Samsung PN50A550 / PN58A550 Owners Thread - Page 50 - AVS Forum
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post #1471 of 5666 Old 06-19-2008, 06:46 PM
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To All,

Just curious, how did you guys perform the break in period:

1) was it with the break in dvd, or vcd or usb thumb drive? or movie loop?
2) did you put any delays with the thumb drive eg. slide show speed set to slow, normal or fast?
3) how long did you run your TV for in a day? 8 hours, 16 hours, or 24 hours?
4) how long did you intend to run the break in period for? 100 hours, 150 hours, 200 hours?
5) what picture mode did you use? dynamic, standard or movie?
6) did you enable pixel shift?
7) did you disable powersave?
8) was the edge enhancement on or off?
9) did you simultaneously break in the TV's speakers as well?

One day without HD is one day too long
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post #1472 of 5666 Old 06-19-2008, 08:30 PM
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I don't have one of these, but I have its little brother. Here's how I break in a plasma TV:

1. Plug it in.
2. Watch TV (full screen programming).
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post #1473 of 5666 Old 06-19-2008, 10:13 PM
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1. break in dvd
2. n/a
3. ~12-16 hrs during the day while I'm at work
4. ran it for 110 hours, got impatient, calibrated and now watching movies
5. during break in, I used movie. everything at 50%. all enhancements off.
6. no
7. no
8. EE always off
9. breaking in the TV speakers would be akin to breaking in your clock radio...
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post #1474 of 5666 Old 06-19-2008, 10:23 PM
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1) was it with the break in dvd, or vcd or usb thumb drive? or movie loop? DVD
2) did you put any delays with the thumb drive eg. slide show speed set to slow, normal or fast? N/A
3) how long did you run your TV for in a day? 8 hours, 16 hours, or 24 hours? 8hr with break in DVD and 2-3hrs watching TV and movies.
4) how long did you intend to run the break in period for? 100 hours, 150 hours, 200 hours? About 100hrs.
5) what picture mode did you use? dynamic, standard or movie? Movie
6) did you enable pixel shift? No
7) did you disable powersave? Sometimes but most of the time it was off.
8) was the edge enhancement on or off? Off
9) did you simultaneously break in the TV's speakers as well? Turned off speakers and used my new sound system instead.

Samsung PN58A550
Onkyo TX-SR705
PS3 for Blu-Ray
Xbox 360 for gaming
BIC Acoustech Home Theater System
Salamander Synergy A/V Cabinet

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post #1475 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 07:07 AM
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I set the Cable Box to HBO HD and left the TV on for the 1st 4 days and nights, watching full HD content in the meantime.
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post #1476 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1GHTRA1N View Post

Well here it is all setup. I was a bit concerned the TV would be too low since the bottom of the screen is about 9" lower than it was on the previous stand I had but after just watching a movie and about an hour or so of TV I have to say it is perfect. Center of the screen at roughly eye level is really the sweet spot, before the bottom of the screen was just below eye level. The image quality seems to be sharper and crisper, but that might just me me. Now that the TV is in its permanent home I can really enjoy it.


Its great when people send in pics of their setups...keep em comin! Would also be great to see some screenshots of HDTV & Blu-Ray on our 550's like the other threads do.

ps: GO EAGLES!
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post #1477 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 09:48 AM
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This is not a picture of the 550, but its the new 650 in my setup. This is right after it got set on the TV stand, so none of the cables are connected, etc. but I will have some pictures of it with the screen up to show picture quality soon as I can figure out how to best photograph it that way.




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post #1478 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 10:03 AM
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Looks great Atom - it would be interesting to see the 650's PQ w/ the Touch of Color border glowing!
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post #1479 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 10:06 AM
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The border doesnt light or glow...it isn't distinguishable from black once the room is slightly darkened. See picture below with scrolling bars running:


"Video games do NOT affect kids. If they did, all the kids that played Pac-man in the 80's would be running around in the dark, listening to repetetive electronic music, and eating magic pills!"
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post #1480 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classical View Post

I think CNET's settings is actually the best place to start, except set the cell light at 10 and turn the contrast down to 80 (all Doug's suggestions). Turn the contrast back up if you find the picture too dark when viewing during the daytime. I also think that the Digital NR should be turned off unless one notices a lot of "unintentional" noise (some movies, of course, have digitally inserted "fake grain").

