Samsung PN50A550 / PN58A550 Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 5668 Old 04-20-2008, 10:21 AM
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I with you about the pannys. I was looking at both very hard. I actually read that entire thread. They are freaking out that the Samsung got a better review. I did see both at a CC, side by side. I know that you really can't judge by the store display, but the Samsung looked better to me. Skin tone on the Panny seemed to red to me.

So far my set is great. No dead pixels, no green blobs in the middle of the screen, none of the problems that I have been reading about.

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post #272 of 5668 Old 04-20-2008, 11:33 AM
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I'll chime in, just picked up a pn50a550 on Tuesday. Initially I was looking at something in the 40-50" range, and wasn't decided on LCD or plasma. At first I was leaning towards a 46" LCD, but after taking a good look at a plasma I ended up increasing my budget and so went on to narrow it down to a 50" plasma, between the sammy and panny. I got to compare em at a local store where I purchased it, American TV, which was nice as well since they keep their entire TV department under dim lights. Dare I say they have quite a bit bigger selection than say BB, everything from LG to Pioneer, both LCD and Plasma, heck even DLPs.
After playing with settings, I decided on the Sammy, to me the colors were nicer, and on the Panny I could notice some odd clustering type stuff at close range that I don't see on the Sammy. While it was nearly not noticable at say 8+ feet, I knew it was there and couldn't help but look for it.
I got about 50 hours on this set so far, break-in for me is just turning off torch mode and watching stuff full screen or turning on say cartoon network during the day when I'm away from the set. So far I'm very pleased with the set, and even with slightly lower brightness/contrast than I like for burn-in purposes the picture is amazing. I've watched some discovery HD stuff with their logo's on the bottom and cannot see any IR when checking afterwards. The price/performance ratio of this set is excellent and I'm glad to finally move on from watching these in a store to watching one in my home.
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post #273 of 5668 Old 04-20-2008, 02:48 PM
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What should I look for in a surge protector?? How many joules?? What brand should I get and how much should I spend??? Thanks!!

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post #274 of 5668 Old 04-20-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keiperrc View Post

I've been looking at these too, really wanting the 58".. I went to BB this evening to look, they had the 50 out on display.. I wasn't impressed, but I never trust the settings there.. The had the 50 720p model right above it, and it looked a lot better, sharper, brighter, and better black levels, than the 50a550 below it, and of course on it's side was a Pioneer.. so it made the Samsung blacks look really gray.. But I believe it was not adjusted well at all since the one above it even looked better.
Still trying to decide between the Panny and the new Sammy though..
or maybe a nice little 47" LCD, and a Projector..

It's weird you should mention this because I've spent a lot of time at BB this weekend trying to make a decision. I agree, the 50A450 looked significantly better than the 50A550 that was right below it. This was at the Curtner store in San Jose. I want the 58A550, so I'm going to CC to stare at it some more & compare it to the 58" Panny next to it. I really wish BB would put the 58A550 on display, but I was told that probably won't happen for a while.

The 50A450 was definitely brighter & sharper though, & that's a 720P model.

Blu Ray: 200
HD DVD: 35
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post #275 of 5668 Old 04-20-2008, 06:35 PM
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I am seriously considering the 58A550, but I need to know if it handles 24P.

Update: May have already been general knowledge, but I wanted to confirm, so I did. Spoke with Level 2 Tech Support @ Samsung & this display does not support 24P.

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post #276 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 09:17 AM
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I'm considering a PN50A550. Can any owners post pics of this TV with images displayed? I know this isn't an accurate way to evaluate a display, but think it might be of interest to others.
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post #277 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 09:37 AM
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I'll try and put some up later tonight. After I get home from work.

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post #278 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 10:58 AM
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Congrats. I believe that you will be very happy with your set.

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post #279 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 11:28 AM
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You guys must all be from up North. I'm prepared for the usual horrible customer service in the Miami area. They'll probably throw it from the truck and keep driving. Delivery is tomorrow 11-3 so we'll see.

I have DirecTV HD and it looks amazing on my Sony LCD 720P 42A10 so can't wait to see how it looks on the Sammy. I am sure you will be impressed big papa
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post #280 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenalpert View Post

I've had the 58A550 in my home for 4 days now. I am extemely pleased with the set and have had no issues occur. Today I watched Finding Nemo, playing on my Panasonic DVD Recorder, which upconverts ordinary DVD's to 1080i (I'll have to get a 1080p upconverting player soon) and it floored me.

