Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 33 - AVS Forum
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post #961 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 08:45 AM
 
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What sucks, and will prob end up killing plasma, is that LCD's have outsold plasma being more expensive (size per dollar) and worse blacks. They newest Samsung 950 is almost to a good black per the review, so there will be no stopping LCD in the next two years.

I hope to see OLED beat em both in color and black, but then there will be cons.


Calibration update:

Gregg Loewen will be here on Oct 1 at 10am. Hes also shipping the Ideal Lume backlight to me.
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post #962 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

What sucks, and will prob end up killing plasma, is that LCD's have outsold plasma being more expensive (size per dollar) and worse blacks. They newest Samsung 950 is almost to a good black per the review, so there will be no stopping LCD in the next two years.

I hope to see OLED beat em both in color and black, but then there will be cons.


Calibration update:

Gregg Loewen will be here on Oct 1 at 10am. Hes also shipping the Ideal Lume backlight to me.


To be honest it really brings into perspective the effect of marketing and the collective conscience. LCDs are what 90% of the public associate with HDTV. It's sad that people have become so blase about things. There was a time when most people (men especially) wouldn't think of not knowing everything about a purchase, wouldn't consider hiring a plumber, couldn't imagine not mowing thier own lawn.....I'm getting off subject.

As for Greggs visit, please try and take some good before and after pics with identical parameters.

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post #963 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 08:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

To be honest it really brings into perspective the effect of marketing and the collective conscience. LCDs are what 90% of the public associate with HDTV. It's sad that people have become so blase about things. There was a time when most people (men especially) wouldn't think of not knowing everything about a purchase, wouldn't consider hiring a plumber, couldn't imagine not mowing thier own lawn.....I'm getting off subject.

As for Greggs visit, please try and take some good before and after pics with identical parameters.


Yeah, Ive argued with guys about what gives HD a 3d pop. Many think its an LCD, and better yet a 120hz LCD, when in fact a lot of it is TRUE native CR, which LCD's still lack in.


As for pictures, Ive got a $400 Canon digital. What ISO and room lighting recommendations can you give for taking a good picture??
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post #964 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

As for pictures, Ive got a $400 Canon digital. What ISO and room lighting recommendations can you give for taking a good picture??

Without knowing the model, in that price range, I'd have to guess you have some manual controls. Try auto, if that doesn't satisfy shoot manual, probably 1/15th @f4.5 should do. Use a tripod!

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post #965 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Yeah, Ive argued with guys about what gives HD a 3d pop. Many think its an LCD, and better yet a 120hz LCD, when in fact a lot of it is TRUE native CR, which LCD's still lack in.


As for pictures, Ive got a $400 Canon digital. What ISO and room lighting recommendations can you give for taking a good picture??

LCD 120hz look so 'fake' 'artificial' (and kinda 'creepy looking' [in my just turned 12 yrs old daughter's words).

"There's no place like home." [Wizard of Oz - 1939]
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post #966 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by seascape View Post

LCD 120hz look so 'fake' 'artificial' (and kinda 'creepy looking' [in my just turned 12 yrs old daughter's words).

I agree, the do look a little strange.
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post #967 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Without knowing the model, in that price range, I'd have to guess you have some manual controls. Try auto, if that doesn't satisfy shoot manual, probably 1/15th @f4.5 should do. Use a tripod!

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022111canons3is.asp

Heres the model. I dont have a tripod, but can set something up so its steady.
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post #968 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022111canons3is.asp

Heres the model. I dont have a tripod, but can set something up so its steady.

That's a good one, it has manual if you need it. Yes, you'll need something steady. Also, shoot in timer mode so your hand doesn't move the camera when the shutter fires.

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post #969 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:44 AM
 
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That's a good one, it has manual if you need it. Yes, you'll need something steady. Also, shoot in timer mode so your hand doesn't move the camera when the shutter fires.

K. I forgot it had the manual, so used to auto.

Ill take the pics next weekend, take some good dark shots of Potter 5, then grab some Narnia and Transformers brighter pics.

