Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Owners Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 398 - AVS Forum
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post #11911 of 12677 Old 04-12-2009, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Are you sure that's what WB method does? I use 03 with CM off and my pic is definitely not washed out. I've used a blue filter to set color and tint and the result is excellent.

I remember reading in the calibration thread for PZ80/PZ85 that WB method had no effect on PQ but much more likely how many inputs, pic modes, hd and sd, etc. the settings were applied to.

I should re-phrase "pic washed out".

WB METHOD 03 with CM ON gives a good pic, but the colours are over-saturated / more inaccurate than WB METHOD 00 & CM OFF

There is a decoder error in the GREEN CHANNEL that improves with CM ON, but is still present. Look through your GREEN Filter if you have one. CM OFF very obvious that the COLOR BARS with GREEN do not match reference level, nor do they match each other. There will be 4 colors of green through your GREEN filter.

Turn on CM and they get closer but still don't match the reference level or each other. The difference is much less obvious though.
The BLUE CHANNEL is also affect by turning CM ON, though there is no decoder error so just saturation level is altered.
Turn CM OFF and increase the colour to compensate for the change and the red becomes oversaturated.

WB Method 00 there is still a decoder error but look at the GREEN channel with your filter.
The CYAN COLOR BAR will match the REFERENCE LEVEL and the other YELLOW & GREEN will match each other.

I think this is the best you can get with the Decoder error in the green channel.
Not perfect but much closer than WB 03

Mike
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post #11912 of 12677 Old 04-12-2009, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The PZ85U doesn't have Dynamic mode.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same as Vivid on US models. When I first got my TV I thought Vivid looked best, but now compared to my calibrated Cinema mode, it looks way off. I'm using warm color temp but since my grayscale is modified it looks more neutral than warm to be honest.
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post #11913 of 12677 Old 04-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedsocks View Post

I should re-phrase "pic washed out".

WB METHOD 03 with CM ON gives a good pic, but the colours are over-saturated / more inaccurate than WB METHOD 00 & CM OFF

There is a decoder error in the GREEN CHANNEL that improves with CM ON, but is still present. Look through your GREEN Filter if you have one. CM OFF very obvious that the COLOR BARS with GREEN do not match reference level, nor do they match each other. There will be 4 colors of green through your GREEN filter.

Turn on CM and they get closer but still don't match the reference level or each other. The difference is much less obvious though.
The BLUE CHANNEL is also affect by turning CM ON, though there is no decoder error so just saturation level is altered.
Turn CM OFF and increase the colour to compensate for the change and the red becomes oversaturated.

WB Method 00 there is still a decoder error but look at the GREEN channel with your filter.
The CYAN COLOR BAR will match the REFERENCE LEVEL and the other YELLOW & GREEN will match each other.

I think this is the best you can get with the Decoder error in the green channel.
Not perfect but much closer than WB 03

Mike

In that case, would I have to modify my color settings (color and tint) to use WB 00 with CM off (and any other settings for that matter)? I only have a blue filter since this tv doesn't have individual color controls. I would hope all I need to do is select WB 00. CM is already off for me.
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post #11914 of 12677 Old 04-12-2009, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

In that case, would I have to modify my color settings (color and tint) to use WB 00 with CM off (and any other settings for that matter)? I only have a blue filter since this tv doesn't have individual color controls. I would hope all I need to do is select WB 00. CM is already off for me.

I found no changes needed to tint.
Color I brought up from 43 to 47.
Green grass looks more natural without having the oversaturation from CM.

Dropping the CUTS down has helped to push the noise from the gamma curve on custom / standard below 1% IRE. Before noise would approximate 5% IRE when observing a low APL ramp. Noise in the picture is the same as Cinema now .
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post #11915 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 01:44 AM
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post #11916 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Note that although this thread is labeled PZ80/PZ85 almost everone here has the US version (TH-nnPZ85U).



For the PZ85U Cinema/Warm gives the closest to standard gamma and color temperature. This is not an accident. Panasonic is trying to provide at least some support, absent any calibration settings, for people that want a display that is close to standards.



The PZ85U doesn't have Dynamic mode.


No but the PZ85B does.

I understand what you're all saying about Cinema vs Dynamic, but I would still like clarification regarding why on some non-dark scenes Cinema mode tends to look a tad washed out/the ffect you would get if the brightness were too high. Or is this in fact normal?
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post #11917 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesP1701 View Post

I would still like clarification regarding why on some non-dark scenes Cinema mode tends to look a tad washed out

I don't see that so I'd guess:
a) you don't have your display properly configured.
b) you've not given yourself time to adjust to a properly configured display.
c) you're comparing to a poorly configured display that you're used to.
d) you don't have good sources.