It is difficult at times to notice the difference between 720p and true 1080p. So upconversion on 1080p vs 720p/1080i would be negligible. I'm sure it's just a marketing gimmick for the most part. (And of course they got me cause the last DVD player I bought was 1080p upconversion...just never had a 1080p TV to try it out).

If anyone has another experience please respond cause I may consider bringing the DVD downstairs to try it out (right now I have a 1080i upconverter).
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post #281 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdb View Post

I don't get peoples' obsession with contrast ratio. It is MEANINGLESS. Human vision is good for 600:1 to 800:1 depending on the source. A contrast ratio of 20,000:1 will melt your eyeballs (or at least induce severe fatigue or headache). Trust me, you do NOT want to watch a TV with a 20,000:1 contrast ratio.

What are you talking about? First, the human vision thing is BS and has been proven numerous times on AVS to be bogus. Second, why do you assume that a high CR means the number is being measured simply because of the 100IRE/"white" lumen level is increased? Almost EVERY product these days that has a higher CR number is because the BLACK LEVEL(0 ire) lumen level is decreased. How can anyone not understand this?

I have a pj that is over 20k:1 (JVC RS2) and to say it will burn my eyeballs is asinine as is saying it causes fatigue/headaches. If anything, lower CR projectors/displays cause me to get fatigue because the image is hazy in low APL scenes and often in mid APL scenes. I guess all those CRT displays out there that are well over 20k:1 just destroyed the eyes of people right?

For someone to say a high CR isn't desired and is actually bad is simply ridiculous.

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post #282 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 01:05 PM
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This guy got his Samsung for a very cheap price...

TV Thief Strolls Out Back Door
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com

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post #283 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhard99 View Post

This guy got his Samsung for a very cheap price...

TV Thief Strolls Out Back Door
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com

Same thing happened at my local Walmart, two people cut the wires off of the TVs, put them into carts and walked out the front door. Walmart put in a new security system the next day.

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post #284 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 07:45 PM
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Anybody play any video games on their new 550's yet ? I'm wondering how the lag is and if and how well a game mode works on them..
I'm hoping I won't be upset because the gaming was kind of an afterthought now that my set is ordered.
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post #285 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 08:54 PM
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Hey everyone. I am supposed to be getting my 58A550 delivered tomorrow. I purchased for a great price from Amazon with free white glove delivery. I am guessing that I am not alone when saying we are all very interested in these TVs and would love to see more photos posted. If you have photos of your new TVs, please attach them to a post, we would love to see em. When I get mine set up tomorrow, I will post some photos as well. Thanks!
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post #286 of 5668 Old 04-21-2008, 10:56 PM
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Here is a photo of my 5084 that I brought back to the store and now I am waiting for the 50a650 . the tv looked amazing with Halo . I hooked up halo to the lcd and the black levels and the colors did not look as good at all . I cant wait to get my tv, plasma makes games look really good and the refresh, response time, video motion was faultless on my 5084 so I'm sure its gona look grate on all the sets the 550's and the 650's happy playing everything on your new panels guys. The color on them alone is mind blowing on my 5084 I saw colors I only see in real life that's how good it was, me and my wife that's the first thing we realizes is the great colors these panels can do. Plasma is almost or just as good as playing games on a good old crt pc monitor, only you are viewing things in 50 to 68 that's how good plasma is. PS: windows task bar is best on top.
LL
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post #287 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post

That looks very good, actually. What was your reasoning behind returning the 5084? Why are you holding out for the 650 instead of the 550? Aside from the extra HDMI and the "Touch of Red," I haven't read too much about the differences between the two.

The 650 is supposed to have Ultra Filter Bright.
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post #288 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 06:32 AM
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Does anyone know how long the new Samsungs are rated for?

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post #289 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty4ut View Post

Does anyone know how long the new Samsungs are rated for?

panel ->100 000 hrs, if that was the question.
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post #290 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 06:50 AM
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Yes, I knew that was what the new Panny's were, but I was having a hard time finding the info for my Samsung. I even searched the Samsung site.

