the following year, particularily since the Kuros made such a noteable jump due to a rather specific technique apparently. I would think that Panasonic would do "something" to increase their blacks, and i would expect that thing would/should be it, maybe in less grand fashion so it's not quite as black, but i would expect a noticeable bump in black levels.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFudge View Post

As far as I know...Eagles could be a shareholder or an employee of Pioneer with an agenda....not that he is, but it just seems odd that he is the only one posting that the new Panny's demonstrated no signs of closing the gap on the Kuro black levels

Besides, as someone else just posted....Deep inky supersaturated blacks arent all they are cracked up to be....you lose alot of detail in the dark areas when you crush the blacks like that. Even when I had my old crappy Panny PC77U, the blacks looked darked enough and detailed enough to put out a rich picture (if it wasnt for the over graininess and lack of detail in the crispness, I would have kept that TV)

I think these new Panny's will be excellent with great black detail....For God's sake, they went from 10,000 and 5,000 Contrast Ratios of last year to 30,000 CR this year....they HAD to have achieved at least some of that with richer deeper blacks in addition to the brighter whites

Besides, you don't get your THX certified (800 series) unless you meet specific demanding image criteria....Im sure this includes a certain baseline minimum for detailed black levels

Let's wait for an OFFICIAL/PROFESSIONAL review first before we start going stir crazy...no?

LOL. I see I no longer wish to participate with responses like this.
I guess that's what you get for your honest opnion.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

LOL. I see I no longer wish to participate with responses like this.
I guess that's what you get for your honest opnion.

I don't blame you. I don't understand why anyone would want to give you a hard time. You just said it wasn't Kuro black but still very good. lol

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Old 03-23-2008, 09:39 PM
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And I don't even own a Pioneer.
Some people just get so defensive if what you say doesn't jive with what they want to believe or truly believe. I was just giving my opinion possibly to help people in the similar situation as me of trying to find the right set for myself.
The 800's have me interested.
By the way, the Kuro's do not crush blacks.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

And I don't even own a Pioneer.
Some people just get so defensive if what you say doesn't jive with what they want to believe or truly believe.
The 800's have me interested.
By the way, the Kuro's do not crush blacks.

Yeah if you want crushed blacks you buy a Samsung LCD. I'll say it again just so everyone gets off your back the PZ85 has great blacks. Kuro blacks no but still very good blacks. I'm very impressed coming from an XBR4 which for an LCD has pretty close to Plasma level blacks.

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Old 03-23-2008, 10:21 PM
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Kuro's have the most shadow detail of any set currently out.....that said, you've seen what I'm accused of and will still say you would love the 85U. And as you said the price is right.
Believe me when I say the more agonizing you do over it, the harder it is to be happy.
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Old 03-23-2008, 10:36 PM
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To add the opinion of another owner to the mix, I have the 50pz85u (not my first hdtv, but my first plasma), and I can say that I think the picture is incredible. I think the blacks on the TV are great while still retaining shadow and detail. I have not seen a scene where I have been disappointed. There is a feature in the picture menu called "black level" that switches between light and dark. This feature is worthless, because when set to dark all detail is lost (it appears that crushed is the proper nomenclature - (see Walter from the Big Lebowski)). Have had no problems (no dead pixels, no IR (despite watching tourney all weekend), no ghosting, no phosphor trails). Ultimately, cant say enough about how impressed I am with the set. Just my experience so take it for what it is worth

I would note that I sit approx 7-8 feet away and so 1080p was a fairly important feature in my purchase.
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

There is a feature in the picture menu called "black level" that switches between light and dark. This feature is worthless, because when set to dark all detail is lost (it appears that crushed is the proper nomenclature - (see Walter from the Big Lebowski)).

I agree about the "black level" feature being worthless. Panasonic should have left it off the menu. Also, has anyone figured out what C.A.T.S. does except darken the picture and take away all of the "pop"? It also seems worthless.

More impressions: I have noticed a phosphor trail here and there, but nothing distracting. Also had some IR when I watched about 30 minutes of "King Kong" DVD where the top an bottom black bars were, but after about 1-2 minutes of full screen content, it washed away. I have about 48 hours on the set, fwiw.

On the black level: as mentioned before all I have is an old CRT to compare, but the black is not bezel black in a darkened room. However, dark scenes appear detailed from the material I've watched (480p). I have not noticed any "floating blacks." One thing I was worried about was dithering I saw on last year's Panny and Samsung sets I had looked at in the store. I have not noticed that on this set, and the picture appears very smooth. Of course, I've not watched a lot of material yet, so this could still pop up.