You can also try pbc's settings. I won't provide a link to his settings but leave that up to him just in case he wants to post some updated settings.

Next, you can tweak the brightness, color and tint settings for your own TV by using a calibration DVD or THX Optimizer that appears on THX certified DVDs. The TV's Blue-only mode comes in handy here. After tweaking my TV with Avia, the three settings changed by only a notch or two compared to CNET's settings.

I also just discovered (new to me, at least) that there is an "easter egg" on most Sony Pictures Blu-ray discs. While in the main menu, press 7669 and Enter (for the PS3, press "triangle" then 7669) and that should bring up some calibration screens. I'm just about to try it. Here's a comment and instructions on how to calibrate with color bars.

--------
EDIT: As it turns out, my tint and color settings didn't change at all after calibrating with the color bars from my Blu-ray Black Hawk Down disc (the settings were first set using the Avia DVD). The brightness, however, dropped to 50 from 53. So I guess I'll change the brightness depending on if I'm watching a regular DVD or a Blu-ray disc.

I'm starting to wonder, however, if I'm setting the black level correctly. With the Pluge Bars, for instance, you are supposed to adjust the brightness until you can just barely see the right-most bar. But "barely see" from where? From your normal "sweet spot" seating position? From your nose pressed against the glass? Or from somewhere in between?


On top of the above, set gamma to -3 to get as high a gamma as you can OOTB per Doug's suggestion that this set looks good with a gamma as high as 2.4 (which you can't attain without getting into the service menu, but at -3 my set is around 2.3ish). You can try my settings, but I'm still tweaking the color and wondering if the Eye-One is having difficulties with it. Going to do some more when I get a chance.

Fiddled with a couple of the gamma settings in the SM, but they didn't seem to do much so I reset them (probably using the wrong ones).

With respect to the Pluge question, I would suggest from your normal seating position ...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1481 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 12:45 PM
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Oh, I also think color needs to be down a few more notches from CNet's settings personally as I find there is too much red. Might just be my set though ...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1482 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 01:35 PM
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Just unpacked this temporarily. I managed to haggle my way down to $1599 with cash and free warranty this morning on the 50A550.

I just set it up temporarily and adjusted some of the settings on this screen. Appreciate the work you guys put into finding those settings because it made a huge difference in viewing.

Pics to come once it's setup. I gotta go buy the stand this evening. Coming from a projection 1080i (that really only did 420p) this is a HUGE improvement.
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post #1483 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple View Post

9. breaking in the TV speakers would be akin to breaking in your clock radio...

Any audiophile knows that any high end speakers need to be broken in also (this does not apply to speakers built into TVs!)

Mike
Houston Comcast
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post #1484 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 06:45 PM
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My setup ...




LL
LL

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1485 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 06:47 PM
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Haven't cleaned up any of the wires yet. The strange black cover on the coffee table is one of those things to "soften" the corners for my 14 month old! Going to eventually mount the set and get a different audio rack (this was was perfect for my old Tosh RPTV as the height matched it).

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1486 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 07:05 PM
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UPDATED AUG 11 2008

Thought I'd edit this post to add two "free" burnable DVD setup discs for SD and HD. Really a no brainer to have with these sets to get your brightness/contrast/tint/color as close to correct as possible without measurement equipment:

AVSHD709 - http://www.avshd709.com/

Tom Huffmans SD DVDs - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536 (near end of first post)


Also, here is the "discussed at length" break in DVD. Use this if you wish to break in your set. Whether or not this is needed is constantly debated, so don't ask me!

http://eaprogramming.com/




My current settings:

Movie Mode
C 86
B 55
Col 43
Tint G52/R48
Cell Light: 10
Gamma -3
White Balance
23
23
24
25
24
26


Color Space:

Red
R 46
G 0
B 9

Green
R 40
G 52
B 27

Blue
R 5
G 0
B 40

Yellow
R 49
G 53
B 32

Cyan
Red 43
Green 53
Blue 51

Magenta
Red 45
Green 0
Blue 50


All other funky stuff off (Dynamic Contrast off, Black Adjust off).