I'm sure there are many other possibilities.

re: Dynamic mode. You asked why more people don't use Dynamic to which I replied most people here have U models and they don't have that mode. Saying the B models do have it is true but irrelevant. If you'd like to ask a different question please do. It's hard enough to communicate on these threads as it is. Precision helps.
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post #11918 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I don't see that so I'd guess:
a) you don't have your display properly configured.
b) you've not given yourself time to adjust to a properly configured display.
c) you're comparing to a poorly configured display that you're used to.
d) you don't have good sources.

I'm sure there are many other possibilities.

re: Dynamic mode. You asked why more people don't use Dynamic to which I replied most people here have U models and they don't have that mode. Saying the B models do have it is true but irrelevant. If you'd like to ask a different question please do. It's hard enough to communicate on these threads as it is. Precision helps.


Appreciate your help however, to respond to your comments:

1) Possibly so. Still working on it!
2) Had the set since Xmas, surely that's ample time!
3) That's very likely. My old set was a 42 inch Sony MRX1
4) I've got a Sony S550 Blu-Ray Player going to my Onkyo SR606 then up to my TV.

Also, regarding your comment that "Saying the B models do have it is true but irrelevant" I'm sorryu but it is not at all irrelevant. This thread is called the PZ80/PZ85 owners thread, not PZ80U/PZ85U owners thread. Dynamic is a setting from Panasonic on the B model. It is therefore a legitmiate topic to discuss-you also didn't mention that most people ehre have the U model. Perhaps there is someone with the B model who can more directly relate to my issue?
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post #11919 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesP1701 View Post

you also didn't mention that most people ehre have the U model.

See the first line here. Or scroll up a few (~7) postings.
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post #11920 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

See the first line here. Or scroll up a few (~7) postings.

You're correct. My mistake.
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post #11921 of 12677 Old 04-13-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedsocks View Post

I found no changes needed to tint.
Color I brought up from 43 to 47.
Green grass looks more natural without having the oversaturation from CM.

Dropping the CUTS down has helped to push the noise from the gamma curve on custom / standard below 1% IRE. Before noise would approximate 5% IRE when observing a low APL ramp. Noise in the picture is the same as Cinema now .

Using a blue filter, my color settings stayed the same. I double checked to be sure.
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post #11922 of 12677 Old 04-14-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedsocks View Post

Reading through this thread for several months now and my obsession with tweaking the picture & service menu settings I have made several adjustments that I haven't seen anyone else perform, at least to the extent to which I have.

I have found that since new, the black level has never impressed. To get a brightness level high enough that the set did not crush the black detail also raised the brightness that a totally black screen glowed a faint blue.
The picture also appears to have lost its original "pop".
I have also found that I never truly felt the picture accurately portrayed the source material, much to dull in Cinema, too overdriven in all other modes.

I have made some adjustments to the RGB Cuts, DRV & Sub-Brightness and I have been very happy with the result.

Here are my current settings:

User Menu Settings

Custom Picture
Pic - 80
Brightness - 50
Colour - 47
Tint - -2
Sharpness - 50
Colour Temp - NORMAL

Service Menu Settings - numbers in () are original
Custom PIC Mode
Normal Temp

Sub-Bright - 815 (800)

R Cut - 6E (80)
G Cut - 6E (80)
B Cut - 6E (80)
ALL-CUT - 6E (80)

R DRV - DE (FC)
G DRV - D7 (F1)
B DRV - D4 (E7)
ALL-DRV - DE (FC)

WB METHOD SELECT - 00 (03)


WB METHOD
00 gives more accurate colours with COLOUR MANAGEMENT OFF.
03 gives saturated greens & blue with CM ON. Turn off CM and the pic looks washed out.
01 & 02 the white balance seems to shift depending on the scene and you get some scenes with a warm tone & some with a cool tone.

With these settings the whites appear bright white, blacks are black with no noise, shadow detail is excellent, and the colour is much more accurate.
Test images show a very good colour accuracy with a slight decoder error in the green (better though than WB 03 & CM on)
Grey Scale shows well from 5% IRE to 100% IRE with no crushed whites or blacks and good even steps between each level.

TV looks great during day and at night with all the lights off.
Very happy with these settings and with the TV now.

Mike

Did you set black level to light or dark? I tried your settings with a light black level and found whites to be pure, but blindingly bright. Also, would you say what you've discovered about WB method applies to all picture modes, including cinema and standard?

