Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 2470 Old 11-27-2008, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

HD or SD is set by the TV and you should not change it. HD Color Matrix is when you play a blueray or upressed DVD from a good player. SD is stuff coming across the Coax or RCA Video In.

Can't adjust ZOOM unless you... well... ZOOM.

Size 1 or 2 is not effective over my regular TV signal via COAX content as far as I can tell and is why it is grayed out? My guess. HD cable box will be different as the connection is HDMI.

Analogue inputs default to DARK. At least as far as my observations of that setting with my PZ85. It is greyed out but changes with source. Start a DVD or BD disk in my BD player over HDMI? It switches to LIGHT by default but I can change it to Dark. Dark is a bad setting on my setup. Alot of detail in Dark scenes is crushed out or blended into obilvion.



When you finally feed the TV a high def signal (HDMI or COMPONENT(RGB RCA's)), you have access to LIGHT or DARK setting. 99% of the time you leave it at LIGHT from everything I have read and every calibration report I have seen. ZOOM adjust only works with ZOOM MODE still. Matrix will say HD as it should. Basically I think that is there only to tell you what color mode (SD or HD) the TV is interpreting.

In every case, X.V. Color is not something you will see will make a difference. Turn it on if you want. Well it will be called AUTO and if one day a BD disk has actual XV Color encoded on it and you player can decode VX Color space, your TV will be set to decode it to your display output. At least that is what I understand of it. This will likely come in handy should you ever buy a Camcorder that burns to blueray and shoots and stores in XV Color mode. Then you can play back your family videos in the enhanced colorspace.

Either way. Guess what. Red is Red. Green is Green. Blue is Blue. Black is black white is white. There will be no new versions of these colors with or without XV Color. There are no BD movies with XV Color encoded on the disk to the best of my knowledge but I am regurgitating info from other places. I have no personal knowledge of it myself.

That is my understanding of that anyway.

C.

Wow, thank you so much for the detailed response cvearl. I guess all I can do now is enjoy the TV as best I can until HD Cable arrives. Still, no complaints with the picture quality with only SD. If the HD Cable is anything like the Blu-Ray movies I've watched so far, I'm definitely in for a treat.
Thanks again for your help.....much appreciated.

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post #1352 of 2470 Old 11-27-2008, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I generally leave the image enhancement choices on the Panasonic plasmas off because they typically do more harm than good. I had always followed this rule with respect to the color management option, but I had frankly never noticed that it did much of anything.

So I finally decided to sit down and actually spend some time measuring the "feature" to see what it did. I looked at the color performance from every perspective I could think of.

As I suspected, the color management feature does very little. All I was able to verify is that it moves the hue of cyan towards blue, making the image a little less accurate.

The display is in Cinema mode and has had the grayscale calibrated, but is otherwise close to out-of-the-box performance.

Gray Scale



There is a small difference at the low end, but this could just as easily be a measurement anomaly.

ΔE (CIE94) Performance



There is a difference in cyan only.

CIE Chromaticity



Here you can see the cyan error. It is shifted towards blue. All other colors look essentially the same.

LSH Error





This is the most detailed break-out of the color performance. The data confirms what was earlier reported. The only significant difference is in the hue of cyan.

Color Decoding



No change here.

Sorry for digging this old one out of the earlier part of the thread but this is something I was asking myself and was pining over today and thank goodness it's right here in the thread!

Thanks Tom.

Panasonic 42" Plasma TH42-PZ85U
Panasonic Blueray Player DMP-BD35
Sony 5.1 Home Theater DAV-HDX475 (wish it was Panasonic but it's ok)
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post #1353 of 2470 Old 11-29-2008, 02:27 PM
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^^^^^
TomHuffman, what did you adjust to get the primaries and secondaries so close. My 50PZ80 has the green far higher on the chromacity chart, and because the green is so far off, the yellow and cyan are off also.



thanks in advance
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post #1354 of 2470 Old 11-29-2008, 06:23 PM
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In another thread I have posted about my new bundle of joy, Costco's 46" version of the PZ80.

Today it was down to business, tuning it up. I know I gotta get through the 100 hrs of so before everything can be fine tuned, but I have a few questions about initial settings and impressions.