It has 100, 200, 400 and 800 ISO, so Ill try a pic in all. If Im not mistaken, 800 can add grain. Hopefully the before and after PQ shots I get will be good enough to compare.
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post #970 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

K. I forgot it had the manual, so used to auto.

Ill take the pics next weekend, take some good dark shots of Potter 5, then grab some Narnia and Transformers brighter pics.

It has 100, 200, 400 and 800 ISO, so Ill try a pic in all. If Im not mistaken, 800 can add grain. Hopefully the before and after PQ shots I get will be good enough to compare.

Yes skip anything over 200 ISO.

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post #971 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:51 AM
 
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Yes skip anything over 200 ISO.

Thanks. One last question, do you take pics of the movies paused or in motion?
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post #972 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Thanks. One last question, do you take pics of the movies paused or in motion?

I do both. If I get a very slow scene (practically no motion) I try unpaused. I also shoot paused if I can get a good freeze. Tougher than you think.

Unpaused is better, but at slow shutter speeds, won't always work.

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post #973 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Thanks. One last question, do you take pics of the movies paused or in motion?

I'd suggest a good pause [make note of the time index, so you can use the same time index screen on the AFTER shots too].

I forget, the 80/85 have SD card slots like the 800/850 too right? If so, use some 1080P [1920x1080] jpeg's on 'JUST' mode.

Might even want to take some from each TV mode, cinema, vivid, etc.

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post #974 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 10:48 AM
 
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Good idea about the pictures.

Im thinking Ill just go pause on Blurays are 24p. Not too much fuzz, and sharpness isnt exactly what we will be looking at before and after anyways. Pausing and noting the time will allow me to take exact before and after pics.
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post #975 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 11:46 AM
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will you be posting your before and after service menu settings also ElwayLite?
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post #976 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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will you be posting your before and after service menu settings also ElwayLite?


My before service menu settings are already in the thread. Ill post the after to those who ask via pm after its done. Wont post them publicly.
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post #977 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 12:26 PM
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When I go to Calibrate this 42" PZ85 I am running, what settings do I use on the BD30 Blueray player?

In my mind, calibrating the TV is great. But calibration will be messed up later when a different player is hooked up.

For instance...

The BD30 has settings for Light and Dark Black level as well as Normal, Soft, Fine and custom which also holds contrast and brightness and gamma settings.

After the PZ85 is calibrated, any changes to those settings knock the calibration out.

Thoughts?

Leave it on the default LIGHT setting with Normal and never change it again?

C.

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post #978 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 12:58 PM
 
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Leave it on the default LIGHT setting with Normal and never change it again?

C.


Exactly.
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post #979 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Exactly.

Cool...

How far back do i have to go to see your last/current calibration settings...

And did you really mess with your service menu?

You used DVE right?

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post #980 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 01:09 PM
 
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Cool...

How far back do i have to go to see your last/current calibration settings...

And did you really mess with your service menu?

You used DVE right?

C.

I used the DVE blu ray, but wasnt happy with the color settings. It helps you get a good brightness.

I tinkered with it a LOT two weeks ago, but settles back about where I was originally with Tom's settings. I have not messed with the SM because I have a calibrator coming and that stuff should really be set for each environment, not really one size fits all.

Honestly, the settings just have to be ballpark for 1080p/24 blurays to look good, its the cable channels that mess around, and I think a lot of that is just quality on their end.

Cinema
Warm
Pic 65
Bright 53
Sharp 50
Color 40
Tint -2
Everything else is off
Black level light
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post #981 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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Played around a bit, this is ISO 100 1/15 4.5 , paused. Found a good spot, height for no movement and timer use.

Now I just need to get a bluray in at dark

(just edited for larger pic. then had to do it again, was too big )


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post #982 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 01:55 PM
 
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That should be a good size.
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post #983 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

What sucks, and will prob end up killing plasma, is that LCD's have outsold plasma being more expensive (size per dollar) and worse blacks. They newest Samsung 950 is almost to a good black per the review, so there will be no stopping LCD in the next two years.

I hope to see OLED beat em both in color and black, but then there will be cons.


Calibration update:

Gregg Loewen will be here on Oct 1 at 10am. Hes also shipping the Ideal Lume backlight to me.