I will keep this post updated for those who are interested. Have also included my HCFR Colorimter file for those of you that are interested.


Home Theater Magazine Settings:

Mode: Movie
Contrast: 85
Brightness: 52
Sharpness: 0
Color: 47
Tint: R49/G51
Color Tone: Warm2
Size: Just Scan (16:9 for 720p component and all 480i and 480p sources)
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: N/A in Movie Mode
Black Adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -3 or -2 (program dependent)
Color Space: Auto (Custom if calibrated)
While Balance:


Offset: Red 26, Green 27, Blue 25

Gain: Red 25, Green 22, Blue 37

Custom Color Space:

Red: Red 30, Green 0, Blue 6

Green: Red 41, Green 50, Blue 24

Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 50

Yellow: Red 54, Green 52, Blue 19

Cyan: Red 30, Green 58, Blue 56

Magenta: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 64

Flesh Tone: Off
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYCC: Off
Film Mode: Auto
HDMI Black Level: Low

UltimateAV Mag Review Settings

Image Settings
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 38
Sharpness: 0
Color: 46
Tint: G51/R49
Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -2
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
Color Space: Custom


Red
R: 30
G: 0
B: 6
Green
R: 41
G: 50
B: 24
Blue
R: 0
G: 0
B: 50
Yellow
R: 54
G: 52
B: 19
Cyan
R: 30
G: 58
B: 56
Magenta
R: 50
G: 0
B: 64
White Balance
R Offset: 26
G Offset: 27
B Offset: 26
R Gain: 25
G Gain: 22
B Gain: 32
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYCC: Off
Picture Options
Color Tone: Warm2
Size: Just Scan (1080i/p)
Digital NR: Auto
DNIe: Off
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: Off


Note: The same sample set was reviewed by both HTM and UAV, hence the almost identical settings save for white balance which differ ever so slightly.

 

Samsung 08-11-08 CustomColor (No Reon).zip 4.5517578125k . file

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1487 of 5666 Old 06-20-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

On top of the above, set gamma to -3 to get as high a gamma as you can OOTB per Doug's suggestion...

With respect to the Pluge question, I would suggest from your normal seating position ...

I updated my previous post with the gamma info plus provided a link to your updated settings.

Thanks for the suggestion about from where to view the Pluge bars. I guess in retrospect that makes sense. I was doing my readings with my eyes just a few inches from the screen, so after calibrating from the seating position, I had to bump up the brightness by two (from 53 to 55 for DVD viewing, from 50 to 52 for Blu-ray viewing).

BTW, I'm not entirely sure if there ought to be a difference in brightness between DVD and Blu-ray viewing. That's just the way it turned out after calibrating with the Avia DVD and then the color bars from my Black Hawk Down BD.
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post #1488 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classical View Post


BTW, I'm not entirely sure if there ought to be a difference in brightness between DVD and Blu-ray viewing. That's just the way it turned out after calibrating with the Avia DVD and then the color bars from my Black Hawk Down BD.


One thing I'm wondering is if there is a difference between setting color using an Avia disc vs. DVE HD Basics (or any HD disc). Given that HD utilizes a different color space (709 vs 601 for SD).

I was surprised when I used DVE HD Basics color pattern (not a blinking pattern like Avia), I got a 39 and G54 for color and tint. I seem to recall getting a higher Color setting when I used Avia's blinking pattern some time ago.

I'm also wondering if the fact that my Samsung BD1400 bluray player is upconverting the Avia disc to 1080p does anything to the signal.

Hmmm....

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1489 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:27 AM
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Upconverting DVD players are unpredictable for whether or not they perform the matrix transformation correctly from SD to HD colorspace, when set to output in a HD resolution.

If you do a search, you'll find some extensive discussions on how to figure that out.

I think Doug mentioned before that the TV stays inside the HD colorspace despite "Auto" being a misleading label. So that means the TV doesn't do any transformation. On the Panasonics there is a toggle between SD and HD when fed 480i over component or HDMI.