I have read a huge chunk of this thread, and have printed out and wrote down tons of useful info. This place is a gold mine!

I tried out quite a few of the recommended settings, careful not to push it to much. The cinema setting is the clear winner, but I don't see what so many of you like about the 'warm' setting. Everything has a yellow tint to it....I am referring to over the air HD here...I haven't used a 1080p source / movie yet.

I'm liking 'Normal' right now, but my eyes are definitely not trained as well as a lot of yours. Do you guys like warm for everything? Or just 1080p movies? Do you switch to Normal and change other settings for TV viewing?

So much to learn!
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post #1355 of 2470 Old 11-29-2008, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theTERD View Post

In another thread I have posted about my new bundle of joy, Costco's 46" version of the PZ80.

Today it was down to business, tuning it up. I know I gotta get through the 100 hrs of so before everything can be fine tuned, but I have a few questions about initial settings and impressions.

I have read a huge chunk of this thread, and have printed out and wrote down tons of useful info. This place is a gold mine!

I tried out quite a few of the recommended settings, careful not to push it to much. The cinema setting is the clear winner, but I don't see what so many of you like about the 'warm' setting. Everything has a yellow tint to it....I am referring to over the air HD here...I haven't used a 1080p source / movie yet.

I'm liking 'Normal' right now, but my eyes are definitely not trained as well as a lot of yours. Do you guys like warm for everything? Or just 1080p movies? Do you switch to Normal and change other settings for TV viewing?

So much to learn!

I have a 46PZ80U for the past few months and also prefer "Normal" color temp. If it were professionaly calibrated it would make the "warm" setting not too orangish tint I believe. The ideal setting is probably between normal and warm with factory settings.
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post #1356 of 2470 Old 11-29-2008, 10:41 PM
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my 50pz80 was the same until I fixed the grayscale, now warm is correct, and normal is too blue or cool.
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post #1357 of 2470 Old 11-30-2008, 06:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

I have a 46PZ80U for the past few months and also prefer "Normal" color temp. If it were professionaly calibrated it would make the "warm" setting not too orangish tint I believe. The ideal setting is probably between normal and warm with factory settings.

Tom found that Warm was very close to ideal, and my calibrator did also. I know people think it looks too orange, but I think that it because many sets Warm setting is too blue.

If you use Normal, youre adding blue. Really though, Normal vs Warm is personal preference, just dont use cool.
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post #1358 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

I have a 46PZ80U for the past few months and also prefer "Normal" color temp. If it were professionaly calibrated it would make the "warm" setting not too orangish tint I believe. The ideal setting is probably between normal and warm with factory settings.


"my 50pz80 was the same until I fixed the grayscale, now warm is correct, and normal is too blue or cool."

"If you use Normal, youre adding blue. Really though, Normal vs Warm is personal preference, just dont use cool."



Thanks - all these statements make sense. Ideal would be somewhere between the warm and the cool, and it looks like a pro calibration is the only way to get the gray scale spot on. I'll stick with normal for now.

My brother brought over his Avia calibration disc and we spent some time with that last night. The numbers were a little wacky, but the results were were more pleasing than the #'s would indicate. Previously I had my #'s set close to many in this thread:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +60
Bright +52
Color +38
Tint -2
Sharp +50

Then, with 2 sets of eyes working the Avia, we came up with this:

Avia results:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +42
Bright +54
Color +57
Tint -5
Sharp +28

Obviously the big difference is the low Picture # and the higher Color #. The resulting image was a darker, but very saturated and creamy image. Better than the #'s would indicate. Bright colors really popped, but whites were really nice and didn't bloom. Different.

I went back to my original settings and the image looked more a little more natural, but kinda cold, and the vibrancy wasn't there. It was a little under cooked if you will.

So, I let my eyes take over and came up with a happy medium:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +56
Bright +53
Color +44
Tint -3
Sharp +32

Before the Avia, and after reading so much on here, I think I was afraid to let too much red into the picture for fear of accentuating the natural bias. The Avia showed that the reds are the life of the party!

