Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 48 - AVS Forum
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post #1411 of 2470 Old 12-09-2008, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Your picture must be much cooler than mine. I just realized you are using Normal color temp while my numbers were with Warm.

By the way you can take Cinema mode and reset everything to defaults in the user menu, then perform all the calibrations in the service menu. That way you don't have to worry about someone messing with your settings.

Rather than pay an ISF I'm going to buy this kit and DIY:

http://www.curtpalme.com/EyeOneDisplay2.shtm

There are forums there if you want to talk about it.

Just did that myself! Kind of fun. Takes practice too. Still experiementing.

C.

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post #1412 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Rather than pay an ISF I'm going to buy this kit and DIY:

http://www.curtpalme.com/EyeOneDisplay2.shtm

There are forums there if you want to talk about it.

That looks like an interesting alternative, but I think if I was gonna spend ~$300 for that I'd just spend a little more and let the professional do it.

Let us know how yours turns out though.

Xbox Live = Retaliation908
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post #1413 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Your picture must be much cooler than mine. I just realized you are using Normal color temp while my numbers were with Warm.

It's actually quite warm still. If i switch between warm and normal (with my above settings) the difference is minimal. Might put the "Normal" values back to their defaults and apply those settings to "Warm." I'm going to turn down my green drive a few steps, as there seems to be a slight green tint to some faces.
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post #1414 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 10:29 AM
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We just bought the TH50PZ85 (no "U" in Canada). I have owned a 43" Pioneer for the past four years as well. The Pioneer is an amazing plasma and it seems the Panny doesn't quite stack up - and that's ok given the price break point and the known reputation of Pioneer to be in a class of their own for plasmas. My question is why I seem to see so much more artifacting and noise in the Panny? This is especially predominant on scenes with a lot of contiguous sky or ocean, for example. Will this diminish with break in? Are there settings that will help? Is it a known issue with this model (as CNET seems to indicate)? Any advice greatly appreciated. I want to keep and like the set, and it is clear from the vast majority of user reviews that it should be an outstanding plasma. Thanks.
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post #1415 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrain View Post

My question is why I seem to see so much more artifacting and noise in the Panny? This is especially predominant on scenes with a lot of contiguous sky or ocean, for example. Will this diminish with break in? Are there settings that will help?

Pages and pages of posts here with settings that will help.

In short, Cinema mode, reduce Picture to around 60 and enjoy. I have seen this artifacting, sometimes called clay face, when using the other modes that attempt to drive too much contrast.

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post #1416 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 05:40 PM
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Thanks AVFile. I have followed that advice (implementing Tom's numbers with Cinema mode) and it seems to have improved the PQ. I will continue to tinker, perhaps with the reality in mind that it will likely never match the Pioneer.
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post #1417 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrain View Post

Thanks AVFile. I have followed that advice (implementing Tom's numbers with Cinema mode) and it seems to have improved the PQ. I will continue to tinker, perhaps with the reality in mind that it will likely never match the Pioneer.

I could easily be wrong but I find it highly unlikely the 4 year old Pio can match the brand new Panny.

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post #1418 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrain View Post

We just bought the TH50PZ85. I have owned a 43" Pioneer for the past four years as well. The Pioneer is an amazing plasma and it seems the Panny doesn't quite stack up

Did I just read that correctly? The picture quality of a 2008-model PDP is inferior to the picture quality of a 2004-model PDP?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that.
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post #1419 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzhimself View Post

It's actually quite warm still. If i switch between warm and normal (with my above settings) the difference is minimal. Might put the "Normal" values back to their defaults and apply those settings to "Warm." I'm going to turn down my green drive a few steps, as there seems to be a slight green tint to some faces.

I reverted my settings in the Normal color temp and went in and edited my Warm color temp, just dropped the red drive down 4 steps. It looks even better now. Since the blue and green drive levels were near where I had set them in the normal color temps I left them for the time being. Been watching NBC HD (Life and Law and Order), and CBS HD (Criminal Minds) and they look better than they did with my other settings.
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post #1420 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

I could easily be wrong but I find it highly unlikely the 4 year old Pio can match the brand new Panny.