Either way, when the TV shows primary blue, then you should be getting the TV's native blue phosphor response regardless of color space. In other words, digital blue, whether it comes from a SD or HD DVD, is the same (R=0 G=0 B=235). But I think the SD-HD transform can affect tint.

Hopefully I have understood this right from all my reading.
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post #1490 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:30 AM
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Well, I looked through my old posts and found this one where I used the AVS709 HD disc to set brightness/color, etc. Here ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13940876

These settings are almost identical to the ones I ended up with above (and now in my linked sig) using the Eye-One to set brightness and greyscale, then using DVE HD Basics to set color/tint. I believe AV709 uses a blinking pattern, similar to Avia's but in HD, for color.

Not that there should be a difference between the two patterns (blinking vs the other), but I do find the blinking pattern a bit easier to use, personally.

Anyone with a BD or HD DVD player should download the AV709 disc, it's free and a great tool (www.avsHD709.com).

You really don't need to buy DVE HD Basics or Avia HD with the above disc (wish I knew that before buying the DVE HD Basics disc! Although, those two discs do come with Audio set up patterns which the 709 disc does not have.

I will update my current settings if/as they change in my linked signature below. Not sure we need a "calibration" thread as that would just confuse things and you end up with people posting the same stuff in both threads!!

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1491 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:35 AM
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Quote:


Either way, when the TV shows primary blue, then you should be getting the TV's native blue phosphor response regardless of color space. In other words, digital blue, whether it comes from a SD or HD DVD, is the same (R=0 G=0 B=235). But I think the SD-HD transform can affect tint.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this? Are you just saying that blue should be the same regardless of color space? Or that using a blue filter should yield the same result whether calibrating to 601 or 709?

Btw, have you gotten the chance to calibrate any of the A550's yet?

Tx

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1492 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 06:37 AM
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is anybody actually using dNR as suggested by cnet or is there a reason not to.
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post #1493 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Naimee View Post

is anybody actually using dNR as suggested by cnet or is there a reason not to.

I use it because I watch a lot of digital and HD cable and it does a pretty good job of eliminating/smoothing out noise. Technically I should turn it off when viewing Blurays, but I don't bother. I keep it on Auto...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1494 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 09:29 AM
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I have ordered the PN50A550 and the HT-A100T for my little sound system through Amazon that will arrive the 30th. Needless to say I am way excited.

I will be getting the Universal tilt wall mount XXL on the 27th so I can build the a bridge across the 37 inch opening for CRT style TVs above our corner fireplace. I will be using engineered lumber to provide the strength and resistance to twist, so I can "Float the 92 pound Plasma above the mantle. This will allow the few electronics to sit on the mantle within my "short" wife can reach the DVDs and such.

The only thing that suck is I will have to depend on my daughters and son-in-laws to provide the labor now. I fractured my left knee last Saturday and tore my left shoulder and hopefully the surgeries will be done mid-week so I can get everything ready for the "White Glove Guys" on the 30th they can just hang it on the wall mount. If they do I will take photos of that too!
Reguards,
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post #1495 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 09:37 AM
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Although the DVE HD Basics gets me to adjust Tint to G54, I ran some measurements at both G55 and G45. Moving to G55 favours yellow at the expense of Cyan and Magenta.

Going to G45 reigns in Cyan and Magenta, at the expense of yellow. Interesting.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #1496 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this? Are you just saying that blue should be the same regardless of color space? Or that using a blue filter should yield the same result whether calibrating to 601 or 709?

Btw, have you gotten the chance to calibrate any of the A550's yet?

Tx

I'm not a calibrator, but I have calibrated an A450 at my house.

The issue, as I understand it, and depending on how your components in the chain are setup, is that the actual signal chain goes more like this: YCrBr digitally encoded DVD -> YCrBr fed to the TV -> TV processes into RGB for display.

For each colorspace (SD or HD), there is a defined matrix for transforming RGB <-> YCrBr, and here is the step that may get messed up if your upconverting DVD player isn't behaving as expected, and your TV expects one or the other. What you want is for the encoded (R=0, G=0, B=235) to come out at the TV end, after the transform, to be also (R=0, G=0, B=235).

