Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 04:41 AM
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Has any noticed any brightness shifting while watching Law and Order on HD TNT? I'm trying ti determine if it's a source, cablebox or my Panny causing the problem. I've also noticed it while watching MotoGP racing on Speed in standard def too. What I mean by brightness shift is while watching a scene, usually a dim courtroom scene, the brightness all of a sudden bumps up slightly and holds. I not longer have my CRT tv so I can't check if it's my cable box. I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats.

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post #362 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

Has any noticed any brightness shifting while watching Law and Order on HD TNT? I'm trying ti determine if it's a source, cablebox or my Panny causing the problem. I've also noticed it while watching MotoGP racing on Speed in standard def too. What I mean by brightness shift is while watching a scene, usually a dim courtroom scene, the brightness all of a sudden bumps up slightly and holds. I not longer have my CRT tv so I can't check if it's my cable box. I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats.

"I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats"

I think you answered your question right there its the cable feed.
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post #363 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Artslinger View Post

"I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats"

I think you answered your question right there its the cable feed.

Not necessarily. By rewinding and playing the scene again I ruled out that it's not a fluke and that I can repeat the occurrence. It could be the case the Panny responds to specific scenes by bumping up brightness.

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post #364 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

Not necessarily. By rewinding and playing the scene again I ruled out that it's not a fluke and that I can repeat the occurrence. It could be the case the Panny responds to specific scenes by bumping up brightness.

All you're doing in that case is rewinding recorded material, if there was a flaw in the feed the brightness will always shift

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post #365 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

Has any noticed any brightness shifting while watching Law and Order on HD TNT? I'm trying ti determine if it's a source, cablebox or my Panny causing the problem. I've also noticed it while watching MotoGP racing on Speed in standard def too. What I mean by brightness shift is while watching a scene, usually a dim courtroom scene, the brightness all of a sudden bumps up slightly and holds. I not longer have my CRT tv so I can't check if it's my cable box. I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats.

I was watching law and order last night on TNT HD, I saw no colorshift at all. I currently have my settings running as suggested at the beginning of this forum. Here are my settings:

Cinema
Picture: 60
Brightness: 52
Color: 41
Tint: -2
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm
Black Level: Light
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post #366 of 2470 Old 06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post

So now my question to you would be- now that we know Best Buy Geek Squad is on the ISF trained list, is it still a better idea to choose someone else off the list? or better yet, would you choose someone at random or let your friend from Best Buy(ISF Certified) do it for free? You know more than me so I'm just trying to get some input and do appriciate any opinions.

I mean I understand a Pro does it for a living but I'm plagued with the question is Best Buy properly trained or not? and do I save $400 or not? Guess I can let my friend do it and if I'm not satisfied pay a Pro, but then I'm the kind of person that will wonder if it could be better and not know any better. I'm driving myself nuts about this.

Ask your friend the questions I outlined in the long post. If the answers don't make sense, I think I might skip over him.

There's no easy answer to your question/situation, but if you were reading between the lines, rather than picking an independent ISF pro at random, you might look for one with one of the high-end meters I mentioned - at least you'll find a calibrator who has made a very strong committment to his craft.

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post #367 of 2470 Old 06-04-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds27 View Post

Has any noticed any brightness shifting while watching Law and Order on HD TNT? I'm trying ti determine if it's a source, cablebox or my Panny causing the problem. I've also noticed it while watching MotoGP racing on Speed in standard def too. What I mean by brightness shift is while watching a scene, usually a dim courtroom scene, the brightness all of a sudden bumps up slightly and holds. I not longer have my CRT tv so I can't check if it's my cable box. I have DVR functions and when I rewind and play the same scene, the brightness shift repeats.

This is often referred to as floating blacks. Panasonic consumer models have done this to some extent for a while. Last year's models were more susceptible that the PZ8x models, but the PZ8x models can do it. The black level of the PDP actually changes in response to the APL (average picture level).

