Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 2470 Old 10-22-2008, 08:36 AM
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I have a question for the DVE guru's out there concearning Contrast and Brightness adjustments with the patterns on DVE with a 42" PZ85.

Brightness... There are 2 sets of instructions when using the PLUGE pattern (square in the middle and three bars to either side) where the outtermost is the blackest (blacker than black?). So first instruction is that you are supposed to lower brightness until those outtermost (blackest) bars dissapear. In the same narration you can alternately lower brightness and then raise it until the innermost bar (2% black) just starts to reapear and in the words of the narrator, 2% black bar (innermost) should "just" be visable and the next bar over 4% will be more noticable. As you can imagine, the resultant setting from the 2 of those is quite different. Instruction 1 brings about a setting of around 58 and the second instruction brings about a setting of 52. Definately different.

Contrast... This one uses a reverse greyscale pattern. This one is an even greater dilema. You raise contrast to 100 and then lower it until all the steps appear separated or with proper graduation from black to white. Ok. Fine. Lowering this only to 90 brings about the desired effect at least based on the narrators instructions for this pattern. Um ok. But that is, according to opinions here and calibrators in other threads, too high. 60 to 70 appears to be the common accepted range for the contrast. It is true that those also provide proper scaling from black to white. Just not as "brilliant" in terms of light blaring out of the whites. I am finding this one to be tricky. This also happens to me on THX Optimizer DVD's. Even 100 contrast and I can see the 8 distinct squares in their contrast pattern.

Stranger yet, if I simply were to leave the PZ85 in the unajusted Cinema mode of WARM, 100 contrast and 58 brightness, the set STILL passes those patterns. How can it pass all the patterns simply by being in the range of 60 to 100 contrast and 52 to 58 brightness and all variations I have tried in between? How does one then settle on some nailed down settings when they all appear to comply? Hard to know what settings on this PZ85 if you were never to read the threads around here and simply did what the narrator told you on the DVE disk.

I will be trying GetGray to see if it is more precise. Just waiting for the THX glasses. They should be here any day.

Until that, any feedback from those more experienced with this DVE product?

C.

Panasonic 42" Plasma TH42-PZ85U
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post #1172 of 2470 Old 10-22-2008, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

I have a question for the DVE guru's out there concearning Contrast and Brightness adjustments with the patterns on DVE with a 42" PZ85.

Brightness... There are 2 sets of instructions when using the PLUGE pattern (square in the middle and three bars to either side) where the outtermost is the blackest (blacker than black?). So first instruction is that you are supposed to lower brightness until those outtermost (blackest) bars dissapear. In the same narration you can alternately lower brightness and then raise it until the innermost bar (2% black) just starts to reapear and in the words of the narrator, 2% black bar (innermost) should "just" be visable and the next bar over 4% will be more noticable. As you can imagine, the resultant setting from the 2 of those is quite different. Instruction 1 brings about a setting of around 58 and the second instruction brings about a setting of 52. Definately different.

Contrast... This one uses a reverse greyscale pattern. This one is an even greater dilema. You raise contrast to 100 and then lower it until all the steps appear separated or with proper graduation from black to white. Ok. Fine. Lowering this only to 90 brings about the desired effect at least based on the narrators instructions for this pattern. Um ok. But that is, according to opinions here and calibrators in other threads, too high. 60 to 70 appears to be the common accepted range for the contrast. It is true that those also provide proper scaling from black to white. Just not as "brilliant" in terms of light blaring out of the whites. I am finding this one to be tricky. This also happens to me on THX Optimizer DVD's. Even 100 contrast and I can see the 8 distinct squares in their contrast pattern.

Stranger yet, if I simply were to leave the PZ85 in the unajusted Cinema mode of WARM, 100 contrast and 58 brightness, the set STILL passes those patterns. How can it pass all the patterns simply by being in the range of 60 to 100 contrast and 52 to 58 brightness and all variations I have tried in between? How does one then settle on some nailed down settings when they all appear to comply? Hard to know what settings on this PZ85 if you were never to read the threads around here and simply did what the narrator told you on the DVE disk.

I will be trying GetGray to see if it is more precise. Just waiting for the THX glasses. They should be here any day.