I'm gonna stick with a happy medium and now sit back and enjoy the set!
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post #1359 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 08:45 AM
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I have a 50" panny 80u model i just got it about two weeks ago i have about 24 hours on it i was watching transformers in bluray and doring the darkers seans the picture gets fuzzy or you could call it grainy it looks bad and then yesterday when i was watching foot ball game black blooks showed up at the top of the screen for a short period then went away the blocks were kind of distorted and in the moddle top of the screen i called the pan tec they are coming out did anyone have a sim problem and if so what did you do to fix it please help
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post #1360 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theTERD View Post

"my 50pz80 was the same until I fixed the grayscale, now warm is correct, and normal is too blue or cool."

"If you use Normal, youre adding blue. Really though, Normal vs Warm is personal preference, just dont use cool."



Thanks - all these statements make sense. Ideal would be somewhere between the warm and the cool, and it looks like a pro calibration is the only way to get the gray scale spot on. I'll stick with normal for now.

My brother brought over his Avia calibration disc and we spent some time with that last night. The numbers were a little wacky, but the results were were more pleasing than the #'s would indicate. Previously I had my #'s set close to many in this thread:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +60
Bright +52
Color +38
Tint -2
Sharp +50

Then, with 2 sets of eyes working the Avia, we came up with this:

Avia results:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +42
Bright +54
Color +57
Tint -5
Sharp +28

Obviously the big difference is the low Picture # and the higher Color #. The resulting image was a darker, but very saturated and creamy image. Better than the #'s would indicate. Bright colors really popped, but whites were really nice and didn't bloom. Different.

I went back to my original settings and the image looked more a little more natural, but kinda cold, and the vibrancy wasn't there. It was a little under cooked if you will.

So, I let my eyes take over and came up with a happy medium:

Cinema
Normal
Pic +56
Bright +53
Color +44
Tint -3
Sharp +32

Before the Avia, and after reading so much on here, I think I was afraid to let too much red into the picture for fear of accentuating the natural bias. The Avia showed that the reds are the life of the party!

I'm gonna stick with a happy medium and now sit back and enjoy the set!

What model are these settings for?
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post #1361 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

my 50pz80 was the same until I fixed the grayscale, now warm is correct, and normal is too blue or cool.

Ditto. Even warm is a bit too cool. The real problem is greyscale or white balance, not color temperature.

The reason many people prefer "normal" settting is because it compensates for the red push.

You don't need a "pro calibration". Just reduce R-DRV and B-DRV in the service menu. I also increased G-DRV as high as it would go. I did not touch the CUTs. That should hold you over until you're ready to pay a pro.

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post #1362 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
Ditto. Even warm is a bit too cool. The real problem is greyscale or white balance, not color temperature.

The reason many people prefer "normal" settting is because it compensates for the red push.

You don't need a "pro calibration". Just reduce R-DRV and B-DRV in the service menu. I also increased G-DRV as high as it would go. I did not touch the CUTs. That should hold you over until you're ready to pay a pro.
I wouldn't just randomly increase and decrease settings.

I was lucky enough to get my hands on an EyeOne Pro and calibrated my 42PZ80U. My panel was pretty good out of the box (Before: 8 out of 10 IRE with delta's < 10; After: 10 out of 10 IRE with delta's <10 with 6 of those having delta's < 3).

I would have bet money I needed to decrease my Red Cut and Drives due to the red I was seeing in skin tones and I would have been dead wrong.

Attached are my ColorHCFR cal files, take a look for yourself.

You'll need ColorHFCR to view them: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/HCFR_Setup_v2_0_1.exe

My final User Menu Settings are:

Mode: Cinema
Picture: 58
Brightness: 48
Color: 36
Tint: 0
Temp: Warm
Black Level: Light
Size: 1
Everything Else: OFF

UPDATED: Added Service Menu Before & After Settings

Service Menu Before
R-C = 80
G-C = 80
B-C = 80
R-D = D5
G-D = FC
B-D = 9D

Service Menu After
R-C = 81
G-C = 80
B-C = 82
R-D = E1
G-D = FC
B-D = 9B

I would also appreciate any feedback. This was my first calibration and I think I did an OK job, however, if I missed something I would like to know about it.

 

Panasonic TH42PZ80U Before & After.zip 14.748046875k . file
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post #1363 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 01:49 PM
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I have a few questions with regards to calibration (wrt Panasonic TH42PZ80U).

When I performed my calibration it seems that the contrast measurement /calculation performed by ColorHCFR was all over the place (e.g. 386:1, then 640:1, then back down & then back up).

