Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Owners Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike infinity View Post

I would add that I noticed on the 77u (any all plasmas I looked at) the off-axis viewing was much better than the xbr4.

bpmurr...what do you think about the brightness of the pz85 compared to the xbr4?

Yes the off-axis view is words better then the XBR4. Funny considering Sony lists it as 178 and Panny says 160.

I would say that the PZ85 is ever bit as bright as the XBR4. Of course the first thing I did on both sets is turn it down as it's just too bright for home use from the factory.

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post #722 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 10:57 AM
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@bpmurr

Have you seen anything on your 85 like I show at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13464117
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post #723 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 10:58 AM
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BTW, just to be clear. I am posting here just as another owner, who also just happens to be an ISF calibrator as well. I bought the 85U for myself. It was delivered yesterday afternoon and I calibrated it last night.

******************************

"Tom, were you able to "dial in" the red and green on the set, or are you saying they couldn't be corrected even in the service menu?"

All the service menu offers are controls for adjusting the grayscale. As I said, post-calibration this was nearly perfect.

"1. Request - Can u post some CIE charts, etc. for us to look at?

2. Am a bit confused about the color accuracy thing, you first mentioned that
"After turning the Color control down, the red and blue color points were surprisingly accurate, red (x0.639, y0.323), blue (x0.153, y0.069). However, green is oversaturated and bluish (x0.277, y0.624)." but then later also said "Blue was accurate, but red and green were +21% and +18%, respectively."

Is the latter statement referring to your pre-calibration settings which you were you then able to later fix (the red at least)?

3. you mentioned there was "no control over the 85U's color decoding" - was that without access to service menu or even with access to it?

4. with access to the service menu would it be possible to dial this TV in to the HDTV color std (rev 709) or simply not possible? (i.e. the green i guess)"


I have some before/after CIE charts at home. I can post them later this evening.

Color science is not well understood, largely because the video mags don't bother to explain it. There are 3 aspects to color performance: grayscale tracking, color gamut, and color decoding. Each of these are separate and are measured and assessed independently. The color gamut is what you see with the triangular CIE chart. Post-calibration, the 85U red and blue were very close to perfect (especially red), but green was oversaturated and bluish. Color decoding is not represented on the CIE chart at all. It concerns the lightness or brightness of the color and is usually expressed as percentage deviations from ideal. This is where the 85U's color performance is not very good. After lowering the color control, although the saturation is much improved, green and red are much too bright.

Panasonic plasmas have no controls in the service menu for adjusting color decoding that I know of. In previous generations you simply used the main Color control for this, but they have apparently re-engineered this control because it now affects the image differently. Lowering the Color control reduces the saturation of RGB, but it does NOT lower the colors' brightness. In fact, it seems to increase it! This is VERY unusual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is peculiar.

The service menu also has no controls that allow adjustment of the color gamut that I know of (It is brand new, so it MIGHT offer something like this and I haven't found it, but I really doubt it. It never has in the past.). However, the main Color control works fairly well in this regard, though it operates on all of the colors, rather than RGB independently, which is what you really need.


"by any chance did you use HCFR for gamma, I have heard that it reads gamma differently and so 1.9 in HCFR is actually 2.2.......i just thought I'd bounce that off you, no offense intended. you seem to know way more about this than i do."

There is nothing special about HCFR's gamma measurement, other than the fact that they confuse users by offering several different types of gamma measurements and users often have it set wrong in the Preferences. The only one that's important for the vast majority of applications is the Display gamma. To answer your question, I used a couple of different tools. The results were the same.

BTW, I have put in an order for a Lumagen video processor, which should allow me to fix the gamma and color decoding problems. I'll post back after I've had a chance to try this.

Tom Huffman
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post #724 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlowhor View Post

@bpmurr

Have you seen anything on your 85 like I show at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13464117

I'll take a look for you tonight.

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post #725 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

I'll take a look for you tonight.

Awesome, thanks a bunch.
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post #726 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 11:23 AM
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nlowhor, I have not seen anything like that on mine (if I didn't mention it already).

