Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by StuJac View Post

How many times has this been said? You'd think people would get the message already; those of us who have experimented every conceivable way know that the only reliable setting is cinema. Given good source material the picture is stunning in cinema and almost unwatchable in any other mode.

I totally agree! My wife keeps telling me that certain scenes on either DirecTV or BD are "too dark", but I keep telling her that this is the way they are supposed to look. LCDs would tend to brighten them to her satisfaction, but it would not be "natural". Maybe I will stay in Cinema and boost the picture setting when she watches with me

"Reciprocity is the wellspring of friendship..."
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post #632 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sengutso View Post

i got mine calibrated by an isf professional elite last wednesday for 300 bucks for my PANASONIC TH42PZ85U. this guy pulled out a 12,000 dollar spectrometer and stuck that thing in front of my tv screen and he started adjusting grayscale and other stuff. and here are the results i hope this will make u guys happy for those who own a th42pz85u out there.

Cinema

Picture: +74
Brightness: +60
Color: +34
Tint: +5
Sharpness +50
Color Temp: warm
color management: off

Service menu settings for cinema

r drive: d3
g drive: fc
b drive: a2
r cut: 87
g cut: 80
b cut: 87

This basically nailed in my test disk setting color bars [Avia]. Thank you.

One thing I noticed though that should be mentioned, and I'm not sure I know how to say it right. Avia is an SD disk, so when using it to test, I found that if I didn't have the TV set to "SD" on the "Color Matrix" setting (found in the user menu under 'Advanced') that it would not come out correctly. But in order for this to work right, you have to turn off all upconversions, either on your DVD player (on PS3 you have to take it off of the normal setting and set it to off) or receiver. If you do, your TV will detect the correct Color Matrix and auto switch from HD to SD accordingly. If you don't, your TV
will detect the upconverted signal of a standard definition disk incorrectly as "HD" and your greyscale will be off.

You can test it this way... turn off all upconversion of a regular DVD, now go into Avia (or even just watch any regular DVD, you will see the difference) and switch between SD and HD on the "Color Matrix" setting on your TV (if it's grey'd out, that means it's being upconverted somewhere). You will see the color bars on the Avia test disk go way out of whack, and if you're just watching a regular dvd (or say a Wii game) you will see that SD is the proper setting.

My color bars are now at 0, 0, 0 with your service menu settings and the Color Matrix on SD in Avia; on the HD setting in Avia, they are red = +15, green = -20 and of course blue is always right on since you use blue to calibrate.

I hope that all made sense and someone else can verify what I'm saying. I only mention it b/c I did not know this before and was upconverting everything and all my SD material was off. If this is common knowledge, forgive my post. A good example I found is the Wii, since it's an SD source, switch between SD and HD on the Color Matrix setting and you will see the big difference and how SD is absolutely the correct setting for that source. Before, since my receiver was upconverting everything to 1080p, including the Wii, the TV detected the Color Matrix as "HD" and Wii games looked like crap. Now I have the upconversion turned off and the TV auto-detects and sets the Color Matrix setting to "SD" for the Wii, and it looks great.

P.S. do not fear turning off upconversion on your players, the TV upconverts it also, in many cases as good as or even better than your player; plus it does it after it detects the proper color matrix setting.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #633 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 08:27 AM
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You are right. It is very important not to try to adjust the color with an upconverted DVD because the wrong colorspace will be adjusted. You have to use 480 resolution on dvd's to adjust SD color, and use a true HD colorspace source to adjust 1080 or 720 color.
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post #634 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price3 View Post

You are right. It is very important not to try to adjust the color with an upconverted DVD because the wrong colorspace will be adjusted. You have to use 480 resolution on dvd's to adjust SD color, and use a true HD colorspace source to adjust 1080 or 720 color.

Some upconverting DVD players properly convert the SD colorspace to the HD colorspace. In that case it should be okay to use a DVD to calibrate color.
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post #635 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price3 View Post

You have to use 480 resolution on dvd's to adjust SD color, and use a true HD colorspace source to adjust 1080 or 720 color.

This part is not true.

You can use a SD DVD (Avia, GetGray, etc.) to adjust the colors on your HDTV, regardless of colorspace.