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post #291 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty4ut View Post

Yes, I knew that was what the new Panny's were, but I was having a hard time finding the info for my Samsung. I even searched the Samsung site.

It is on the cutsheet on the Samsung site.

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...0A550_spec.pdf
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post #292 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 07:18 AM
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As jaymerkramer said, but their website has not been updated and still shows 60 000 hours:

http://www.samsung.com/ph/hdtv_inter...module_7_4.asp
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post #293 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 07:30 AM
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Thanks, I figured that they would probably be the same as Panasonic's. Love my new set so far.

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post #294 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 08:05 AM
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I finally went to my local BB and saw the 50A550 in person. There was a 50A450 on the left and a Panny 50PZ700u on the right. On the shelf above the Panny was a Pioneer 5010.

The content BB was sending these TVs through coax was garbage. The best I could get for comparison purposes was a BBC channel that the 50A550's display identified as "DTV-Air". It appeared to be a decent (not great) signal.

Anyway, I was very impressed with the 50A550. If the Pio 5010 is supposed to be the best of the 50" sets, the Samsung held its own. I could tell the Pio had blacker blacks, but IMO, not enough to warrant the huge $ difference.

Versus the 50A450, the 50A550 appeared to be a legit step-up. The PQ on the 50A450 was noticeably noisy and not as crisp as the other three sets. I also liked the 550's nicer-looking menu system.

Versus the Panny 700u, both looked good and would be fine choices. The Panny's anti-reflective filter was better, the 550's colors were more natural. If I were concerned about reflections, I'd probably choose the 700u. This leads me to what tips the scales for me in favor of the Samsung. It is a stunning design form. The TV is beautiful to look at "off". You'd think that shouldn't matter, but it does. The Samsungs appear to float in air above the pedestal stand which swivels nicely (would be useful in my room). The menu system is a pleasure to look at.

Given its' beauty, bang-for-the-buck and early reviews, the Samsung 50A550 has become #1 on my list. Now, if only my stimulus check would get here!
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post #295 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 10:48 AM
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Picked up the 550 this weekend at the local BB, stopped by circuit city with a print out from fridays Amazon site listing the 550 at $1633, circuit city wouldnt budge from their 2069 price, but they did offer 50% off wall mount installation

I then went to BB, the sales clerk spoke with the manager and they offered me the 550 for 1750, I baught the 4 year service plan, so it came out to a little under 2100 with taxes, set it up this weekend and getting HD through comcast today, thought I got a decent deal...after reading the posts about Big River, I come to find out it was a better deal then I thought. Lucky me

cant wait to test out the HD signal, prob going to pick up a ps3 this wekeend. Thanks for all the posts from everyone, I researched alot of the plasmas/LCD on different sites, but everyones input here helped the most.

Gracias.
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post #296 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

What are you talking about? First, the human vision thing is BS and has been proven numerous times on AVS to be bogus. Second, why do you assume that a high CR means the number is being measured simply because of the 100IRE/"white" lumen level is increased? Almost EVERY product these days that has a higher CR number is because the BLACK LEVEL(0 ire) lumen level is decreased. How can anyone not understand this?

I have a pj that is over 20k:1 (JVC RS2) and to say it will burn my eyeballs is asinine as is saying it causes fatigue/headaches. If anything, lower CR projectors/displays cause me to get fatigue because the image is hazy in low APL scenes and often in mid APL scenes. I guess all those CRT displays out there that are well over 20k:1 just destroyed the eyes of people right?

For someone to say a high CR isn't desired and is actually bad is simply ridiculous.

OK, AVS is absolutely a better source for information about human vision than the science that has been used to study it so we'll just go with that!

My comments about high contrast ratios being worthless apply only to the current state of video displays where there are no displays that produce perfectly black blacks. Contrast ratio is infinity if the video display produces blacks that measure 0 fL.

It's not that you want a low contrast ratio, it's that manufacturers LIE about contrast ratio and use all sorts of tricks to make it seem better than it is. What is important is the actual black level luminace measurement - not the contrast ratio and you can't determine what the black level is from a contrast ratio number.