Based on the criteria he was judging, I think he's right. My 6-year old Pio CRT blew away the Panny which I was calibrating right next to it, but only in some respects. It just so happens that image "pop" factor is the most noticeable. If you crank up the Panny to those kind of picture levels it fails, shows nasty artifacts and starts to look like a lousy LCD.

Once you get used to the lower Picture levels however, you can really appreciate the panel for what it is. Incredible resolution, black stability, focus and perfect geometry that the CRT could only dream of.

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post #1421 of 2470 Old 12-10-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzhimself View Post

I reverted my settings in the Normal color temp and went in and edited my Warm color temp, just dropped the red drive down 4 steps. It looks even better now. Since the blue and green drive levels were near where I had set them in the normal color temps I left them for the time being. Been watching NBC HD (Life and Law and Order), and CBS HD (Criminal Minds) and they look better than they did with my other settings.


Glad you're enjoying. I wouldn't have had any clue that the blue also needed to come down so much if I didn't have a reference (my ISF-calibrated TV sitting right next to it) simultaneously playing the same greyscale test pattern.

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post #1422 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

Did I just read that correctly? The picture quality of a 2008-model PDP is inferior to the picture quality of a 2004-model PDP?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that.

Shawn,

There is no question that the Pioneer 4360HD (actually purchased three years ago, not four) has a nicer picture. That is irrefutable. That's the cause of my concern and why I am wondering if there may be a problem with the Panny we just bought. We were by no means "blown away" by the Z85, and we have always been by the Pioneer. The best reference HD channel we have is probably Oasis (along with Discovery) and it is consistently breathtaking on the Pioneer. Not so at all on the Z85. There seems to be noise and artifacts and generally less clarity. SD on the Pioneer is far nicer than on the Panasonic (better scaling?). And yes, we are using the same cables and HD sat receiver for both TV's.
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post #1423 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

I could easily be wrong but I find it highly unlikely the 4 year old Pio can match the brand new Panny.

See my response to Shawn. My error, we bought the 4360HD three years ago (January 2006). All of this raises a concern that there may be a defect of some sort on the Z85 we bought. That seems highly unlikely to me. The guys that delivered it said they see virtually no returns on the Panasonics. For certain the PQ is simply not as good, and that's coming from two sets of eyes.
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post #1424 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Based on the criteria he was judging, I think he's right. My 6-year old Pio CRT blew away the Panny which I was calibrating right next to it, but only in some respects. It just so happens that image "pop" factor is the most noticeable. If you crank up the Panny to those kind of picture levels it fails, shows nasty artifacts and starts to look like a lousy LCD.

Once you get used to the lower Picture levels however, you can really appreciate the panel for what it is. Incredible resolution, black stability, focus and perfect geometry that the CRT could only dream of.

I think you've nailed it. I have adjusted some settings and will give it some time. We know the Pio 4360 is very good, and now we are realising just how good.
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post #1425 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrain View Post

See my response to Shawn. My error, we bought the 4360HD three years ago (January 2006). All of this raises a concern that there may be a defect of some sort on the Z85 we bought. That seems highly unlikely to me. The guys that delivered it said they see virtually no returns on the Panasonics. For certain the PQ is simply not as good, and that's coming from two sets of eyes.

You should post some side by side screenshots.

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post #1426 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

You should post some side by side screenshots.

Tough to do with the Pio now upstairs in the family room, and the Panasonic in the home theatre room in the basement where the 4360 used to be. My wife is actually even more adamant than I am over the PQ issue, so it isn't just me losing my marbles, lol. Not sure static images would help much anyway. Noise and artifacting is more prevalent with motion on the screen - or sequences that are panned (such as aerial views on Oasis HD).
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post #1427 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

You should post some side by side screenshots.