Until that, any feedback from those more experienced with this DVE product?

C.

I used the innermost bar and ended up with a 53-54, which I think was still a little too low. I THINK, if you cant see the inner bars you use the outer, meaning that sometimes wont show them. Since out tv's will show them, you should use the inner bars.

Ive never seen a contrast control work well, I just went with Toms recommendation of 65-70, which is plenty for me. The goal is 32-34 foot lamberts, but you need a tool to find this number.
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post #1173 of 2470 Old 10-22-2008, 08:47 PM
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I make it so that the middle bar is barely seen on the PLUGE pattern/screen. This is what the instructions state.

Had to move my HT gear list to my profile so click below link to see it:


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post #1174 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 04:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post

I make it so that the middle bar is barely seen on the PLUGE pattern/screen. This is what the instructions state.

Middle bar is barely seen, inner bar is not seen. I think thats what i did too.

Honestly, that setting was crushing my blacks a little though. I dunno if thats because my Bright was actually too low or just how the Grayscale was off.
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post #1175 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 09:32 AM
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Here's the full info for people wanting to order the PZ850 service manual:

Price: $46.81
Order by phone: 1-800-833-9626

Currently on backorder (preorder), order now and it will ship as soon as it's available, estimate is around 10/31/2008 - 11/04/2008.
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post #1176 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 11:04 AM
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Hey all.

So this may seem a little stupid, but there is SOO MUCH in this topic. I am picking up my 42PZ80u today and i...don't know what to do first.

I was thinking about calibrating right out the box, but now I think I read not to do that? to just leave it on standard for ~150hrs?

and what is this thing about the calibration disc? I dont have an HD DVD or Blu Ray player...so what should I calibrate to? I was just gonna try out some of the calibrations here and call it a day.

this is MY first hdtv purchase (other ones I have weren't roommates or so, so not my own property), so I don't want to mess this up...
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post #1177 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 11:10 AM
 
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Leave the Pic and Bright around 50 in Cinema mode for the first 100 hours.

Best disc right now is the DVE bluray, but they have older versions for dvd (DVE and Avia). These help setting color and brightness.
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post #1178 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt21 View Post

Hey all.

So this may seem a little stupid, but there is SOO MUCH in this topic. I am picking up my 42PZ80u today and i...don't know what to do first.

I was thinking about calibrating right out the box, but now I think I read not to do that? to just leave it on standard for ~150hrs?

and what is this thing about the calibration disc? I dont have an HD DVD or Blu Ray player...so what should I calibrate to? I was just gonna try out some of the calibrations here and call it a day.

this is MY first hdtv purchase (other ones I have weren't roommates or so, so not my own property), so I don't want to mess this up...

Read the Break-in FAQ.....................please.

Fr. John

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post #1179 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Leave the Pic and Bright around 50 in Cinema mode for the first 100 hours.

Best disc right now is the DVE bluray, but they have older versions for dvd (DVE and Avia). These help setting color and brightness.

How come no love for GetGray?

C.

Panasonic 42" Plasma TH42-PZ85U
Panasonic Blueray Player DMP-BD35
Sony 5.1 Home Theater DAV-HDX475 (wish it was Panasonic but it's ok)
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post #1180 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

How come no love for GetGray?

C.

Havent used it, so I cant recommend it
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post #1181 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 02:44 PM
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Read the Break-in FAQ.....................please.

i finally found it. took me a while. there is a lot of stuff in these topics...is everything posted somewhere else for easy access? i just bookmarked the pages.
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post #1182 of 2470 Old 10-23-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt21 View Post

i finally found it. took me a while. there is a lot of stuff in these topics...is everything posted somewhere else for easy access? i just bookmarked the pages.

Well the Break-in FAQ should have been really easy, the link is posted in the first post of both the PZ80/PZ85 owners thread and the Master Burn-in/ Break-in thread. It's also in my signature

There are some dedicated threads for other minutiae also, you just have to look for them.

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post #1183 of 2470 Old 10-24-2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

How come no love for GetGray?

