Samsung PN50A550 / PN58A550 Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post

I've decided to return my 550 and just get one of the new DLP LEDs.

Congrats to those of you who have "good" sets, but until this image retention issue can be completely resolved, no matter how superior the quality is, I just can't get past it. I'm sure this isn't the case with all sets. In fact, I was in Circuit City messing around with some of the Samsung plasmas and none of them had the near-instantaneous TV Menu IR issue that currently plagues my unit.

While I could easily get a replacement sent, I don't feel like waiting around Amazon to ship another set to me from the other side of the country. I'll just bite the bullet and go to a big box retailer - that way if I do have issues, they can be resolved within the 30 day time period a bit more quickly.

It is kind of disappointing hearing all this concern over IR. IR typically happens during the first couple hundred hours then the effects wear off. After you have had the plasma for a while you should no longer get IR and if you do it should go away faster.

This is probably why you didn't see it on the display models. Those things run 12+ hours a day and have all their phosphors "worked over".

I wouldn't even worry about the screen wipe function - just watch full screen material (like stretched SD) after a watching 2.35:1 movie or playing a video game. It will accomplish the same thing (but may take longer) and you can enjoy a program while you wait.

You can also keep your contrast down for the first couple of hundred hours but the IR issue should be no different for a new plasma than for a new CRT.
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post #452 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 07:44 PM
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besides being a newer model and speaker placement any big differences between the FPT5884 and the PN58A550?
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post #453 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dom2u View Post

It is kind of disappointing hearing all this concern over IR. IR typically happens during the first couple hundred hours then the effects wear off. After you have had the plasma for a while you should no longer get IR and if you do it should go away faster.

This is probably why you didn't see it on the display models. Those things run 12+ hours a day and have all their phosphors "worked over".

I wouldn't even worry about the screen wipe function - just watch full screen material (like stretched SD) after a watching 2.35:1 movie or playing a video game. It will accomplish the same thing (but may take longer) and you can enjoy a program while you wait.

You can also keep your contrast down for the first couple of hundred hours but the IR issue should be no different for a new plasma than for a new CRT.

ya, i really hope everyone is blowing this whole IR thing way out of proportion.
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post #454 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by steuny1 View Post

ya, i really hope everyone is blowing this whole IR thing way out of proportion.

It is.
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post #455 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 08:21 PM
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I've had my pn50a550 for about a week and a half now and I am loving it. I had a slight encounter with IR the first day when I had to run thru menus quick to setup my HDDVR DirecTv box, but it went away within 10 seconds after it first appeared. I didn't run any break-in stuff, just been watching stuff fullscreen and leaving it on here and there with cartoon network or the like going.

I'm up to about 80 hours now and I watched a movie last night that was 16:9 and was over 2 hours long, and actually this thread and concern about IR came up and I figured I'd give it a go. After the movie was over & I switched to something else I could notice slight IR on both top & bottom, but once again it was gone within 10 seconds. I've watched quite a bit of Discovery etc in the past week with their logos in the corner and never once noticed any IR from it.

This being my first flat planel, much less plasma, this was a concern for me. My few first hand experiences have made me more at ease about it, and am now thinking it's not such a big issue after all. Once it's fully done breaking-in, I think it's going to be a non-issue unless I leave static images up for an absurd amount of time. I'm sure there's still going to be exceptions from variations in individual panels, hopefully the failures are rather rare.. however, I would definitely be taking mine back for another if I'd get IR from a menu that lasted an hour or more.
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post #456 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sloburn View Post

I've had my pn50a550 for about a week and a half now and I am loving it. I had a slight encounter with IR the first day when I had to run thru menus quick to setup my HDDVR DirecTv box, but it went away within 10 seconds after it first appeared. I didn't run any break-in stuff, just been watching stuff fullscreen and leaving it on here and there with cartoon network or the like going.

I'm up to about 80 hours now and I watched a movie last night that was 16:9 and was over 2 hours long, and actually this thread and concern about IR came up and I figured I'd give it a go. After the movie was over & I switched to something else I could notice slight IR on both top & bottom, but once again it was gone within 10 seconds. I've watched quite a bit of Discovery etc in the past week with their logos in the corner and never once noticed any IR from it.