BTW, this isn't any Pio vs Panny vendetta either - just to be clear. I looked at the Panasonics HARD before buying the Pioneer and even if the Panny's are generally perceived to be a slight notch below Pioneer, they are still outstanding sets. When you factor that the new 50" Pio was nearly double what I paid for the Z85, it seems like a no-brainer. My only real concern is that I have something without defect so that I can deal with a return if need be.
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post #1428 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrain View Post

Shawn,

There is no question that the Pioneer 4360HD (actually purchased three years ago, not four) has a nicer picture. That is irrefutable. That's the cause of my concern and why I am wondering if there may be a problem with the Panny we just bought. We were by no means "blown away" by the Z85, and we have always been by the Pioneer. The best reference HD channel we have is probably Oasis (along with Discovery) and it is consistently breathtaking on the Pioneer. Not so at all on the Z85. There seems to be noise and artifacts and generally less clarity. SD on the Pioneer is far nicer than on the Panasonic (better scaling?). And yes, we are using the same cables and HD sat receiver for both TV's.

As a owner of Poineer 5070 and Panasonic 46PZ80U, let me attest your findings. There is no comparison of the picture quality between the two. Pio is in a league of its own. Though my Pio is nearly two years old and Panasonic is just couple of month old with higher resolution, Pio clearly blows the new Panasonic out of the water. There is absolutely no contest. That peobably explains why Pioneers cost that much more and still people flock to grab 'em.
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post #1429 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mpotturi View Post

As a owner of Poineer 5070 and Panasonic 46PZ80U, let me attest your findings. There is no comparison of the picture quality between the two. Pio is in a league of its own. Though my Pio is nearly two years old and Panasonic is just couple of month old with higher resolution, Pio clearly blows the new Panasonic out of the water. There is absolutely no contest. That peobably explains why Pioneers cost that much more and still people flock to grab 'em.

I feel vindicated, but not the answer I really wanted! From what you are saying, I have been somewhat spoiled and will have to lower my expectations a little bit. On the plus side, the Z85 is 7" bigger and a 50" is what I wanted in the first place (and couldn't afford the $6k or whatever the Pio 50" was three years ago). Thanks for the backup.
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post #1430 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 07:31 AM
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I just downloaded a Service Manual for my PZ85 from:
http://www.manualsparadise.com/
Not much new info though.
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post #1431 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 08:11 AM
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Hi, I'm new to the forum. I bought my tv in August, it has over a 100 hours on it. I'm looking for the best settings for watching regular tv. Cinema mode looks really dark to me, maybe that's the way its suppose to be. Are their any calibrations settings that work really well under one of the other modes? If numbers have already been posted, sorry. How do I find them with out searching through all of the pages.

Thank you very much for the help.
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post #1432 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B_S View Post

That looks like an interesting alternative, but I think if I was gonna spend ~$300 for that I'd just spend a little more and let the professional do it.

Let us know how yours turns out though.

Thats my thought.
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post #1433 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bucky4 View Post

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I bought my tv in August, it has over a 100 hours on it. I'm looking for the best settings for watching regular tv. Cinema mode looks really dark to me, maybe that's the way its suppose to be. Are their any calibrations settings that work really well under one of the other modes? If numbers have already been posted, sorry. How do I find them with out searching through all of the pages.

Thank you very much for the help.

Refer to page one.

Cinema at it's default of warm is for dark room viewing and is optimized for the cleanest possible signal like well made/mastered upressed DVD's and Bluerays. It is very accurate and has a rough peak luminance of 35 fl (footlamberts) which is what mastering bays generally get out of the CRT they use to master the movies on. The Warm temp is closets to the Greyscale D65 spec (very close) and the gamma is nearly a flat 2.2 (all cornerstones of a calibrated CRT in the mastering bays).

Toms settings in The first page are great for full HD blueray playback form HDMI. If you feel the skin tones are a touch blushy, drop his color to 38ish.