The DVD is encoded with only information that tells the TV to display a primary or secondary color (e.g. show red and turn green and blue off). This is true whether the DVD is SD or HD. As long as your TV is smart enough to use the correct set of matrix equations to convert that signal internally to RGB (and the Panasonic is smart enough to do this), then when the encoded data on the DVD says "show me only red" the TV should show only red at its designated luminance.

Now, because the phosphors on the TV are HDTV phosphors (well...they're supposed to be, but we all know red and green are oversaturated natively), you will get a color that is supposed to conform to the HDTV Rec 709 standard.

This means that when you use a SD DVD to calibrate color, you are not calibrating to the SD BTU 609 colorspace. In fact, if the TV is doing the matrix transformation properly, you'll see the same primary color that is native to the TV (i.e. HDTV colorspace primaries).

Now, you are right that if you try to upconvert, then all bets are off, because you don't really know what your DVD player might be doing.
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post #636 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

This basically nailed in my test disk setting color bars [Avia]. Thank you.

One thing I noticed though that should be mentioned, and I'm not sure I know how to say it right. Avia is an SD disk, so when using it to test, I found that if I didn't have the TV set to "SD" on the "Color Matrix" setting (found in the user menu under 'Advanced') that it would not come out correctly. But in order for this to work right, you have to turn off all upconversions, either on your DVD player (on PS3 you have to take it off of the normal setting and set it to off) or receiver. If you do, your TV will detect the correct Color Matrix and auto switch from HD to SD accordingly. If you don't, your TV
will detect the upconverted signal of a standard definition disk incorrectly as "HD" and your greyscale will be off.

You can test it this way... turn off all upconversion of a regular DVD, now go into Avia (or even just watch any regular DVD, you will see the difference) and switch between SD and HD on the "Color Matrix" setting on your TV (if it's grey'd out, that means it's being upconverted somewhere). You will see the color bars on the Avia test disk go way out of whack, and if you're just watching a regular dvd (or say a Wii game) you will see that SD is the proper setting.

My color bars are now at 0, 0, 0 with your service menu settings and the Color Matrix on SD in Avia; on the HD setting in Avia, they are red = +15, green = -20 and of course blue is always right on since you use blue to calibrate.

I hope that all made sense and someone else can verify what I'm saying. I only mention it b/c I did not know this before and was upconverting everything and all my SD material was off. If this is common knowledge, forgive my post. A good example I found is the Wii, since it's an SD source, switch between SD and HD on the Color Matrix setting and you will see the big difference and how SD is absolutely the correct setting for that source. Before, since my receiver was upconverting everything to 1080p, including the Wii, the TV detected the Color Matrix as "HD" and Wii games looked like crap. Now I have the upconversion turned off and the TV auto-detects and sets the Color Matrix setting to "SD" for the Wii, and it looks great.

P.S. do not fear turning off upconversion on your players, the TV upconverts it also, in many cases as good as or even better than your player; plus it does it after it detects the proper color matrix setting.



My color bars are now at 0, 0, 0 with your service menu settings and the Color Matrix on SD in Avia; on the HD setting in Avia, they are red = +15, green = -20 and of course blue is always right on since you use blue to calibrate.

Thank you very, very much for this information!!
I have also been getting the red up high (+15%) and green low (-20%) with Avia and the color filters, with my DVD player output in upconvert to 1080i mode on HDMI, and couldn't understand why.
I even switched to component output with 1080i upconversion and it was the same, so I added a -1dB RCA attenuator on the red line to get it down to normal.

Now I'll try switching my DVD player to regular 480p output mode and SD color matrix too, thanks!

Too bad there isn't a color push test pattern like Avia's available on cable like HDnet to test a true HD color matrix setup too.
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post #637 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

My color bars are now at 0, 0, 0 with your service menu settings and the Color Matrix on SD in Avia; on the HD setting in Avia, they are red = +15, green = -20 and of course blue is always right on since you use blue to calibrate.

Thank you very, very much for this information!!
I have also been getting the red up high (+15%) and green low (-20%) with Avia and the color filters, with my DVD player output in upconvert to 1080i mode on HDMI, and couldn't understand why.
I even switched to component output with 1080i upconversion and it was the same, so I added a -1dB RCA attenuator on the red line to get it down to normal.