One thing I have been very impressed with is how good 480p material looks. I just have a Panasonic DVD Recorder that outputs in 480p progressive, and on newer DVD's, the picture is outstanding.

Lastly, no stuck pixels from what I can tell.
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by theLorax View Post


Also to let others know it took a little sweet talking but I actually used the 12% off with the online sales price. Just to answer earlier posts that it can be done but you might have to get a manager involved. I also got 12% off a stand and 10% off the blueray. I hope this isn't breaking price rules for the forum, I just thought I'd pass along this info for those going into BB.


Lorax..are you saying you got Best to match an ON LINE Price..then used the 12% discount on top of it ??

If so..what did you say to convience them to give it to you ??

Reason I Ask is I was told they will match local stores or on their own web site or on web site of local stores but that was it.

Great Job Lorax if you got them to do both..
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Old 03-24-2008, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nlowhor View Post

Ok, I took some pics and made a video tour of my 50PZ85U. You can find them at http://www.brothersontech.com/product/2299. Click on the Reviews/Tips/Blog tab to find the video.

If there are any other pics of the TV you would like to see, let me know.

Thanks for the pics. I see the post(s) on the stand (big TV foot/base) are made out of metal? I think.
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Old 03-24-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rimrattler6 View Post

I will probably watch a few hours of SD (no HD until Cox gets more receivers in...)

i got my 85u in a week ago and have the same problem! friggin cable company, i actually WANT to give them more money, and they wont take it!

I love this set so far, but the closest thing to a HD signal i have seen on it were some photos from an SD card...it seems to handle SD content and upscaling of DVD pretty darn good as far as i can tell tho....resisting the urge to pull the trigger on a ps3 while im waiting for cox to get my HDDVR in....
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nlowhor View Post

Ok, I took some pics and made a video tour of my 50PZ85U. You can find them at http://www.brothersontech.com/product/2299. Click on the Reviews/Tips/Blog tab to find the video.

If there are any other pics of the TV you would like to see, let me know.

Nice... Thanks for posting.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

I see the post(s) on the stand (big TV foot/base) are made out of metal?

Yes, they are metal.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

There is a feature in the picture menu called "black level" that switches between light and dark. This feature is worthless, because when set to dark all detail is lost (it appears that crushed is the proper nomenclature

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBoomer View Post

I agree about the "black level" feature being worthless. Panasonic should have left it off the menu.

I've heard the black level - dark setting is for inputs that don't use the NTSC 7.5 IRE black setup, but instead output black at 0 IRE. That would make it far from "worthless", though certainly not everyone will need it.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

I've heard the black level - dark setting is for inputs that don't use the NTSC 7.5 IRE black setup, but instead output black at 0 IRE. That would make it far from "worthless", though certainly not everyone will need it.

...and you could be, and probably are, correct. Do you know what C.A.T.S. does?
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

I've heard the black level - dark setting is for inputs that don't use the NTSC 7.5 IRE black setup, but instead output black at 0 IRE. That would make it far from "worthless", though certainly not everyone will need it.

Fair enough. If that is the case, alright. I would note that the materials I received with the TV dont say anything like that. (despite explaining why one would need the x.v. color setting, etc.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

Fair enough. If that is the case, alright. I would note that the materials I received with the TV dont say anything like that. (despite explaining why one would need the x.v. color setting, etc.

good info wrxpilot.

I also found the 85u manual ridiculously sparse on details. to the point that I started wondering if it was a full user manual or just a quick start guide. they should be giving this kind of info to someone who buys the damn thing
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:06 AM
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good info wrxpilot.

I hope it is, I had asked about this feature before and that's the answer I got. I don't have one of these TVs yet to test it out - I'm holding out for the 800u.
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Originally Posted by JCBoomer View Post

Do you know what C.A.T.S. does?

Only that the marketing for Panasonic's "Contrast Automatic Tracking System" claims it adjusts the white level and "gradient" (whatever that means) based on the picture's APL.

I don't think you'll find many who recommend these types of dynamic controls, they almost always degrade picture quality. You want your white and black levels calibrated to your viewing conditions; letting the TV constantly change them on you defeats the point of calibrating the display to begin with.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by am777 View Post

good info wrxpilot.