Tom, thanks for the update.
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post #727 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JCBoomer View Post

nlowhor, I have not seen anything like that on mine (if I didn't mention it already).

Tom, thanks for the update.

Thanks for letting me know JCBoomer. It's actually hard to see unless you are looking for it. It's not a huge deal, but I can definitely see it clearly now that I know it's there. I'm leaning toward heading back to BB for the exchange tonight.
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post #728 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 11:39 AM
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Has anybody wall mounted one of these Plasmas? I would be running 2 HDMI cables and there is one on the side and then I would be using one of the two in the rear. I have heard that there might be issue with very hard contact with the hdmi cable in the rear to the mount/wall because the rear inputs don't sit as deep into the rear of the TV as on other models.

Anybody seen any problems??
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post #729 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlowhor View Post

Thanks for letting me know JCBoomer. It's actually hard to see unless you are looking for it. It's not a huge deal, but I can definitely see it clearly now that I know it's there. I'm leaning toward heading back to BB for the exchange tonight.

Once you know it is there you have to exchange it. Just make sure that when you take it in to exchange it, show them where the problem is at because if you leave it up front with them by themselves they will not notice the problem.
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post #730 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 12:59 PM
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Ok so this is my first post on this forum. I have been lurking in and out for a while and there is a ton of great info here.

I just recently pulled the trigger on the 85u and I love the set. I am real happy with it 99% of the time but there are a few instances where there seems to be some video noise or I guess the "mosquito" effect. I had no idea there was such thing as video noise a week ago so bear with me.

I am watching BD movies through HDMI on the PS3. It isn't enough to really bother me but it is at times noticeable to the point people are asking me why it looks like that. I am sitting about 10ft back give or take.

I just want to check that it's normal. I don't think it's horrible and it does vary by movie and even more so by scene. Just curious as to how much I should be seeing and if I should be worried.

Thanks
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post #731 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 01:07 PM
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Just received my 50PZ85U from Amazon today.

This is my first HD set so of course the clarity looks absolutely wonderful. I am coming up from an old JVC 27" CRT. The anti-reflective coating does a reasonable job as this set is in a brightly lit room with sunlight coming through multiple windows.

As for the black performance, I have to hold my judgment until it is dark as in the day light the panel, when off, looks a bluish gray color.

I have friends and family with DLPs and LCDs and I must say that I enjoy the color reproduction on the Panasonic the best so far even before calibration. Hopefully I will have the DVE disc tonight and I can get more accurate results. LCDs always seem a bit harsh to me and the DLP was a Samsung that was lit by a LED engine and just seemed a little "off". Can't really explain that notion of what was off but it did not feel natural.

I ended up wall mounting this beast with a Sanus VMAA26b. One little gotcha is that while there is no curve from top to bottom the middle of the screen bows out just a little bit making the arm a tight fit. Also, you must mount the arms at their highest vertical position otherwise you block the input port panel. I will take some pictures to demonstrate what I mean by that.

Also, the SD upscaling on this TV is worlds better than what I saw on my friend's DLP set. The blockiness that I had seen on the Samsung is no where to be found on the Panasonic.

There is no audible buzz that I can hear from my sitting position either. I am building an antenna to pick up some OTA signals for tonight. Hoping to catch the final episode of Jericho in HD.

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post #732 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 01:21 PM
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Here is the picture of the rear with the bottom of the mount showing.

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post #733 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlowhor View Post

For he 50PZ85U, I measure the clearance at the edges to be approx. 3 11/16 inches. Under the speaker shelf it's harder to measure but seems to be about 3 1/8 - 3 1/4 inches. These are very approximate measurements.

Thank you for your reply. My recorder should fit within the 3''+ with room to spare. Now I can complete some of my wiring into the wall unit console.The 85u will be here friday.

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post #734 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by upzdayzm View Post

Thank you for your reply. My recorder should fit within the 3''+ with room to spare. Now I can complete some of my wiring into the wall unit console.The 85u will be here friday.