You can minimize floating blacks by reducing the Contrast setting, but I've never found anything that eliminates it completely.

This is another good reason to not mess around with cuts & gains in the service menu since there are settings that can be made there that seem to make the PDP more susceptible to floating blacks.

You can see the floating blacks pretty easily if you have a test disc that has 10%, 20%, 30%, etc window patterns. Display a darker pattern, then go to the next brighter step, wait 5 seconds or so. If the black level does not change switch the pattern to the next brightest step. At some point, you will very likely see the black surrounding the window pattern jump up in level significantly. If you have Contrast set low enough (but you don't want to go too low on these PDPs because the RGB tracking gets lumpier if you do), you should be able to display all the window patterns up to 100% without the black level jumping up. Obviously, a full field pattern won't reveal the issue because the whole screen will be filled.

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post #368 of 2470 Old 06-04-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Ask your friend the questions I outlined in the long post. If the answers don't make sense, I think I might skip over him.

There's no easy answer to your question/situation, but if you were reading between the lines, rather than picking an independent ISF pro at random, you might look for one with one of the high-end meters I mentioned - at least you'll find a calibrator who has made a very strong committment to his craft.

Thanks again for your advice. Much appreciated!!! I am going to ask my friend those questions you suggested first, then I think I'll check out these guys if I get the wrong answers

http://www.lionav.com/

I'm assuming they did a good job for pj121391 otherwise I assume he would not be recommending them. I could also ask about their equipment to be on the safe side.


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post #369 of 2470 Old 06-04-2008, 12:10 PM
 
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Lion is highly recommended. They should be calibrating mine the week before 7-4.
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post #370 of 2470 Old 06-04-2008, 11:27 PM
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Hello,

I own a 42pz80u. The reds are absolutely killing me. On both BD and cable. Skin tones are just way out of whack for both red and green. I have my settings low as I am still in the break-in period (40 range for picture and brightness and -4 tint; color is at 31ish)

Will a simple Spyder calibration fix my red and green? Will the spyder calibration improve the pq overall?

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post #371 of 2470 Old 06-04-2008, 11:28 PM
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Has anybody fully calibrated a PZ80U? Does it calibration the same as a PZ85U, with the same desirable results?

I see on page 1 of this thread that David S. did one, but no specifics were provided.
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post #372 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve44 View Post

Will a simple Spyder calibration fix my red and green? Will the spyder calibration improve the pq overall?

No, not even an ISF calibration will. You can tame it by using the normal color temp and turning the color control to 40 (30 is too low) or lower. Other than that you may need to start looking at another TV if it's that big a problem to you.
PS: This is just an opinion but spyder is a waste of money, save up your money for a real calibration

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post #373 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 04:51 AM
 
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I agree, just use the bluray rve before spending dough on Spyder. I bet you wont like the color settings and warm though on DVE, if you are unhappy now. I think Patrick is right, try normal and cool and see if you like it better.
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post #374 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 04:56 AM
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I don't know about you ElwayLite but I actually find skintones actually improved during the break in period. I'm using normal myself as I felt warm added too much of an orange tint to faces, with normal and the color at about 40 skintones seem pretty accurate and the colors still look natural (to me anyways maybe not a pro). I can understand how some people might find skintones bothersome though out of the box

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post #375 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 04:59 AM
 
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I agree, the tv seemed to improve with hours, getting over 100 is a biggie. Tom saw changes in the brightness setting and on/off contrast ratio, nothing to see these other issues didnt improve with use. Im very happy with my 85u on Warm NOW, guess Im over 300 hours probably.
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post #376 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 08:43 AM
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The Lion AV guys are excellent, if there's one in your area or who travels to your area, you will be satisfied with the calibration.

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post #377 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

Has anybody fully calibrated a PZ80U? Does it calibration the same as a PZ85U, with the same desirable results?