One last thing is that this post would probably be more helpful in the calibration thread since that thread focuses more on settings, especially those of the service menu. I'm sure most people still don't know that WB method has any impact on PQ. I don't believe anyone in that thread mentioned what you've noticed regarding that parameter.
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post #11923 of 12677 Old 04-14-2009, 01:29 PM
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Re: these sets not properly de-interlacing 1080i material.

What real world affect does that have on 1080i TV channels and a 1080i HD DVD player? Does it degrade the picture quality in comparison to a 1080p source to a noticeably degree or is more along the lines of it failing benchmark tests?

Trying to get an idea of how much worse the HD DVDs I have on an 1080i player might look compared to Blu-ray given the set not properly de-interlacing the 1080i signal.
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post #11924 of 12677 Old 04-14-2009, 02:02 PM
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They will both look great. Don't listen to that crap; this is a great set. I have both a PS3 and a Hd dvd and both look fantastic.

Pan 46PZ85U, Marantz SR5003, TiVo Premier, TiVoHd + 1tb, A2 (fs), PS3, Pan DMR E-95 (fs), JVC DVD-A, Polk & Infinity, Harmony One
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post #11925 of 12677 Old 04-14-2009, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by StuJac View Post

They will both look great. Don't listen to that crap; this is a great set. I have both a PS3 and a Hd dvd and both look fantastic.

Meaning you don't believe the sets inability to properly de-interlace 1080i material negatively affected the picture quality in comparison to a 1080p source?

I was under the impression that not properly de-interlacing 1080i material would have at least some impact. Was hoping it was very minor but didn't expect it to not have any negative affect.
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post #11926 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abintra View Post

Meaning you don't believe the sets inability to properly de-interlace 1080i material negatively affected the picture quality in comparison to a 1080p source?

I was under the impression that not properly de-interlacing 1080i material would have at least some impact. Was hoping it was very minor but didn't expect it to not have any negative affect.

I have a 360 with HDMI hooked up to my DLP showing 1080p and an older 360 hooked up through component to my 85u showing 1080i. Most people that come over say they want to play on the 85u cause it looks better/crisper. Personally I see no difference so I def think the 85u does fine with 1080i material.

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post #11927 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 09:24 AM
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Do I just insert the card into the SD slot, and thats it?
I downloaded the 20 images onto a 1GB SD card from http://www.eaprogramming.com/.

Is it better this way, or from the DVD?

I couldnt get the DVD to download properly. It said 6 days remaining on the download. Not sure.
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post #11928 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abintra View Post

Meaning you don't believe the sets inability to properly de-interlace 1080i material negatively affected the picture quality in comparison to a 1080p source?

I believe every review I've read regarding this stated that it's not that noticeable in real world viewing. For example:

Quote:


Converting 1080i to 1080p is important for broadcast HD and most concert Blu-ray Discs and HD DVDs. While the Panasonic deinterlaced correctly, it didn't properly handle 3:2 pulldown. It also displayed flashes of moiré on real-world scenes from Mission: Impossible III and stumbled on mixed film and video content (a message scroll below a filmed image).

With real-world programming, rather than material specifically designed to reveal problems, the Panasonic's video processing rarely distracted me. In all other respects, its performance ranged from good to, more often, superb.

Quoted from a review HERE at Home Theater Magazine.
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post #11929 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 11:38 AM
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I read that also and have been paying particularly close attention to fast action scenes and scenes where they go from night to day; I never see any examples of this. I am continually amazed at the picture quality and my set is almost exactly one year old. I swear the picture is better today than when it first arrived.

Pan 46PZ85U, Marantz SR5003, TiVo Premier, TiVoHd + 1tb, A2 (fs), PS3, Pan DMR E-95 (fs), JVC DVD-A, Polk & Infinity, Harmony One
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post #11930 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBoomer View Post

I believe every review I've read regarding this stated that it's not that noticeable in real world viewing. For example:

Quoted from a review HERE at Home Theater Magazine.

Interesting. I thought I recalled another review or two specifically mentioning that it failed to properly de-interlance 1080i materical (CNet perhaps?) and articles alluding to that degrading the image quality. I could never find one that explictly stated how that degradation, if any, manifested itself when watching 1080i TV channels or HD DVDs using one of the 1080i players though so always wondered what that may be.
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post #11931 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abintra View Post

Interesting. I thought I recalled another review or two specifically mentioning that it failed to properly de-interlance 1080i materical (CNet perhaps?) and articles alluding to that degrading the image quality. I could never find one that explictly stated how that degradation, if any, manifested itself when watching 1080i TV channels or HD DVDs using one of the 1080i players though so always wondered what that may be.