No problem, but keep in mind that the 3"+ of clearance is only on the outer portions of the screen. Make sure you've got plenty of additional width to hold your player.
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post #735 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Panasonic plasmas have no controls in the service menu for adjusting color decoding that I know of. In previous generations you simply used the main Color control for this, but they have apparently re-engineered this control because it now affects the image differently. Lowering the Color control reduces the saturation of RGB, but it does NOT lower the colors' brightness. In fact, it seems to increase it! This is VERY unusual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is peculiar.

What does the tint setting control?
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post #736 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

What does the tint setting control?

It adjusts the hue of the secondary colors (cyan, yellow, and magenta), rotating them around the white point.

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post #737 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 02:34 PM
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so now it seems the Samsung LN46A550 is priced the same as the 46PZ85.

Can any PZ85 owner do a comparison with the samsung plasma? Thanks
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post #738 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyTV View Post

the first 150 hours is very critcal... but to be on the safe side... for the first 1000 hours have no black bars.

I know that you need to break in plasmas in general, but I am just wondering how this one performs in specific. Just trying to find out if it is improved over the last generation.
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post #739 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:31 PM
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Here are the requested color charts.








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post #740 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:32 PM
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Tom-

Since you calibrate TVs, how does this tv compare to others?

If someone got PZ85, would you suggest to get it professionally calibrated? It seems that you need to get it calibrated to fix the red.

What is a Lumagen video processor and would all professionals use similar tools to fix the green if I did get it calibrated?
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post #741 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tank171 View Post

I know that you need to break in plasmas in general, but I am just wondering how this one performs in specific. Just trying to find out if it is improved over the last generation.

After following this thread and seeing the new 50PZ85, I am having one delivered tomorrow. This is my first plasma and I too am seeing alot about IR burn-in and break-in about this line of TV's. Is there a specific recommendation that comes from Panasonic with the TV? I also saw where some people are using a break-in DVD--is this included with the TV? Is 100 hours of break-in an opinion or general recommendation? HD, SD or live action feeds? Anything else a plasma rookie needs to know about breaking in a PZ85?
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post #742 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post



Nice grayscale. What light meter did you use to measure the blacks?
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post #743 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:52 PM
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Yesterday i was at BB and viewed the PZ80 & PZ85 placed next to each other and didnt notice any difference in PQ, im wondering now if its worth the extra money for the 10000 more contrast and the PCinput, however the PZ85 model in my opinion has a nicer look.
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post #744 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by specgeorge View Post

Yesterday i was at BB and viewed the PZ80 & PZ85 placed next to each other and didnt notice any difference in PQ, im wondering now if its worth the extra money for the 10000 more contrast and the PCinput, however the PZ85 model in my opinion has a nicer look.

What was the price spread?

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post #745 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 05:27 PM
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200
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post #746 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by specgeorge View Post

200

Worth it

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post #747 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ErieMarty View Post

By pretty nice do you mean better then what you expected or Nice but not great.

Just trying to get your feel for the TV (guess what I am trying to say..do you feel it was worth the investment )

No it looks way better than my old tv (Sceptre x37sv, which sucked by the way, I know). Actually broke down and wasted money on an Xbox 360 Elite today... even in upscaled 1080p games look bad ass. I'm actually more happy with the fact that games dont jutter or ghost anymore. I'm more than satisfied with the purchase.
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post #748 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Here are the requested color charts.

Tom,

Would you mind sharing the basic settings? The color temperature, tint, color level settings.

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post #749 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stoody View Post

No it looks way better than my old tv (Sceptre x37sv, which sucked by the way, I know). Actually broke down and wasted money on an Xbox 360 Elite today... even in upscaled 1080p games look bad ass. I'm actually more happy with the fact that games dont jutter or ghost anymore. I'm more than satisfied with the purchase.


Can't wait for my local Best/Circuit to get one in.. For some reason I can't pull the trigger without seeing it in person first...
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post #750 of 12675 Old 03-25-2008, 06:57 PM
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with the 85 series..makes someone like me getting his first HD TV. think is it worth spending over 2K for it ?

or will the average Joe not even notice most of the stuff thats talked about on here that could be wrong with their set..or doesn't live up to someones expection..

just asking..
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