This being my first flat planel, much less plasma, this was a concern for me. My few first hand experiences have made me more at ease about it, and am now thinking it's not such a big issue after all. Once it's fully done breaking-in, I think it's going to be a non-issue unless I leave static images up for an absurd amount of time. I'm sure there's still going to be exceptions from variations in individual panels, hopefully the failures are rather rare.. however, I would definitely be taking mine back for another if I'd get IR from a menu that lasted an hour or more.

On my first plasma, bought 3 years ago, I had the same experience with IR. I would see, run the screen wash function, and it would go away quickly. I was also VERY careful about not leaving still images on it - I would piss my wife off by yelling at her for pausing the DVD

After I had it a year or two I would play Call of Duty and Halo with out thinking about IR - sometimes for hours. I never had ANY IR after doing so. I assumed my plasma was so well broken in that I would really have to push it (12 hour static image?) to get IR - let alone Burn in.

On my new PN42A450 I don't have any IR. I keep the contrast down for movies but don't see a ghost image for the black bars on 2.35:1. For TV the contrast is higher, I had to compromise with my Torch-mode lovin' wife, but don't see any ghost images from the score boards when watching sports.
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post #457 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 10:49 PM
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IR Issue Details
OK I spent last 5(!) hours researching the IR issue on my pn58a550.
YES IT DOES EXIST! Let me explain to what extent.

MAXDB properly caught me on writing that I was using white screen for IR checking which would not show IR. I was initially testing with the scrolling black gradient, but for some reason (user error) a paragraph describing it did not make it in the final version of my post.

I saw no IR issue on the scrolling gradient screen. I just checked it again - I am able to see NOTHING. During those tests the TV was running in CNET settings, with my slight adjustments.

However tonight I was able to successfully reproduce the IR people here talked about! I could only see it on completely black screen. Here is how.

My TV has been used for a total of approx 20-25 hours. I reset the TV to the factory default movie mode settings.
I played Transformers HD DVD full length (with black bars top/bottom) - NO IR on the black screen at all , may be because Transformers is not a very bright movie (fans, calm down, I am speaking in terms of colors/light).
Then I started playing around with the credits (white text on black background). I paused the HD DVD player at some point. As HD DVD users would now, in pause there is the scroller displayed on the screen, that scroller on Transformers is bluish. So I paused the movie and it displayed a good bold white line of closing credits plus the bluish scroller on the bottom. This was on the screen for 20 minutes.
Then I ran the scrolling gradient IR reduction thingie - no traces of IR. Then I switched the input to the cable box which was off so the TV displayed a completely black screen. I COULD SEE SOME FAINT TRACES of the closing credits line, and NO traces of the bluish HD DVD scroller. I then ran the scrolling gradient thing for 10 mins, and all the traces were COMPLETELY gone - my eyes actually started to hurt from all the looking at the screen from 10 inches distance tryng to spot the traces.

Then I switched back to the HD DVD input (with the same picture on it), left it for another 20 minutes, switched back to cable input, confirmed same faint IR, then turned the cable box on and played HDNET for 10 minutes, then switched to black screen again - NO IR traces this time too. This tells me regular dynamic picture removes slight IR just as well as the scrolling gradient.

I then repeated this test a few more times trying to find how long it takes (below 20 minutes) to cause IR, but since my eyes were tired, I am not sure I can provide reliable info on this. I am 90% sure I did not get it after 2-3 mins static, and it started appearing after 5-10 mins. The shorter the time was that it took for the IR to appear, the shorter it then took to get rid of IR with regular viewing or scolling gradient.
I then switched the TV to Dynamic mode (100 brightness, and cell light of max 10) and repeated this test. Yes Dynamic mode causes much faster IR.

Anyway, I just viewed cable box for the last 15 mins and then checked the black screen - all the IR results of my tests are completely gone.

I did not check how bad the IR would be if a static white on black is left on for a very long time (1 hour plus) - did not want to risk, as my TV is just too new.