I paid to download the GetGray calibration DVD ISO file a few months back and it worked well to calibrate my 46PZ80U. It had some great grayscale patterns that were better than the ones on the old AVIA DVD I already had for setting picture/contrast and brightness. Color and tint patterns were similar and worked OK too, luckily I had the blue filter for that in my AVIA set.
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post #1184 of 2470 Old 10-24-2008, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

I paid to download the GetGray calibration DVD ISO file a few months back and it worked well to calibrate my 46PZ80U. It had some great grayscale patterns that were better than the ones on the old AVIA DVD I already had for setting picture/contrast and brightness. Color and tint patterns were similar and worked OK too, luckily I had the blue filter for that in my AVIA set.

Thanks for the reminder! I have to order it right now so I can dload it ASAP! I have a few days off comming up so I better hustle.

I am having fun with calibration for some strange reason. I have THX glasses about to arrive. I can then use THX optimizer, DVE HD Basics which I already own and only got a green filter with and now GetGray.

I am thinking I will write up a comparison between the results the 3 get. I have confirmed that the THX glasses are the correct blue too. They are apparently bang on for the blue channel.

C.

Panasonic 42" Plasma TH42-PZ85U
Panasonic Blueray Player DMP-BD35
Sony 5.1 Home Theater DAV-HDX475 (wish it was Panasonic but it's ok)
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post #1185 of 2470 Old 10-25-2008, 07:15 PM
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Elway...I remember reading your post in this thread about your backlight you're using but cannot seem to find it again! Could you please repost the link and cost of the one you got again? Thanks for the help.

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post #1186 of 2470 Old 10-25-2008, 08:58 PM
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Elway...I remember reading your post in this thread about your backlight you're using but cannot seem to find it again! Could you please repost the link and cost of the one you got again? Thanks for the help.

Here you go http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s#post14414410

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post #1187 of 2470 Old 10-26-2008, 05:12 AM
 
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Yepp, thats it!
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post #1188 of 2470 Old 10-26-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

I paid to download the GetGray calibration DVD ISO file a few months back and it worked well to calibrate my 46PZ80U. It had some great grayscale patterns that were better than the ones on the old AVIA DVD I already had for setting picture/contrast and brightness. Color and tint patterns were similar and worked OK too, luckily I had the blue filter for that in my AVIA set.

And as far as DVE HD Basics go, I paid full pop for it and it did nto come with a blue filter and I found the color calibration part of the "calibrate my TV" area a little thin in it's description. I am actually kind of dissapointed with it. The Brightness and Contrast section was really good and easy to follow and in fact the THX Optimizer on newer THX DVD titles arrives at exactly the same levels so I could have just done that. I have ordered the Blue filter glasses from THX and they should be here shortly. Whats good about that is that it will work with not only the COLOR/TINT patterns on the THX disks but also GetGray HIGHLY recommends them as they are the official Blue Filters.

I have GetGray comming. In the end, the DVE HD Basics will become kind of useless beyond maybe serving as a comparison check against THX and GetGray.

Thing that ticked me off the most about DVE was that the website for DVE has NO way of contacting them for me to ask for the filters that were SUPPOSED to come. Not even by email. I don't trust them anymore. I got a GREEN filter.

GetGray seems to look to be a good one and Hometheatermag or whoever even liked the THX Optimizer for it's ease of use and level of accuracy.

http://hometheatermag.com/advicefromtheexperts/407cali/

C.

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post #1189 of 2470 Old 10-26-2008, 06:24 PM
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Folks,
I'd like some calibration input for my Panasonic 45pz85u. My current settings are below. I have had my TV for a few months and have been running my TV at settings similar to the one below for some time. Would it still be worth it to have my set professionally calibrated? If I was going to get it calibrated from someone like LionAv, what would they do beyond me messing with the settings in the user interface? Could they make my blacks more black? Thanks for the input.

Mode: Cinema
Picture: 55
Brightness: 50
Color: 55
Tint: -2
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm
Everything else off
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post #1190 of 2470 Old 10-26-2008, 06:48 PM
 
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More accurate color, more details, proper black setting.

I did not notive a black improvement per say, but I get more shadow detail, as before I lost some detail in the shadows. I also get more color graduation and don't have the slightly red faces anymore.