WAY too many manufactuters (about all of them) keep adding more and more and more light output to try to push contrast ratio specs higher. You never know how any manufacturer measures their contrast ratio -- it's all a big secret because they cheat.

You don't want a lot of light output in a dark home theater room and that's the real point. 30 fL is PLENTY for a flat panel or RPTV in a dark room. A front projector really doesn't need more than 20 fL but even those numbers are higher than I'd use. I'd lean towards 25 fL for a flat panel/RPTV and 14-16 fL is ideal for a front projector. If the display produces 0 fL blacks, these displays will all have an infinity contrast ratio -- and that would be a good thing because the black levels would be driving the contrast ratio, not the white levels.

The only GOOD contrast ratio is infinity. Any other contrast ratio number is just a lie anyway (unless it is measured by somebody other than the manufacturer). In the real world, there is ZERO useful difference between a video display with a manufacturter's specified contrast ratio of 20,000:1 or 30,000:1. Both are lies and both are achieved with video display settings you would NEVER use.

I am measuring a PN50A550 right now as I compose this message - I am not picking on this display because every manufacturer's contrast ratio claim is baloney. I measured 0% White at 0.02 fL with a Konica-Minolta CS-200 meter ($14,000 MSRP) and ColorFacts Professional 7.5 software ($3500) and a new AccuPel HDG-4000 signal generator ($1600). A 100% White window measures 33 fL the way the panel is setup right now that's still too bright, but I haven't yet decided whether using Cell Light, or Contrast is the better choice for reducing the peak white.

33 fL and .02 fL produce a REAL 1650:1 contrast ratio - and it is STILL TOO HIGH because that 33 fL for 100% white should be closer to 25 fL for optimum viewing comfort for 4 hours or so. With the peak white level set to 25 fL the REAL contrast ratio will be 1250:1 (the black level will not change, it will still be .02 fL). I will list the settings used when these measurements were made at the end of this post - these are unlikely to be "optimum" or "recommended" settings for this panel (not that the settings for this panel would be the same for some other panel - maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't). I list them just for reference.

The marketing people specify 20,000:1 contrast ratio for this panel. WHERE IS IT? How do you setup this panel to produce 20,000:1 contrast ratio when the COMFORTABLE contrast ratio is 1250:1????

The truth is, 20,000:1 is a completely imaginary number. And even if this panel CAN produce a 20,000:1 contrast ratio - NOBODY would want to watch it while it is setup to actually produce that high of a contrast ratio. The black level is 0.02 fL and that is not going to change. To produce a contrast ratio of 20,000:1 this plasma panel would have to produce a 100% white level of 400 fL. Would you watch that????? I don't think so! Not when 25 fL is a COMFORTABLE level for 100% white in a dark room. 400 fL is FREAKIN BRIGHT and there is NO WAY this panel can achieve 400 fL unless there was considerable cheating in the measurement. The black level has more control over contrast ratio than white level... but the manufacturers know they can only get the back level to a certain point. 0.02 fL for the black level is OK, but it's not setting any new standards for the darkness of a panel display of any type. How could you POSSIBLY think that this display would be BETTER if the manufacturer's contrast ratio spec is 30,000:1 instead of 20,000:1? The black level is what it is. So the only things that could be done to raise contrast ratio from 20,000:1 to 30,000:1 is to lie more, or make the peak white level 600 fL which is even WORSE.

Given that the right way to setup a home theater is to produce an appropriate luminance level for 100% white based on room lighting, AND that the appropriate level is 27.5 foot lamberts for a panel display in a dark room (THX says 30 fL, I like 25 fL even better, so I compromised at 27.5 for this example), you could have a 20,000:1 contrast ratio and have a perfectly good video display and a 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio would be even better and an infinity contrast ratio would be the best possible. But all of those require making the black level blacker and blacker and blacker. Video display manufacturters can't do that with the technology they have today, so they make the displays brighter and brighter and brighter - which is fine if you have the TV in a family area with lights on or daylight coming in windows, but in a home theater where it is dark or almost dark, peak white levels are NOT your problem for getting good images in a dark home theater room. It's all about black level in a dark room.