One thing I noticed - if a screen is used to test the IR that is not completely black, the IR does not appear - be that dark gray screen or any other dark color.

I suspect the IR in this TV is just some kind of "memory effect" - can only be seen on 100% black screen with the cells switched off (or whatever that low luminance level is that produces the black color - i know the cells do not completely switch off). When there is any real color that is different from "default" black, the IR cannot be seen - to produce that dark (not black) color the cells are actually lit with real signal, more charge than the default/initial/standby black charge, and that charge resets the cell to the proper luminance that is of the exactly same level as the surrounding cells with no IR. So the IR cannot be seen. In other words, that "default"/standby black level charge effect is being changed by the IR, and the IR affected cells respond to it with more luminance and are not completely black, but then when a real color signal is sent to them, they light up with the right level of color. I am not making this clear I know, but hope someone understand my theory, which is all just my guess.

What do you guys think about this theory?

My conclusion - before this extensive test I have not even noticed the IR, viewing regular TV (with logos) and DVDs, and viewing the scrolling gradient anti-IR feature.
I have mostly been using the near Movie mode settings. Tried Dynamc just for a couple of DVDs and tonight for my test. This issue does not bother me at all, as does not affect my real life use of the TV - viewing TV/DVDs.
I will monitor the IR for a few weeks/months and will let you know if it becomes worse or better.
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post #458 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Cardo View Post

it is true...burn in is permanent and IR goes away...eventually BUT...

I have a 2005 PHILIPS plasma (Samsung panel inside) and while it looks quite decent, it suffers IR very often...leave a logo for, say, 4-5 minutes and it will stay...even when the picture starts to change (it goes away in 15-20 minutes but I guess this timing depends on scenario)

so, it is possible to declare plasma panels made by Samsung more prone to image retention? based on my experience and what I have red here I could say....yes??

is it fare to activate the cleaning bar to erase the IR every single time we watch a 2 hour non-fullscreen 16:9 DVD??

is it possible that Samsung did not upgrade their plasma panel manufacturing process or panel generations (like Panasonic did) and instead they only improved their video processing circuitry so their current models looks much better than older versions but the actual panel is not 2007-8?

anyone experienced IR with current Panasonic panels?

I want to enjoy my next plasma without having to see IR over moving pictures or doing anti-IR service that often

ps: I wonder why Samsung left "Plasma Coalition"

I owned the Panasonic PZ85 for a little over two weeks but returned it due to a display defect (green blob with red outline) which is discussed in the owner's thread. I was going to exchange it for another PZ85 but after reading reviews and looking at both TVs again, decided to go with the Samsung 550 instead. IR between the sets seems the same, if a static image is left on both sets for several seconds IR is visible on an all black screen but NOT when the TV is producing a picture; I'm new to plasmas and am not sure if this even matters since it is ONLY visible on an all black screen. I just finished playing Call of Duty on the Samsung for a little over an hour and noticed IR on an all black screen but NOT while the TV was producing an image. With that being said, I ran the scrolling bar for three minutes (I'm not sure if I even needed to) and there was no visible IR anywhere on an all black screen. Right now I am at just about 40 viewing hours and am using Standard mode with the brightness and contrast turned down around 50~55.

I forgot to mention, in order to see the IR on an all black screen after my hour Call of Duty session, my nose was LITERALLY almost touching the screen. From normal viewing distance and even a foot away the IR was not visible on an all black screen.
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post #459 of 5678 Old 04-25-2008, 11:49 PM
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Nope! COD4 amongst other things hasn't caused any IR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steuny1 View Post

anyone know if the FPT5884 has any IR issues?

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post #460 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

A well respected ISF calibrator I've been speaking to who owns the 5084 said it had a better contrast ratio then the 700/750/77 series Panasonic's, so I'm pretty sure the A550 will be better in that respect than the 2006 models. However, if it was only "slightly better", not sure why you'd be on that like "butter on bread", you probably wouldn't notice!