I also found the 85u manual ridiculously sparse on details. to the point that I started wondering if it was a full user manual or just a quick start guide. they should be giving this kind of info to someone who buys the damn thing

The Panasonic site is having issues this morning but I plan on looking for the 800U manual when it comes back online. I figure the 800U manual may have more details on specific features like C.A.T.S. etc since it's a THX certified television.

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Old 03-24-2008, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

I hope it is, I had asked about this feature before and that's the answer I got. I don't have one of these TVs yet to test it out - I'm holding out for the 800u.

Only that the marketing for Panasonic's "Contrast Automatic Tracking System" claims it adjusts the white level and "gradient" (whatever that means) based on the picture's APL.

I don't think you'll find many who recommend these types of dynamic controls, they almost always degrade picture quality. You want your white and black levels calibrated to your viewing conditions; letting the TV constantly change them on you defeats the point of calibrating the display to begin with.

I agree....my 85u is currently set to off for most of the picture options. I have CATS and Dark set to off and I use Size 1 only when I have to remove overscan, otherwise I use Size 2. My preference is to use as little processing as possible. In the default mode for Cinema, the 85u provides a really great image with very natural colors and plenty of detail in the shadows. Default Cinema settings matched up to my Avia and DVE settings.

I wish Panasonic had provided more user control. For instance I'd like to be able to control the set's processing of 720p, 1080i, 1080p. If I have a 720p signal, I'd probably want to keep it at 720p and not subject that input to processing. I'd also like to compare it in 1080i vs 1080p. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to manually set the 85u to these modes. I think most people assume scaling to 1080p will give the best image when that may not be the case.

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Old 03-24-2008, 08:55 AM
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i ordered a 50pz85u via cc last week, anyone received their's yet? They won't give me any time frame.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

I agree....my 85u is currently set to off for most of the picture options.

I have mine set the same way.

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Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

Default Cinema settings matched up to my Avia and DVE settings.

I noticed in the Default Cinema the Picture Setting is at 100. This matched with Avia? Not much fudge room there, eh?
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:12 AM
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By the way, the settings on Custom did not match my settings in Cinema when using Avia and DVE. I think someone else had provided an explanation in one of the other threads. If I remember correctly, someone said each of the presets handles the signal differently, ie. video, film, computer/gaming. Does anyone know if this is correct and if this means that each preset uses different scaling/processing settings?

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Old 03-24-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

The Panasonic site is having issues this morning but I plan on looking for the 800U manual when it comes back online. I figure the 800U manual may have more details on specific features like C.A.T.S. etc since it's a THX certified television.

I don't think the 800u manual is out yet. a few of us here regularly check the link http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TH42PZ85U.PDF (replace the 85 with 800) and try various screen sizes (just in case)

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I agree....my 85u is currently set to off for most of the picture options. I have CATS and Dark set to off and I use Size 1 only when I have to remove overscan, otherwise I use Size 2. My preference is to use as little processing as possible. In the default mode for Cinema, the 85u provides a really great image with very natural colors and plenty of detail in the shadows. Default Cinema settings matched up to my Avia and DVE settings.

I wish Panasonic had provided more user control. For instance I'd like to be able to control the set's processing of 720p, 1080i, 1080p. If I have a 720p signal, I'd probably want to keep it at 720p and not subject that input to processing. I'd also like to compare it in 1080i vs 1080p. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to manually set the 85u to these modes. I think most people assume scaling to 1080p will give the best image when that may not be the case.

feds, what do you mean by "keep it at 720p"? since the TV's native resolution is 1920x1080 it will scale any image to that size (assuming you do want it to fill the height of the screen)....unless you want it to be a 1280x720 image inside a black 1920x1080 box? (with black bars on the left and right as welll as top and bottom) my HT projector does that if I want it to, but I don't think that's what you are talking about.

EDIT - Also these progressive TVs can't display in an interlaced fashion, they will need to convert the image (deinterlace, IVTC, etc) to progressive before displaying so not sure what you mean by compare 1080i vs 1080p....can you elaborate? thanks.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:53 AM
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pendragoon, thanks for confirming that.