Overall Brightness of the picture is higher in Standard mode left in it's default temp of Normal and I use that for all TV viewing (P60, B50, C50, T0 seem to work well for me). The colors (according to my probe) are a bit more accurate but the gamma and luminance are overdriven on purpose (for bright rooms) and it's color temp is defaulted to Normal as much of content from TV signals can be overly warm already (at least I find) so Normal helps to compensate that to some degree without hurting other channels much. Which is why, in the manual, it calls STANDARD the setting for watching in a lit room and Cinema (accurate mode) for watching accurate content in a darkened (like a theater) room.

When I get a chance and I have experimented further I am trying to come up with a "close as you can get" set of user control only settings specifically for the PZ85U 42" for Blueray playback from HDMI.

C.

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post #1434 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 01:03 PM
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Excellent summary. IMO this really otta be a part of page one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

Refer to page one.

Cinema at it's default of warm is for dark room viewing and is optimized for the cleanest possible signal like well made/mastered upressed DVD's and Bluerays. It is very accurate and has a rough peak luminance of 35 fl (footlamberts) which is what mastering bays generally get out of the CRT they use to master the movies on. The Warm temp is closets to the Greyscale D65 spec (very close) and the gamma is nearly a flat 2.2 (all cornerstones of a calibrated CRT in the mastering bays).

Toms settings in The first page are great for full HD blueray playback form HDMI. If you feel the skin tones are a touch blushy, drop his color to 38ish.

Overall Brightness of the picture is higher in Standard mode left in it's default temp of Normal and I use that for all TV viewing (P60, B50, C50, T0 seem to work well for me). The colors (according to my probe) are a bit more accurate but the gamma and luminance are overdriven on purpose (for bright rooms) and it's color temp is defaulted to Normal as much of content from TV signals can be overly warm already (at least I find) so Normal helps to compensate that to some degree without hurting other channels much. Which is why, in the manual, it calls STANDARD the setting for watching in a lit room and Cinema (accurate mode) for watching accurate content in a darkened (like a theater) room.

When I get a chance and I have experimented further I am trying to come up with a "close as you can get" set of user control only settings specifically for the PZ85U 42" for Blueray playback from HDMI.

C.

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post #1435 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BHS View Post

Excellent summary. IMO this really otta be a part of page one.

Not sure about that. It's very generalised and my speeling is not very gud.

That because I watched See Same Street.

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post #1436 of 2470 Old 12-11-2008, 08:42 PM
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Another thing that helps is, if you or the wife must have lights on in the room, placing the lighting in the right place. I see too many people with bright table lamps shining directly on the screen. All you see is a big reflection in the panel. Get some dimmable spotlights and point them away from the TV, or wall sconces placed on the same wall as the TV so the light is BEHIND or beside it, not in front.

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post #1437 of 2470 Old 12-12-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Another thing that helps is, if you or the wife must have lights on in the room, placing the lighting in the right place. I see too many people with bright table lamps shining directly on the screen. All you see is a big reflection in the panel. Get some dimmable spotlights and point them away from the TV, or wall sconces placed on the same wall as the TV so the light is BEHIND or beside it, not in front.


Backlighting helps a lot. Earlier in this thread Elway had some posts on the benefits of backlighting that was helpful.

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post #1438 of 2470 Old 12-12-2008, 10:54 AM
 
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Backlighting helps a lot. Earlier in this thread Elway had some posts on the benefits of backlighting that was helpful.


Definitely does. Hanging a light behind the tv is great for blacks during a movie, and also allows more to the WAF.
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post #1439 of 2470 Old 12-12-2008, 02:04 PM
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Is the standard backlight setup still an 18-24" fluorescent or are there better LED options now?
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post #1440 of 2470 Old 12-12-2008, 02:10 PM
 
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Well, the ISF lights are still fluor bulbs. They tried LED's, but havent had success I dont think.
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