I don't know any calibrators who would make such a statement. They all know contrast ratio is a worthless comparison parameter. A calibrator would have compared black luminance levels in fL or cd/m2. Calibrators don't even CHECK contrast ratio... unless they really don't know what they are doing. I tried to explain why contrast ratio was completely worthless as a "specification" in 2 previous posts.
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post #461 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by steuny1 View Post

decisions, decisions ... is there any plasma out there without this issue or is it pretty much something you have to deal with when you buy plasma?

After 50-100 hours of use, Pioneer Kuro plasmas have little or no image retention. After 400-500 it's REALLY hard to get them to retain an image unless you really abuse the panel. Kuros are the Only plasma I've encountered so far that is so immune.
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post #462 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveli7x7 View Post

is it hard to get into the service menu on these models?

No but do the wrong thing once you are in there and you can royally screw up the sets, completely disable it even. All it takes is one wrong move with the remote control when you lose concentration.
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post #463 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperSam View Post

IR Issue Details
OK I spent last 5(!) hours researching the IR issue on my pn58a550.
YES IT DOES EXIST! Let me explain to what extent.

MAXDB properly caught me on writing that I was using white screen for IR checking which would not show IR. I was initially testing with the scrolling black gradient, but for some reason (user error) a paragraph describing it did not make it in the final version of my post.

I saw no IR issue on the scrolling gradient screen. I just checked it again - I am able to see NOTHING. During those tests the TV was running in CNET settings, with my slight adjustments.

However tonight I was able to successfully reproduce the IR people here talked about! I could only see it on completely black screen. Here is how.

My TV has been used for a total of approx 20-25 hours. I reset the TV to the factory default movie mode settings.
I played Transformers HD DVD full length (with black bars top/bottom) - NO IR on the black screen at all , may be because Transformers is not a very bright movie (fans, calm down, I am speaking in terms of colors/light).
Then I started playing around with the credits (white text on black background). I paused the HD DVD player at some point. As HD DVD users would now, in pause there is the scroller displayed on the screen, that scroller on Transformers is bluish. So I paused the movie and it displayed a good bold white line of closing credits plus the bluish scroller on the bottom. This was on the screen for 20 minutes.
Then I ran the scrolling gradient IR reduction thingie - no traces of IR. Then I switched the input to the cable box which was off so the TV displayed a completely black screen. I COULD SEE SOME FAINT TRACES of the closing credits line, and NO traces of the bluish HD DVD scroller. I then ran the scrolling gradient thing for 10 mins, and all the traces were COMPLETELY gone - my eyes actually started to hurt from all the looking at the screen from 10 inches distance tryng to spot the traces.

Then I switched back to the HD DVD input (with the same picture on it), left it for another 20 minutes, switched back to cable input, confirmed same faint IR, then turned the cable box on and played HDNET for 10 minutes, then switched to black screen again - NO IR traces this time too. This tells me regular dynamic picture removes slight IR just as well as the scrolling gradient.

I then repeated this test a few more times trying to find how long it takes (below 20 minutes) to cause IR, but since my eyes were tired, I am not sure I can provide reliable info on this. I am 90% sure I did not get it after 2-3 mins static, and it started appearing after 5-10 mins. The shorter the time was that it took for the IR to appear, the shorter it then took to get rid of IR with regular viewing or scolling gradient.
I then switched the TV to Dynamic mode (100 brightness, and cell light of max 10) and repeated this test. Yes Dynamic mode causes much faster IR.

Anyway, I just viewed cable box for the last 15 mins and then checked the black screen - all the IR results of my tests are completely gone.

I did not check how bad the IR would be if a static white on black is left on for a very long time (1 hour plus) - did not want to risk, as my TV is just too new.

One thing I noticed - if a screen is used to test the IR that is not completely black, the IR does not appear - be that dark gray screen or any other dark color.

I suspect the IR in this TV is just some kind of "memory effect" - can only be seen on 100% black screen with the cells switched off (or whatever that low luminance level is that produces the black color - i know the cells do not completely switch off). When there is any real color that is different from "default" black, the IR cannot be seen - to produce that dark (not black) color the cells are actually lit with real signal, more charge than the default/initial/standby black charge, and that charge resets the cell to the proper luminance that is of the exactly same level as the surrounding cells with no IR. So the IR cannot be seen. In other words, that "default"/standby black level charge effect is being changed by the IR, and the IR affected cells respond to it with more luminance and are not completely black, but then when a real color signal is sent to them, they light up with the right level of color. I am not making this clear I know, but hope someone understand my theory, which is all just my guess.