I think the reason LCD has grown so much is because of the smaller screen sizes that also had lower prices for many people. They bought these smaller HDTVs that happen to be LCD because they were offered in that size. We are now seeing 32", 42", 46", 50", 58", and just now 65" plasmas, so I hope they start offering 37" plasmas again so that the selection can help the plasmas compete more with LCD with these choices.

It also doesn't help that the VERY bright lighting in stores plays into one of LCDs strengths, and one a Plasmas weaknesses. Most people do not understand if they ran that LCD at those settings in their dimly lit room at home, it will give them headaches and the blacks will not look black.

Plasma mfg need to do more to educate the public, and educate the stores about the HDTV displays they use and the light levels where they are displayed IMO.

Had to move my HT gear list to my profile so click below link to see it:

HT Gear list HERE
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post #984 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

My before service menu settings are already in the thread. Ill post the after to those who ask via pm after its done. Wont post them publicly.

Ok Elwaylite It will be interesting to know how much better the pic will look after calibration.

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I think the reason LCD has grown so much is because of the smaller screen sizes that also had lower prices for many people. They bought these smaller HDTVs that happen to be LCD because they were offered in that size. We are now seeing 32", 42", 46", 50", 58", and just now 65" plasmas, so I hope they start offering 37" plasmas again so that the selection can help the plasmas compete more with LCD with these choices.

It also doesn't help that the VERY bright lighting in stores plays into one of LCDs strengths, and one a Plasmas weaknesses. Most people do not understand if they ran that LCD at those settings in their dimly lit room at home, it will give them headaches and the blacks will not look black.

Plasma mfg need to do more to educate the public, and educate the stores about the HDTV displays they use and the light levels where they are displayed IMO.

I also think it's because of the look of an LCD TV I myself purchased a samsung 650 before returning it for an 85U because it had that 3d look and everything seemed to be popping out of the screen.. it looked cool but after I got it home everyday I would have headaches and I didn't realize the settings were maxed out.. After I dialed them down the picture looked really bad. My 85U has exceeded my expectations in every way possible from games to Blu ray. I will never go back to LCD ever again and even though Cinema mode is not that bright, at night it looks incredible and sometimes im in awe with my mouth wide open just watching regular tv that's something the lcd has never been able to do.. to me anyways
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post #985 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

That should be a good size.

That replacement pic looks MUCH better.

Had to move my HT gear list to my profile so click below link to see it:

HT Gear list HERE
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post #986 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 04:03 PM
 
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That replacement pic looks MUCH better.

Yeah first was one 1280, second one was full size (too big), third was A-OK.
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post #987 of 2470 Old 09-20-2008, 05:36 PM
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Looking forward to your results from your calibration Elway.
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post #988 of 2470 Old 09-21-2008, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
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And then they screwed the gamma in custom and standard, possibly in hopes to make them look brighter on showroom floors.

Why couldn't they have screwed up the gamma only for the default torch mode and at least keep custom like cinema since that would allow for independent settings for each input. They don't need to use custom in the store displays. Or they could have added a store mode enable item that we can turn off when we take the set home!
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post #989 of 2470 Old 09-21-2008, 05:21 AM
 
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Exactly.
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post #990 of 2470 Old 09-21-2008, 08:31 AM
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Or stick the damn things in a custom part of the store or home theater room with proper lighting.

There are Samsung 7 series LCD's custom mounted with custom signal fed with optimum signal material with special lighting all set up by Samsung at many big box retailers. A whole wall like that. They looked so incredible, I almost bought one over the panny. Then out in the middle are the Plasmas under crap lighting in configurations that force you to stand within 6 feet of them fed a COMPONENT based looped playback digital demo signal. But they were also $400 more and I knew from my research that Plasma was my best option for upconverted SD content. I just can't see ANY jaggies on edges and even on that custom content in the store with the Samsungs I saw it and it would have bothered the heck out of me.

I am sure I would be fine with a Sony KDL40W4100 or KDL40XBR4 but those are $500 more for 2" smaller and the Samsung LN40A750 but same thing there. $500 to $700 more for 2" smaller. In the end I am going to be just as thrilled.

But then the arguement becomes money again. If I was to spend $500+ more than I would be in a Kuro.

C.

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