I see on page 1 of this thread that David S. did one, but no specifics were provided.

I have not had mine professionally calibrated as I am extremely happy with the settings Elway posted. I hear the screen panels are different, but I am guessing they are configured the same... I say that because of how good mine looks with Elway's settings. He has an 85 and I have an 80.
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post #378 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 12:32 PM
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Actually I heard the screen panels are the same, only the glass part number is different.
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post #379 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Lion is highly recommended. They should be calibrating mine the week before 7-4.

Anyone hear of Dan Miller, he is from NJ, I aas thinking about going with him to calibrate my 46 PZ85U.

http://www.lionav.com/mdanmiller.php
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post #380 of 2470 Old 06-05-2008, 09:58 PM
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I got into the SM today, but couldn't scroll through anything? I was trying to get my hours. I did the info 3x trick and a static menu box popped up with a bunch of stuff I didn't understand. Why couldn't I scroll through anything?


So, from what I understand; a calibration (ISF, etc.) will do nothing for me or the tv? (42pz80u)
(The spyder calibration was/is free, BTW)

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post #381 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve44 View Post

I got into the SM today, but couldn't scroll through anything? I was trying to get my hours. I did the info 3x trick and a static menu box popped up with a bunch of stuff I didn't understand. Why couldn't I scroll through anything?


So, from what I understand; a calibration (ISF, etc.) will do nothing for me or the tv? (42pz80u)
(The spyder calibration was/is free, BTW)

It will do something for sure, they will calibrate the grayscale for you and set optimal picture values. This won't get rid of the red you're talking about though. If you don't understand what you're doing for godssake stay out of the SM unless you feel like voiding your warranty and/or damaging the TV. The bottom line is there is no way of adjusting what you want to fix in the SM because Panasonic locks out certain controls on these models to fuel sales for the higher end sets.

Maybe an 800u might be more to your liking, these have more potential than the 85u to have "perfect" settings

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post #382 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I agree, the tv seemed to improve with hours, getting over 100 is a biggie. Tom saw changes in the brightness setting and on/off contrast ratio, nothing to see these other issues didnt improve with use. Im very happy with my 85u on Warm NOW, guess Im over 300 hours probably.

Yeah I can definitely notice it improving. I am on day 3 of 24/7 discovery HD and I have it running on Standard while im not watching and when I watch I switch to Cinema using your settings. And during those switch's I can tell a noticeable difference from day 1 to day 3 now.
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post #383 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

It will do something for sure, they will calibrate the grayscale for you and set optimal picture values. This won't get rid of the red you're talking about though. If you don't understand what you're doing for godssake stay out of the SM unless you feel like voiding your warranty and/or damaging the TV. The bottom line is there is no way of adjusting what you want to fix in the SM because Panasonic locks out certain controls on these models to fuel sales for the higher end sets.

Maybe an 800u might be more to your liking, these have more potential than the 85u to have "perfect" settings


Really not worried about the warranty. I was trying to access my hours of use, as I said, if you re-read my post. I didn't change a thing, and certainly wasn't trying to. My question still stands.

Getting a 50pz850u in a couple months...

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post #384 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve44 View Post

I got into the SM today, but couldn't scroll through anything? I was trying to get my hours. I did the info 3x trick and a static menu box popped up with a bunch of stuff I didn't understand. Why couldn't I scroll through anything?


So, from what I understand; a calibration (ISF, etc.) will do nothing for me or the tv? (42pz80u)
(The spyder calibration was/is free, BTW)

THX Certified doesn't mean THX Calibrated. THX Certified loudspeakers and AVRs still require careful setup. Professional audio calibration will improve the results you achieve with those products significantly. It's the same for THX Certified video displays.

I think it is a mistake to assume an ISF or THX video calibration would do nothing for you if you own a THX Certified video display.

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post #385 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

This is often referred to as floating blacks. Panasonic consumer models have done this to some extent for a while. Last year's models were more susceptible that the PZ8x models, but the PZ8x models can do it. The black level of the PDP actually changes in response to the APL (average picture level).