Now I'll try switching my DVD player to regular 480p output mode and SD color matrix too, thanks!

Too bad there isn't a color push test pattern like Avia's available on cable like HDnet to test a true HD color matrix setup too.

No problem, I figured there were others out there running into this also. Also, I thought there was a DVE (Digital Video Essentials) calibration disk on Blu-Ray disk. Though I don't think you need it, since you can calibrate with Avia and the SD color matrix setting... it should be correct for HD stuff too since this TV auto detects between the two color matrix's and sets it accordingly, as long as you have any upconversion turned off (otherwise the TV sees it as HD, you can tell because it will be set there and grey'd out and not allow you to change it); as someone else said, there may be upconverting players that do this also, I just know the PS3 doesn't, nor does my receiver (Onkyo 875, which is supposed to be a top notch upconverter, and even it doesn't do it correctly, so I doubt most peoples do, and if it does, you probably know it does). The cool thing is, I don't have to change anything, the TV sets it properly automatically now that I turned off the upconversion in the PS3 and in my receiver. Granted, my receiver upconverts better than even this TV does, but it's not worth it because then my TV improperly detects and sets it to the HD color matrix and ruins the greyscale for that source (so DVD's and Wii games look terrible).

You also might give his service menu settings a try, they made a HUGE difference on my TV! Without his calibrated settings, the color bars are still off in Avia (though not as bad). Though all warnings apply: don't go in there if you don't know what you're doing and for the love of God, write all the original settings down before you change anything!

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #638 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 07:19 PM
 
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Just bought a 6500K fluor bulb (18") and a small shop light to go behind the tv. After blocking out some of the bulb to reduce the brightness, I really like the POP it gives the tv when watching movies in the dark.
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post #639 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sengutso View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by E-riko View Post

hi,
can somebody post or confirm the default service menu settings?

R-drive = D7
G-drive = FC
B-drive = D0
R-cut = 80
G-cut = 80
B-cut = 80
WB method = 3

are these the default settings?

yup thats how was mine before it was changed by isf professional

Based on your settings you listed post calibration...

r drive: d3
g drive: fc
b drive: a2
r cut: 87
g cut: 80
b cut: 87

That means you went down a whole 46 notches on the Blue-Drive? Is that correct? Seems like a LOT to change for one drive. Your Red-Drive only went down 4, Green-Drive didn't change... and 46 down on Blue?!?! From D0 down to A2, I counted that as 46 (I was trying the offset difference on my TV instead of your actual settings. So since he went down 4 on your r-d, i went down 4 on mine vs. using your absolute settings. Just to see how it came out.

btw those are not my default settings, mine are much different.. are you saying you had the EXACT defaults as his TV? I find that hard to comprehend. Also, just to verify, were those your Cinema default service menu settings or your Standard (you listed both)?

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #640 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Just bought a 6500K fluor bulb (18") and a small shop light to go behind the tv. After blocking out some of the bulb to reduce the brightness, I really like the POP it gives the tv when watching movies in the dark.

I still gotta do this
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post #641 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

No problem, I figured there were others out there running into this also. Also, I thought there was a DVE (Digital Video Essentials) calibration disk on Blu-Ray disk. Though I don't think you need it, since you can calibrate with Avia and the SD color matrix setting... it should be correct for HD stuff too since this TV auto detects between the two color matrix's and sets it accordingly, as long as you have any upconversion turned off (otherwise the TV sees it as HD, you can tell because it will be set there and grey'd out and not allow you to change it); as someone else said, there may be upconverting players that do this also, I just know the PS3 doesn't, nor does my receiver (Onkyo 875, which is supposed to be a top notch upconverter, and even it doesn't do it correctly, so I doubt most peoples do, and if it does, you probably know it does). The cool thing is, I don't have to change anything, the TV sets it properly automatically now that I turned off the upconversion in the PS3 and in my receiver. Granted, my receiver upconverts better than even this TV does, but it's not worth it because then my TV improperly detects and sets it to the HD color matrix and ruins the greyscale for that source (so DVD's and Wii games look terrible).

You also might give his service menu settings a try, they made a HUGE difference on my TV! Without his calibrated settings, the color bars are still off in Avia (though not as bad). Though all warnings apply: don't go in there if you don't know what you're doing and for the love of God, write all the original settings down before you change anything!