As far as watching Blu-ray movies goes, I find 1080p to have smoother motion than 1080i, most likely because of the 1080p 24hz feature on my PS3. I don't know about HDTV 1080i, since I still get SD.
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post #11932 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 07:47 PM
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Ive been running the break in throught the SD card reader for about 4 hrs and noticed 3 pixels that dont light up during the green and white/grey colors.

Will this go away?
Anything I can do?
Dont let it bother me, because its going to stay that way?

Its bugging me though.

Should I just let the colors loop for days until I have over 100 hrs?

some opinions say thats overkill.


Thanks
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post #11933 of 12677 Old 04-15-2009, 09:25 PM
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1080i just looks blurry to me on some sources. 1080p is the way to go for HDTV.
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post #11934 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

most likely because of the 1080p 24hz feature on my PS3.

The PZ cannot run the display at 1080p/24. It converts 24fps to 60fps via telecine (presumably using 2:3 pulldown) and may throw in an interlace/deinterlace step as well. Based on SD tests the on-board deinterlacer is pretty good but if 24fps is looking better than 60fps then something in the component chain is sub-par.
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post #11935 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The PZ cannot run the display at 1080p/24. It converts 24fps to 60fps via telecine (presumably using 2:3 pulldown) and may throw in an interlace/deinterlace step as well. Based on SD tests the on-board deinterlacer is pretty good but if 24fps is looking better than 60fps then something in the component chain is sub-par.

I'm aware of this as 2:3 pulldown is in the specs; however, it seems the TV does it better than the PS3 (according to my eyes). Most likely the PS3 doesn't do the conversion as well as the TV does and that's what I'm picking up on.
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post #11936 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeydiker View Post

Ive been running the break in throught the SD card reader for about 4 hrs and noticed 3 pixels that dont light up during the green and white/grey colors.

Will this go away?
Anything I can do?
Dont let it bother me, because its going to stay that way?

Its bugging me though.

Should I just let the colors loop for days until I have over 100 hrs?

some opinions say thats overkill.


Thanks

If you don't see them on the "white" background, then they are most likely "stuck" and not "dead". I had this happen on my 85U and when I checked the same screen later, it had disappeared.

I do have one "dead" pixel, that has been there for the past year, but it's in an area that you can't notice unless you are close and looking for it. Dead pixels are "black" and typically noticeable on white screens.

Don't let it bother you, as I let it bother me (I'm very anal). If you can't see them with normal viewing, it isn't worth getting stressed.

There is no problem with running the break-in "slideshow" 24/7 until you reach 100 hours...that is how I did it as well. Some argue that this makes no difference. I think it is a way to minimize the likelihood of IR (Image Retention) and Burn-In, but most importantly, it will aid and speed up the process of aging the phosphors (pixels) evenly and adequately. Your PQ will get better and better with age (mine peaked at around 600-1000 hours) and stuck/dead pixels have been known to disappear after long periods of time.

As others have told me...ENJOY your new TV. The 85U is a great set and you WILL enjoy it!

"Reciprocity is the wellspring of friendship..."
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post #11937 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 09:25 AM
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I have narrowed down my search to the Panny Plasmas, but I am confused with their naming nomenclature as the models I am looking; TH-PZ80U, TH-PZ80Q and TH-PZ85 all have the same specs and price differences, so are is there differences, is it simply year and date revision of the same model ?

LG 26LG30 > Samsung HD860/Malata DVP-393
Sammi LN40A330 > LG LDA-831/Pioneer DV-353
Panny PN42PZ80U > Sony BDP360S
Viewsonic N3735W > Magnavox BD530MGX/Toshiba SD7200/Lite-On LBW-1107HC1
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post #11938 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Most likely the PS3 doesn't do the conversion as well as the TV does and that's what I'm picking up on.

I was assuming you were doing native output. If you have a 24fps source (I thought most BD were 24fps) then my comments apply otherwise not so much.
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post #11939 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 09:50 AM
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What I'm saying is if 1080p 24hz is off on my PS3 then it outputs at 60hz (doing the 2:3 pulldown itself). When the setting is on, the TV does the 2:3 pulldown instead and this results in smoother motion when watching BD's which are all 24fps (at least BDMV's).

Anyhow, I've read that Panasonic Plasmas with true 24hz support still flicker, with refresh rate of 48hz being the likely cause.
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post #11940 of 12677 Old 04-16-2009, 10:46 PM
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Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anyone else had experienced a fuzzy type screen when watching blue rays though the PS3 to the 58 85u? When i am watching the blue rays i see them but watching normal TV and normal movies i dont. I am using a HDMI cable through the PS3 directly to the TV. I dont notice it as much when i have it set on the calibration settings but if i put it on vivid, its very noticeable. If i can i will try and upload some Screen shots of it. Any advice would be great...Thanks.
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