What do you guys think about this theory?

My conclusion - before this extensive test I have not even noticed the IR, viewing regular TV (with logos) and DVDs, and viewing the scrolling gradient anti-IR feature.
I have mostly been using the near Movie mode settings. Tried Dynamc just for a couple of DVDs and tonight for my test. This issue does not bother me at all, as does not affect my real life use of the TV - viewing TV/DVDs.
I will monitor the IR for a few weeks/months and will let you know if it becomes worse or better.

IR happens in color as well as b&w... the 75% color bar (SMPTE bars or variants) will leave a colored after image on a black screen. Trying to view IR on a screen with moving images is like trying to spot a tiger in the tall grass from 1/4 mile away without binoculars... it's just not going to happen unless you are very lucky. That doesn't mean the IR isn't doing something to the image or that it will ALWAYS be invisible. There are movies out there with black in them, sometimes lots of black or very dark shadows... if IR is present, you could see it through the blacks/shadows in movies with lots of dark content.

IR is not permanent, but it is annoying, and it is present on every plasma panel... though Pioneer Kuros are almost immune once they have over 100 hours on them.

The fact that IR happens so quickly... visible after just 30 seconds of static image on the screen even with 250 hours on the panel. I used something very simple... Open the User Menu then scroll to the right to produce the blue highlight on Movie mode (everybody is using Movie mode right? It is far better than any other mode, the other 2 modes are crap). After just 30 seconds of that you can see where the highlight bar was (blue) and you can see the text from the other menu choices. It goies away fairly quickly after you remove the menu from the screen (20 minutes or so of random content playing full-screen).
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post #464 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by steuny1 View Post

so, is it safe to say that this set is more prone to IR/burn in than others? i'm thinking i should just splurge for the PIO 6010.

No it's not safe to say the new Samsungs are any better or worse than other plasma panels with the exception of Pioneer Kuros which are very obviously less prone to IR after being sensitive intially... the first 50-100 hours are somewhat sensitive and by 500 hours, IR is almost a non-issue with Kuros. I see IR on other brands to similar degrees - there may be a little variation here and there, but the only ones that are obviously different/better are the Kuros.
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post #465 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copster30 View Post

Maxdb, I also appreciate your input here.

So what do you think about our fears over the IR we've seen on the Sammies? Should we be concerned?

Well, those who aren't seeing it shouldn't be concerned I guess, even though it is there. Not worrying about it is a legitimate approach. I own a 2006-2007 Sony SXRD that had a SSE (silk screen effect) on the screen... you could see a texture in the screen if your eyes focused on the screen surface instead of on the IMAGE. It drove me nuts for MONTHS until I forced myself to stop focusing on the screen and to look INTO the image. Once I started doing that, the visible SSE completely disappeared... like magic.

I wouldn't use a plasma for things that invite strong image retention... like gaming or showing still photos. All you need to do is get distracted by your dog or kid or spouse, then while you are up you decide to get lunch and the mail and your neighbor wants to schmooze for half an hour while you're at the mai box... before you know it, you could leave a still image on the screen for hours. It may not be permanent, but it's going to show through dark image content... a movie like Batman Begins or Blade Runner... anything with lots of dark content COULD (not "will" but "could" )let the IR bleed through. It will eventually disappear. You don't hear many stories of permanent image burn in any more on plasmas. But I HATE that so many cable/satellite channels STILL leave logos up for such extended periods of time and some of them are quite intense (History Channel HD for example... bright red and white in it, they are *******s!). The Scrolling feature in these new sets is pretty effective at removing IR, but the set is pulling a lot of watts (350+) while the Scrolling is working.