I retested and recalibrated with my DVD player set for 480p output on component today and sure enough with the color space now in SD mode (which wasn't possible with any HD format input on HDMI or component) the AVIA DVD now had much better red and green color levels, close to the same as blue with default gray scale settings in the service menu.
In fact with a 480p format input on component video, I could switch in the Panasonic's color space setting between SD and HD format and "see" with a color bar test pattern from AVIA the green level go down and the red level go up before my eyes with HD vs SD, exactly as the color push pattern showed with upconvert mode!

Now I just hope that with a proper HD input in HD colorspace that the red and green levels are like they are now with my DVD player in 480p output mode. Seems to make upconverting DVDs worthless unless there are some DVD players that can properly convert SD DVDs to HD colorspace with HD upconversion? Apparently my LG model doesn't do that colorspace conversion.
I don't have a HD-DVD or Bluray player so don't know if they all upconvert SD DVDs properly converting to the HD colorspace. I wish HDnet provided their old test patterns, I haven't seen that on their schedule for a long time, to fully check the HD mode with a proper HD colorspace signal.


By the way I found that in the Panasonic's PZ80U service menu that the stored grayscale and other settings are stored separately for SD(480i/480p) format vs HD(1080i/720p) format, shows as "FORMAT" in the service menu info based on which format was active prior to going into the service menu.

So if you alter your grayscale settings (cuts/drvs) only for HD format you haven't changed them for any 480i/480p SD colorspace sources apparently unless you do that separately by powering the TV off, powering on, selecting an SD source and entering service menu and changing items again.

I did try last night the recently posted colortemp=warm grayscale service menu item values (after writing down my set's intial values) for HD format. They didn't seem to "hurt" my white-balance, at least viewing white and gray screen test patterns didn't have any noticeably major change in colorcast relative to the original values. Couldn't really tell if it was better or worse for most sources since I had no way to quickly go back and forth and compare a scene between the two settings other than trying to remember in my mind since it takes so long to change all the settings back and forth. I wonder if the original poster who had his set calibrated, if they calibrated the grayscale for both HD colorspace and separately for SD colorspace, if they have a DVD player with 480i or 480p output format too, since the posted values are probably only valid for an HD colorspace source.
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post #642 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 09:20 PM
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The earlier posted intial grayscale defaults may not be correct for all sets. Not sure if it was for which color temp either.

Here are the initial factory settings I wrote down from my 46PZ80U I purchased a few weeks ago. I found today that the settings are saved independently for SD and HD formats, also separate for each of the color temps (warm,normal,cool).

My 46PZ80U initial service menu grayscale settings in (Cinema) HD format:
Color temp = Warm
R-CUT 80 G-CUT 80 B-CUT 80
R-DRV ED G-DRV FC B-DRV A5

Color temp = Normal
R-CUT 80 G-CUT 80 B-CUT 80
R-DRV E5 G-DRV FC B-DRV D3

Color temp = Cool
R-CUT 80 G-CUT 80 B-CUT 80
R-DRV E9 G-DRV FC B-DRV F1
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post #643 of 2470 Old 07-11-2008, 09:55 PM
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Grayscale should be the same between HD and SD. This makes sense, as both standards are defined with D65 as white.

Once you have calibrated grayscale using a particular source (HD or SD, doesn't matter), just copy the values, switch to another source (i.e. switch input source so that you switch from HD to SD, or vice versa - you can do this while in the service menu), and use the same HEX values for RGB. Bingo.

Also, you guys are taking grayscale measurements in user mode, and not while the service menu is up, right? The TV behaves differently while in service mode, regardless of what you set the picture mode (cinema, standard, etc.) to be inside the service menu.

So measure in user mode, adjust in service mode, and reiterate.
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post #644 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 03:02 AM
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It would be good if some folks with PZ80 or PZ85 models (new or unchanged from original service menu settings) could post their factory default settings in the service menu for the grayscale settings for each of the color temps (warm, normal, cool) in HD and SD format, for reference and comparison.
I wonder if they are all the same from the factory even for the same model, also any variation between PZ80,PZ85, and different sizes. Please post your factory defaults for as many different models as possible here so we can see any variation.
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post #645 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Just bought a 6500K fluor bulb (18") and a small shop light to go behind the tv. After blocking out some of the bulb to reduce the brightness, I really like the POP it gives the tv when watching movies in the dark.