Call of Duty 4 runs at 60 FPS locked in most of the time, but I have seen the 360 version dip to 30fps a few times when I combine the cluster bomb, a bad year, and infinite ammo cheats which can kill the framerate (got it under 5 fps once) but under normal gameplay it never dips at all. (just wanted to clear that up)

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I have a question for the gamers out there. Ninja Gaiden Sigma runs smooth as butter on this set. However, GT5 Prologue during replays looks funny when the cars drive by on some scenes. Usually when the camera is pulled back from the track. It's as if the car has three versions of it closely meshed todether. Something doesn't seen right about it. Is anyone seeing anything like that on any games either PS3 or 360? I though the strength of the Plasma over the LCD is that looks smoother in fast motion...

I use Ninja Gaiden Sigma as a motion blur test, what you do is start up a new game and get to the point where 2 ninja ambush you from above (a short cutscene will occur) after beating them turn the camera and look at the trees, how much detail do you see? start by spinning the camera slowly, about 1/4 speed. how much detail do you see now when you focus on a tree as it goes by? you shouldn't see any loss of detail, now spin it about 1/2 speed, you should still see every bit as much detail as you did in the still image when you focus on the tree as it goes by. Now up it to 100% speed, on a CRT HDTV, you should still see every detail in the trees as they go by. On my 42px75 I loose the fine detail in the trees but they still look the same (just without the individual leaves) at a full speed spin.

Since you own both a top tier LCD and Plasma I was wondering if you could do a comparison test between the two techs using the above spin test? Use whatever 120hz enhancements you wish on the XBR4 if it helps with the blur. This should let us know just how far LCD tech has come in terms of motion (and clear up your question about motion.) (I'm not sure about why GT5 Prologue does that as I have never played it, does the XBR4 do this as well?)

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Old 03-24-2008, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Call of Duty 4 runs at 60 FPS locked in most of the time, but I have seen the 360 version dip to 30fps a few times when I combine the cluster bomb, a bad year, and infinite ammo cheats which can kill the framerate (got it under 5 fps once) but under normal gameplay it never dips at all. (just wanted to clear that up)



I use Ninja Gaiden Sigma as a motion blur test, what you do is start up a new game and get to the point where 2 ninja ambush you from above (a short cutscene will occur) after beating them turn the camera and look at the trees, how much detail do you see? start by spinning the camera slowly, about 1/4 speed. how much detail do you see now when you focus on a tree as it goes by? you shouldn't see any loss of detail, now spin it about 1/2 speed, you should still see every bit as much detail as you did in the still image when you focus on the tree as it goes by. Now up it to 100% speed, on a CRT HDTV, you should still see every detail in the trees as they go by. On my 42px75 I loose the fine detail in the trees but they still look the same (just without the individual leaves) at a full speed spin.

Since you own both a top tier LCD and Plasma I was wondering if you could do a comparison test between the two techs using the above spin test? Use whatever 120hz enhancements you wish on the XBR4 if it helps with the blur. This should let us know just how far LCD tech has come in terms of motion (and clear up your question about motion.) (I'm not sure about why GT5 Prologue does that as I have never played it, does the XBR4 do this as well?)

Well I actually tested GT5 and Ninja Gaiden over the weekend on both the XBR4 and the Plasma. The XBR4 still is more blurry on a quick pan and of course the dark colors smear. On the PZ85 I get a little bit of phosphor trailing but there is more detail in the picture. In GT5 the cars do the same thing on the XBR4. However, there is a hint of phosphor trailing that makes it stand out on the PZ85 were it just kind of blurs on the Sony. I'm not use to that extra detail on the Plasma.

55HX950 l SC-1522-K l SP-PK51FS l RW12-D l XB1 l PS4 l RNG200 l P31 LIVE:BPMURR PSN:BPMURR
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskoo View Post

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if I could get a tally here.

I purchased a 50" PZ85U from Best Buy and this is the second one I am returning. Luckily, the folks at Best Buy were very understanding and I got zero push-back (so far).

On both sets the screens had stuck pixels (the second set had 13 stuck pixels). I called Panasonic and asked them how common it was and they said it is very uncommon to even have 1 stuck pixel. That got me thinking about the following questions.

1: Do you have or ever had a Panasonic plasma where you have done a white screen test and seen stuck pixels? Please let me know what model you have as well.

2: If Best Buy mishandles the shipment (e.g. the box bounces around in the truck, assuming it was never laid flat but only bounced around), will that cause stuck pixels or are stuck pixels more of a manufacturing defect?

3: Can stuck pixels resolve over time in plasmas or is that more of an LCD thing?

Thanks everyone!
Chris


That sucks dude. My set is clean as a whistle.

Yeah, well... you know, that's just like uhhh... your opinion man.
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