In general I don't think the IR is terribly worrisome and it doesn't get in the way of enjoying the TV unless you are an obsessive nit picker like many audiophiles and videophiles are. I wish it wasn't there, but I'm not all that negative about it. My signal generator will display any white value full screen. When I get a chance, I'll create a retained image then put up a 1% white, 2% white, 3% white, 4% white, etc. full field and see what value is high enough to make IR disappear. It it turns out you can only see it at 0%, 1% and 2%... that would make it even less worrisome in my mind. But if it remains visible at 10% or even higher, that would give me more concern about it. From what I've seen (not all brands/models, but a fair cross section), the Samsung IR is about at the same levels as other brands except the Pioneer Kuros which are in a class of their own... very resistant to IR.
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post #466 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by goveeman View Post

Thanks for the great post. I sure agree with you that the Kuro's is better than the Sammy's as I've seen it dsiplayed in BB once. Once thing though, for an extra $2K between 58" Sammy and Kuro's, it's a big issue for me and I have to put that in a serious consideration as I'm just a poor man... and yet still want a good quality set :-)

TVs are no different than anything else... Miata or Lotus, Timex or Rolex, 350Z or Aston Martin, regular or organic milk, Men's Wearhouse or Armani, Maxwell House or custom roasted Blue Mountain... we all have to decide the intrinsic worth of everything. Unless we have more money than time to spend it in...
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post #467 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 06:16 AM
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thank you to everyone who has listened to my anal questions concerning IR ... i do appreciate all of your comments and expertise. so nice to find out stuff here cause the salesperson will say anything to make a sale. i just don't want to buy another lemon ... just got rid of a LNT5271 cause it was plagued by problems (TBE, stuttering) so i guess i'm once bitten twice shy. anyways, seems to me like a little IR comes with the territory when purchasing a plasma unless you go with a Kuro and then it is a little more forgiving. can't afford the kuro so the samsung is my choice. i come to the conclusion from this thread and these posts that as long as you exercise some care everything should be fine. anyways, thanks again! heading out to order the PN58A550 after i'm done work today. cheers!
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post #468 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 08:47 AM
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should i buy this PN58A550 now or just wait till the 58 inch panasonic 800u comes out in the fall?
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post #469 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by steuny1 View Post

thank you to everyone who has listened to my anal questions concerning IR ... i do appreciate all of your comments and expertise. so nice to find out stuff here cause the salesperson will say anything to make a sale. i just don't want to buy another lemon ... just got rid of a LNT5271 cause it was plagued by problems (TBE, stuttering) so i guess i'm once bitten twice shy. anyways, seems to me like a little IR comes with the territory when purchasing a plasma unless you go with a Kuro and then it is a little more forgiving. can't afford the kuro so the samsung is my choice. i come to the conclusion from this thread and these posts that as long as you exercise some care everything should be fine. anyways, thanks again! heading out to order the PN58A550 after i'm done work today. cheers!

I think/hope you will be happy with this set, I'd trade the problems with the Samsung LCD 71 series and A650 series for a little IR any day.
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post #470 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Cardo View Post

did you play any non full screen 16:9 DVD with black bars on top/bottom? such Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? no IR?

Yes, Lord of the Rings the other day... Royal Casino, etc. I have 100+ hours on the 58a550 now... I am using settings close to the CNET ones....

Hmmm.. view the 16:9 with bars for 30 min or so, then test the scrolling screen burn protection and I see nothing as far as IR. Sat or movies do not impact my screen with IR so far...

The only thing I have not hit the set with is with games... I'll report on this as I have time...

In conclusion, I wanted a high performing set at a reasonable cost... I love this set! I cannot be happier with its performance, picture quality, options at this cost. I highly recommend it.
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post #471 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 01:03 PM
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Ok guys, my last update I was considering turning in the tv cause of the IR but I have come to same conclusion as most of you; the IR may be there but it goes away pretty quickly even without using the scrolling bars. And like most of you have said, maybe after putting in a few hundred hours it won't even be an issue anymore.

Anyway, if I do need to use the scrolling bars I'll do it before I got to bed and set the TV to sleep mode so it turns off within 30 or 60 mins. No biggie.