Is this normal?

Why can't I get an initial Contrast measurement/calculation (after measuring the greyscale of course)?

Why does calibrating my greyscale make my gamma worse? From 2.19 to 2.24.

I didn't touch my Sub-Bright, Color, Tint Settings in my Service Menu. Could these have helped with a better gamma, a higher contrast measurement, and with better primaries and secondaries?

Any help will be appreciated!!!
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post #1364 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS23 View Post

I have a few questions with regards to calibration (wrt Panasonic TH42PZ80U).

When I performed my calibration it seems that the contrast measurement /calculation performed by ColorHCFR was all over the place (e.g. 386:1, then 640:1, then back down & then back up).

Is this normal?

Why can't I get an initial Contrast measurement/calculation (after measuring the greyscale of course)?

Why does calibrating my greyscale make my gamma worse? From 2.19 to 2.24.

I didn't touch my Sub-Bright, Color, Tint Settings in my Service Menu. Could these have helped with a better gamma, a higher contrast measurement, and with better primaries and secondaries?

Any help will be appreciated!!!

did you calibrate your colorimeter? did you set it on the set for 30 minutes before using it, so it can normalize its temperature with the set? What kind of meter did you use? What settings did you use in HCFR? in a nutshell, we'll need more info.

as for the gamma, there is not a lot of difference in the range you posted.
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post #1365 of 2470 Old 12-01-2008, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

did you calibrate your colorimeter? did you set it on the set for 30 minutes before using it, so it can normalize its temperature with the set? What kind of meter did you use? What settings did you use in HCFR? in a nutshell, we'll need more info.

as for the gamma, there is not a lot of difference in the range you posted.

I placed my EyeOne Pro on the TV with the TV ON, waited for 30 minutes, and THEN calibrated the meter.

I used the following guide: GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES and followed all of the settings explained in the guide.

All of my measurements seemed to be pretty consistent (I basically measured my greyscale twice each time to make sure there was little variation). That's why I don't understand why the Contrast number was all over the place.
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post #1366 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS23 View Post

I wouldn't just randomly increase and decrease settings.

Service Menu Before
R-C = 80
G-C = 80
B-C = 80
R-D = D5
G-D = FC
B-D = 9D

Service Menu After
R-C = 81
G-C = 80
B-C = 82
R-D = E1
G-D = FC
B-D = 9B

I would also appreciate any feedback. This was my first calibration and I think I did an OK job, however, if I missed something I would like to know about it.

Actually your "after" values are close to mine. It also looks like yours was closer out of the box than mine:

R-DRV: E9 (was ED) -- came down a bit
G-DRV: FF (was FC) -- nothing really
B-DRV: 89 (was A5) -- way too high!

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post #1367 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 06:15 AM
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PLEASE HELP ME

I have a 50" panny 80u model i just got it about two weeks ago i have about 24 hours on it i was watching transformers in bluray and doring the darkers seans the picture gets fuzzy or you could call it grainy it looks bad and then yesterday when i was watching foot ball game black blooks showed up at the top of the screen for a short period then went away the blocks were kind of distorted and in the moddle top of the screen i called the pan tec they are coming out did anyone have a sim problem and if so what did you do to fix it please help
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post #1368 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 06:54 AM
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How do you know there is anything wrong with the TV? That could easily be distortions in the source material. Live HDTV broadcasts often have pixelization or blocks where part of the signal has dropped out.

Movies can often have grain or "noise" depending on the film stock used, especially in dark scenes. An improperly calibrated set (eg: excessive sharpness, brightness or contrast) can exaggerate these artifacts or even introduce new artifacts.

What are your picture settings? I recommend putting it in Cinema mode and reducing contrast (picture).

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post #1369 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 09:55 AM
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thanks for your help i dont know were to start to make my picture better i have switch to cinama mode and my settings are what someone here posted for the break in period do you think i need to go into the service settings that some have talked about here and if so how do you get to those settings or should i have a pro come out and calibrate it let me know because i dont like what i see thats for sure
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post #1370 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 11:45 AM
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Out of curiosity did anyone here try using the test color screens in the service menu for their "burn-in" period?