Nice Purchase El, I bought mine thru Lion AV when Greg was coming to Calibrate my sets back in May. They have been one of the best investments I've made for Home Theater Viewing.
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post #646 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

You guys just don't get it, you are getting a WORSE picture by using custom. So many people went to trouble to get good settings for this TV and you just completely ignore them. How can you not see the horrible noise in the other modes?? Loss of color? Are you kidding me? Even in Cinema the TV is way too saturated. Once again cinema is NOT soft, or did you just completely ignore my post too? I don't mind you using your own settings just don't bother posting them here because they aren't helping anyone and it ruins the work that the Pros like Tom did to give us the right info on the TV.

Patrick, I have tried the Cinema settings and after 3/4 hour of watching tv, it bothered me, what I can't explain But tried the Custom settings and I can watch all day,

Now, I have not changed the Service settings cause I don't know how to get in there and don't know what to change.

Maybe its a personal taste.

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post #647 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

In fact with a 480p format input on component video, I could switch in the Panasonic's color space setting between SD and HD format and "see" with a color bar test pattern from AVIA the green level go down and the red level go up before my eyes with HD vs SD, exactly as the color push pattern showed with upconvert mode!

Now I just hope that with a proper HD input in HD colorspace that the red and green levels are like they are now with my DVD player in 480p output mode. Seems to make upconverting DVDs worthless unless there are some DVD players that can properly convert SD DVDs to HD colorspace with HD upconversion? Apparently my LG model doesn't do that colorspace conversion.
I don't have a HD-DVD or Bluray player so don't know if they all upconvert SD DVDs properly converting to the HD colorspace. I wish HDnet provided their old test patterns, I haven't seen that on their schedule for a long time, to fully check the HD mode with a proper HD colorspace signal.


By the way I found that in the Panasonic's PZ80U service menu that the stored grayscale and other settings are stored separately for SD(480i/480p) format vs HD(1080i/720p) format, shows as "FORMAT" in the service menu info based on which format was active prior to going into the service menu.

So if you alter your grayscale settings (cuts/drvs) only for HD format you haven't changed them for any 480i/480p SD colorspace sources apparently unless you do that separately by powering the TV off, powering on, selecting an SD source and entering service menu and changing items again.

I did try last night the recently posted colortemp=warm grayscale service menu item values (after writing down my set's intial values) for HD format. They didn't seem to "hurt" my white-balance, at least viewing white and gray screen test patterns didn't have any noticeably major change in colorcast relative to the original values. Couldn't really tell if it was better or worse for most sources since I had no way to quickly go back and forth and compare a scene between the two settings other than trying to remember in my mind since it takes so long to change all the settings back and forth. I wonder if the original poster who had his set calibrated, if they calibrated the grayscale for both HD colorspace and separately for SD colorspace, if they have a DVD player with 480i or 480p output format too, since the posted values are probably only valid for an HD colorspace source.

Great post! I noticed the exact same thing last night. Also, instead of using his absolute values, I counted the number in the change that he made (since he listed his default values). Though I think he made a mistake on his Blue-Drive. Doing this, I went back to my default service menu values and changed my values the same + or - amount of times he did. Then I switched sources to SD and went back in the service menu and made the same changes. For instance, this is what I came up with...

Red-Drive - 4 from default
Green-Drive = same as default
Blue-Drive - 5 from default

Red-Cut + 7 from default
Green-Cut = same as default
Blue-Cut + 7 from default

Joxer, considering your listed defaults, you might try the same. This made mine look the best yet and I'm very happy with my greyscale now. Granted, it's not perfect of course, but there is no doubt in my eyes it's much, much closer and there's no doubt it looks better and much closer to my ISF calibrated 36" CRT HDTV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

Grayscale should be the same between HD and SD. This makes sense, as both standards are defined with D65 as white.

Once you have calibrated grayscale using a particular source (HD or SD, doesn't matter), just copy the values, switch to another source (i.e. switch input source so that you switch from HD to SD, or vice versa - you can do this while in the service menu), and use the same HEX values for RGB. Bingo.