You can't beat the picture quality of this set for the price, and that is the main thing for me.
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post #472 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 01:13 PM
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OK After watching for IR last night, I noticed something strange with the IR Gradient Scrolling black screen protector.

Can anyone see this on theirs?

Here is the issue.

The gradient can be described as a series of vertical black/gray/lightGray/etc bars scrolling from right to left. These bars are perfectly gradient - their color changes very evenly.

There is a problem though that can be seen on my set if I look at the scrolling very carefully from a close distance.

These bars appear to "shift" during the scrolling! It is hard to describe. It looks like an inch-wide vertical gray-tone area of the picture moves faster for a millisecond than the rest of the picture. Not constantly faster, but for one frame-long period of time. It "shifts" one frame faster than the rest of the picture, and this "shift" lasts one frame. This happens in only a certan area of screen. So this plain near perfect gradient thing becomes disturbed for a few frames,I can see it changing the gradient consistency.
It almost looks like the video processor cannot keep up with rendering perfect gradient and sometimes distorts it.

Has anyone seen this on theirs? What can cause this? It is not a defect I bet, but I am still slightly worried.
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post #473 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 01:25 PM
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Can one of you owners of the 58 550 please give me the dimensions on the base?

The manual shows an oval base so I'm sure those dimensions aren't correct.

Thanks
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post #474 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 01:33 PM
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I asked this before, and was given an answer here by FasterTiVoPlease.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=147

Here are my dimensions:

29.125 wide
Front edge is convex, the corners are deeper into the tv comparing to the center of the base by 1/4. Same goes for the back edge fo the base.
The corners of the base are rounded with approx 1 inch radius.
The base is 13.75 deep in the deepest part.
Center of front edge of base is about 5.5 inches from the front of TV.
The TV is about 4 inches thick in the thickest part, which is the center of it - the back wall of the TV gets thinner at the right and left sides of the TV.
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post #475 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 01:58 PM
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^^^^

Thanks
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post #476 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 02:13 PM
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Note: The Sammy pn50a550 is the third plasma TV I've had in my home in just over a month.

The first was the gorgeous Pioneer 4280. While the PQ was breathtaking, it buzzed like a hornet's nest. I must be one of the few blessed with dog hearing, as it bothered me to the point where I was forced to return it. Even when powered down, it still emitted a persistent, high-pitched whine. I immediately jumped onto Google and was distressed to find it was a rather widespread issue - I had hoped it was a defective set. No dice. I attempted to "suffer in silence" for almost two weeks before I boxed it up and cashed in a refund. Not cool.

I then picked up a Panasonic x77u with the super anti-reflective matte coating (it was an open box display model, saved a bundle). I enjoyed the TV, but the matte coating, to my eye, really muddied the colors. At the behest of my salesman friend, I held onto it for almost the entire 30 day return period (Future Shop) waiting for the new Panasonics and Samsungs to arrive.

Like most, my decision came down to the Panasonic 46pz85u, the Sammy a550 and the always glorious Pioneer 5080. Upon seeing it in person, I immediately disliked the 85u, both the PQ and the asthetic. Sitting right next to a Sammy a450, the noise issue was instantly obvious. Tons of motes and snow. I still loved the 5080, but the price and the buzz both created a barrier I simply could not overcome. This left the Sammy. According to CNET and my own two eyes, it boasted excellent colors, though black levels were inferior compared to my other choices. It was also the most effective in terms of price/performance. Though ... honestly ... were I not super sensitive to plasma buzz, I likely would've been all over the 5080, even for an additional $700.

Day 1. Immediately loved the clean look of it. Turned it on, was instantly relieved with the level of buzz. There is a discernible buzz of course (all plasmas have it), but the Sammy is far and away the quietest of the plasmas I've spent time with. Even muted, the buzz is low frequency and tends to melt away unless you focus on finding it. I was a little unhappy with how the set managed standard def, though admittedly my signal is the worst of the worst. Still, the colors pop and the black is black(ish) enough to satisfy, definitely blacker than the Panny x77u.