I should clarify my original statement: blue should look the same on the TV regardless of whether it's coming from a SD or HD source. All the encoding on the DVD says is "output a signal that is pure blue". If all the mathematical transforms are done properly, your TV will show nothing but blue, the blue that is native to the TV (in this case the blue phosphor will be closest to the HD Rec. 709 blue). If you feed your TV blue from a SD DVD, I don't think it's smart enough to automatically switch to the SD definition of blue, but it needs to be smart enough to apply the appropriate math to convert that SD YCrBr into RGB for displaying the final image.

This is why it's ok to use a SD DVD to calibrate a HDTV, as long as the transform from YCrBr to RGB is done correctly.

OK at this point I'm probably starting to talk over my head. I refer you to:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=810603

Edit: here's another good one: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1020927
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post #1497 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 12:30 PM
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On top of the above, set gamma to -3 to get as high a gamma as you can OOTB per Doug's suggestion that this set looks good with a gamma as high as 2.4 (which you can't attain without getting into the service menu, but at -3 my set is around 2.3ish). You can try my settings, but I'm still tweaking the color and wondering if the Eye-One is having difficulties with it. Going to do some more when I get a chance.

Fiddled with a couple of the gamma settings in the SM, but they didn't seem to do much so I reset them (probably using the wrong ones).

With respect to the Pluge question, I would suggest from your normal seating position ...

Just a reminder... I changed my recommendation to "use -3" to "I really don't know what User Menu setting will be best, because these displays don't all measure the same gamma out of the box. I don't know if Samsung started using new factory settings or what, but several people with meters have reported higher out-of-box gamma that indicates 0 or -1 in the User Menu is the best setting. I've now seen 2 more 550s and they both had higher gamma than my review sample out of the box, so -3 might be TOO MUCH gamma for displays with those settings. Still not enough samples to know if there was a settings change on some manufacturing date or what. But without a meter, you're just guessing about the best Gamma setting for any given display based on what I'm seeing and hearing beyond the review sample.

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post #1498 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Just a reminder... I changed my recommendation to "use -3" to "I really don't know what User Menu setting will be best, because these displays don't all measure the same gamma out of the box. I don't know if Samsung started using new factory settings or what, but several people with meters have reported higher out-of-box gamma that indicates 0 or -1 in the User Menu is the best setting. I've now seen 2 more 550s and they both had higher gamma than my review sample out of the box, so -3 might be TOO MUCH gamma for displays with those settings. Still not enough samples to know if there was a settings change on some manufacturing date or what. But without a meter, you're just guessing about the best Gamma setting for any given display based on what I'm seeing and hearing beyond the review sample.


Yeah, either my Eye-One is seriously off (which may be the case), or my set is way different from the one Cnet reviewed and the one you calibrated for Widescreen (I seem to recall you saying colors where pretty close OOTB).

Best I can get is 2.3 gamma, tried a couple things in the SM but haven't figured out which one affects gamma (the actual gamma setting in the Movie mode section of the SM didn't seem to, unless I did something incorrectly which I found odd). I'll figure it out when I have more time!!

 

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post #1499 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 05:42 PM
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I have this same problem with Crysis and my pn58a550 and I know exactly what you are talking about. I think the real problem has to do with DirectX 10. If you run Crysis with DX9 instead of DX10 you will not have this problem (right?). So the problem has to do with DX10 and not our displays (I believe).

I think the problem might be with the 8800 gtx and its ability to do 1080p. I'm using powerstrip to force the resolution but its almost as if it has a mind of its own and some days it works and some it doesnt its bizzarre....

A reply earlier told me to use the VGA and run it into the PC input on the pn50a550. That might work better as the HDMI/DVI input is wanting the stupid 24hz setting automatically... I have succeeded in getting 1920x1080@60hz a few times and it looks and performs great. Maybe I will just try to use the VGA
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post #1500 of 5666 Old 06-21-2008, 08:53 PM
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For those that bought the 50A550 at Big River the price has gone down, so if you are still under the 30 days you can get some money back.

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