Also, you guys are taking grayscale measurements in user mode, and not while the service menu is up, right? The TV behaves differently while in service mode, regardless of what you set the picture mode (cinema, standard, etc.) to be inside the service menu.

So measure in user mode, adjust in service mode, and reiterate.

Yes, I made the changes in the service menu, exited the service menu, then go into Avia and measure and set the user menu settings.

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post #648 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

It would be good if some folks with PZ80 or PZ85 models (new or unchanged from original service menu settings) could post their factory default settings in the service menu for the grayscale settings for each of the color temps (warm, normal, cool) in HD and SD format, for reference and comparison.
I wonder if they are all the same from the factory even for the same model, also any variation between PZ80,PZ85, and different sizes. Please post your factory defaults for as many different models as possible here so we can see any variation.

Mine...

Warm, Cinema, both SD and HD values were set as such (default)...

r-c = 80
g-c = 80
b-c = 80

r-d = FC
g-d = FB
b-d = A7

color = 3d
tint = 03
sub-bright = 7eb

...my new settings, using his offsets...

r-c = 87
g-c = 80
b-c = 87

r-d = F8
g-d = FB
b-d = A2

Though I cannot be sure of his defaults (I hope he clarifies them) since there's no doubt I believe he made a mistake on his initial Blue-Drive setting. (btw someone showed their default service menu settings and he quoted them to say those were his too, but I really doubt that).

I am pretty sure everybody's cuts are the same, all set to 80.

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post #649 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 09:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by frankmar View Post

Patrick, I have tried the Cinema settings and after 3/4 hour of watching tv, it bothered me, what I can't explain But tried the Custom settings and I can watch all day,

Now, I have not changed the Service settings cause I don't know how to get in there and don't know what to change.

Maybe its a personal taste.

First off, 3/4 hours isnt long enough to get used to the dimness. Secondly, Custom is not giving you the best PQ, but if you are happy with it, fine.
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post #650 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 11:25 AM
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Is going into the service menu of the 42pz85 and adjusting the RGB values easy? I'm currently using settings which are very close to Tom's settings but wondering if it could be even better. Would I have to reset my user settings to default and than make service menu adjustments or does it not matter?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Is going into the service menu of the 42pz85 and adjusting the RGB values easy? I'm currently using settings which are very close to Tom's settings but wondering if it could be even better. Would I have to reset my user settings to default and than make service menu adjustments or does it not matter?

do not risk it unless you read up and study on everything you need to do, and even then, I hesitate to recommend it. if for some reason you do, do not do ANYTHING untill you write down all your default settings, please do not do anything until you've done that.

it's not really hard, but there are some things you should know... try reading through this thread and gather the info before you do, if you decide to.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

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post #652 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 02:26 PM
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hey all, I made a post in the owners thread, but no answer as of yet. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5105

Short version is i got my set a week ago today, very happy. I only have about40-50 hours on it. I don't have the break in dvd, although I limit games and bars. My question/problem is that grays look greenish at times. Will a calibration help with this(?), or even time as the set is still a baby. I see the trails/fringing rarely, but not enough to bother me.
Thanks for any input
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post #653 of 2470 Old 07-12-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Mine...
Warm, Cinema, both SD and HD values were set as such (default)...

r-c = 80
g-c = 80
b-c = 80

r-d = FC
g-d = FB
b-d = A7

color = 3d
tint = 03
sub-bright = 7eb

Thanks for posting your factory default grayscale settings, I hope others do as well and include their model number.
Yours are quite different than my default settings. I wonder if they vary tha much from unit to unit, or from model to model.
I have a 46PZ80U.

I see someone posted today in a thread a sequence to reset the plasma to its initial state where it asks you the question is it for Home or Store use? I wonder if that would reset the grayscale service menu settings as well to the initial values particular to that model/unit?
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post #654 of 2470 Old 07-13-2008, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Some upconverting DVD players properly convert the SD colorspace to the HD colorspace. In that case it should be okay to use a DVD to calibrate color.

Do you or anyone know which upconverting DVD players do that correctly?
Do the highly rated Oppo upconverting DVD players for example properly convert SD DVDs to the HD colorspace?