Day 2. CRUD. Found a dead pixel in the upper left hand corner, just below where the letterbox usually falls, about 4 inches in from the bezel. At my viewing distance of 10-12 feet, I can only find it if I'm really looking hard, at the total exclusion of paying attention to what's on screen, and only against an extremely bright background (clouds, snow, whatever). Even knowing exactly where it is, I still have trouble finding it under optimal spotting conditions. I can find it instantly if I'm within 4 feet, but I never watch from that close. Chances are I will not return the set because of this single dead pixel, due to it being dead and not stuck, and thankfully the positioning of the defect is far removed from the center of the screen. Aside from a perfect panel, it's about as good a result as one can hope for.

The built in speakers are good. I've heard some distortion during extreme highs, but nothing outlandish, and nothing that can't be fixed with a little audio tweaking. Plus, I'll be springing for an external speaker solution in the future, so not a deal breaker by any means.

Watching "Sweeney Todd", I tire of attempting to rid the image of the black crush introduced by my no name DVD player on composite. I make a quick stop at Costco and grab a Panasonic DVD player with 1080p up-conversion and a cheapish HDMI cable (will get Blu-ray in future, once Sony stops gouging). After some tweaking, I am immediately floored with the massive difference and find that the CNET calibration numbers provide a crisp picture with reasonably deep blacks and excellent shadow detail. The opening scene of Sweeney Todd, with the ship sailing out of the fog at night, is quite stunning.

I pop in Cloverfield for the first time and watch it front to back. Looks great. I see no image retention related to the movie. However, I DO notice slight image retention from the Panasonic DVD player's stark white function menu. I notice it only when I strain to see it, and it's gone within 20 minutes. Keep in mind, my set is still well within the first 100 hours, when plasmas are most prone to retention. Still, I tweaked pixel shift from 2 minutes to 1, just to be safe.

Day 3. Still enjoying it. Messing with settings, thinking about ordering a cable box on Monday as the PQ provided by the lowly coax cable is really quite brutal. Compared even to the relatively inexpensive DVD up-conversion with the cheapish HDMI, I'm having a hard time watching cable programming. Instead, I watched the Cloverfield special features. =)

All in all, I really like the Samsung pn50a550. Do I wish the blacks were a little blacker? Of course I do. Am I disappointed by the black levels? Absolutely not, and this is coming from an ex-owner of a Pioneer 4280. The blacks are miles away from LCD gray, the screen uniformity is awesome, the colors are punchy and accurate as hell, the noise reduction is top shelf. Plus, it's a dead sexy set in terms of the bezel and the piano black finish, the hidden controls and speakers. All in all, I think it's a keeper, dead pixel and all.
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post #477 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 04:22 PM
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Okay now here is my question. Since we have come to the conclusion that the panny and samsung both have equal retention as far as actually getting it can we then discuss which set it goes away with faster. When I read through both threads I find most of the panasonic owners report their IR goes away in minutes while some that I have been reading here in the sammy thread are talking hours to DAYS. So is the panasonic getting rid of IR faster than this set is?
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post #478 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copster30 View Post

Ok guys, my last update I was considering turning in the tv cause of the IR but I have come to same conclusion as most of you; the IR may be there but it goes away pretty quickly even without using the scrolling bars. And like most of you have said, maybe after putting in a few hundred hours it won't even be an issue anymore.

Anyway, if I do need to use the scrolling bars I'll do it before I got to bed and set the TV to sleep mode so it turns off within 30 or 60 mins. No biggie.

You can't beat the picture quality of this set for the price, and that is the main thing for me.

I completely agree
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post #479 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 06:39 PM
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hey everyone ... ordered the 58550 tonight from best buy ... will be delivered tuesday ... can't wait!!! huge favour ... if anyone finds a lower advertised price than $3699.99 canadian, including those on the internet from an authorized canadian dealer could you let me know so that BB can price match and give me an additional 10% off. tried to make a deal but he wouldn't budge and i really wanted to get this set. thanks!!!
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post #480 of 5678 Old 04-26-2008, 10:39 PM
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Regarding the shifting of the bars during scrolling, I see the same on mine. Don't think it's an issue
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