For that 27.5 fL 100% white level example, a 20,000:1 contrast ratio would mean the black level would have to be .0014 fL. That's 1/14th the light output this panel actually has at 0% white. Obviously the images would be better. And the peak white level would still be comfortable. But that's not how display manufacturers measure contrast ratio. They do everything they can to make the whites as bright as they can possibly be because they know that gray glow you get instead of black is going to make their number much lower.

Contrast ratio is such a lie and so misleading, it should be banished and replaced with a black level number expressed in fL or cd/m2. That's what is important, not contrast ratio.

So in the end, a high contrast ratio alone is not evil, what is evil is the industry's emphasis on ever increasing white leves to make conrast ratio numbers appear higher when the black levels are not improving. And it's also evil when misleading tricks like blanking the screen are used to overstate contrast ratio - that will never happen while viewing image content so it is nothing but cheating.

If you set every display to a comfortable reference white level, let's say 27.5 fL for a 100% white window that fills 10% of the screen area. Then measure the black level, you'd have a useful real-world contrast ratio number and most displays made today would be in the 800:1 to 2000:1 contrast ratio range (front projectors need a different standard).

A video display that produces blacks that measure 0 fL will have an infinty contrast ratio for EVERY white level... 27.5 fL or 400 fL, it wouldn't matter, both white levels would have an infinity contrast ratio. But when blacks aren't really black, everything changes and manufacturers start lying and cranking up white levels until the displays become unwatchable. Some of the new LCD panels cannot have their white levels reduced below 40-45 fL and that is VERY BAD for a dark home theater.

Settings used on this Samsung plasma while the 1650:1 contrast ratio was measured:

Movie Mode
Cell Light 7
Contrast 95
Brightness 43
Sharpness 0
Color 47
Tint 50/50
Black Adj OFF
Dynamic Contrast Off
Gamma -3 (produces a Gamma of about 2.4 with the other settings as listed)
Color Space Custom (too many changes to list, CMS and gray scale were both adjusted using the meter and ColorFacts)
White Balance (settings only useful if you have the same Color Space settings I am using)
Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhancement Off
xvYCC Off
Color Tone Warm2
Size Just Scan
Digital NR Medium (does not appear to affect HD content, only SD)
DNIe Off (obviously, not available in Movie mode)
HDMI Black level - Normal
Just for fun, I changed Black Adjust to High and Dynamic Contrast to High... black level remained at .02 fL but the 100% white window was 42.5 fL compared to 33 fL with those 2 "features" turned off. So even if Samsung used those when they were measuring their make-believe contrast ratio of 20,000:1 (and 1,000,000:1 dynamic!!!!!), neither control makes the blacks any blacker - but they do make whites even whiter!
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post #297 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 10:57 AM
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People, extended service plans are a way to suck money out of you! (upsell alert)
The TV comes with at least a year warranty, pay for it with a good credit card, and your CC company will double the manufacturer's warranty. Check your CC benefits to find out if your CC offers this feature.
If a TV is faulty it will break well within first year.
I would rather spend the money on insurance, as after a year, the TV has better chances of being broken by the user, than failing due to manufacturing problems.
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post #298 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 12:17 PM
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hi there! first off, i had a LNT5271 but have sold it due to it's problems with TBE and studder. i've decided (a little late) that plasmas are probably the way to go since motion blur is greatly reduced (or hopefully non existent). is this correct? i'm looking at purchasing either the PN58A550, PIO 5010, or the 58" panasonic plasma. any advice as to which would be the way to go? i really would like the larger but i'm also looking for quality. is the steep price of the pioneer really worth it?
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post #299 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 12:25 PM
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What should I look for in a surge protector??

How many joules??

What brand should I get?

how much should I spend??? Thanks!!

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post #300 of 5668 Old 04-22-2008, 12:29 PM
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Steuny1 Pio would be worth it for you if you have an ideal and very expensive home theater set up.
In a regular living room, paying extra $1-2k for a Pio does not make sense to me.

I got the Sammy pn58a550, and cant be happier for two reasons: 1) the Sammy pic quality is outstanding 2) I saved a lot of money comparing to Pio 6010 or pro 150

Pio black level detail may be slightly better, but you wont notice that in day to day viewing in your home.

I have been trying to settle on a new TV for a year, and finally pulled the trigger on this Sammy because it was up there pic quality wise, it was much cheaper than competition, and I got the most screen size for my money.
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