I found this detailed information about whats required for upconverting DVD players:
Besides upscaling 480p to HD resolutions, the players also have to convert SD "color space" standard from the disc to HD "color space" standard (REC601 vs REC709) that the display expects when getting a HDTV standard resolution.
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post #655 of 2470 Old 07-13-2008, 08:20 AM
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Yes, the idea is to make sure the TV uses the right set of matrix equations (HD or SD) to interpret incoming YCbCr, in order to transform them properly to RGB that is native to the TV.

None of this would be an issue if the TV let you select HD or SD colorspace when fed any resolution, but many TV's make that choice for you (e.g. force HD colorspace when fed 1080i). I guess this makes sense for the people who don't tweak the settings on their TVs (probably 95% of average consumers ).

I think the DVD forum would be a good resource, and maybe even the calibration forum.

The fact is the whole thing could be a bit unpredictable. Someone recently posted that their expensive AV receiver with Reon upconverting was actually not doing the colorspace transform properly, so even the high end stuff sometimes screws it up.
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post #656 of 2470 Old 07-13-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

Yes, the idea is to make sure the TV uses the right set of matrix equations (HD or SD) to interpret incoming YCbCr, in order to transform them properly to RGB that is native to the TV.

None of this would be an issue if the TV let you select HD or SD colorspace when fed any resolution, but many TV's make that choice for you (e.g. force HD colorspace when fed 1080i). I guess this makes sense for the people who don't tweak the settings on their TVs (probably 95% of average consumers ).

I think the DVD forum would be a good resource, and maybe even the calibration forum.

The fact is the whole thing could be a bit unpredictable. Someone recently posted that their expensive AV receiver with Reon upconverting was actually not doing the colorspace transform properly, so even the high end stuff sometimes screws it up.

I have the Onkyo 875 w/ Reon receiver also, and I can confirm it doesn't do it either.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

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post #657 of 2470 Old 07-14-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Is going into the service menu of the 42pz85 and adjusting the RGB values easy? I'm currently using settings which are very close to Tom's settings but wondering if it could be even better. Would I have to reset my user settings to default and than make service menu adjustments or does it not matter?

The fact that you're asking this question makes the answer pretty obvious... no, it is NOT easy for someone who is not well-equipped. In fact, it is impossible to adjust RGB cuts/gains without a meter and software.

In this case "well equipped" means you MUST have a meter, you must have calibration software, and you must have studied the entire calibration process including what adjustments are available in your service menu (just cuts & gains in this case).

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post #658 of 2470 Old 07-14-2008, 01:27 AM
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So I have had my 50pz85u for over a month, and have been loving it. The picture quality is amazing, and keeps getting better and better.

Then yesterday, as I was nodding off while watching a baseball game. The TV made a large pop and shut off. The red light near the power button was flashing so I tried to turn it on. It wouldn't. So I then unplugged it for a few minutes and turned it back on. Now there is a black horizontal bar about 2 inches thick from top to bottom on my screen.

I have a three year(four adding the first year) service package so I am not worried. But I was wondering if anyone has had this happen before? Someone will be out thursday. Should I expect the service tech to fix it or a new TV?
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post #659 of 2470 Old 07-14-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xwinkx View Post

hey all, I made a post in the owners thread, but no answer as of yet. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5105

Short version is i got my set a week ago today, very happy. I only have about40-50 hours on it. I don't have the break in dvd, although I limit games and bars. My question/problem is that grays look greenish at times. Will a calibration help with this(?), or even time as the set is still a baby. I see the trails/fringing rarely, but not enough to bother me.
Thanks for any input

yes, it would definitely help

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #660 of 2470 Old 07-14-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerL View Post

So I have had my 50pz85u for over a month, and have been loving it. The picture quality is amazing, and keeps getting better and better.

Then yesterday, as I was nodding off while watching a baseball game. The TV made a large pop and shut off. The red light near the power button was flashing so I tried to turn it on. It wouldn't. So I then unplugged it for a few minutes and turned it back on. Now there is a black horizontal bar about 2 inches thick from top to bottom on my screen.

I have a three year(four adding the first year) service package so I am not worried. But I was wondering if anyone has had this happen before? Someone will be out thursday. Should I expect the service tech to fix it or a new TV?

At least you had it for a month, mine just shut off after a couple of hours of display. the red light blinked 6 times at a time. They replaced the tv so far so good.

How many times is your red light blinking

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