You can minimize floating blacks by reducing the Contrast setting, but I've never found anything that eliminates it completely.

This is another good reason to not mess around with cuts & gains in the service menu since there are settings that can be made there that seem to make the PDP more susceptible to floating blacks.

You can see the floating blacks pretty easily if you have a test disc that has 10%, 20%, 30%, etc window patterns. Display a darker pattern, then go to the next brighter step, wait 5 seconds or so. If the black level does not change switch the pattern to the next brightest step. At some point, you will very likely see the black surrounding the window pattern jump up in level significantly. If you have Contrast set low enough (but you don't want to go too low on these PDPs because the RGB tracking gets lumpier if you do), you should be able to display all the window patterns up to 100% without the black level jumping up. Obviously, a full field pattern won't reveal the issue because the whole screen will be filled.

Doug,

Thank you for your very thorough answer. I wasn't sure if the issue was with my levels and thresholds or if it was a processing issue typical of the tv. I haven't done any customization to the tv since I got it. I tried AVIA and Essentials but the settings didn't differ much from default so I left the tv on Cinema at the default factory settings.

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post #386 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
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If you are watching a 1080 source, there should be no "junk" lines around the edges. If there is a junk line on one side or more than one side, something put the line there - the channel/program, the provider (cable/satellite network, broadcast network, etc.), or the video display.

I have DISH and all the high-def channels are fine in pixel-for-pixel mode... except the server NBC uses for The Tonight Show puts a single-pixel white line on the left edge of the image. Can't blame the display for that, it's not supposed to be there. And it's not there for prime time network programming, daytime programming or local programming.

Doug

I too saw what is happening when changing the setting to Size 2, some channels come in fine, but for example MOJO has that damn white line down the left side of the screen. Even when you watch an HD channels and a 4:3 commercial comes on there is noise on top of the picture in Size 2 but Size 1 elimnates it. The Panny manual does say if you see noise in any picture set it to size 1, but size 1 is 95% and Size 2 is 100%. This does not seem right to me. Should I call Panny and see what they say?
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post #387 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob316 View Post

Doug

I too saw what is happening when changing the setting to Size 2, some channels come in fine, but for example MOJO has that damn white line down the left side of the screen. Even when you watch an HD channels and a 4:3 commercial comes on there is noise on top of the picture in Size 2 but Size 1 elimnates it. The Panny manual does say if you see noise in any picture set it to size 1, but size 1 is 95% and Size 2 is 100%. This does not seem right to me. Should I call Panny and see what they say?

It's not a display issue, it's in the signal. Even some HD channels, showing HD content (like Mojo) will have junk at the edges of the screen. They are still expecting it to be hidden by overscan, even though many newer TVs don't always have that.

Don't call Panasonic about it.
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post #388 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

It's not a display issue, it's in the signal. Even some HD channels, showing HD content (like Mojo) will have junk at the edges of the screen. They are still expecting it to be hidden by overscan, even though many newer TVs don't always have that.

Don't call Panasonic about it.

My question is this then will setting it to Size 1 which zooms it a little bit take away the picture quality?
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post #389 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 12:34 PM
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My question is this then will setting it to Size 1 which zooms it a little bit take away the picture quality?

A little bit, yes. It is slightly stretching/rescaling the image when overscanning it.

Just from showroom viewing, I could see a (minor) difference watching 1080P from a BD demo loop. On a crappy BB 1080i feed I couldn't see any noticeable PQ difference from normal viewing distances. YMMV.

You could try complaining to your service provider, and/or the operator of the channel that has the video artifacts (or the specific show, if it is just one program with an issue.) They're the ones that might actually be able to fix the feed.
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post #390 of 2470 Old 06-06-2008, 01:23 PM
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Size 1 vs Size 2 is a pretty minor difference.
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