My calibrator reset cinema mode to default, then made pretty much all the adjustments in the service menu. This is nice, because there is not any way for me to mess his settings up.
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post #1191 of 2470 Old 10-26-2008, 07:33 PM
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Thanks for the info ElwayLite. What is so special about the service menu options? Are they more advanced than your standard user interface?
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post #1192 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 04:25 AM
 
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Well, for one you can get more color control. Only problem is you have to know what the functions do, and you need a machine to tell you when you get it set right in the SM.

My calibrator has a very expensive machine that focused on 1" of the screen, he aimed it at a color and used this to set the service menu properly.
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post #1193 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 05:23 AM
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Definitely not something I'm going to mess with. I'll think about getting LionAV to do my calibration. It is just a hard decision because I want to make sure I'm not spending $400+ for minimal changes. Thanks for the input.
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post #1194 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 05:27 AM
 
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It def improves the tv's picture, and being this is a planned keeper for 3-5 years, it was money well spent.

LionAv might not be the best group in the nation, but most on here will tell ya that they do a excellent job, and I was lucky enough to get Gregg.

My cost was $440 ($400 for the tv and $40 for travel)

If you are happy with the user settings here, then I'd say dont worry about it. If you are happy with the settings but feel you you'd like to get more outta the tv (like I did), then do it.
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post #1195 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 06:33 AM
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My current settings are nice and I can deal with them, I just hate the fact that dark scenes sometimes look dark gray and the color of the screen itself when it turns on. The screen itself, powered off isn't black, but the screen gets grayish when powering on. I'm guessing a light illuminates the actual screen, resulting in a slight grayish color. Maybe I'm obessing over it for some reason, but I notice that the border on the TV is a shiny black and the letterboxing surely does not match that blackness. One of those things that is a little distracting when watching a letterboxed movie I'm just acting crazy...
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post #1196 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 06:37 AM
 
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Very few tv's are going to match the black of the bezel, if they even will. While watching 1080p movies and OTA HD proramming like CSI, I see very good blacks, I think you over obsessing about the screen and not focusing on the blacks of the video.

If you are unhappy with this tv (which is very good), youre only option is a $5-6k Kuro.

Out of curiousity, what was your previous TV?

Ive owned a RPLCD and seen sub $2500k lcd's, talk about grey blacks and no depth or 3d effect.
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post #1197 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 07:07 AM
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My previous TV was a Toshiba 51HC85. I went with the 46pz85u. Realistically I should have went with the 50 inch and spent an extra few hundred dollars but whatever. Why I am probably obsessing over this is because my father in laws Pioneer Elite 720p set has black letterbox bars that are dark as can be. The screen itself is almost as black of the bezel. Granted it is an older elite, but an elite nontheless. I think I'm going to peek into the service menu to take a look at the total hours my set has.
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post #1198 of 2470 Old 10-27-2008, 07:12 AM
 
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Its still an elite. Youre comparing apples to oranges.

For the price, and 800u/85u is a great tv. If price was not an option, then its Kuro Pro all the way.
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post #1199 of 2470 Old 10-28-2008, 04:02 AM
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it is weird...when you watch trailers and the screen goes completely black then back to a clip and then back to a black screen etc....the black screen on my panny is a glowing black...more dark grey like you are saying but on my samsung hl-5687w dlp the screen goes completely black like its not even on...but if im watching a full screen hd movie the panny has better on screen blacks and better shadow detail..........so i really dont understand why the letterbox bars and the all black scenes are dark grey or a glowing black and not a black like my samsung?
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post #1200 of 2470 Old 10-28-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushiro View Post

it is weird...when you watch trailers and the screen goes completely black then back to a clip and then back to a black screen etc....the black screen on my panny is a glowing black...more dark grey like you are saying but on my samsung hl-5687w dlp the screen goes completely black like its not even on...but if im watching a full screen hd movie the panny has better on screen blacks and better shadow detail..........so i really dont understand why the letterbox bars and the all black scenes are dark grey or a glowing black and not a black like my samsung?

Part of it I think is the gloss black bezel? Do the other TV's you're comparing to have matte black or grey/silver bezels? It makes a big difference on how the darkness is perceived. It's how your eye and brain work. I personally think gloss black bezels look nice, but are a stupid idea for this very reason. They should all be dark grey and matte, IMO.
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