IIRC it displays Red, Green, Blue, White, & Black and repeats. There is also a Temp & Timer displayed. I didn't check to see if the Temp & Timer move around the screen or if they are static. They appeared to be static which, obviously, would negate using it for the burn-in, although I only let it cycle twice so I'm not really sure.
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I forgot to mention that I did find one thing that calibration didn't help.

ESPN's Chris Berman's face!

I'm not trying to be mean but after I calibrated my TV I put on ESPNHD and the first thing I see is Chris Berman's face....ugh! I don't know if used a fake tanner that went wrong or if the makeup artist was on crack that day but, man, it definitely made me think I screwed up.

Once I saw that everyone else looked normal I relaxed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS23 View Post

I forgot to mention that I did find one thing that calibration didn't help.

ESPN's Chris Berman's face!

I'm not trying to be mean but after I calibrated my TV I put on ESPNHD and the first thing I see is Chris Berman's face....ugh! I don't know if used a fake tanner that went wrong or if the makeup artist was on crack that day but, man, it definitely made me think I screwed up.

Once I saw that everyone else looked normal I relaxed

LOL...my laugh for the day! THANKS!

"Reciprocity is the wellspring of friendship..."
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post #1373 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS23 View Post

I forgot to mention that I did find one thing that calibration didn't help.

ESPN's Chris Berman's face!

I'm not trying to be mean but after I calibrated my TV I put on ESPNHD and the first thing I see is Chris Berman's face....ugh! I don't know if used a fake tanner that went wrong or if the makeup artist was on crack that day but, man, it definitely made me think I screwed up.

Once I saw that everyone else looked normal I relaxed

I find that all the flesh colors on ESPN HD look really bad. I wish they'd calibrate thier cameras or something.

Xbox Live = Retaliation908
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post #1374 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merickrc View Post

thanks for your help i dont know were to start to make my picture better i have switch to cinama mode and my settings are what someone here posted for the break in period do you think i need to go into the service settings that some have talked about here and if so how do you get to those settings or should i have a pro come out and calibrate it let me know because i dont like what i see thats for sure

No need to go into the service menu at this time. Cinema mode + break in settings posted here should deliver a wonderful smooth image, assuming the source is clean and not intentionally grainy or some upconverted crap. Failing that something is wrong with your equipment.

Oh how close are you viewing this 50" set from? If your face is like 2' from the panel don't expect miracles.

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post #1375 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS23 View Post

My final User Menu Settings are:

Mode: Cinema
Picture: 58
Brightness: 48
Color: 36
Tint: 0
Temp: Warm
Black Level: Light
Size: 1
Everything Else: OFF

I'm not alone then! I was wondering whether I simply wasn't seeing what others were seeing. My settings are very similar to yours; I've seen others' settings with Picture in the 70+ range and Brightness higher too, but they just don't look "right" on my set.
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post #1376 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 05:24 PM
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Im using the settings on the first page and it looks really good. After trying some different service menu settings posted in here I concluded that the pic was not good and so I now understand that everyone's set is a little different. With the service menu back to original I popped in the AVIA disk and can get it so that I don't push red but green and blue are and that's with the settings on the first page.
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post #1377 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post

I'm not alone then! I was wondering whether I simply wasn't seeing what others were seeing. My settings are very similar to yours; I've seen others' settings with Picture in the 70+ range and Brightness higher too, but they just don't look "right" on my set.

My settings were derived from performing a greyscale calibration. Like Tom Huffman said (either in this thread or the owner's thread) once you go above the low 60s for picture there is very little change in the ft/L. I set mine to a hair under 34f/L (I just chose this number). I read that the ideal range is 30-40ft/L. However, IIRC I couldn't really get any higher than 36.5ft/L (which was around 63-64 for picture) so I figured I'd give myself a little headroom.
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post #1378 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 08:14 PM
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Have any of you here heard of the 50" TH-50PE8U model? Best Buy is the only place it is listed on the internet. I am happy with my 42pz85u but my sister is looking for a little bigger set for a lower price.

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post #1379 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 08:33 PM
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avfile i am sittig about 8 feet away from the set so it should be clear right
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post #1380 of 2470 Old 12-02-2008, 09:18 PM
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that is a cheaper ,only BF model. its not a regular model, it has less features.
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